161 réponses à ce sujet

[SomeBug]

Why does this matter?

[Mobius-Silent]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Error on my part. I thought the Presidium was the base of the Citadel tower, which is what I meant in my post.

If the tower (in the middle) is ~1km long the base is _very_ small, less than 100m across which is about how big the final "arena" is

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 30 mai 2012 - 04:19 .

[Mobius-Silent]

SomeBug wrote...

Why does this matter?

Because some of the "problems" people have with the end is:

"Why was there a console capable of yielding control of the reapers to an organic on the Citadel"

and

"Why are you shooting a conduit on the Citadel to start off the Crucibles blast wave"

If the middle bit unfolded from the Crucible this all makes more sense

[Favourite store on the CitadeI]

Nice post, but should it REALLY have to take this much examining to come to the conclusion that Shepard was not on the Citadel? C'mon BioWare...

[Grimwick]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

I disagree completely on the grounds that the reapers would have never had a mysterious elevator that led specifically to the Crucible.

This is not what is currently being discussed

"Hello! This thread introduced the idea that Shepard was on or on part of the Crucible and not on the Citadel. 

I believe that decision chamber is actually an additional component of the Crucible that attached to the Citadel. The following provides evidence to my idea"

Ummm... Seems relevant to me.

Modifié par Grimwick, 30 mai 2012 - 04:29 .

[Luigitornado]

There is indeed "speculation everywhere."

[EpyonX3]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Ok here is _MY_ suggestion of what is what (this is different to the OP I'm hoping we can eventually agree)

All _my_ images in this thread alude to what is below.

Red: Crucible
Purple: Unfolds from the Crucible "nubbin" (AKA "PartB")  and attaches to the Citadel
Green: Citadel (The base of the citadel tower)

I can agree with this. Part B has to go somewhere.

[Mobius-Silent]

Grimwick wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

I disagree completely on the grounds that the reapers would have never had a mysterious elevator that led specifically to the Crucible.

This is not what is currently being discussed

"Hello! This thread introduced the idea that Shepard was on or on part of the Crucible and not on the Citadel. 

[color=rgb(170, 170, 170)">I believe that decision chamber is actually an additional component of the Crucible that attached to the Citadel. The following provides evidence to my ].[/color] "

Ummm... Seems relevant to me.

That is why I said "currently" The OP originally suggested that the "nubbin" in the end of the Crucible was big enough to encompas the whole decision area, that is incorrect. I illustrated earlier in the thread by showing that the "lift of light" came up onto the rim of the decision area. (Hence what you said had already been illustrated as correct, the lift goes from Citadel-part to citadel-part directly above, as expected)

What is new and interesting is that the thin-walkways, prongs and the control/destroy consoles _could_ unfold from the "nubbin" on the end of the Crucible. Hence the discussion progressed to that idea

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 30 mai 2012 - 04:38 .

[Grimwick]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

I disagree completely on the grounds that the reapers would have never had a mysterious elevator that led specifically to the Crucible.

This is not what is currently being discussed

"Hello! This thread introduced the idea that Shepard was on or on part of the Crucible and not on the Citadel. 

[color=rgb(170, 170, 170)">I believe that decision chamber is actually an additional component of the Crucible that attached to the Citadel. The following provides evidence to my ].[/color] "

Ummm... Seems relevant to me.

That is why I said "currently" The OP originally suggested that the "nubbin" in the end of the Crucible was big enough to encompas the whole decision area, that is incorrect. I illustrated earlier in the thread by showing that the "lift of light" came up onto the rim of the decision area. (Hence what you said had already been illustrated as correct, the lift goes from Citadel-part to citadel-part directly above, as expected)

What is new and interesting is that the thin-walkways, prongs and the control/destroy consoles _could_ unfold from the "nubbin" on the end of the Crucible.

Ah, missed you saying that.

Surely, if the consoles are only extensions then the original idea of  actually being on the Crucible is wrong? I mean, it's a fairly interesting idea that the consoles came from the Crucible but it doesn't really have much of an impact on any of the events.

[Captain_Brian]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Ok here is _MY_ suggestion of what is what (this is different to the OP I'm hoping we can eventually agree)

All _my_ images in this thread alude to what is below.

Red: Crucible
Purple: Unfolds from the Crucible "nubbin" (AKA "PartB")  and attaches to the Citadel
Green: Citadel (The base of the citadel tower)

I can agree with this. Part B has to go somewhere.

