4520 réponses à ce sujet

[obZen DF]

Man, I would love to see a banner with Legion stating that he 's behind Sheps decision to Control.

[Ageless Face]

^ Well, there is the "The geth only acted in defense. Do we deserve death?" Banner.

[Icharas]

I must admit, my viewpoint was that of a humanoid, garden-variety race which puts an interest personal comfort. Insects or plants won't create synthetics, the 'regular' races however, do (both). Now even if most of them are completely friendly and no threat at all. The issue is organic life being doomed if skynet takes place just once. (And again, with infinite time, there will be infinite uprisings, although it might take billions of years.)

Regarding the indifference: Although the Commander truly has a higher level of perceiving the galaxy (not saying universe as he/she still remains bound to the milky way), you cannot think of him/her as an organic mind. (No, I won't come up with some the CDR is an AI who thinks it's Shep.) A human would neither notice nor care about microbes, that's right. However, the CDR has access to all this data regarding every galactic civilization since the dawn of the reapers. As long as every reaper contains the records of a lost civilization, I don't think he/she will forget.

Besides, in contrast to meatbags and microbes the CDR has the required sensors to perceive them without the need of a microscope

[obZen DF]

HagarIshay wrote...

^ Well, there is the "The geth only acted in defense. Do we deserve death?" Banner.

Yeah, I know. But I mean specifically Legion. Saying something along the lines: "This unit supports our guardian Shepard-Commander." I don't know.

[CrutchCricket]

Icharas wrote...

I must admit, my viewpoint was that of a humanoid, garden-variety race which puts an interest personal comfort. Insects or plants won't create synthetics, the 'regular' races however, do (both). Now even if most of them are completely friendly and no threat at all. The issue is organic life being doomed if skynet takes place just once. (And again, with infinite time, there will be infinite uprisings, although it might take billions of years.)

Except Skynet did happen once and the Protheans were winning. Until the Reapers showed up.

Regarding the indifference: Although the Commander truly has a higher level of perceiving the galaxy (not saying universe as he/she still remains bound to the milky way), you cannot think of him/her as an organic mind. (No, I won't come up with some the CDR is an AI who thinks it's Shep.) A human would neither notice nor care about microbes, that's right. However, the CDR has access to all this data regarding every galactic civilization since the dawn of the reapers. As long as every reaper contains the records of a lost civilization, I don't think he/she will forget.

Besides, in contrast to meatbags and microbes the CDR has the required sensors to perceive them without the need of a microscope

It's not about organic minds and forgetting. I don't forget about microbes and bacteria even though I can't percieve them all the time. And I don't forget about them because I'm organic and thus forgetful. I just don't think about them because they're insignificant to my goals. As a higher life form I have goals that are completely beyond bacteria and do not involve them at all. Commander is a higher life form still and has goals that we are insignificant to.

Oh and I don't think Commander remains bound to this galaxy at all. The Reapers tied themselves to this galaxy but they had the means to reach another if they chose to.

[obZen DF]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Icharas wrote...

I must admit, my viewpoint was that of a humanoid, garden-variety race which puts an interest personal comfort. Insects or plants won't create synthetics, the 'regular' races however, do (both). Now even if most of them are completely friendly and no threat at all. The issue is organic life being doomed if skynet takes place just once. (And again, with infinite time, there will be infinite uprisings, although it might take billions of years.)

Except Skynet did happen once and the Protheans were winning. Until the Reapers showed up.

Regarding the indifference: Although the Commander truly has a higher level of perceiving the galaxy (not saying universe as he/she still remains bound to the milky way), you cannot think of him/her as an organic mind. (No, I won't come up with some the CDR is an AI who thinks it's Shep.) A human would neither notice nor care about microbes, that's right. However, the CDR has access to all this data regarding every galactic civilization since the dawn of the reapers. As long as every reaper contains the records of a lost civilization, I don't think he/she will forget.

