174 réponses à ce sujet

[Catamantaloedis]

Not really comparable to the Rachni. Regardless it's certainly better that her being a random Banshee.

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 27 mai 2012 - 01:03 .

[Bad King]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Nyxeris wrote...

Uh, how do you "fail" Samara's mission? By taking Morinth? Because if you do that, then the whole Banshee thing happens. Now, your second request should happen if Morinth was taken instead of Samara, but I'm not seeing how the third could happen, if only because I don't know how to make unloyal squadmates survive the final mission.

If you suck at seducing Morinth she ditches you before you get back to the apartment and Samara doesn't get a chance to attack her.

That dialog exchange with her is something I think they should have scaled up and utilised for the final confrontation with TIM (minus the flirting of course:P). Have a bunch of things you can say, and dialog options only made available if you've taken the right actions.

Incidentally, I'm not a huge fan of Morinth because I didn't really see where she could go, I'd genuinely be interested in hearing people's ideas on how she could have been used in ME3?

BioWare were on the right track with the emails that Morinth sent to her sisters: masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Broker_Terminal#Emails_from_Morinth_.5BNever_read_by_recipients.5D

She hears that the monastery has gone dark and heads over to try and rescue her sisters so that they can join her travelling the galaxy. Shepard has the option of either letting them go or executing them.

But then this would have been accused as being as much of a reskin job as the Rachni mission, surely?

If you have to compare it with anything you should compare it with what they did with the Wrex choice (Wreav) and Mordin's death (Padok). Far better than what we have now.

[Joe Del Toro]

Bad King wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...


But then this would have been accused as being as much of a reskin job as the Rachni mission, surely?

If you have to compare it with anything you should compare it with what they did with the Wrex choice (Wreav) and Mordin's death (Padok). Far better than what we have now.

Eh, true I guess, depends on how it's actually handled. I don't inherently dislike that idea, I'm just playing Devil's advocate

[Bad King]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Morinth should have been presented in this game murdering more innocent people, who were looking for comfort in the face of the Reaper onslaught, and Shepard should have been forced to kill her. That way Shepards stupid enough to pick a serial killer with not a single redeeming quality should feel like the amoral monsters that they are.

This would have been preferable to what we have now but I would have also liked to have seen (at least some) redeeming qualities in Morinth to prevent her from being a complete two dimensional villain (BioWare have a thing for two dimensional villains).

Modifié par Bad King, 27 mai 2012 - 01:08 .

[Jamie9]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

That dialog exchange with her is something I think they should have scaled up and utilised for the final confrontation with TIM (minus the flirting of course:P). Have a bunch of things you can say, and dialog options only made available if you've taken the right actions.

Incidentally, I'm not a huge fan of Morinth because I didn't really see where she could go, I'd genuinely be interested in hearing people's ideas on how she could have been used in ME3?

Off the top of my head: They could have had a mission on Thessia. Morinth is there and she tells you she's been "investigating" the Asari on that planet. She discovered one of the military leaders holding out against the Reapers is indoctrinated (so will probably sabotage the war effort).

You fight through banshees, husks etc. to get to the Asari military leader. She's in one of the big Asari buildings we see in the background. You fight up to her and Morinth mind melds the leader to death, revealing that this particular military leader had the latent Ardat-Yakshi gene, and that Morinth is "absorbing" as much of this as she can, her biotics becoming stronger each time: "The genetic destiny of the Asari."

The leader was not indoctrinated at all. You can kill Morinth or let her go. Morinth says she can help greatly in the War Effort; she's the most powerful biotic in the galaxy.

If you let her go, you lose lots of war assets. You don't if you kill her.

It continues her ME2 storyline, having obvious parallels, but also provides new stuff to do with her character, revealing her ultimate motivations.

[silentassassin264]

Bad King wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Morinth should have been presented in this game murdering more innocent people, who were looking for comfort in the face of the Reaper onslaught, and Shepard should have been forced to kill her. That way Shepards stupid enough to pick a serial killer with not a single redeeming quality should feel like the amoral monsters that they are.

This would have been preferable to what we have now but I would have also liked to have seen (at least some) redeeming qualities in Morinth to prevent her from being a complete two dimensional villain.

