4520 réponses à ce sujet

[CrutchCricket]

estebanus wrote...
Because the decision to make this entity was made by a human?

Yes and...?

[Bocks]

Just like in synthesis, you're forcing a decision onto the galaxy. Everyone expects the Reapers to be annihilated, and hence destroy is the main decision that everyone prefers.

[Ageless Face]

... And destroy doesn't force itself on the galaxy...?

The only choice that doesn't force anyone is refuse. And well... We all know how that ended.

[Bocks]

HagarIshay wrote...

... And destroy doesn't force itself on the galaxy...?

The only choice that doesn't force anyone is refuse. And well... We all know how that ended.

Do you remember what everyone expected the Crucible to do?

Destroy the Reapers.

[Ageless Face]

By everyone you mean everyone who knew about the Crucible? Which weren't everyone in the galaxy? I call that a forced choice on people who didn't know. They might wanted it, but hey, forced is forced.

And you do realise that the people who did knew about the Crucible and thought it will destroy the reapers didn't expect all the synthetics to go down with the reapers? And if killing all the synthetics doesn't equal to forcing the galaxy then tell me what you call forcing.

[MegaSovereign]

Bocks wrote...

Just like in synthesis, you're forcing a decision onto the galaxy. Everyone expects the Reapers to be annihilated, and hence destroy is the main decision that everyone prefers.

No actually, everyone *expected* the worst.

Besides, I saw happy soldiers in the Control ending as they saw the Reapers leave their home system.

[Ericus]

Bocks wrote...

Just like in synthesis, you're forcing a decision onto the galaxy. Everyone expects the Reapers to be annihilated, and hence destroy is the main decision that everyone prefers.

Paragon-Control, by it's nature, wouldn't be forcing anything on anyone.  Unless of course you consider repairing the Mass Relays and destroyed cities 'forcing'.  Paragon Shepard wouldn't let the Reapers dictate anyone's future.  Might allow the use of Reapers as a defense force at the request of the Council I suppose, but that's probably the limit.

Renegade-Control, well, there you might have something...

[CroGamer002]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Bocks wrote...

Just like in synthesis, you're forcing a decision onto the galaxy. Everyone expects the Reapers to be annihilated, and hence destroy is the main decision that everyone prefers.

No actually, everyone *expected* the worst.

Besides, I saw happy soldiers in the Control ending as they saw the Reapers leave their home system.

While on Synthesis, they always look sad.

[CroGamer002]

I was reading posts from 3 days ago and I'll have to say this:

Control>Refuse>Destroy

NEVER SYNTHESIS!
No, I refuse to even look at that ending on Youtube again!


And I was looking at my 13 Shep's and none of them would choose that thing.
Most would go for Control, some Destroy, maybe one for Refuse.
None Synthesis.

[DirtyPhoenix]

ignore

Modifié par pirate1802, 23 juillet 2012 - 06:59 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Mesina2 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Bocks wrote...

Just like in synthesis, you're forcing a decision onto the galaxy. Everyone expects the Reapers to be annihilated, and hence destroy is the main decision that everyone prefers.

No actually, everyone *expected* the worst.

Besides, I saw happy soldiers in the Control ending as they saw the Reapers leave their home system.

While on Synthesis, they always look confused.

Fixed!

Bocks wrote...
Just like in synthesis, you're forcing a
decision onto the galaxy. Everyone expects the Reapers to be
annihilated, and hence destroy is the main decision that everyone
prefers.

Everyone? -___-

Bocks wrote..

Do you remember what everyone expected the Crucible to do?
Destroy the Reapers.

It was also not expected to exterminate an entire race. It was also not expected that the catalyst would turn out to be a holokid who would give you three instead of a single way to end the war. Any wise Shepard would take new situation into account rather than hiding behind what he is "expected" to do, or what his papa Anderson told him to do.

Each decision forces something on the galaxy, destroy included. Except maybe refuse, because there is no galaxy left to force on LOL.

Modifié par pirate1802, 23 juillet 2012 - 07:03 .

[Clayless]

I have noticed about this thread that there always seems to be Destoyers coming in and trying to justify their decision.

Anyway I never picked Control, a Synthesis guy here, but Control is definately my second favourite ending and the one with the most awesome narrator.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Because I am not a moral relativist. Some things are objectively good or evil. And there are a few phrases in the description that are worrying. Control's outcome hinges on the continuing goodness and sanity of one entity. I wouldn't give a human that kind of power, let alone an AI.

I disagree about the objective morality. Morality is nothing without context, and being a human is a context. Human morality is structured in a certain way because we're a hypersocial species whose primary evolutionary advantage is our extremely developed ability to co-operate. No other known species develops so complex social interdependencies. Hive-mind species like the Rachni would develop a completely different morality, though with some overlap.

As for Control, I would rather give an AI such power than a human. The reason why autocrats aren't liked in many human cultures is that (a) their rule is never impartial and ( they are usually backed by interest groups who expect privileges. The Control entity wouldn't have that problem. 