Besides, in contrast to meatbags and microbes the CDR has the required sensors to perceive them without the need of a microscope

It's not about organic minds and forgetting. I don't forget about microbes and bacteria even though I can't percieve them all the time. And I don't forget about them because I'm organic and thus forgetful. I just don't think about them because they're insignificant to my goals. As a higher life form I have goals that are completely beyond bacteria and do not involve them at all. Commander is a higher life form still and has goals that we are insignificant to.

Oh and I don't think Commander remains bound to this galaxy at all. The Reapers tied themselves to this galaxy but they had the means to reach another if they chose to.

Interesting point on the bacteria. But as you said, your goals are beyond bacteria, but you're still within the same ecosystem. Scientists will always keep studying them, there's so much to discover. Commander can do the same, and given the thought that Commander has the data on all previous civilizations, it can study them, discover new things, keep track on the races still present, maybe improve organic life, I don't know how, but see it as improvements such as finding a way to make humans live longer. Just like scientists came up with Antibacterial to help us.

[Seival]

estebanus wrote...

Seival wrote...

obZen DF wrote...

Seival I wanted to say thanks for the awesome banner.

You know what I really like? That the Control Ending Support thread is alive and well, and Destroy and Synthesis are nowhere to be seen.

Thanks

I think each ending deserves its own constructive support thread. And there is actually one nice thread for Synthesis as far as I remember. But all Destroy threads are gone... Well, I guess it's up to Destroyers to make (or resurrect) their support thread.

We destroyers don't need to justify why we chose the option that every one of our companions wanted us to choose. 

But that's just my opinion/

Well, support thread with justifications is not really good support thread. Good support thread is about expectations, explanations, and constructive theories...

...I disagree that all companions couldn't choose Control if they had to choose. Just few examples. Liara has chosen to become the new Shadowbroker and use previous Shadowbroker's resources for good, instead of destroying the entire information-dealing network. Legion has chosen to use Reaper code and upload it to all Geth, instead of destroying it... etc...

I think Destroyers have a lot of things to discuss... Well, and I actually just remembered one thread which you as Destroyer might like: http://social.biowar...ndex/12264531/1

...I think it will be really nice to have Control, Synthesis, and Destroy support threads on the first page all the time.

Modifié par Seival, 11 juillet 2012 - 08:52 .

[CrutchCricket]

obZen DF wrote...
Interesting point on the bacteria. But as you said, your goals are beyond bacteria, but you're still within the same ecosystem. Scientists will always keep studying them, there's so much to discover. Commander can do the same, and given the thought that Commander has the data on all previous civilizations, it can study them, discover new things, keep track on the races still present, maybe improve organic life, I don't know how, but see it as improvements such as finding a way to make humans live longer. Just like scientists came up with Antibacterial to help us.

Very true. I am part of the same ecosystem and bacteria are intrinsic to my survival. But the same is not true for Commander which is why this analogy only goes so far. Commander is not reliant or organics for anything and it is not necessarily a part of their "ecosystem". Also our scientists study bacteria for possible applications to help humanity. Very few if any study bacteria for bacteria's sake. Commander does not need organics for anything. So like our scientists, it is not likely to study organics and try and improve them for their own sakes. What I'm trying to say is the difference between them is so vast they are inconsequential to one another.

[obZen DF]

@Seival: Yeah, like on top of the page just like BioWare's topics. That would be awesome.

@Cricketycricket: Yes, that's a good point you got there, about Commander not necessarily needing us. I overlooked that fact. But I truly think that Commander will do something to improve organics. Maybe only in it's beginning stage, right after everything is rebuild. That it needs to 'grow' into the system or something. And because of Shepard's persona, and taking into account Dr. Manhatten's way to help  improve technology for the army and such. And indeed, after awhile, it persues new goals beyond our comprehension. Isn't that what you said in the Control explained thread? But, where I'm trying to go to, is the amount of time before that happens. And how it will happen. Commander is centered on the Citadel right? So, what will happen if it decides to go to another galaxy, for instance? I'm pretty interested in how other people think about that and come to a certain hypothesis.

My brain is not really helping me out tonight haha. Can't think straight.

Modifié par obZen DF, 11 juillet 2012 - 09:30 .

