4520 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Hawke_12 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
Ignore Sovereign, that sh*t is retconned.

Makes you wonder what the point was with ME1.

ME3 is the best starting point of the series.

[CroGamer002]

Quackjack wrote...

Really this all comes down to trust, I can respect your views of the ending, but I don't trust them.

See you later boys

Thing is, Catalyst has no reason to lie.


It could have easily let you bleed to death with Illusive Man and Anderson.

[Fiery Knight]

Mesina2 wrote...
ME3 is the best starting point of the series.

There's something strangly familiar in that.

[Quackjack]

Mesina2 wrote...

Quackjack wrote...

Really this all comes down to trust, I can respect your views of the ending, but I don't trust them.

See you later boys

Thing is, Catalyst has no reason to lie.


It could have easily let you bleed to death with Illusive Man and Anderson.

To get you to do his bidding, aka Synthesis
It tries to cover up Destroy and even Control for Synthesis, the Reapers wet dream

[CroGamer002]

Quackjack wrote...
To get you to do his bidding, aka Synthesis
It tries to cover up Destroy and even Control for Synthesis, the Reapers wet dream

Synthesis is not possible with lower EMS.

And if you have the lowest EMS and you destroyed Collector base, you can only kill Reapers and msot of the galaxy with Crucible.


So, why the f*ck Catalyst bothers then, as well?
You can't use Synthesis.

[CrutchCricket]

See my sig for why Shepard isn't "just some dude" in control of Reapers.

It's a true higher intelligence who will
a) be true to the goals of Shepard at first
grow indifferent and not care enough about organics to even notice you while its off doing whatever space gods do.

[Jeb231]

The catalyst could simply reverse the choices. Or not say anything at all. That's beyond the point as the endings clearly show what happens.

Choosing control doesn't make Shepard an hypocrite. He is simply reevaluating a situation when new tidbits of information are delivered, trying to decide what is the best probable outcome regardless of who wants what.

The focus switches from destroying the reapers to getting rid of the guardian once you realize while the reapers may be individual nations they are following a master plan. Control, Destroy and Synthesis do this so they are arguably valid choices.

You can destroy the catalyst without worrying about resolving the problem they were created for, giving up all knowledge from previous cycles which could be essential and killing a race which did nothing but protect themselves in the process. Control assumes instead the Paragon who cured the xenophage, broke peace between Quarian and Geth, saved the Rachni etc wouldn't simply become a maniac once his thoughts and experiences are transferred to a different body. Even if something goes wrong the galaxy will have ample time to prepare for a new war so it seems like a very logical and valid option even if not the most satisfactory one

Modifié par Jeb231, 08 juillet 2012 - 04:56 .

[Captain Kibosh]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Captain Kibosh wrote...

"I'm commander Shepard and this is my favorite Reaper upload."

All the endings are just so ethically compromised, but I've gathered myself enough to choke down Control as my canon ending.

Even so, as I've said on other threads, control is ethically queasy because of the Shepard's newfound status of being the "big brother" to end all big brothers. At what point does Shepard-MachineGod's utopian vision become the rest of the galaxies dystopia?

considering its programming isnow based off of shepards values and ethics, i say never...unless you wer eplaying the nastiest renagade psoible, but even then 

I'd love to agree with you about Shepard's benevolent oversight, but to my mind there are a few problems:

• He is was only one human individual and thus subject to the biases of such, i.e., choosing unilaterally to save or sabotage the genophage at the cost of alienating either the salarians or the krogans respectively.  To continue to reinforce her/his various controversial decisions with the backing of the Reaper power is bound to build some resentment among the affected civilizations.
• And in terms of Shepard's values and ethics being part of a Reaper, I don't think it means he'll have 100% control over them, despite the Star Child's claims.  From Reaper-Shep's own monologue, it may be more accurate to say he informs the Reaper consciousness (as the Reaper consciousness informs him!).
• And I think the Star Child had some exposition about how Shepard will be aware of his relationships in his previous life but will no longer feel emotionally tied to them.  What is the nature of Shepard's values and ethics without the element of his own emotions?  Garrus's concerns about the "ruthless calculus of war" becomes even more relevant should Shepard find himself presiding over socio-political conflicts.  He did it as a human, know he'll do it as a Reaper without any emotional grounding in his human past.