That would have been just as lame because it is still catering to paragons who want her to be a monster and killed even in other people's games.  Morinth was a person and should have been portrayed as one.  Jack was a psycho serial killer who gets rehabilitated (even if you tell her to kill Aresh and try to sway her in a different direction I might add) and there is no reason Morinth shouldn't be able to get some Shepard rubbing off on her.

[Catamantaloedis]

Bad King wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Morinth should have been presented in this game murdering more innocent people, who were looking for comfort in the face of the Reaper onslaught, and Shepard should have been forced to kill her. That way Shepards stupid enough to pick a serial killer with not a single redeeming quality should feel like the amoral monsters that they are.

This would have been preferable to what we have now but I would have also liked to have seen (at least some) redeeming qualities in Morinth to prevent her from being a complete two dimensional villain (BioWare have a thing for two dimensional villains).

There's nothing that they could do to make her a more sympathetic character. Even if she turns out to be the most loving sister In the world or something else, she's still killed possibly hundreds of people.

[Joe Del Toro]

Jamie9 wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

That dialog exchange with her is something I think they should have scaled up and utilised for the final confrontation with TIM (minus the flirting of course:P). Have a bunch of things you can say, and dialog options only made available if you've taken the right actions.

Incidentally, I'm not a huge fan of Morinth because I didn't really see where she could go, I'd genuinely be interested in hearing people's ideas on how she could have been used in ME3?

Off the top of my head: They could have had a mission on Thessia. Morinth is there and she tells you she's been "investigating" the Asari on that planet. She discovered one of the military leaders holding out against the Reapers is indoctrinated (so will probably sabotage the war effort).

You fight through banshees, husks etc. to get to the Asari military leader. She's in one of the big Asari buildings we see in the background. You fight up to her and Morinth mind melds the leader to death, revealing that this particular military leader had the latent Ardat-Yakshi gene, and that Morinth is "absorbing" as much of this as she can, her biotics becoming stronger each time: "The genetic destiny of the Asari."

The leader was not indoctrinated at all. You can kill Morinth or let her go. Morinth says she can help greatly in the War Effort; she's the most powerful biotic in the galaxy.

If you let her go, you lose lots of war assets. You don't if you kill her.

It continues her ME2 storyline, having obvious parallels, but also provides new stuff to do with her character, revealing her ultimate motivations.

In the words of Okeer, this has weight.

I like the idea of her being an Asari Mercer from Prototype

[teh DRUMPf!!]

It's just too bad that Samara's loyalty mission gives a character with interesting potential like Morinth next to no reason to recruit her. Even if she's the lesser of two evils between herself and her mother, it's just pretty reckless to try helping/trusting her, doesn't make sense to choose a random criminal over a life-long warrior on a pragmatic level either.

Disappointing character arc, but I can't blame them for not wanting to pay the VA for a squadmate who's barely a squadmate, and whom probably less than 5% of us even bother with.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Oh yeah and I just realized something - you'd have some 'splainin' to do to Garrus/Tali/EDI/Joker who were under the impression you killed her in the first place (... which was also stupid of her role in ME2).

[silentassassin264]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Catamantaloedis wrote...

Morinth should have been presented in this game murdering more innocent people, who were looking for comfort in the face of the Reaper onslaught, and Shepard should have been forced to kill her. That way Shepards stupid enough to pick a serial killer with not a single redeeming quality should feel like the amoral monsters that they are.

This would have been preferable to what we have now but I would have also liked to have seen (at least some) redeeming qualities in Morinth to prevent her from being a complete two dimensional villain (BioWare have a thing for two dimensional villains).

There's nothing that they could do to make her a more sympathetic character. Even if she turns out to be the most loving sister In the world or something else, she's still killed possibly hundreds of people.

And Shepard blew up a star system.  Get over it.  If you want her dead, kill her in your game in ME2.  

If Thane, a remorseless killer gets to go down a hero, Jack gets a chance a redemption, and none of you Morinth haters seems to take in the fact that Samara is a sociopathic serial killer who runs around killing people without any investigation whether they are actually innocent or guilty because she doesn't give a care and she gets to be treated like a hero positive war asset etc. If someone wants Morinth to be their teammate, it is none of your business.

[Xellith]

So many wasted opportunities.. The list gets longer every day...