[Seival]

...I have some interesting thoughts about Control, Synthesis, Destroy, Female Shepard, Male Shepard and... Mass Effect Movie.

Just imagine... The Movie uses only voice actors, movement actors, and powerful graphical engine (like in Avatar movie). In this case BioWare can actually render different versions of The Movie easily enough. So they can actually render Mass Effect Movie in 6 different variants:
 > Female Shepard + Control Ending.
 > Male Shepard + Control Ending.
 > Female Shepard + Synthesis Ending.
 > Male Shepard + Synthesis Ending.
 > Female Shepard + Destroy Ending.
 > Male Shepard + Destroy Ending.

...Or even in 12 different variants - Paragon and Renegade versions for all above. And sell different variants of The Movie online separately...

...Next-gen cinema is coming

Modifié par Seival, 11 juillet 2012 - 10:05 .

[Icharas]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Icharas wrote...

I must admit, my viewpoint was that of a humanoid, garden-variety race which puts an interest personal comfort. Insects or plants won't create synthetics, the 'regular' races however, do (both). Now even if most of them are completely friendly and no threat at all. The issue is organic life being doomed if skynet takes place just once. (And again, with infinite time, there will be infinite uprisings, although it might take billions of years.)

Except Skynet did happen once and the Protheans were winning. Until the Reapers showed up.

Missing the point. With Skynet I don't mean the created rebelling against their creators but the created winning against their creators. The reapers harvest us every 50,000 years for this very reason. To stop us from creating synthetics who can actually destroy us. I really think the Metacon War is a great example. You see, the Protheans (or another civilization of their time) had just created an organic race which was just not powerful enough to overthrow the organic Protheans. It was just then when the vanguard of their destruction awoke and realized that organic life would have created even more powerful synthetics by the time it awoke again. Accordingly, in order to 'save' organic life from being destroyed, the harvest began.

As long as the cycle continued, the Reapers prevented Skynet. Now, since the Reapers are gone, it is inevitable.

Regarding the indifference: Although the Commander truly has a higher level of perceiving the galaxy (not saying universe as he/she still remains bound to the milky way), you cannot think of him/her as an organic mind. (No, I won't come up with some the CDR is an AI who thinks it's Shep.) A human would neither notice nor care about microbes, that's right. However, the CDR has access to all this data regarding every galactic civilization since the dawn of the reapers. As long as every reaper contains the records of a lost civilization, I don't think he/she will forget.

Besides, in contrast to meatbags and microbes the CDR has the required sensors to perceive them without the need of a microscope

It's not about organic minds and forgetting. I don't forget about microbes and bacteria even though I can't percieve them all the time. And I don't forget about them because I'm organic and thus forgetful. I just don't think about them because they're insignificant to my goals. As a higher life form I have goals that are completely beyond bacteria and do not involve them at all. Commander is a higher life form still and has goals that we are insignificant to.

As I said, I realize a higher life form does has its own goals. But maybe we should step away from the microbes. We cannot interact with microbes, you see? Even though regular organics resemble microbes to the CDR when compared in size, the CDR can interact with us. This actually does make a difference. We cannot interact with microbes at all and we can barely interact with small insects such as ants. Now what if we exchange the microbes with, let's say, ducks in a pond? We still are a higher life form and our goals are completely beyond them but we can percieve them.
Even though they gain nothing out of it, people step by and feed them. They won't enter the park just to feed the ducks, but they will feed them when they pass by on their way home from the supermarket.
My point is, organic beings (including the CDR, as his/her personality is formed by an organic being) will always do things which they gain nothing of, even drain their resources a bit. (Whereas the parkstroller loses some bread, the CDR can't devote some of his reapers for his/her own goals in order to keep the galactic peace. And they really only require an extremely small presence. Just one or two reapers at the citadel to remind everyone of his/her presence would suffice, as he/she 'will lead an army noone will dare oppose.')

However, I'm willing to assume the CDR will turn away from us eventually... we got infinite time after all.
In this case, Control would basically turn into the same outcome as Destroy or Refusal. A galactic community without Reapers. Thus, Skynet will destroy all organic life. Still, Control remains preferable as it delays the invitable.