This seems the most logical, however I think you guys would be better off spending your time figuring out the logic of witch detection:


Witches burn, and what else burns?

More witches!  *Slaps*

Wood! 

Yes, and wood floats. What else floats?

... A duck?

Yes! So if this woman weighs as much as a duck, than she is...

... A witch!



 I fully expect screenshots and colored diagrams!

Modifié par Captain_Brian, 30 mai 2012 - 04:41 .

[EpyonX3]

Grimwick wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

I disagree completely on the grounds that the reapers would have never had a mysterious elevator that led specifically to the Crucible.

This is not what is currently being discussed

"Hello! This thread introduced the idea that Shepard was on or on part of the Crucible and not on the Citadel. 

[color=rgb(170, 170, 170)">I believe that decision chamber is actually an additional component of the Crucible that attached to the Citadel. The following provides evidence to my ].[/color] "

Ummm... Seems relevant to me.

That is why I said "currently" The OP originally suggested that the "nubbin" in the end of the Crucible was big enough to encompas the whole decision area, that is incorrect. I illustrated earlier in the thread by showing that the "lift of light" came up onto the rim of the decision area. (Hence what you said had already been illustrated as correct, the lift goes from Citadel-part to citadel-part directly above, as expected)

What is new and interesting is that the thin-walkways, prongs and the control/destroy consoles _could_ unfold from the "nubbin" on the end of the Crucible.

Ah, missed you saying that.

Surely, if the consoles are only extensions then the original idea of  actually being on the Crucible is wrong? I mean, it's a fairly interesting idea that the consoles came from the Crucible but it doesn't really have much of an impact on any of the events.

Yes and no. Yes it's possible that Shepard is on the Citadel, however, he technically makes his decisions (Control/Destroy) on the crucible itself.

No it doesn't impact the event, but it does impact the understanding of what happened. Like how is it that know one noticed or studied these onjects that could control reapers or destroy them?

And if they were built into the citadel, why did the reapers build the two things that could stop them into their own trap?

[Ryuukishi]

I think the fact that this is even an argument illustrates a significant failure on the part of BioWare's designers. A reasonably observant player should not be unclear about where the climax of the game actually takes place. Seems like pretty basic information, and it's the job of the level designers to convey that clearly.

[Mobius-Silent]

Grimwick wrote...

Surely, if the consoles are only extensions then the original idea of  actually being on the Crucible is wrong? I mean, it's a fairly interesting idea that the consoles came from the Crucible but it doesn't really have much of an impact on any of the events.

Yes, we are never "on" the Crucible, however a _lot_ of people don't like the "controls" for the Crucible seemingly having been part of the Citadel for billions of years. I previously though that they unfolded from the citadel (explaining what they were never seen, much like the center hole opened up by the vertical plates retracting) However the idea that they unfolded from the Crucible is much more satisfying: 

• Explains the architectural differences (Thin/shiny vs matte and thick)
• Explains the ease of use
• Explains  the haphazard placement of cables
• Makes the ends feel slightly less dictated by the Starbrat
• Explains why no-one saw it before (The area was flat previously)

[EpyonX3]

Captain_Brian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Ok here is _MY_ suggestion of what is what (this is different to the OP I'm hoping we can eventually agree)

All _my_ images in this thread alude to what is below.

Red: Crucible
Purple: Unfolds from the Crucible "nubbin" (AKA "PartB")  and attaches to the Citadel
Green: Citadel (The base of the citadel tower)

I can agree with this. Part B has to go somewhere.

This seems the most logical, however I think you guys would be better off spending your time figuring out the logic of witch detection:


Witches burn, and what else burns?

More witches!  *Slaps*

Wood! 

Yes, and wood floats. What else floats?

... A duck?

Yes! So if this woman weighs as much as a duck, than she is...

... A witch!



 I fully expect screenshots and colored diagrams!

What if someone is acting like a Silly Goose?

Are they witches too?

[Mobius-Silent]

Ryuukishi wrote...

I think the fact that this is even an argument illustrates a significant failure on the part of BioWare's designers. A reasonably observant player should not be unclear about where the climax of the game actually takes place. Seems like pretty basic information, and it's the job of the level designers to convey that clearly.

