161 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Mammoth]

JB27 wrote...

you are all so concerned about the parts that dont matter, that we are really missing out on the great discussion we could be having on our own future and integrating technology with organic life (synthesis ending). This is going to be a real issue coming up in our world and Bioware has given us a great opportunity to start thinking about this ahead of time. Intel is currently working on implants and "it is coming one way or anothet whether people like it or not" according to them.

focus on that which matters. 

thats all for now. i should go.

Ignoring the self-serving waffle about 'using your imagination' or something, stuff people were using as ropey defenses for this travesty months ago, it's evident from this paragraph that you're quite clearly either a. unware of anything that has happened on this forum or the internet community general for whatever reason, likely willful ignorance, since the game was released, or b. a time traveler. 

I hope it's the latter. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 09 juin 2012 - 05:07 .

[MonkeyKaboom]

I love these threads. I've sold my XBOX copies of the trilogy but still have ME3 in my origin account if I can get a new computer that can run it at the level I feel should be played at. But that's another issue.

Anyways. While this thread is great, I think you guys are looking at it in the wrong perspective. In biology when we write for say, Science magazine or some such, we basically present a general gist. If I'm describing behavior of say, a species of glass frog in Ecuador, I just talk about their behavior. I don't go into the genes controlling nor the amino acid sequencing that the gene is produced from. Now, if I writing on that same topic in say, Herpetologica, then yes I go into all that and more. Its totally different audiences.

I think you guys are approaching this from a design, engineering type perspective. But really, these programmers aren't engineers. Their graphic artists. Emphasis on the artist part. They are trained in presenting an environment in a manner that is visually appealing and can relay information in a way that is understandable to a general audience. The option units are not meant to be accurate. They're meant to be a "physical" terminal for the player to interface with the game to play out their choice. A more appropriate analogy would be utilizing images and text layout to direct eyes to an intended to be the most important segment. Some may read the small print, but its designed in a way that most observers will at least get the deemed most important piece (say a sale notice or something).

I honestly don't think BW has put half as much thought into as you guys are. At least not in the way you are viewing it. Now that may be the issue in of itself. This game catered to a certain sciency group from the get go. I think they dropped the ball there. The fact you guys have to go to such great lengths to figure this out is a sign of bad writing on their part. The story should bring closure to all the questions in a way that is adequate despite having flaws of an architectural basis.

Not faulting you guys or anything.  You have inquisitive minds that like to break things down, figure out what they do and how they work.  I can relate to that.  That's why some of us do what we do.  I just think this is sorta that age old disparity between artistic presentation and scientific logic.  Sometime they work in harmony and when they do its great (and give us ME1).  A lot of times they don't and thus we have the ME3 ending.

Modifié par MonkeyKaboom, 09 juin 2012 - 05:50 .

[Candidate 88766]

shep214 wrote...

but wasnt the crucible already done, before they even knew the citadel was the catalyst.?? if so how did they know how to design it so it matched with the citadel perfectly.

The real question is how none of the galaxy's finest minds noticed that the arms they were building were exactly the same length as the Presidium's raduis, or how the claws at the ends of the arms are exactly the right size to connect to the Presidium.

[shodiswe]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

shep214 wrote...

but wasnt the crucible already done, before they even knew the citadel was the catalyst.?? if so how did they know how to design it so it matched with the citadel perfectly.

The real question is how none of the galaxy's finest minds noticed that the arms they were building were exactly the same length as the Presidium's raduis, or how the claws at the ends of the arms are exactly the right size to connect to the Presidium.

It's slightly surprising, though then again, im guessing... noidea... When building something that big it should be natural to compare the feat to other similar structures... The only structure that is comparable would be the Citadel.

They probably thought the catalyst would be a special focusing lens or something... not the citadel.

[Cypher_CS]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

shep214 wrote...

but wasnt the crucible already done, before they even knew the citadel was the catalyst.?? if so how did they know how to design it so it matched with the citadel perfectly.

The real question is how none of the galaxy's finest minds noticed that the arms they were building were exactly the same length as the Presidium's raduis, or how the claws at the ends of the arms are exactly the right size to connect to the Presidium.

First of all (@Shep214), who said those arms were designed only in this latest cycle?
Maybe previous cycles new the Catalyst was the Citadel earlier, but couldn't finishe the job....

Secondly, is the presidium the only place in the entire galaxy with that radius? Come on...

[Mobius-Silent]

Cypher_CS wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

shep214 wrote...

but wasnt the crucible already done, before they even knew the citadel was the catalyst.?? if so how did they know how to design it so it matched with the citadel perfectly.

The real question is how none of the galaxy's finest minds noticed that the arms they were building were exactly the same length as the Presidium's raduis, or how the claws at the ends of the arms are exactly the right size to connect to the Presidium.

First of all (@Shep214), who said those arms were designed only in this latest cycle?
Maybe previous cycles new the Catalyst was the Citadel earlier, but couldn't finishe the job....

Secondly, is the presidium the only place in the entire galaxy with that radius? Come on...

This cycle did almost _nothing_ to the design of the Crucible, the majority of their work was simply understanding and constructing the tech needed to manufacture the parts. Vendetta states that:

"The plans for the Crucible were passed down to us from the previous cycle and countless cycles before that, at some point, it is difficult to pinpoint when, the Crucible's plans were adapted to incorporate the use of the Catalyst"

All we had in out plans was something like "Catalyst interface bracket" "Catalyst connection cable" and a device capable of producing a massive, variable effect, but seemingly no way to distribute the effect. We developed nothing.

I'm pretty sure that prior to Vendetta everyone though that the Catalyst was something else that they had to build not something that already existed.