So in the end, every single one of the endings leads to the destruction of all organic life eventually. That's rather sad... However, in a sudden case of fridge logic, I think I'm realizing this might have been EAs plan with the ending after all. If every ending leads to the destruction of organic life due to Skynet, we have our common base for Mass Effect 4.

Oh and I don't think Commander remains bound to this galaxy at all. The Reapers tied themselves to this galaxy but they had the means to reach another if they chose to.

Alright, that makes sense. It would take forever, but seeing as the CDR is an eternal being, this wouldn't matter. Besides, as he/she is based on the citadel and has the means for instant communication, it could actually send 'explorers' to other galaxies... Now that's a pastime I could actually imagine for a cosmic being.

edit: added the underlined paragraphs.

Modifié par Icharas, 11 juillet 2012 - 10:50 .

[Seival]

Icharas wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Icharas wrote...

I must admit, my viewpoint was that of a humanoid, garden-variety race which puts an interest personal comfort. Insects or plants won't create synthetics, the 'regular' races however, do (both). Now even if most of them are completely friendly and no threat at all. The issue is organic life being doomed if skynet takes place just once. (And again, with infinite time, there will be infinite uprisings, although it might take billions of years.)

Except Skynet did happen once and the Protheans were winning. Until the Reapers showed up.

Missing the point. With Skynet I don't mean the created rebelling against their creators but the created winning against their creators. The reapers harvest us every 50,000 years for this very reason. To stop us from creating synthetics who can actually destroy us. I really think the Metacon War is a great example. You see, the Protheans (or another civilization of their time) had just created an organic race which was just not powerful enough to overthrow the organic Protheans. It was just then when the vanguard of their destruction awoke and realized that organic life would have created even more powerful synthetics by the time it awoke again. Accordingly, in order to 'save' organic life from being destroyed, the harvest began.

As long as the cycle continued, the Reapers prevented Skynet. Now, since the Reapers are gone, it is inevitable.

Regarding the indifference: Although the Commander truly has a higher level of perceiving the galaxy (not saying universe as he/she still remains bound to the milky way), you cannot think of him/her as an organic mind. (No, I won't come up with some the CDR is an AI who thinks it's Shep.) A human would neither notice nor care about microbes, that's right. However, the CDR has access to all this data regarding every galactic civilization since the dawn of the reapers. As long as every reaper contains the records of a lost civilization, I don't think he/she will forget.

Besides, in contrast to meatbags and microbes the CDR has the required sensors to perceive them without the need of a microscope

It's not about organic minds and forgetting. I don't forget about microbes and bacteria even though I can't percieve them all the time. And I don't forget about them because I'm organic and thus forgetful. I just don't think about them because they're insignificant to my goals. As a higher life form I have goals that are completely beyond bacteria and do not involve them at all. Commander is a higher life form still and has goals that we are insignificant to.

As I said, I realize a higher life form does has its own goals. But maybe we should step away from the microbes. We cannot interact with microbes, you see? Even though regular organics resemble microbes to the CDR when compared in size, the CDR can interact with us. This actually does make a difference. We cannot interact with microbes at all and we can barely interact with small insects such as ants. Now what if we exchange the microbes with, let's say, ducks in a pond? We still are a higher life form and our goals are completely beyond them but we can percieve them.
Even though they gain nothing out of it, people step by and feed them. They won't enter the park just to feed the ducks, but they will feed them when they pass by on their way home from the supermarket.
My point is, organic beings (including the CDR, as his/her personality is formed by an organic being) will always do things which they gain nothing of, even drain their resources a bit. (Whereas the parkstroller loses some bread, the CDR can't devote some of his reapers for his/her own goals in order to keep the galactic peace. And they really only require an extremely small presence. Just one or two reapers at the citadel to remind everyone of his/her presence would suffice, as he/she 'will lead an army noone will dare oppose.')

