24 réponses à ce sujet

[Irthir]

 http://4mm.kp.sl.pt

Great article about Dragon Age 2. It sums up what most of us thinks about DA2.

[BrookerT]

Thats . . . surprisingly balanced. Quite a good article, and that comment by Grimer, (bottom of page) also sums it up quite nicely. Minus the Fenris part, don't diss Fenris

[Realmzmaster]

A nice retrospective view that sums up my feelings for DA2. It talks about the good and the bad. It is balanced and the author tells you why he liked the game and how it drew him in. DA2 was flawed but I have a good time playing it.

[Reznore57]

I always felt companions in DA2 were a really strong point.
Of course the game had big flaws but for me at least , it has a lot of charm despite it.
The Voice acting was pretty great and i felt the banters had a better flow than DA0 ones.
I also like the fact that all companions were all a bit crazy in their own way.

[ScotGaymer]

Yeh I agreed with this.

It is a tolerable game. Somewhat fun to play if not as deep and involving as DAO.

I mean I can still enjoy playing it and its predecessor without too much trouble; Mass Effect on the other hand I still can't face even touching.

[ItsTheTruth]

By far the worst game I have ever played until the end (and only because it was the sequel to a masterpiece).

But at least 18 months later, game "critics" can start to criticize the game.

[Atakuma]

Very good article. The characters really were the only thing that kept me going in DA2. If it wasn't for them and a few bright spots in the narrative, I wouldn't have even bothered to finish it.

[Uccio]

The ending comment "didn´t want to mess up your life.." was Hawke to Aveline, not the other way around.

I know, its useless comment but I had to say it.

[Wozearly]

ItsTheTruth wrote...

By far the worst game I have ever played until the end (and only because it was the sequel to a masterpiece).

But at least 18 months later, game "critics" can start to criticize the game.

Possibly a bit harsh.

DA2 did struggle from being a relatively poor (IMO) sequel to an absolute classic. I felt hooked into DA:O after the first five minutes, and as soon as I'd finished the game I created another character for a second playthrough.

I hardly ever do that immediately with any game - indeed, the only games I've ever done that with have been by Bioware. But that was DA:O, BG2, KOTOR and the first Mass Effect. The more recent games haven't had that same pull when it comes to wanting to see how it all ends, but also not wanting the damn thing to end at all.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I have replayed DA2 several times. It is certainly not a bad game. However, this article does not highlight what I think was wrong with DA2.

The more I played it, the more it became obvious that your choices absolutely didn't matter. The game played out the same, no matter what you had chosen. The adventure did not "shape itself around every decision you make" in "an ever-changing world". I never felt the "rise to power" was the result of gathering "the deadliest of allies". You can find these quotes in the ads for the game.

It feels like the game is a collection of points of interests and boss fights which the map connects and which you have to visit all. No matter what. And Hawke just reacted to the events around them and was not able to control anything. Even siding with the mages or templars didn't do much to how the story played out.

In Legacy I almost thought that there was a true branch in the story. But no, this time too the story went right back on track after branching out and you fought the same end boss.

Also, characters not recognizing you being a mage, even though you just casted a fire ball, your wore a robe and carried a staff, is irritating. Every mage is hunted down, even outside the city, but Hawke and his/her mage companions can do their thing without repercussions. Even merchants that sell you blood mage gear in the open do not alert Meredith.

To me the reused areas made me feel in a state of constant déjà vu: Didn't I do this quest before? Why is this entrance closed this time? But I think BW won't make that mistake again. They have already stated that.

The problem with the waves of foes was not only that it was unbelievable, it was hurting strategic gameplay. That was worsened by characters jumping around the battlefield and not having a strategic view. Unlike DA:O for the PC, the AI rules were hard to configure and hard to switch off temporarily.