[Jamie9]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

In the words of Okeer, this has weight.

I like the idea of her being an Asari Mercer from Prototype

Thank you.

I just feel they put out the "Genetic destiny of the Asari" complex in Morinth in ME2 and then in ME3 we just assume she was wrong. A wasted opportunity. Plus, it would have given us a chance to actually see Thessia.

Huh, I never did finish Prototype but I guess it is the same as his character yes. Good parallel you caught there.

I felt that in a lot of places BioWare lacked imagination. Don't get me wrong, ME3 was awesome in a lot of places, but some things just seemed like so much wasted potential.

[DJBare]

Jamie9 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Morinth deserves to die.  And so do you, for murdering a Justicar to save a sick serial killer.

Why not eliminate every other option apart from the most paragon then? We were given the option, it should make a difference.

Monrith would have killed Shepard if the opportunity arose, that's her role, she sees anything less than herself as inferior and just another victim to take advantage of, heck she outright tells you in her apartment, and then she goes right ahead and tries it with Shepard, if you side with her and try a romance she drains the life right out of you, she has no redeeming qualities, none, nada, you are bottom of the food chain as far as she is concerned.

Modifié par DJBare, 27 mai 2012 - 01:24 .

[Joe Del Toro]

Jamie9 wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

In the words of Okeer, this has weight.

I like the idea of her being an Asari Mercer from Prototype

Thank you.

I just feel they put out the "Genetic destiny of the Asari" complex in Morinth in ME2 and then in ME3 we just assume she was wrong. A wasted opportunity. Plus, it would have given us a chance to actually see Thessia.

Huh, I never did finish Prototype but I guess it is the same as his character yes. Good parallel you caught there.

I felt that in a lot of places BioWare lacked imagination. Don't get me wrong, ME3 was awesome in a lot of places, but some things just seemed like so much wasted potential.

I don't think I know a single person who finished the first game. Shame too, it has a pretty wicked twist ending.

[Bad King]

DJBare wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Morinth deserves to die.  And so do you, for murdering a Justicar to save a sick serial killer.

Why not eliminate every other option apart from the most paragon then? We were given the option, it should make a difference.

Monrith would have killed Shepard if the opportunity arose, that's her role, she sees anything less than herself as inferior and just another victim to take advantage of, heck she outright tells you in her apartment, and then she goes right ahead and tries it with Shepard, if you side with her and try a romance she drains the life right out of you, she has no redeeming qualities, none, nada, you are bottom of the food chain as far as she is concerned.

She did risk (or even give) her life fighting the collectors and agreed that they needed to be stopped.

[Atakuma]

No It doesn't.

[Jamie9]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

I don't think I know a single person who finished the first game. Shame too, it has a pretty wicked twist ending.

It's downfall in the market was coming out just after inFamous, which it was constantly compared with and almost everyone who played both said "get inFamous".

I could go back to Prototype at some point I guess. You think it's worth me starting it again?

[Joe Del Toro]

Jamie9 wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

I don't think I know a single person who finished the first game. Shame too, it has a pretty wicked twist ending.

It's downfall in the market was coming out just after inFamous, which it was constantly compared with and almost everyone who played both said "get inFamous".

I could go back to Prototype at some point I guess. You think it's worth me starting it again?

To be fair, not really. As good as the ending is, it's not even referenced in the second game. Speaking of, that is a ton of fun, but if you're used to RPGs the story will leave a lot to be desired. I suggest just looking up the ending to the first one, unless you really fancy playing it.

Also, uh, Morinth. You know, just so I'm not accused of derailing:D

Modifié par Joe Del Toro, 27 mai 2012 - 01:35 .

[Catamantaloedis]

And Shepard blew up a star system.  Get over it.  If you want her dead, kill her in your game in ME2.  

If Thane, a remorseless killer gets to go down a hero, Jack gets a chance a redemption, and none of you Morinth haters seems to take in the fact that Samara is a sociopathic serial killer who runs around killing people without any investigation whether they are actually innocent or guilty because she doesn't give a care and she gets to be treated like a hero positive war asset etc. If someone wants Morinth to be their teammate, it is none of your business.

All of those characters have some redeemable quality to them. 

