174 réponses à ce sujet

[Bad King]

DJBare wrote...

Bad King wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Morinth deserves to die.  And so do you, for murdering a Justicar to save a sick serial killer.

Why not eliminate every other option apart from the most paragon then? We were given the option, it should make a difference.

Monrith would have killed Shepard if the opportunity arose, that's her role, she sees anything less than herself as inferior and just another victim to take advantage of, heck she outright tells you in her apartment, and then she goes right ahead and tries it with Shepard, if you side with her and try a romance she drains the life right out of you, she has no redeeming qualities, none, nada, you are bottom of the food chain as far as she is concerned.

She did risk (or even give) her life fighting the collectors and agreed that they needed to be stopped.

Only because they were competition "stop taking my next victim!!"

Interesting theory, but risking your life to save a few human colonies (in order to mate with their populations) doesn't quite add up when there's a whole galaxy out there.

Modifié par Bad King, 27 mai 2012 - 01:43 .

[Jamie9]

To answer the "not giving a damn".

I think BioWare intended to make her a somewhat sympathetic character. She didn't choose her genes, but she got locked up. She just wants freedom, but she can't control herself.

Unfortunately, they only conveyed this via Samara's dialogue, Morinth showed none of it. If they had, I think a lot more people would like her character. As it stands, the only thing she's got is power.

[Joe Del Toro]

Jamie9 wrote...

To answer the "not giving a damn".

I think BioWare intended to make her a somewhat sympathetic character. She didn't choose her genes, but she got locked up. She just wants freedom, but she can't control herself.

Unfortunately, they only conveyed this via Samara's dialogue, Morinth showed none of it. If they had, I think a lot more people would like her character. As it stands, the only thing she's got is power.

True. I always saw it as a parallel to HIV, to be honest. She's stuck with a condition that is not of her own doing, she's given a 'choice' which isn't really a choice at all, and she rebels. I don't claim to know anyone with HIV, but I imagine Bioware was attempting to go along these lines with this storyline.

The point at which they lose me is when Morinth is shown to be so good at killing people with sex that they outright claim she is as adept at it as a leopard is at ripping a gazelle apart and taking it up a tree. She is not a victim at that point, she is someone using her curse on someone else. Not to mention we learn she's sterile anyway, so 'furthering genetic destiny' is a convenient excuse.

Modifié par Joe Del Toro, 27 mai 2012 - 01:51 .

[ObserverStatus]

Bad King wrote...

When BioWare call in the voice actors to voice the DLC, there are a few things they need to do:

1). Get Natalia Cigliuti to come in and do some Morinth voicework.
2). Have Morinth take Samara's role in the Ardat Yakshi monastery mission (setting out to rescue her siblings).
3). Pretend that the Morinth banshee fiasco never happened (perhaps make that outcome occur if both Samara and Morinth survived ME2- in other words if you failed/didn't complete Samara's loyalty mission).

Make it happen BioWare.

I'm thinking that they were originally planning to let Shepard save her from getting turned into a Banshee in Priority: Omega like he saved Jack from getting turned into a phantom, but then Priority: Omega got scrapped for dlc.

[Bad King]

hoodaticus wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Morinth deserves to die.  And so do you, for murdering a Justicar to save a sick serial killer.

Why not eliminate every other option apart from the most paragon then? We were given the option, it should make a difference.

It does make a difference.  If you save her, Morinth becomes a banshee.  A 100% renegade - such as would murder a Justicar to save a serial killer - should think that's awesome, and laugh at her.  It's a paragon who would care if she lived or died.

I find it hard to accept that anyone could find a generic banshee with a different name awesome, but you're clearly the expert on renegade psychology so I won't question your conclusion.

[silentassassin264]

Catamantaloedis wrote...

And Shepard blew up a star system.  Get over it.  If you want her dead, kill her in your game in ME2.  

If Thane, a remorseless killer gets to go down a hero, Jack gets a chance a redemption, and none of you Morinth haters seems to take in the fact that Samara is a sociopathic serial killer who runs around killing people without any investigation whether they are actually innocent or guilty because she doesn't give a care and she gets to be treated like a hero positive war asset etc. If someone wants Morinth to be their teammate, it is none of your business.