However, I'm willing to assume the CDR will turn away from us eventually... we got infinite time after all.
In this case, Control would basically turn into the same outcome as Destroy or Refusal. A galactic community without Reapers. Thus, Skynet will destroy all organic life. Still, Control remains preferable as it delays the invitable.

So in the end, every single one of the endings leads to the destruction of all organic life eventually. That's rather sad... However, in a sudden case of fridge logic, I think I'm realizing this might have been EAs plan with the ending after all. If every ending leads to the destruction of organic life due to Skynet, we have our common base for Mass Effect 4.

Oh and I don't think Commander remains bound to this galaxy at all. The Reapers tied themselves to this galaxy but they had the means to reach another if they chose to.

Alright, that makes sense. It would take forever, but seeing as the CDR is an eternal being, this wouldn't matter. Besides, as he/she is based on the citadel and has the means for instant communication, it could actually send 'explorers' to other galaxies... Now that's a pastime I could actually imagine for a cosmic being.

edit: added the underlined paragraphs.

Disagree.

One of the main points of the endings is to give us three different outcomes, not just one outcome. I believe that subsequent ME Universe games will not use ME3 endings as a main point to continue from. ME3 endings will affect some future games' stories most likely (import ME3 save of course), but main plots of those stories will be rather parrallel to the ME Trilogy outcomes. BioWare still have Dark Energy and Reaper Creators plots in reserve. And I'm sure they will use these as main plots in future ME Universe games (I hope it will be new RPG-Trilogy actually).

[Icharas]

Ah, forget what I said about that. Even if they lead to the same outcome eventually, it will be there so far in the future, ME4 won't be affected anyway...

Omg I feel retarded now -.-

Modifié par Icharas, 11 juillet 2012 - 11:44 .

[Seival]

Icharas wrote...

Ah, forget what I said about that. Even if they lead to the same outcome eventually, it will be there so far in the future, ME4 won't be affected anyway...

Omg I feel retarded now -.-

Well, I believe that "only one possible outcome" wasn't intended even in such a long terms. Different endings were created for reason.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

These banners are AWESOME! Really appreciate them. And through it I discovered that there is a Renegade Control Ending. Wow! This is really great and well thought from Bioware.

[Moshaaver]

I still think Control ending is best. But I still think about poor Tali. Therefore I give the poem that Shepard-Reaper would tell Tali.

Wait for me, and I'll come back!
Wait with all you've got!
Wait, when dreary yellow rains
Tell you, you should not.
Wait when snow is falling fast,
Wait when summer's hot,
Wait when yesterdays are past,
Others are forgot.
Wait, when from that far-off place,
Letters don't arrive.
Wait, when those with whom you wait
Doubt if I'm alive.

Wait for me, and I'll come back!
Wait in patience yet
When they tell you off by heart
That you should forget.
Even when my dearest ones
Say that I am lost,
Even when my friends give up,
Sit and count the cost,
Drink a glass of bitter wine
To the fallen friend -
Wait! And do not drink with them!
Wait until the end!

Wait for me and I'll come back,
Dodging every fate!
"What a bit of luck!" they'll say,
Those that would not wait.
They will never understand
How amidst the strife,
By your waiting for me, dear,
You had saved my life.
Only you and I will know
How you got me through.
Simply - you knew how to wait -
No one else but you.

[Veloric Wu]

                                                             
                     

Modifié par FeriktheCerberus, 12 juillet 2012 - 03:58 .

[CrutchCricket]

obZen DF wrote...
@Cricketycricket: Yes, that's a good point you got there, about Commander not necessarily needing us. I overlooked that fact. But I truly think that Commander will do something to improve organics. Maybe only in it's beginning stage, right after everything is rebuild. That it needs to 'grow' into the system or something. And because of Shepard's persona, and taking into account Dr. Manhatten's way to help  improve technology for the army and such. And indeed, after awhile, it persues new goals beyond our comprehension. Isn't that what you said in the Control explained thread? But, where I'm trying to go to, is the amount of time before that happens. And how it will happen. Commander is centered on the Citadel right? So, what will happen if it decides to go to another galaxy, for instance? I'm pretty interested in how other people think about that and come to a certain hypothesis.