[Seival]

Just finished male version, and fixed some issues in both banners:





...Can anyone post here Renegade version of the Control speech please?

[obZen DF]

You know what my main problem with ME3 is, regarding Control?
That I (and all of YOU, for instance) didn't have the simple option to tell TIM that I think his idea to Control the Reapers is actually a good idea. Only his methods are evil and straight from Hell.
Just imagine what a great conversation that is.
So, with my Renegade Shep, all I did was telling TIM that Control is bad, while I thought it was actually a great idea! *sigh*

[TeasingJewel]

The whole ME series has plot holes, but ME3 has the most and worst of them, there is no doubt about that.

But imo, even If the Reapers are independent like ME1 says, who says that Shep can not convince them to follow him/her, like he/she did with his/her squad members, random people etc.? If they are not independent as ME3 suggests, then Control will allow Shep to "Control" them.

Does this thread really have to turn into a debate about the endings? There is more than enough of them already.

Edit: Quote fail.

Modifié par TeasingJewel, 08 juillet 2012 - 05:42 .

[Seival]

obZen DF wrote...

You know what my main problem with ME3 is, regarding Control?
That I (and all of YOU, for instance) didn't have the simple option to tell TIM that I think his idea to Control the Reapers is actually a good idea. Only his methods are evil and straight from Hell.
Just imagine what a great conversation that is.
So, with my Renegade Shep, all I did was telling TIM that Control is bad, while I thought it was actually a great idea! *sigh*

I think it would be impossible without more information on the matter prior to conversation with the original Catalist.

[CroGamer002]

Seival wrote...

Just finished male version, and fixed some issues in both banners:





...Can anyone post here Renegade version of the Control speech please?

Thanks a lot.

Will use in some other forum, though.

My sig is already crammed.

[Seival]

Mesina2 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Just finished male version, and fixed some issues in both banners:





...Can anyone post here Renegade version of the Control speech please?

Thanks a lot.

Will use in some other forum, though.

My sig is already crammed.

No problem

...And the next animated banners will be for Renegade Shepards. And maybe I'll make some animated banners for squadmates, approving Control.

[obZen DF]

Seival wrote...
I think it would be impossible without more information on the matter prior to conversation with the original Catalist.

I don't see it as needing more information, just the idea of controlling the Reapers.
So that Shepard could've said to TIM on Mars: "Wait, that's actually a good idea. But you're methods suck!"
Or something like that. You following me?

[Seival]

obZen DF wrote...

Seival wrote...
I think it would be impossible without more information on the matter prior to conversation with the original Catalist.

I don't see it as needing more information, just the idea of controlling the Reapers.
So that Shepard could've said to TIM on Mars: "Wait, that's actually a good idea. But you're methods suck!"
Or something like that. You following me?

Yes, but I think that the ending would not be that dramatic in this case

[Captain Kibosh]

Seival wrote...

Just finished male version, and fixed some issues in both banners:





...Can anyone post here Renegade version of the Control speech please?

Cool.  Just thought of what would make a great banner as a change of pace from the usual ending-controversy agendas/declarations of conviction: Mordin Solus's Pirates of Penzanze cover:

I am the very model of a scientist Salarian!
I've studied species, Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology),
because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).

My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian -
I am the very model of a scientist Salarian!

[Seival]

Captain Kibosh wrote...

Seival wrote...

Just finished male version, and fixed some issues in both banners:





...Can anyone post here Renegade version of the Control speech please?

Cool.  Just thought of what would make a great banner as a change of pace from the usual ending-controversy agendas/declarations of conviction: Mordin Solus's Pirates of Penzanze cover:

I am the very model of a scientist Salarian!
I've studied species, Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology),
because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).

My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian -
I am the very model of a scientist Salarian!

