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[The Night Mammoth]

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip*

Where did the base go? The shinning area is flat.

What do you mean by base? Can you clarify?

I think he means the 'base' where Shepard stands just does not exist at that point. 

[EpyonX3]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

*snip*

Where did the base go? The shinning area is flat.

What do you mean by base? Can you clarify?

I think he means the 'base' where Shepard stands just does not exist at that point. 

That's the thing. We don't see either part b or the decision room in that shot. This is what led me to believe that the crucible's part b connected to the citdel like I illustrated.

Reasons for bioware not showing it?

• Didn't feel like it needed to be explained.
• Didn't have enough time to render the animations for this transition? (EC might explain)
• Technical issues they couldn't work around

And no, there's no Bioware's lazy reason because I just don't believe that.

Modifié par EpyonX3, 30 mai 2012 - 10:20 .

[EpyonX3]

*cricket*

[ohiocat110]

This is some awesome investagative work. Really, it is. Which almost makes me feel bad to have to point out that (somehow) nobody seems to have noticed that if this is correct...

The entire ending takes place with Shepard standing in the hard vacuum of open space.

I don't see any windows, do you? Mass Effect doesn't really use force fields as a device to keep out open space like Star Wars does either. It's all airlocks and breathing masks when exposed to vacuum.

If anything this is more evidence that the end takes place in Shepard's mind as a test/hallucination/dream/indoctrination. Shepard was familiar with the Crucible design, so he would know what the area looked like. It could also have been transferred to him, since we know that's possible through biotics or technology (Liara, Prothean Beacon).

[EpyonX3]

ohiocat110 wrote...

This is some awesome investagative work. Really, it is. Which almost makes me feel bad to have to point out that (somehow) nobody seems to have noticed that if this is correct...

The entire ending takes place with Shepard standing in the hard vacuum of open space.

I don't see any windows, do you? Mass Effect doesn't really use force fields as a device to keep out open space like Star Wars does either. It's all airlocks and breathing masks when exposed to vacuum.

If anything this is more evidence that the end takes place in Shepard's mind as a test/hallucination/dream/indoctrination. Shepard was familiar with the Crucible design, so he would know what the area looked like. It could also have been transferred to him, since we know that's possible through biotics or technology (Liara, Prothean Beacon).

Actually, Mass Effect Fields are used to maintain atmospheres. In fact the are used on the Citadel.

[Mobius-Silent]

ohiocat110 wrote...
This is some awesome investagative work. Really, it is. Which almost makes me feel bad to have to point out that (somehow) nobody seems to have noticed that if this is correct...

The entire ending takes place with Shepard standing in the hard vacuum of open space.

I don't see any windows, do you? Mass Effect doesn't really use force fields as a device to keep out open space like Star Wars does either. It's all airlocks and breathing masks when exposed to vacuum.

If anything this is more evidence that the end takes place in Shepard's mind as a test/hallucination/dream/indoctrination. Shepard was familiar with the Crucible design, so he would know what the area looked like. It could also have been transferred to him, since we know that's possible through biotics or technology (Liara, Prothean Beacon).

Codex, Citadel Station: Wards
The Wards are open-topped, with skyscrapers rising from the superstructure. Towers are sealed against vacuum, as the breathable atmosphere envelope is only maintained to a height of about seven meters. The atmosphere is contained by the centrifugal force of rotation and a "membrane" of dense, colorless sulphur hexafluoride gas, held in place by carefully managed mass effect fields 

Codex, Citadel Station: Presidium Ring
The Tower, at the center of the Ring, holds the administration of the Citadel Council. The Tower rises over a kilometer from the ring, appearing to thrust forward parallel to the ward arms. As the Tower is at the center of the spin axis, it experiences little centrifugal force. Gravity is maintained using mass effect fields at a 90-degree angle to the Ring and Wards.

[EpyonX3]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

ohiocat110 wrote...
This is some awesome investagative work. Really, it is. Which almost makes me feel bad to have to point out that (somehow) nobody seems to have noticed that if this is correct...