My brain is not really helping me out tonight haha. Can't think straight.

Yes before the disconnect Commander's presence will have some beneficial effects although if we follow the Watchmen model exactly it might also lead to rising tensions and the brink of total annihilation (for example if it favored humans because Shepard was human). The theme of technology unearned is also huge in ME so I don't think Commander will be very forthcoming with the advancements. But yes expecting some improvements makes sense.
And I have no idea how long it would be before the disconnect. Could be a few years, could be centuries. Although going by the post I linked to recently in my Control Explained thread it should be much faster than that, almost instantaneous. But given the epilogue, I suppose we must assume some significant time passes before indifference sets in.

As for how it will leave, there you have to go full headcanon. For myself I invision that Commander immediately (i.e. as soon as it assumes control) deletes or absorbs every Reaper consciousness and installs itself in the shells. It then removes itself from the Citadel (perhaps leaving some a guardian program of some sort behind) but not before trashing the Crucible docking mechanism so none may override its control. It is now free, one entity composed of many parts, its capabilities and potential increased a thousandfold.

[CrutchCricket]

Icharas wrote...
Missing the point. With Skynet I don't mean the created rebelling against their creators but the created winning against their creators. The reapers harvest us every 50,000 years for this very reason. To stop us from creating synthetics who can actually destroy us. I really think the Metacon War is a great example. You see, the Protheans (or another civilization of their time) had just created an organic race which was just not powerful enough to overthrow the organic Protheans. It was just then when the vanguard of their destruction awoke and realized that organic life would have created even more powerful synthetics by the time it awoke again. Accordingly, in order to 'save' organic life from being destroyed, the harvest began.

As long as the cycle continued, the Reapers prevented Skynet. Now, since the Reapers are gone, it is inevitable.

On the contrary, the point is quite clear. The Protheans were winning without Reaper intervention. Had the Reapers not shown up they would've destroyed the synthetics and given their prejudices likely never created them again.

The "problem" is a lie and hardly inevitable.

I was also writing a giant ass reply to your other points and it was around the 50th paragraph (slight exaggeration) that I realized we're arguing the same thing and I've already said much the same thing in reply to obZen DF:

Before the disconnect Commander will make an effort to be beneficial to organics much like Dr Manhattan tries to be. But the disconnect is inevitable and once reached, it will stop noticing us/ just leave.

[obZen DF]

CrutchCricket wrote...

obZen DF wrote...
@Cricketycricket: Yes, that's a good point you got there, about Commander not necessarily needing us. I overlooked that fact. But I truly think that Commander will do something to improve organics. Maybe only in it's beginning stage, right after everything is rebuild. That it needs to 'grow' into the system or something. And because of Shepard's persona, and taking into account Dr. Manhatten's way to help  improve technology for the army and such. And indeed, after awhile, it persues new goals beyond our comprehension. Isn't that what you said in the Control explained thread? But, where I'm trying to go to, is the amount of time before that happens. And how it will happen. Commander is centered on the Citadel right? So, what will happen if it decides to go to another galaxy, for instance? I'm pretty interested in how other people think about that and come to a certain hypothesis.

My brain is not really helping me out tonight haha. Can't think straight.

Yes before the disconnect Commander's presence will have some beneficial effects although if we follow the Watchmen model exactly it might also lead to rising tensions and the brink of total annihilation (for example if it favored humans because Shepard was human). The theme of technology unearned is also huge in ME so I don't think Commander will be very forthcoming with the advancements. But yes expecting some improvements makes sense.
And I have no idea how long it would be before the disconnect. Could be a few years, could be centuries. Although going by the post I linked to recently in my Control Explained thread it should be much faster than that, almost instantaneous. But given the epilogue, I suppose we must assume some significant time passes before indifference sets in.

As for how it will leave, there you have to go full headcanon. For myself I invision that Commander immediately (i.e. as soon as it assumes control) deletes or absorbs every Reaper consciousness and installs itself in the shells. It then removes itself from the Citadel (perhaps leaving some a guardian program of some sort behind) but not before trashing the Crucible docking mechanism so none may override its control. It is now free, one entity composed of many parts, its capabilities and potential increased a thousandfold.