I also think that DA2 has taken too much from ME2, like e-mails to the Normandy (now the Hawke Estate), the dialogue wheel, the SF-style user interface, iconic armor for the henchmen, simplified game mechanics, no strategic view. It is strange that the doctors claimed that they would take the best from DA:O and make that a mission statement for the devs, when in fact they meant ME2 and instead everything that people liked from DA:O was taken out. And we hear that DA3 will be the best of DA:O and DA2. I do not believe that anymore. Besides more responsive combat there wasn't much to love in DA2.

I think it is time for DA3 to get its own identity back and not make it an ME with swords.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 31 mai 2012 - 01:18 .

[Merilsell]

I played it once and never again.

In fact, in between DA:O and Mass Effect, I have somehow forgotten that this game even exists.

Is this a bad sign for a game? :3

[Uccio]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I have replayed DA2 several times. It is certainly not a bad game. However, this article does not highlight what I think was wrong with DA2.

The more I played it, the more it became obvious that your choices absolutely didn't matter. The game played out the same, no matter what you had chosen. The adventure did not "shape itself around every decision you make" in "an ever-changing world". I never felt the "rise to power" was the result of gathering "the deadliest of allies". You can find these quotes in the ads for the game.

It feels like the game is a collection of points of interests and boss fights which the map connects and which you have to visit all. No matter what. And Hawke just reacted to the events around them and was not able to control anything. Even siding with the mages or templars didn't do much to how the story played out.

In Legacy I almost thought that there was a true branch in the story. But no, this time too the story went right back on track after branching out and you fought the same end boss.

Also, characters not recognizing you being a mage, even though you just casted a fire ball, your wore a robe and carried a staff, is irritating. Every mage is hunted down, even outside the city, but Hawke and his/her mage companions can do their thing without repercussions. Even merchants that sell you blood mage gear in the open do not alert Meredith.

To me the reused areas made me feel in a state of constant déjà vu: Didn't I do this quest before? Why is this entrance closed this time? But I think BW won't make that mistake again. They have already stated that.

The problem with the waves of foes was not only that it was unbelievable, it was hurting strategic gameplay. That was worsened by characters jumping around the battlefield and not having a strategic view. Unlike DA:O for the PC, the AI rules were hard to configure and hard to switch off temporarily.

I also think that DA2 has taken too much from ME2, like e-mails to the Normandy (now the Hawke Estate), the dialogue wheel, the SF-style user interface, iconic armor for the henchmen, simplified game mechanics, no strategic view. It is strange that the doctors claimed that they would take the best from DA:O and make that a mission statement for the devs, when in fact they meant ME2 and instead everything that people liked from DA:O was taken out. And we hear that DA3 will be the best of DA:O and DA2. I do not believe that anymore. Besides more responsive combat there wasn't much to love in DA2.

I think it is time for DA3 to get its own identity back and not make it an ME with swords.

x 2, agreed.

[Paul E Dangerously]

I liked DA2 despite the flaws - not as well as Origins, granted - but it wasn't awful. Most of my issues were with the writing (Hello, Anders) and that ending stretch than the mechanics for the most part. I have to think that wasn't the original intent for the ending and that we might have gotten a better third act if not for it being pushed out so quickly.

My biggest gripes mechanically were with the reused levels and lack of companion inventories, though not necessarily because I couldn't play dressup with them - but that all the junk I was carrying around I was the only one that could use 80% of it.

What did I like about DA2? The melee combat was more responsive, where Origins felt pretty lacking in that department. The voiced character was a welcome addition, and though I know a lot of people didn't care for that, at least Hawke didn't stand around slackjawed during events like the Warden did in DAO.

As far as "how could you get away with magic and nobody notices" Origins didn't settle that well, either. You could make every mage in the party a blood mage (even Wynne!) and nobody would bat an eyelash.

[bleetman]

Merilsell wrote...

I played it once and never again.

In fact, in between DA:O and Mass Effect, I have somehow forgotten that this game even exists.

Clearly.

Modifié par bleetman, 31 mai 2012 - 07:27 .

[AkiKishi]

bleetman wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

I played it once and never again.