All of those characters have some redeemable quality to them. 

Morinth kills hundreds of people for sexual pleasure. There is no justification for her actions. It is similar to spreading sexual diseases with full knowledge of one's infection.

What part of "If you don't like her, kill her in ME2" don't you understand?  I understand completely why someone would hate Morinth but the game gives you a choice.  You can kill her in ME2 or save her and use her as an ally.  If you choose to save her, that choice should be honored instead giving you the trollface ME3.  It stand to reason that if I choice her over Samara, I wanted to give her a second chance/felt I could change her/etc.  I should not be forced to kill her in an always fail situation like leaving Grissom Academy for Jack to get Phantomed.  

[Jamie9]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

True. I always saw it as a parallel to HIV, to be honest. She's stuck with a condition that is not of her own doing, she's given a 'choice' which isn't really a choice at all, and she rebels. I don't claim to know anyone with HIV, but I imagine Bioware was attempting to go along these lines with this storyline.

The point at which they lose me is when Morinth is shown to be so good at killing people with sex that they outright claim she is as adept at it as a leopard is at ripping a gazelle apart and taking it up a tree. She is not a victim at that point, she is someone using her curse on someone else. Not to mention we learn she's sterile anyway, so 'furthering genetic destiny' is a convenient excuse.

I agree with all those points. She was never shown struggling with herself. She never showed any remorse at all. She is the evilest character in the Mass Effect universe. There is nobody else I can think of that has NO reason for what they are doing.

TIM, Saren etc. all thought they were doing the right thing so Morinth is even eviler than them. It was a case of bad execution, fortunately one of the only ones I can really think of in ME2. I generally loved the suicide squad - the dirty dozen.

[Bad King]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

People complain about the Rachni decision not mattering, yet they want to do the same thing with Morinth

And what we have now is better? If I had to choose between the rachni mission we got in ME3 and a generic ravager named "Rachni Queen" you bet I'd choose the former.

Modifié par Bad King, 27 mai 2012 - 01:57 .

[Joe Del Toro]

Jamie9 wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

True. I always saw it as a parallel to HIV, to be honest. She's stuck with a condition that is not of her own doing, she's given a 'choice' which isn't really a choice at all, and she rebels. I don't claim to know anyone with HIV, but I imagine Bioware was attempting to go along these lines with this storyline.

The point at which they lose me is when Morinth is shown to be so good at killing people with sex that they outright claim she is as adept at it as a leopard is at ripping a gazelle apart and taking it up a tree. She is not a victim at that point, she is someone using her curse on someone else. Not to mention we learn she's sterile anyway, so 'furthering genetic destiny' is a convenient excuse.

I agree with all those points. She was never shown struggling with herself. She never showed any remorse at all. She is the evilest character in the Mass Effect universe. There is nobody else I can think of that has NO reason for what they are doing.

TIM, Saren etc. all thought they were doing the right thing so Morinth is even eviler than them. It was a case of bad execution, fortunately one of the only ones I can really think of in ME2. I generally loved the suicide squad - the dirty dozen.

Hell, as bad as the ending is, even that shows the Reapers to have been thinking they were doing the right thing. Morinth is technically more evil than the Reapers.

[Catamantaloedis]

What part of "If you don't like her, kill her in ME2" don't you understand?  I understand completely why someone would hate Morinth but the game gives you a choice.  You can kill her in ME2 or save her and use her as an ally.  If you choose to save her, that choice should be honored instead giving you the trollface ME3.  It stand to reason that if I choice her over Samara, I wanted to give her a second chance/felt I could change her/etc.  I should not be forced to kill her in an always fail situation like leaving Grissom Academy for Jack to get Phantomed.  

I don't think Morinth should have been turned into a banshee, and I've already stated that so I hope your response was aimed at me accidentally. 

I already said that Morinth should have been in the game as herself and should have been shown killing more people because she is addicted to it and it is the motivation for all of her actions. Your Shepard should then be allowed to kill her, or continue to let her ravage the galaxy as a serial killer,  perpetuating the amorality of your Shepard.

No matter what, people should continue dying as a result of Morinth being free, but those senseless, avoidable deaths should be on your Shepard's conscience.