Well, I go on vacation in a few hours, so I'm in the airplane for quite some time. Good time to start a headcanon.
So, I'll be off for 8 days.
See ya.

[R3MUS]

The control ending is the best ending. Hands down. I love it. Destroy is so selfish. Control is sacrificing yourself to save the many.

Best quote in the entire Mass Effect trilogy "The man who gave up his life to become the one who could save the many". Right when they put up Shepards name on the memorial wall. So beautiful. You know, this is what my Shepard was all about. He would sacrifice himself to save everyone else. He would do so without a second thought. Not destroying the entire Geth race he once fought to save and make peace with the Quarians. Or not destroying EDI, Jokers love. My Shepard was not selfish. He would give up his life to save the entire Galaxy.

[Seival]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

These banners are AWESOME! Really appreciate them. And through it I discovered that there is a Renegade Control Ending. Wow! This is really great and well thought from Bioware.

Thanks

...I'll make even more banners, when I'll have time.

...By the way. Renegade version of Control even has two sub-versions as far as I remember. They depend on if your Shepard cured the Krogan or not. Not sure if Paragon version also has two sub-versions though.

Modifié par Seival, 12 juillet 2012 - 10:41 .

[Icharas]

CrutchCricket wrote...
I was also writing a giant ass reply to your other points and it was around the 50th paragraph (slight exaggeration) that I realized we're arguing the same thing [...]

I was going to say the same

->

CrutchCricket wrote... 
As for how it will leave, there you have to go full headcanon. For myself I invision that Commander immediately (i.e. as soon as it assumes control) deletes or absorbs every Reaper consciousness and installs itself in the shells. It then removes itself from the Citadel (perhaps leaving some a guardian program of some sort behind) but not before trashing the Crucible docking mechanism so none may override its control. It is now free, one entity composed of many parts, its capabilities and potential increased a thousandfold.

Pretty much my point. It will pursue other goals eventually, I just assume there will be some sort of guardian program. As I believe it to have the highest processing power, I suppose it will keep the Citadel as its CPU. Accordingly, even if it ignores any form of life crawling around in the citadel, it will devote some resources (probably in reaper form) to keep the citadel (and its population as a sideline) safe. Although it doesn't necessarily require the citadel, it can't hurt to have it... And as instant communications is possible, it really doesn't matter where its parts are.

 CrutchCricket wrote... 

 Icharas wrote... 
Missing the point. With Skynet I don't mean the created rebelling against their creators but the created winning against their creators. The reapers harvest us every 50,000 years for this very reason. To stop us from creating synthetics who can actually destroy us. I really think the Metacon War is a great example. You see, the Protheans (or another civilization of their time) had just created an organic race which was just not powerful enough to overthrow the organic Protheans. It was just then when the vanguard of their destruction awoke and realized that organic life would have created even more powerful synthetics by the time it awoke again. Accordingly, in order to 'save' organic life from being destroyed, the harvest began.

As long as the cycle continued, the Reapers prevented Skynet. Now, since the Reapers are gone, it is inevitable.

On the contrary, the point is quite clear. The Protheans were winning without Reaper intervention. Had the Reapers not shown up they would've destroyed the synthetics and given their prejudices likely never created them again.

The "problem" is a lie and hardly inevitable.

 

Now this is where we have a problem.
I agree their experience with synthetics would stall any experiments on creating synthetics for some time, maybe even millennia. But eventually, someone would likely come up with it again, for whichever intentions.





Oh and by the way: I forgot who created the banners, but they're great. Keep up the good work!

Modifié par Icharas, 12 juillet 2012 - 12:24 .

[CrutchCricket]

Icharas wrote...
Pretty much my point. It will pursue other goals eventually, I just assume there will be some sort of guardian program. As I believe it to have the highest processing power, I suppose it will keep the Citadel as its CPU. Accordingly, even if it ignores any form of life crawling around in the citadel, it will devote some resources (probably in reaper form) to keep the citadel (and its population as a sideline) safe. Although it doesn't necessarily require the citadel, it can't hurt to have it... And as instant communications is possible, it really doesn't matter where its parts are.