In fact, in between DA:O and Mass Effect, I have somehow forgotten that this game even exists.

Clearly.

While I would not go that far it did fail to leave any strong impression.

Sopa de Gato wrote...
As far as "how could you get away with magic and nobody notices" Origins didn't settle that well, either. You could make every mage in the party a blood mage (even Wynne!) and nobody would bat an eyelash.

Being a Warden or with the Warden covered it.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 31 mai 2012 - 08:30 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

In addition to what I wrote before, I also think that the story suffered by the way decisions were made. Not only are choices cosmetic, these make Hawke react on events, rather than be proactive. If the game is forced to keep the story railroaded, no matter what decisions you make, then it needs to revert to rationalizations. That is emphasized when the game keeps track of what choices you have made before to change the way Hawke delivers his or her lines. All of that makes the dialogues surreal and hurts the great storytelling for which BW is known for.

Another thing that I disliked is that Hawke can only have conversations with the henchmen when he or she is invited by them. There are two notable exceptions, Sebastian and Elthina, who act more in accordance to the way conversations were handled in DA:O. If there was some event in the main story then often the grand cleric had something to say about it. You didn't have to be invited. Just talk to her after such events. She even had some background information about your family. These characters, whether you like them or not, interacted and felt more like ones you encountered in DA:O. No doubt they got the extra attention because they were handled by a DLC team. These characters were, compared to most others, portrayed great. However, one was unable to really handle Sebastian's royalty situation other than talk about it and one was never able to warn Elthina about the suspicious behavior of Anders.

The romances were limited in comparison to the ones in DA:O. At the end of the game Isabela never moved in with you, but there wasn't an alternative for that either. Let me see that ship. In the end Merrill only had a one liner about Sandal like a Zaeed who ran out of lines. I think I rather have something like Leliana's "I thought you would never ask".

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 31 mai 2012 - 10:24 .

[Swordfishtrombone]

Pretty good review. I think that pretty much ALL of the most serious issues in the game were due to it's over-rushed development schedule. They were given so little time that they had to cut corners; with that time there was no chance at all that the game could have lived up to it's predecessor.

However, like the author of the review, I too liked the game - it's a good game, though not the great game we were expecting after DA:O.

The party banter and the character writing pretty much saved the day. I addressed some of the issues for myself with mods - one to replace the custom armors of companions with armor slots so I can equip them just like in DA:O, and one to increase the value of junk items to balance things out (so I could actuallly get decent equipment for all my companions). This made the game a little better for me - more customization, and the junk isn't quite as useless anymore.

[ScotGaymer]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...
As far as "how could you get away with magic and nobody notices" Origins didn't settle that well, either. You could make every mage in the party a blood mage (even Wynne!) and nobody would bat an eyelash.

Being a Warden or with the Warden covered it.

Yup.

That's right.

People did comment from time to time on Blood Magic being employed but it was nicely handwaved away by The Warden being part of an organisation that was outside of the normal structures of Ferelden.

Hawke had no such handwaving.

[AngryFrozenWater]

FitScotGaymer wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

As far as "how could you get away with magic and nobody notices" Origins didn't settle that well, either. You could make every mage in the party a blood mage (even Wynne!) and nobody would bat an eyelash.

Being a Warden or with the Warden covered it.

Yup.

That's right.

People did comment from time to time on Blood Magic being employed but it was nicely handwaved away by The Warden being part of an organisation that was outside of the normal structures of Ferelden.

Hawke had no such handwaving.

Yes and no. In DA:O there was that handwaving, but Wynne kept complaining, even if she became a blood mage or got possessed by a good spirit.

[Dakota Strider]

Many good critiques in this thread. Particulary @AngryFrozenWater Without going into detail, I think it can be summed up by this. DAO was a great game, probably a 9.5 out of 10. DA2 was a good, a 7.5 out of 10. Many companies would be happy to make a game of DA2 quality. But when customers have grown accustomed to Excellence from a company, they get a bit upset when they are given Above Average, for the same price.