Modifié par Catamantaloedis, 27 mai 2012 - 02:03 .

[Zulmoka531]

Many minor characters or less popular ones were badly handled in ME3. Hell even popular ones were handled badly (Hello Emily Wong and Kal'Reeger).

[Jamie9]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

Hell, as bad as the ending is, even that shows the Reapers to have been thinking they were doing the right thing. Morinth is technically more evil than the Reapers.

I'll admit: that gave me goosebumps. Because it's true.

Oooh, new theory. Morinth is the ultimate antagonist, and Shepard has been in a battle of wills vs. Morinth ever since the loyalty mission. He's still on Omega.

(I jest obviously, just so no-one attacks me)

Anyway, I'm off, it's 3 AM in the U.K.

Nice talking with you.

[Bad King]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Bad King wrote...

The Mad Hanar wrote...

People complain about the Rachni decision not mattering, yet they want to do the same thing with Morinth

And what we have now is better? If I had to choose between the rachni mission we got in ME3 and a generic ravager named "Rachni Queen" you bet I'd choose the former.

You're suprised that a character can be caught by the Reapers? Jack can be caught by Cerberus, and the only thing that comes out of that is a generic Phantom.

Morinth was caught by the reapers because BioWare couldn't be bothered hiring her VA. It's as simple as that. At least with Jack you have the option of meeting her and even if you don't you hear a recording of her being implanted and Shepard actually acknowledges that the generic phantom was Jack.

[Joe Del Toro]

Jamie9 wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

Hell, as bad as the ending is, even that shows the Reapers to have been thinking they were doing the right thing. Morinth is technically more evil than the Reapers.

I'll admit: that gave me goosebumps. Because it's true.

Oooh, new theory. Morinth is the ultimate antagonist, and Shepard has been in a battle of wills vs. Morinth ever since the loyalty mission. He's still on Omega.

(I jest obviously, just so no-one attacks me)

Anyway, I'm off, it's 3 AM in the U.K.

Nice talking with you.

Holy sh*t it IS 3am! Goodnight!

[ObserverStatus]

hoodaticus wrote...

Morinth deserves to die.  And so do you, for murdering a Justicar to save a sick serial killer.

All right that's it.  I'm getting tired of posting this, but you asked for it.

bobobo878 wrote...
Morinth and Samara are bother murderers, but at least Morinth is honest with herself about what she does. Morinth may not have a religious code to justify killing Nef, but that does not make this act any more monsterous than the murders Samara commits. If Shepard hadn't come to her rescue, Samara would have murdered that cop on Illium just for doing her job.

Samara said she saw him kill an unarmed civilian, but she didn't bother to stop and ask him why she killed that person. Being a Spectre, Nihilus could have had a very good reason for killing that person. The person Nihlus killed could have been a spy, who would have put people in danger with the information he would have sent if Nihlus had killed him later. Or, he could have been a terrorist, bearing a concealed weapon of mass destruction that Samara did not see. But Samara herself said that she did not know why Nihlus killed him. 

When Samara said that she didn't need to know why she was helping you eradicate the collectors, saying "If I have to kill a man, do I need to know he's a loving father?" it revealed a deeply disturbing facet of her character. Samara simply does not care to know if what she does is wrong. After she discovered that her daughters were ardat-yakshi she ceased to trust in her own judgement, and being too afraid to make her own choices anymore, she lets her code think for her. For all she knew, Nihlus could have just saved more lives than she ever will, but that doesn't matter to her because allowing her code to think for her saves her from having to make hard choices.

I'm not saying it's okay for Morinth to commit serial murder against hipsters on Omega, but Samara is a trigger happy zealot meddling in galactic security affairs that she simply does not care to understand. At least when Morinth murders in cold blood, she doesn't put galactic security at risk.

 

[Jamie9]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

Holy sh*t it IS 3am! Goodnight!

Ha ha. You're UK too

My sleeping patterns are just terrible. Anyway, I'm derailing the thread. I apologise to all who read this.

Adendum: Morinth is the only character in ME2 to have one mission dedicated to them.

Everyone else has their recruitment and loyalty missions. Even Miranda and Jacob are given focus in the first two missions. So we should have seen this coming.