The entire ending takes place with Shepard standing in the hard vacuum of open space.

I don't see any windows, do you? Mass Effect doesn't really use force fields as a device to keep out open space like Star Wars does either. It's all airlocks and breathing masks when exposed to vacuum.

If anything this is more evidence that the end takes place in Shepard's mind as a test/hallucination/dream/indoctrination. Shepard was familiar with the Crucible design, so he would know what the area looked like. It could also have been transferred to him, since we know that's possible through biotics or technology (Liara, Prothean Beacon).

Codex, Citadel Station: Wards
The Wards are open-topped, with skyscrapers rising from the superstructure. Towers are sealed against vacuum, as the breathable atmosphere envelope is only maintained to a height of about seven meters. The atmosphere is contained by the centrifugal force of rotation and a "membrane" of dense, colorless sulphur hexafluoride gas, held in place by carefully managed mass effect fields 

Codex, Citadel Station: Presidium Ring
The Tower, at the center of the Ring, holds the administration of the Citadel Council. The Tower rises over a kilometer from the ring, appearing to thrust forward parallel to the ward arms. As the Tower is at the center of the spin axis, it experiences little centrifugal force. Gravity is maintained using mass effect fields at a 90-degree angle to the Ring and Wards.

Ahh there it goes. Saved me the effort!

[CuseGirl]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

ohiocat110 wrote...
This is some awesome investagative work. Really, it is. Which almost makes me feel bad to have to point out that (somehow) nobody seems to have noticed that if this is correct...

The entire ending takes place with Shepard standing in the hard vacuum of open space.

I don't see any windows, do you? Mass Effect doesn't really use force fields as a device to keep out open space like Star Wars does either. It's all airlocks and breathing masks when exposed to vacuum.

If anything this is more evidence that the end takes place in Shepard's mind as a test/hallucination/dream/indoctrination. Shepard was familiar with the Crucible design, so he would know what the area looked like. It could also have been transferred to him, since we know that's possible through biotics or technology (Liara, Prothean Beacon).

Codex, Citadel Station: Wards
The Wards are open-topped, with skyscrapers rising from the superstructure. Towers are sealed against vacuum, as the breathable atmosphere envelope is only maintained to a height of about seven meters. The atmosphere is contained by the centrifugal force of rotation and a "membrane" of dense, colorless sulphur hexafluoride gas, held in place by carefully managed mass effect fields 

Codex, Citadel Station: Presidium Ring
The Tower, at the center of the Ring, holds the administration of the Citadel Council. The Tower rises over a kilometer from the ring, appearing to thrust forward parallel to the ward arms. As the Tower is at the center of the spin axis, it experiences little centrifugal force. Gravity is maintained using mass effect fields at a 90-degree angle to the Ring and Wards.

Ahh there it goes. Saved me the effort!

But that still didn't cover the maintenance of air/oxygen or the protection from vacuumed space. Or do we just assume the mass effect field handle that as well?

[EpyonX3]

CuseGirl wrote...

But that still didn't cover the maintenance of air/oxygen or the protection from vacuumed space. Or do we just assume the mass effect field handle that as well?

The mass Effect field hols it all in place. Remeber when the SR1 was attacked in ME2? Joker was behind an ME field that scealed him in a buble of air and protected him from the vacuum of space.

The same can be in play for the crucible/citadel join point.

[Mobius-Silent]

CuseGirl wrote...
But that still didn't cover the maintenance of air/oxygen or the protection from vacuumed space. Or do we just assume the mass effect field handle that as well?

The Citadel is covered in nanofabricators and atmosphere generators/recyclers and the ME fields are know to be able to protect from vacuum (ME2 beginning) and stated in the codex to be used on the Citadel (above)... how much more do you need?

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 01 juin 2012 - 09:05 .

[EpyonX3]

Anything new?

[Bill Casey]

Has it been pointed out the Catalyst outright says you are on the Citadel?


Because that means one of two things...
Either Shepard is on the Citadel, or the Catalyst is lying...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 03 juin 2012 - 10:04 .