Morinth kills hundreds of people for sexual pleasure. There is no justification for her actions. It is similar to spreading sexual diseases with full knowledge of one's infection.

[hoodaticus]

Jamie9 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Morinth deserves to die.  And so do you, for murdering a Justicar to save a sick serial killer.

Why not eliminate every other option apart from the most paragon then? We were given the option, it should make a difference.

It does make a difference.  If you save her, Morinth becomes a banshee.  A 100% renegade - such as would murder a Justicar to save a serial killer - should think that's awesome, and laugh at her.  It's a paragon who would care if she lived or died.

Modifié par hoodaticus, 27 mai 2012 - 01:39 .

[DJBare]

Bad King wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Morinth deserves to die.  And so do you, for murdering a Justicar to save a sick serial killer.

Why not eliminate every other option apart from the most paragon then? We were given the option, it should make a difference.

Monrith would have killed Shepard if the opportunity arose, that's her role, she sees anything less than herself as inferior and just another victim to take advantage of, heck she outright tells you in her apartment, and then she goes right ahead and tries it with Shepard, if you side with her and try a romance she drains the life right out of you, she has no redeeming qualities, none, nada, you are bottom of the food chain as far as she is concerned.

She did risk (or even give) her life fighting the collectors and agreed that they needed to be stopped.

Only because they were competition "stop taking my next victim!!"

[Bad King]

Jamie9 wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

That dialog exchange with her is something I think they should have scaled up and utilised for the final confrontation with TIM (minus the flirting of course:P). Have a bunch of things you can say, and dialog options only made available if you've taken the right actions.

Incidentally, I'm not a huge fan of Morinth because I didn't really see where she could go, I'd genuinely be interested in hearing people's ideas on how she could have been used in ME3?

Off the top of my head: They could have had a mission on Thessia. Morinth is there and she tells you she's been "investigating" the Asari on that planet. She discovered one of the military leaders holding out against the Reapers is indoctrinated (so will probably sabotage the war effort).

You fight through banshees, husks etc. to get to the Asari military leader. She's in one of the big Asari buildings we see in the background. You fight up to her and Morinth mind melds the leader to death, revealing that this particular military leader had the latent Ardat-Yakshi gene, and that Morinth is "absorbing" as much of this as she can, her biotics becoming stronger each time: "The genetic destiny of the Asari."

The leader was not indoctrinated at all. You can kill Morinth or let her go. Morinth says she can help greatly in the War Effort; she's the most powerful biotic in the galaxy.

If you let her go, you lose lots of war assets. You don't if you kill her.

It continues her ME2 storyline, having obvious parallels, but also provides new stuff to do with her character, revealing her ultimate motivations.

I do like this moral choice as it strongly reflects the choice we got in ME2. The main justification for saving her in ME2 was very utilitarian- save a dangerous serial killer in return for her immense biotic power.

[Jamie9]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

To be fair, not really. As good as the ending is, it's not even referenced in the second game. Speaking of, that is a ton of fun, but if you're used to RPGs the story will leave a lot to be desired. I suggest just looking up the ending to the first one, unless you really fancy playing it.

Also, uh, Morinth. You know, just so I'm not accused of derailing:D

I'll go ahead and watch a cutscene walkthrough tomorrow then... AHEM...

So we take Mercer and Morinth.

They each share an "m" and an "r".

That spells Mr. so Mr. Morinth. Therefore all the male Asari were wiped out by the Ardat Yakshi gene. And we are officially back on topic.

[Joe Del Toro]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

And Shepard blew up a star system.  Get over it.  If you want her dead, kill her in your game in ME2.  

If Thane, a remorseless killer gets to go down a hero, Jack gets a chance a redemption, and none of you Morinth haters seems to take in the fact that Samara is a sociopathic serial killer who runs around killing people without any investigation whether they are actually innocent or guilty because she doesn't give a care and she gets to be treated like a hero positive war asset etc. If someone wants Morinth to be their teammate, it is none of your business.

All of those characters have some redeemable quality to them. 

Morinth kills hundreds of people for sexual pleasure. There is no justification for her actions. It is similar to spreading sexual diseases with full knowledge of one's infection.

I wondered if this was kind of the angle they were going with her. You pretty much defined perfectly why I don't give a damn about her character.