[Bad King]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

Aaaaand now it's another BioWare is lazy and/or cheap argument. Not doing it.

Your choice, but don't come on this thread complaining about my ideas if you aren't willing to have a proper discussion.

[silentassassin264]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

People complain about the Rachni decision not mattering, yet they want to do the same thing with Morinth

The rachni decision was worse than not mattering, it was spiting the renegade decision making it completely pointless.  I chose to kill the rachni queen so they could never threaten the galaxy again.  That means I should not have to fight a single Ravager in ME3 in my save that killed the Rachni queen.  Instead I have to fight a bunch of Ravagers negating the whole point of my decision AND I can get no EMS out of it.  A paragon has to deal with the consequences of their actions fighting Ravagers throughout the game but they can at least get Rachni workers out of it.  

Having Morinth go to save her sisters and take them on a tour of the galaxy instead of Samara would makes sense and not spite the paragon decision because it would not end up the same as Samara wanted Falere to stay at the Sanctuary and having Morinth take them away (well just Falere since Rila dies) would have you knowing full well Morinth could have Falere go murdering with her...or Falere could turn into a morality charm and keep Morinth in check.  You never know.

[silentassassin264]

bobobo878 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

Morinth deserves to die.  And so do you, for murdering a Justicar to save a sick serial killer.

All right that's it.  I'm getting tired of posting this, but you asked for it.

bobobo878 wrote...
Morinth and Samara are bother murderers, but at least Morinth is honest with herself about what she does. Morinth may not have a religious code to justify killing Nef, but that does not make this act any more monsterous than the murders Samara commits. If Shepard hadn't come to her rescue, Samara would have murdered that cop on Illium just for doing her job.

Samara said she saw him kill an unarmed civilian, but she didn't bother to stop and ask him why she killed that person. Being a Spectre, Nihilus could have had a very good reason for killing that person. The person Nihlus killed could have been a spy, who would have put people in danger with the information he would have sent if Nihlus had killed him later. Or, he could have been a terrorist, bearing a concealed weapon of mass destruction that Samara did not see. But Samara herself said that she did not know why Nihlus killed him. 

When Samara said that she didn't need to know why she was helping you eradicate the collectors, saying "If I have to kill a man, do I need to know he's a loving father?" it revealed a deeply disturbing facet of her character. Samara simply does not care to know if what she does is wrong. After she discovered that her daughters were ardat-yakshi she ceased to trust in her own judgement, and being too afraid to make her own choices anymore, she lets her code think for her. For all she knew, Nihlus could have just saved more lives than she ever will, but that doesn't matter to her because allowing her code to think for her saves her from having to make hard choices.

I'm not saying it's okay for Morinth to commit serial murder against hipsters on Omega, but Samara is a trigger happy zealot meddling in galactic security affairs that she simply does not care to understand. At least when Morinth murders in cold blood, she doesn't put galactic security at risk.

 

I thought I was the only one who wasn't blind to Samara's insanity.

http://social.biowar...ndex/12086049/2 

There is hope for this cycle.

[Jamie9]

silentassassin264 wrote...

The rachni decision was worse than not mattering, it was spiting the renegade decision making it completely pointless.  I chose to kill the rachni queen so they could never threaten the galaxy again.  That means I should not have to fight a single Ravager in ME3 in my save that killed the Rachni queen.  Instead I have to fight a bunch of Ravagers negating the whole point of my decision AND I can get no EMS out of it.  A paragon has to deal with the consequences of their actions fighting Ravagers throughout the game but they can at least get Rachni workers out of it.  

Having Morinth go to save her sisters and take them on a tour of the galaxy instead of Samara would makes sense and not spite the paragon decision because it would not end up the same as Samara wanted Falere to stay at the Sanctuary and having Morinth take them away (well just Falere since Rila dies) would have you knowing full well Morinth could have Falere go murdering with her...or Falere could turn into a morality charm and keep Morinth in check.  You never know.

Oh definitely. The Rachni decision was much worse. Mainly because we were promised so much stuff and hyped up so much by the devs. "The Rachni will play a huge role, even just in the final battle of ME3."

Sigh. I *really* hope they make DLC for things like this instead of random crap that nobody cares about. (Read: less important, I'm sure many people like that stuff)