Icharas wrote...
@CrutchCricket: So you're saying the Commander will grow indifferent from lesser beings, as they mean nothing to a cosmic entity. While your parallels to Dr. Manhattan are completely sensible they are in direct contrast to the epilogue. "And throughout it all I will never forget [...] I will keep a watchful eye over those who live on." Sure, the Commander won't be interested in answering prayers and I think it's safe to assume he/she will devote most of his/her resources for tasks which are beyond our comprehension. However, as stated in the epilogue, I am certain the Commander will always at least keep peacekeeping.exe running as a background task.
Dr. Manhattan creates copies of himself to be present in different locations. The Commander can be everywhere (in reaper tech sensor range). Accordingly, the Commander should be able to pursue whatever AND secure the future of the many.
Well frankly I thought the epilogue laid it on a bit thick with the whole watching over people thing. I guess they felt they had to. But I do not see that state as permanent or even very long-lasting. It all goes back to scale. Go back to Dr. Manhattan: "The world's smartest man poses no more threat to me than does its smartest termite". Skipping over the whole "threat" part, Mahattan is as above us as we are above termites. Would we really dedicate all our time (eternity in the case of these beings) to watching over termites? You might start out guarding them. Commander is built with Shepard's persona and Shepard would want to ensure the galaxy's alright. Similarily Dr. Manhattan may have initially set out to help his country and his world by using his powers to advance technology. But eventually indifference set in and in the case of Manhattan, almost a resentment at trivialities these people kept pestering him with.
It's not about physically being there either. You're right in that physical presense is almost irrelevant. But remember even before the full disconnect Manhattan was in his own world. That's what finally drives Laurie away. It'll be the same sort of thing with Commander. Essentially it'll just cease to really "notice" us.
The basic arguement boils down to this:
1. There are levels of understanding and percieving the universe far above those of organics. For simplicity sake let's call it the cosmic level (even though it may not techincally be cosmic)
2. Because of the vastness of scale between levels and between beings of those levels, organics seem trivial and insignificant.
3.Any being operating at the cosmic level will thefore see organics as trivial and insignificant.
4. Commander is operating at the cosmic level therefore 3.
With the intial endings I was ready to claim this was immediate and Commander doesn't even notice organics after its transformation. However the epilogue threw all that guardian stuff at me so I had to account for it. It still works, just later.
The disconnect I mentioned does not occur right away (though I'm a little uncertain about how much longer it has given the post I linked at the bottom about estimated Reaper intelligence). But it does occur and when it does organics are on their own.
Regarding the impossibility to establish contact with those infinitely our greater: Right after the battle, the quickest way would be taking over the Shepard VIs which have spread everywhere. Just have a Shepard VI in the holocommunicator have a talk with the council/Hackett/insert-military-or-political-leader-here and explain the situation. (As Kasumi was helping with the Crucible AND shown in the epilogue slides, there are obviously survivors. Hell, Jacob was even on the Citadel.)
Are you talking about communicating with Commander? No, that's not difficult at all. I personally think it can project a hologram representation of itself anywhere within range of Reaper artifacts. And we know Reapers can create techno-organic bodies. It could create a fully physical Shepard, an almost perfect replica of the original. Whether it would want to is another matter.
Finally, about the organics vs. synthetics thing: Whereas the Geth only want to live, there are examples in the Mass Effect universe such as the Metacon War. Given time, organic life will create synthetics. Given more time, organic life will create synthetics who conclude they would be better off without organics. Given sufficient time, organic life will create aggressive synthetics, who actually manage to overwhelm all organics. Obviously this must have happened to those who created the Catalyst... or at least they reached a point where they needed to create an AI to keep the peace (and failed terribly).
Ok what you've basically said is "I see your example of where organics and synthetics work, now here's one where it didn't." Score's still tied.
And none of those assertions are proven to be inevitable. In fact, I'll even go so far as to say that if you can conceptualize an advanced civilization that does not use "synthetic technology" (and really these definitions of "organic" and "synthetic" are killing me) then this whole problem goes out the window.
Case in point the Yuuzhan Vong. Yes I know they're not from the ME universe. But I would dearly love to see what the holokid makes of them. Completely organic tech. No synthetics, and great hatred of them. Tell me it's inevitable they'll make synthetics.
Want an example closer to home? The thorian. One being, granted, not a civilization. Sentient? Possibly. Intelligent? Obviously. Organic? Most certainly. What's interesting about the thorian is that it doesn't usually interfere with people's lives. As long as they do nothing that harms or neglects it, the spores do not influence their hosts. I believe the thorian views synthetics as threats or doesn't undestand them. Organics under thorian control would therefore not create synthetics.
Another example: the rachni. Sentient organic species. Hive mind. The rationale is that organics create synthetics to improve their own lot in life. But an insect species isn't going to care about personal comfort or ease of life. Given the queen-drone-warrior etc structure of the hive it seems that Rachni and similar species will always try an organic solution before a synthetic one. Need defense or faster building? Spawn (more overlords:P) a new drone that better suited to teh task. No synthetics required. I know they have (or had) starships but we're talking about AI not tech in general.
All in all: holokid is talking crap and there is nothing inevitable about Skynet.
Modifié par CrutchCricket, 11 juillet 2012 - 07:48 .
Beware Leviathan!
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