[Mobius-Silent]

Bill Casey wrote...

Has it been pointed out the Catalyst outright says you are on the Citadel?
Because that means one of two things...
Either Shepard is on the Citadel, or the Catalyst is lying...

We've moved on from that, Shep is on the Citadel, but the central dais with the control and destroy platforms unfolds from the Crucible

I've just finished a single image summary of the idea (It's big, please open in a new tab)
Link to image

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 09 juin 2012 - 05:12 .

[Candidate 88766]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Has it been pointed out the Catalyst outright says you are on the Citadel?
Because that means one of two things...
Either Shepard is on the Citadel, or the Catalyst is lying...

We've moved on from that, Shep is on the Citadel, but the central dais with the control and destroy platforms unfolds from the Crucible

I've just finished a single image summary of the idea (It's big, please open in a new tab)
Link to image

This is pretty compelling, and if true it helps explain why the Crucible works - the functions were built into it, not the Citadel.

However, there is still a problem - if you watch the clip of the Crucible docking with the Citadel, nothing flies off of it onto the base of the tower, which is what this thread assumes happens. If it was the case, it seems likely Bioware would've shown it happening. Its still pretty compelling, but there is still some ambiguity about it.

[KingZayd]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

You're missing a screen-shot.

Specifically the one that actually shows you what is on the end of the Crucible.

You mean this one?

The one that doesn't show us a direct profile of the crucible docking, or show us the structures that extend out to the prongs, shows us what the crucible is connecting to or even explains how the energy is flowing down into the Citadel?


*snip*

That wasn't meant as a dig, I just thought it might add to the results. 

There seems to a be a few conflicting images concerning what exactly is at the end. It seems more like you're standing on the Citadel given the location and architecture around you, and that image above seems to portray that as the part directly above where you stand. 

Either way, it's very concerning that a. the Catalyst brings you there via a magic lift still, and b. why no one ever thought to register why those two structures pertaining to control and destroy exist. 

And that the designers decided to put the trigger mechanisms require manual activation outside the Citadel for some odd reason? Also that a previous cycle decided that what an anti-reaper weapon really needed was a sythesis option.

Modifié par KingZayd, 09 juin 2012 - 11:14 .

[Mobius-Silent]

KingZayd wrote...

And that the designers decided to put the trigger mechanisms require manual activation outside the Citadel for some odd reason? Also that a previous cycle decided that what an anti-reaper weapon really needed was a sythesis option.

Makes sense to me. You've got a device that can manuipulate the Citadel and the Mass relay network to send out _something_ across the galaxy. Maybe the option to destroy is already there but the race that re working on it fo for one of the cycles were pacifistic, or maybe they rely on their tech so much that they couldn't chance the destruction wave wrecking it. Either way they worked on a different payload.

As for the control consoles unfolding onto the Citadel. That is the one "function" that probably only got a single opportunity to be developed. You'd need someone who was in scanning range of the Citadel after the Reapers came through, saw what it did, wasskilled enough to understand it, and then escaped for long enough to help wit the Crucible, I'dd bet the construction of the interface systems happened once and were pretty haphazard. Everyone after that just let that part be.

[Mobius-Silent]

Candidate 88766 wrote...
:innocent:
This is pretty compelling, and if true it helps explain why the Crucible works - the functions were built into it, not the Citadel.

However, there is still a problem - if you watch the clip of the Crucible docking with the Citadel, nothing flies off of it onto the base of the tower, which is what this thread assumes happens. If it was the case, it seems likely Bioware would've shown it happening. Its still pretty compelling, but there is still some ambiguity about it.

No but there is a hard cut and 2 secs or so when we don't see whats going on (we look down fro above the tip of the tower) and then the nubbin is gone

[Candidate 88766]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
:innocent:
This is pretty compelling, and if true it helps explain why the Crucible works - the functions were built into it, not the Citadel.