[Mobius-Silent]

MonkeyKaboom wrote...
I think you guys are approaching this from a design, engineering type perspective. But really, these programmers aren't engineers. Their graphic artists. Emphasis on the artist part. They are trained in presenting an environment in a manner that is visually appealing and can relay information in a way that is understandable to a general audience. The option units are not meant to be accurate. They're meant to be a "physical" terminal for the player to interface with the game to play out their choice. A more appropriate analogy would be utilizing images and text layout to direct eyes to an intended to be the most important segment. Some may read the small print, but its designed in a way that most observers will at least get the deemed most important piece (say a sale notice or something).

I honestly don't think BW has put half as much thought into as you guys are.  

Many things are planed that get scrapped for time/effort/pacing reasons. Currently we are fishing for information because the end of the game was deliberatly scrubbed of exposition and closure (Just look at the second leaked script, much more explanatory and just plain better) so when the cut-scene people were given that Crucible model, or the level designers were briefed on the nature of the Catalyst/Crucible interface point, they would have been given all the design hints and background info that _might_ have been needed. Even if later a sequence or idea was scrapped or scrubbed of meaning for no good reason (*shakes fist* Hudsoooon!).

By examining this we can hope to get a jump-start on the _intent_ of the scene and prepare ourselves for the EC

For example, lets imagine these two things are true:

1. The choice dais unfolds from the Crucible and we see this in the EC
2. The moment the Crucible connects to the Citadel the Catalyst loses control of the Reapers and can no never regain control (From the leaked script)

Just those two things would make a _huge_ difference to the final scene. Suddenly the Catalyst _doesn't_ hold all the cards, its doesn't control the reapers, they are running wild _right now_ and can do _anything_ they want. The choices are 100% from something that was constructed by this cycles best scientists not some hobsons-choice/reaper-trap, the Catalyst _cannot_ act, it has been subdued by the Crucible and must dutifly explain the options available to the champion of the cycle: Shepard. It'sbeen turned around from "Shepard is told what to do by the Reaper boss" to "Shepard witnesses the Reaper boss disarmed and brought to heel" with is a 180 in narative theme.

This would require tiny dialogue changes and still be in-line with Bioware's "Artistic vision" (As all of this comes from their own content)

This is why I'm interested, not to construct headcannon but to build up my understanding on the _intent_ of the scene regardless how badly it is currently executed. 

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 11 juin 2012 - 09:04 .

[Cypher_CS]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Cypher_CS wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

shep214 wrote...

but wasnt the crucible already done, before they even knew the citadel was the catalyst.?? if so how did they know how to design it so it matched with the citadel perfectly.

The real question is how none of the galaxy's finest minds noticed that the arms they were building were exactly the same length as the Presidium's raduis, or how the claws at the ends of the arms are exactly the right size to connect to the Presidium.

First of all (@Shep214), who said those arms were designed only in this latest cycle?
Maybe previous cycles new the Catalyst was the Citadel earlier, but couldn't finishe the job....

Secondly, is the presidium the only place in the entire galaxy with that radius? Come on...

This cycle did almost _nothing_ to the design of the Crucible, the majority of their work was simply understanding and constructing the tech needed to manufacture the parts. Vendetta states that:

"The plans for the Crucible were passed down to us from the previous cycle and countless cycles before that, at some point, it is difficult to pinpoint when, the Crucible's plans were adapted to incorporate the use of the Catalyst"

All we had in out plans was something like "Catalyst interface bracket" "Catalyst connection cable" and a device capable of producing a massive, variable effect, but seemingly no way to distribute the effect. We developed nothing.

I'm pretty sure that prior to Vendetta everyone though that the Catalyst was something else that they had to build not something that already existed.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying.
I'm so very tired of people pulling the "how could they design it so it fits the Citadel, if they didn't know it was the Citadel" card...

[EpyonX3]

shep214 wrote...

but wasnt the crucible already done, before they even knew the citadel was the catalyst.?? if so how did they know how to design it so it matched with the citadel perfectly.

We didn't design it! We only built it. The designs came from other cycles who knew what the citadel was all about, much more than we did obviously.

[Schachmatt123]

EpyonX3 wrote...

We didn't design it! We only built it. The designs came from other cycles who knew what the citadel was all about, much more than we did obviously.

That makes no sense. In the former cycles, the citadel was the origin of the reaper invasions, leaving it inaccessible for the previous species. Whats the point in designing a superweapon if you cannot use it?

[EpyonX3]

Schachmatt wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

We didn't design it! We only built it. The designs came from other cycles who knew what the citadel was all about, much more than we did obviously.

That makes no sense. In the former cycles, the citadel was the origin of the reaper invasions, leaving it inaccessible for the previous species. Whats the point in designing a superweapon if you cannot use it?

The protheans made it back to the Citadel. They studied it and where able to discover how the reapers came in and where they went. What's to say that other civilizations didn't do the same?

[Schachmatt123]

EpyonX3 wrote...

The protheans made it back to the Citadel. They studied it and where able to discover how the reapers came in and where they went. What's to say that other civilizations didn't do the same?

Because the reapers would have noticed in the next cycle and take actions to prevent it. If they are to win this cycle (unless Bioware really goes for a "autowin-ending with different colours") they make sure that sabotation won't be possible.

Well, the cycle before the protheans obviously didn't make ist back to the citadell
after the invasion. I'd say it is a nice reapertrap after all, but like
your opinion, it is just speculation (allthough there are more hints
ingame that make the crucible suspicious imo - but that's offtopic) 

Modifié par Schachmatt, 26 juin 2012 - 05:02 .