[TopSun]

@Seival:

Renegade:
"Infinite. immortal. Eternal.
The man/woman I was used these words, but only now do I truly unterstand them. And only now do I comprehend the full potential of his decision. Through his/her death I was created. Through my birth, his/her thoughts are freed. They guide me now, give me reason, direction. Just has he/she gave direction to the ones who followed him/her, the ones who helped him/her achieve his/her purpose. Now my purpose. To provide the many with a powerful leader. To put an end to the bickering of the many. To ensure the strongest are not feared or reviled for their strenght. The man/woman I was knew that he/she could only achieve this by becoming something greater. Their is power in control. Their is wisdom in harnessing the strenghts of your enemy. I will restore what the many have fought for. I will lead an army that no one will dare oppose. I will protect, defend. I will destroy those who threaten the future of the many. And throughtout it all, I will never forget. I will remember the ones who fought so that the many could survive. And I will keep a watchful eye over the ones who live on. Those who carry the memory of the man/woman I once was. The man/woman who fought to become the one who could lead the many."

Modifié par Big-Boss687, 08 juillet 2012 - 06:41 .

[Seival]

Big-Boss687 wrote...

@Seival:

Renegade:
"Infinite. immortal. Eternal.
The man/woman I was used these words, but only now do I truly unterstand them. And only now do I comprehend the full potential of his decision. Through his/her death I was created. Through my birth, his/her thoughts are freed. They guide me now, give me reason, direction. Just has he/she gave direction to the ones who followed him/her, the ones who helped him/her achieve his/her purpose. Now my purpose. To provide the many with a powerful leader. To put an end to the bickering of the many. To ensure the strongest are not feared or reviled for their strenght. The man/woman I was knew that he/she could only achieve this by becoming something greater. Their is power in control. Their is wisdom in harnessing the strenghts of your enemy. I will restore what the many have fought for. I will lead an army that no one will dare oppose. I will protect, defend. I will destroy those who threaten the future of the many. And throughtout it all, I will never forget. I will remember the ones who fought so that the many could survive. And I will keep a watchful eye over the ones who live on. Those who carry the memory of the man/woman I once was. The man/woman who fought to become the one who could lead the many."

Thanks

[CrutchCricket]

obZen DF wrote...

You know what my main problem with ME3 is, regarding Control?
That I (and all of YOU, for instance) didn't have the simple option to tell TIM that I think his idea to Control the Reapers is actually a good idea. Only his methods are evil and straight from Hell.
Just imagine what a great conversation that is.
So, with my Renegade Shep, all I did was telling TIM that Control is bad, while I thought it was actually a great idea! *sigh*

Pick the only the red renegade responses during the convo with TIM. He'll basically just goad TIM along and prove that he doesn't have control at all. No value judgement on whether control is good or not. Just "if you have control, prove it".

I like that.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 08 juillet 2012 - 08:00 .

[Seival]

Maybe one of some future DLCs will give Shepard an opportunity to learn more about the Reapers and Control before the final battle? This could be nice, but only if Shepard still wouldn't be completely convinced about Control possibility before talking to the original Catalist.

[MegaSovereign]

Seival wrote...

Maybe one of some future DLCs will give Shepard an opportunity to learn more about the Reapers and Control before the final battle? This could be nice, but only if Shepard still wouldn't be completely convinced about Control possibility before talking to the original Catalist.

Control is not canon. They're not going to dedicate DLC to it.

But yes I hope they make DLC pertaining to the Reapers' origins.

[Moshaaver]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Seival wrote...

Maybe one of some future DLCs will give Shepard an opportunity to learn more about the Reapers and Control before the final battle? This could be nice, but only if Shepard still wouldn't be completely convinced about Control possibility before talking to the original Catalist.

Control is not canon. They're not going to dedicate DLC to it.

But yes I hope they make DLC pertaining to the Reapers' origins.

Who says Control is not canon? Who has said definitively what Canon is.

Provide evidence or don't say stuff bro.

The sky is red. They're not going to dedicate DLC to it.

[CrutchCricket]

Nor should they declare canon. For anything ME. Ever.

Besides I think we're good with what we know. We can imagine better off it.