Ah. Not exactly how I meant that. For me the guardian program is left behind to ensure no one tampers with the Citadel in an effort against Commander. Though I suppose it's not a stretch to also imagine it there to prevent silly organics from blowing up their own dumb asses. So yes I can agree that such a program would also monitor civilization and try to steer it clear of danger. Come to think of it, I had a similar idea earlier anyway. But that one also involved Liara.

We have reached consensus.

Now this is where we have a problem.
I agree their experience with synthetics would stall any experiments on creating synthetics for some time, maybe even millennia. But eventually, someone would likely come up with it again, for whichever intentions.

OK but honestly on the scales you're talking about the whole thing becomes kind of ridiculous. If you have to resort to, "given eternity, x will happen" then there really is no point in even formulating it. Given eternity an asteroid will strike one particular planet. Great, so what, we're going to destroy all asteroids because given eternity everything can happen?
Given eternity our whole galaxy might be destroyed through some other cosmic cataclysm (dark eneregy?) before the rise of Skynet. You're saying it's as inevitable as entropy? Well if that's the case, there's no use going on about it because a) you can't stop it anyway and I doubt any of us, including nigh-eternal beings like the Reapers will have to worry about it.

[Seival]

CrutchCricket wrote...

obZen DF wrote...
@Cricketycricket: Yes, that's a good point you got there, about Commander not necessarily needing us. I overlooked that fact. But I truly think that Commander will do something to improve organics. Maybe only in it's beginning stage, right after everything is rebuild. That it needs to 'grow' into the system or something. And because of Shepard's persona, and taking into account Dr. Manhatten's way to help  improve technology for the army and such. And indeed, after awhile, it persues new goals beyond our comprehension. Isn't that what you said in the Control explained thread? But, where I'm trying to go to, is the amount of time before that happens. And how it will happen. Commander is centered on the Citadel right? So, what will happen if it decides to go to another galaxy, for instance? I'm pretty interested in how other people think about that and come to a certain hypothesis.

My brain is not really helping me out tonight haha. Can't think straight.

Yes before the disconnect Commander's presence will have some beneficial effects although if we follow the Watchmen model exactly it might also lead to rising tensions and the brink of total annihilation (for example if it favored humans because Shepard was human). The theme of technology unearned is also huge in ME so I don't think Commander will be very forthcoming with the advancements. But yes expecting some improvements makes sense.
And I have no idea how long it would be before the disconnect. Could be a few years, could be centuries. Although going by the post I linked to recently in my Control Explained thread it should be much faster than that, almost instantaneous. But given the epilogue, I suppose we must assume some significant time passes before indifference sets in.

As for how it will leave, there you have to go full headcanon. For myself I invision that Commander immediately (i.e. as soon as it assumes control) deletes or absorbs every Reaper consciousness and installs itself in the shells. It then removes itself from the Citadel (perhaps leaving some a guardian program of some sort behind) but not before trashing the Crucible docking mechanism so none may override its control. It is now free, one entity composed of many parts, its capabilities and potential increased a thousandfold.

Interesting thoughts on self-defending after becoming the new Catalist. But I don't think it's really needed. Only Catalist itself can give permission for Control. Catalist can't be hacked no matter how advanced a hacker is. And the Catalist already "resides" in each Reaper. Its the Reapers' collective mind. All Reapers, Citadel, and I think that even all Mass Relayes are different parts of the same enormous creature, and the Catalist is the brain of this creature. Each Reaper can be used as the Catalist's backup.

...Also I disagree that Shepard-Catalist will not be interested in Galactic Civilization after some time. AIs can't become bored. And the Catalist has enough processing power and Mobile Platforms to perform tasks both for Galactic Civilization and for its own (exploring some other galaxy for example). But I'm sure Shepard-Catalist will be involved only in some major activities. It will not bother to resolve some minor problems.