I agree, something showing the nubbin/partB unfolding whould have been _very_ welcome. Also an orbit of the Citadel would have made it a lot more obvious what was going on.

[Grimwick]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Grimwick wrote...

Surely, if the consoles are only extensions then the original idea of  actually being on the Crucible is wrong? I mean, it's a fairly interesting idea that the consoles came from the Crucible but it doesn't really have much of an impact on any of the events.

Yes, we are never "on" the Crucible, however a _lot_ of people don't like the "controls" for the Crucible seemingly having been part of the Citadel for billions of years. I previously though that they unfolded from the citadel (explaining what they were never seen, much like the center hole opened up by the vertical plates retracting) However the idea that they unfolded from the Crucible is much more satisfying: 

• Explains the architectural differences (Thin/shiny vs matte and thick)
• Explains the ease of use
• Explains  the haphazard placement of cables
• Makes the ends feel slightly less dictated by the Starbrat
• Explains why no-one saw it before (The area was flat previously)

[*]Still feels pretty dictated to me! The other problem with that is the SC's perfect knowledge of the crucible's capabilities. Sure the SC is a hyperadvanced AI but it can't honestly calculate that synthesis is the best course of action in the fraction of time it has.

[EpyonX3]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Error on my part. I thought the Presidium was the base of the Citadel tower, which is what I meant in my post.

If the tower (in the middle) is ~1km long the base is _very_ small, less than 100m across which is about how big the final "arena" is

Where are you getting these from?

[Mobius-Silent]

Grimwick wrote...
Still feels pretty dictated to me! The other problem with that is the SC's perfect knowledge of the crucible's capabilities. Sure the SC is a hyperadvanced AI but it can't honestly calculate that synthesis is the best course of action in the fraction of time it has.

In my head I'm combining it with this from the leaked script. Having the Catalyst's ability to control the reapers _gone_ once we docked the Crucible and having the Catalyst being worried about that.... makes me feel much better

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 30 mai 2012 - 04:51 .

[Mobius-Silent]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Where are you getting these from?

The image or sizing?

The size is from the codex the image is here but I also export the models myself (and do flycam stuff) but I haven't found _that_ citadel model yet, it's from ME2 but I don't know where, I have the lower res one from ME1 and all the bits from the end of ME3 (hence the untextured image)

Oooooh I've just worked out where is comes from, it's going to be the "model" one from Shepards trophy/model case. Hence it might not have Citadel in it's name. Fantastic!

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 30 mai 2012 - 05:02 .

[EpyonX3]

I updated the OP so that people would look through the thread first.

[EpyonX3]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Where are you getting these from?

The image or sizing?

The size is from the codex the image is here but I also export the models myself (and do flycam stuff) but I haven't found _that_ citadel model yet, it's from ME2 but I don't know where, I have the lower res one from ME1 and all the bits from the end of ME3 (hence the untextured image)

Oooooh I've just worked out where is comes from, it's going to be the "model" one from Shepards trophy/model case. Hence it might not have Citadel in it's name. Fantastic!

I figured you were getting them from the game. Is 3D modeling a hobby for you or is this something you're studying or already working in?

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Where did the base go? The shinning area is flat.

[Parabolee77]

You know what. I take it back. You were right EpyonX3, that extra nubbin does appear to be an anomaly.

I now 99.9% believe that the "nubbin" does become the decision chamber cylinder section.

Your wrong abour Shepard being on the Crucible though. It's the Citadel for sure. However your investigation did uncover the fact that the Crucible deploys an interface that hooks into the Citadel!

Interesting! It at the very least makes sense as to how nobody noticed these odd things on the platform underneath the Citadel tower.

Not that any of it matters because none of this bit is real as Shepard is hallucinating by this point.

Modifié par Parabolee77, 30 mai 2012 - 05:21 .

[Cypher_CS]

Favourite store on the CitadeI wrote...

Nice post, but should it REALLY have to take this much examining to come to the conclusion that Shepard was not on the Citadel? C'mon BioWare...

No, it shouldn't.
But guess what, Personally, I never, for a moment, thought those prongs, those options, were ever part of the Citadel.

Doesn't matter if Shepard stands on the Citadel or not - what matters is that those prongs are part of the Crucible as it is attached to the Citadel.

[EpyonX3]

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Where did the base go? The shinning area is flat.

What do you mean by base? Can you clarify?