However, there is still a problem - if you watch the clip of the Crucible docking with the Citadel, nothing flies off of it onto the base of the tower, which is what this thread assumes happens. If it was the case, it seems likely Bioware would've shown it happening. Its still pretty compelling, but there is still some ambiguity about it.

No but there is a hard cut and 2 secs or so when we don't see whats going on (we look down fro above the tip of the tower) and then the nubbin is gone

Is the nubbin there while the Crucible approaches the Citadel? I watched it on YouTube, but it was too dark for me to certain either way.

[Mobius-Silent]

[quote]Candidate 88766 wrote...

[/quote]Is the nubbin there while the Crucible approaches the Citadel? I watched it on YouTube, but it was too dark for me to certain either way.
[/quote]

Yep, right till the end, have a look at the images in the summary image I made above (and open in a new tab, it's a big image) and compare to where shots are taken from in the approach cinematic, the second on is a fraction of a second away from the cut, you can even see the Citadel (the "nubbin" is silouetted against the Presidium ring)

Most of the images I've taken have had their brightness and contrast improved for clarity

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 09 juin 2012 - 03:01 .

[Candidate 88766]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
Is the nubbin there while the Crucible approaches the Citadel? I watched it on YouTube, but it was too dark for me to certain either way.

Yep, right till the end, have a look at the images in the summary image I made above (and open in a new tab, it's a big image) and compare to where shots are taken from in the approach cinematic, the second on is a fraction of a second away from the cut, you can even see the Citadel (the "nubbin" is silouetted against the Presidium ring)

Most of the images I've taken have had their brightness and contrast improved for clarity

Ah my bad, I must've missed them. Well, if the nubbin thing is there on the Crucible's approach (but after its external shell has been discarded), and then can't be seen after the cut when the Crucible is now docked, there's plenty of evidence that this theory is correct. It would go a long way to explaining how the Crucible works.

[shep214]

but wasnt the crucible already done, before they even knew the citadel was the catalyst.?? if so how did they know how to design it so it matched with the citadel perfectly.

[The Angry One]

shep214 wrote...

but wasnt the crucible already done, before they even knew the citadel was the catalyst.?? if so how did they know how to design it so it matched with the citadel perfectly.

The only logical explanation is it was designed by the Reapers or their creators.

[The Night Mammoth]

The Angry One wrote...

shep214 wrote...

but wasnt the crucible already done, before they even knew the citadel was the catalyst.?? if so how did they know how to design it so it matched with the citadel perfectly.

The only logical explanation is it was designed by the Reapers or their creators.

Correct! 

Or everything we've learned about the Crucible is wrong, and we have even less information than we had before. 

Has anyone perpetuating this theory explained why the Catalyst flat-out tells you that you're on the Citadel?

[spirosz]

So can that still explain this scene? -

[JB27]

Omg - once the crucible docks with the citadel, it is all just one giant structure referred to as ...(hold your breath) "the citadel".

Its like if I'm on a flight home and my plane just docked at lax. Let's say we are unboarding the plane (which I am still in) and I'm talking to someone on the phone. I would say yeh, I'm at lax, rather than yeh, I'm on a plane. It gives the other person a better idea of where I really am. Its one of those small things in a conversation that REALLY DONT MATTER!

God, what's wrong with kids today? They need every last little minute detail explained. Just use your imagination and enjoy the story. Two thoughts herThis is a story that was passed down for generations and our play through is really the grandfather telling this story to his grandson (after the credits) which by the way also allows us to determine that Shepard is not dead. The boy asks for more stories about Shepard. And the old man says OK, one more story. POINT BEING: if you've ever played the telephone game, its easy to see how some details would get skewed through the ages

you are all so concerned about the parts that dont matter, that we are really missing out on the great discussion we could be having on our own future and integrating technology with organic life (synthesis ending). This is going to be a real issue coming up in our world and Bioware has given us a great opportunity to start thinking about this ahead of time. Intel is currently working on implants and "it is coming one way or anothet whether people like it or not" according to them.

focus on that which matters. 

thats all for now. i should go.

Modifié par JB27, 09 juin 2012 - 04:37 .