[Sacred_Fantasy]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

In addition to what I wrote before, I also think that the story suffered by the way decisions were made. Not only are choices cosmetic, these make Hawke react on events, rather than be proactive. If the game is forced to keep the story railroaded, no matter what decisions you make, then it needs to revert to rationalizations. That is emphasized when the game keeps track of what choices you have made before to change the way Hawke delivers his or her lines. All of that makes the dialogues surreal and hurts the great storytelling for which BW is known for.

BioWare address that issue in "hypothetical" DA 3 during the last PAX. They would add more character agency and player agency - which is a good sign. I only fear their storytelling linearity could jeopardize this.  

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Another thing that I disliked is that Hawke can only have conversations with the henchmen when he or she is invited by them. There are two notable exceptions, Sebastian and Elthina, who act more in accordance to the way conversations were handled in DA:O. If there was some event in the main story then often the grand cleric had something to say about it. You didn't have to be invited. Just talk to her after such events. She even had some background information about your family. These characters, whether you like them or not, interacted and felt more like ones you encountered in DA:O. No doubt they got the extra attention because they were handled by a DLC team. These characters were, compared to most others, portrayed great. However, one was unable to really handle Sebastian's royalty situation other than talk about it and one was never able to warn Elthina about the suspicious behavior of Anders.

Yup. I hate this very much in ME 2 and I still hate it in DA 2. I couldn't romance Miranda ( Can't remember the correct spelling ) Lawson because she keep talking, "We'll talk later".. Guess what? That later ended up with romance with Tali instead - which was untentionally. .  In DA 2, the main dialogue with companions are spread out too thin - which hardly build any emotional connection at all, and they only talk about their quest - which are hardly personal at all since the quest concern others people or fixing a mirror. Most of expository dialogues are lumped together in party banter which is fine except that I used fast travel a lot which mean I mostly bypass any route which suppose to trigger party banter. Not intent to walk all the way from Lowtown to Hightown to the  Gallow etc just to trigger the party banter on my route to Sundermount.

Anyway, BioWare also address this issue at last Pax. There would be hypothetical  "fireside chat" where you can chat as much as you want and even hug your companions. I love this idea. 

AngryFrozenWater wrote...


The romances were limited in comparison to the ones in DA:O. At the end of the game Isabela never moved in with you, but there wasn't an alternative for that either. Let me see that ship. In the end Merrill only had a one liner about Sandal like a Zaeed who ran out of lines. I think I rather have something like Leliana's "I thought you would never ask".

I skip romance. My friendship/rivalry always stays at 5 to 10 points I thinks. I had to use cheat codes to trigger companion's personal quest. Still I purposely avoid the heart icon  because Hawke and the co are neither love or hate each other. There is no personal emotional connection whatsover. But then again, I never view Hawke as my character but BioWare's Hawke. Therefore I guess it's fair I play that way. Maintaining the line between me and Hawke and by doing so, the romance/friendship/rivalry become useless option for me. Not sure how BioWare will handle the companions dialogues this time. But DA 3's hypothetical "fireside chats" and companions hugging should be the right step to bringing the companions closer to me, I guess. I just hope it's become a reality tho.  

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 31 mai 2012 - 03:32 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Nah. I am a fan of romances and rarely skip them. I definitely think they should stay, but the interaction should be improved. Talking to them only when being invited is already unnatural for normal characters, let alone for LIs.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 01 juin 2012 - 02:26 .

[matthewmi]

I just replayed Origins and Awakening and started back in DA 2 last night. DA2 isn't a bad game at all, I actually like alot of the combat mechanics better. Being a mage in DAO at times felt weak, the staff animations made a big difference and while waiting on a cooldown you at least can hit some buttons. The big negative to me was the reused environments they just got old. The other negative was the wave battle mechanics after a while it gets annoying. That being said it's still a great game and having a lead character with full voice is a positive, my Warden standing around silent all the time in DAO was odd.