[DirtyPhoenix]

I find paragon control to be the second-best ending after synthesis (according to me). Renegade control, however I think is quite scary. When my reapershepard was talking of how she will lead an army none would dare oppose I wished I'd selected destroy.

[CroGamer002]

@Arcian

To me, picking Synthesis is pretty much killing everyone. But in the sense that they're not longer what they were before.

And it doesn't effect just trillions of space crafting lives, but everyone and everything in Milky Way.



NO!
DAMN!
WAY!


Give me liberty, or give me death.
That's how I go with Refuse, while Destroy is hypocritical since it only hurts synthetics.


And this advantages that Synthesis gives?
Lost knowledge? Let scientists and explores rediscover them on their own.
Immortal life? Too dangerous if unchecked( from individual crimes to overpopulation problems).
Peaceful coexistence? It should be earned by tolerance, not being forced to be changed "for the greater good".
Understand synthetics? Neat, but it should be an individual choice. You don't have to understand them to at least tolerate coexistence with them.

Modifié par Mesina2, 23 juillet 2012 - 09:27 .

[Ranger Jack Walker]

And you wold force that decision on others? That's hypocritical of you.

I'm sure that most of the galaxy would prefer to live.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Mesina2 wrote...

To me, picking Synthesis is pretty much killing everyone. But in the sense that they're not longer what they were before.

Miranda has her DNA played around with, is she no longer human?

And it doesn't effect just trillions of space crafting lives, but everyone and everything in Milky Way.

Whatever you choose affects the whole galaxy either way.

And this advantages that Synthesis gives?
Lost knowledge? Let scientists and explores rediscover them on their own.
Immortal life? Too dangerous if unchecked( from individual crimes to overpopulation problems).
Peaceful coexistence? It should be earned by tolerance, not being forced to be changed "for the greater good".
Understand synthetics? Neat, but it should be an individual choice. You don't have to understand them to at least tolerate coexistence with them.

As society evolves, new challenges arise and we find a way around old ones. In the past people feared about a lot of things that turned out to be baseless. My old grandmother says playing videogames make one go insane.

Modifié par pirate1802, 23 juillet 2012 - 10:01 .

[CroGamer002]

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

And you wold force that decision on others? That's hypocritical of you.

I'm sure that most of the galaxy would prefer to live.

Difference is that nobody is changed nor killed with that choice( besides Shepard, but that's his/hers choice) while conflicts are just no longer possible to be resolved in convectional wars.


Is this still hypocritical?
Maybe.

At least will limit casualties of conflicts drastically, will not force anyone to be changed and still open new and lost knowledge to be spread.

Modifié par Mesina2, 23 juillet 2012 - 10:00 .

[CroGamer002]

pirate1802 wrote...

Miranda has her DNA played around with, is she no longer human?

Didn't said you stopped being human.
I said you stopped being who you were before.

And even then, what was done to Miranda was wrong.
She hates what was done to her, but had to dealt with it and put it to good use at least.

Whatever you choose affects the whole galaxy either way.

I'm not changing anyone forcibly in other endings to something else.

As society evolves, new challenges arise and we find a way around old ones. My old grandmother says videogames make one go insane.

If everyone get's everything and everyone is peaceful, where would new challenges come?
From other galaxy?


And your example doesn't even ad up.
Were you forced to play video games?
Were you forced to like them?
Were people elsewhere also forced with both?


No, you all choose to try video games.
Some liked them, some don't.


And your grandmother is just ignorant on sobject of video games, just like her grandmother was probably like that with radio or TV or new music.
It's just a generations clash.
Happens every time and it will with our generation against future one in following decades.

[SkreeMalicious]

when i was watching the control ending i was thinking, YEA NOW I CONTROL EM, IM GONNA FLY THEM INTO THE SUN!!! Lol Screw you Starchild

[SkreeMalicious]

oh and the Refuse ending was weak as balls. 'So Be It, the cycles will continue' *roll credits*
*5 second liara speech*
end

ummm okay, how about what happens in this ending, needed some extra cut scenes.

[Seival]

Bocks wrote...

And yet you avoid actually killing the Reapers, bringing justice not only to the people who died in the war against the Reapers in this cycle, but all the previous cycles. It doesn't matter if the Reapers did it because they thought it was right.

And unlike you may think, my opinion is not short-sighted or fear-mongering, it's just, correct and the humane decision that brings peace to billions, if not trillions of people throughout countless millions of years. It's the choice that makes people stop living in fear of the Reapers, regardless of wether or not you intend harm through their use. Using the Reapers to help rebuild is completely wrong, using them at all -even beneficially- is incorrect. The Galaxy has to learn to develop and improve without the Reapers. It has to abandon their existance for it to truly thrive and to understand the lessons learned in the war.

tl;dr: You can sugarcoat it, but it's objectively morally wrong.

By your logic we also need to kill all Turians for the crimes of First Contact War and helping to spread the Genophage, all Krogan for meteor-bombardments during the Krogan Rebellions, all Salarians for developing the Genophage, etc... 

...Justice must not conflict with sanity. All those races did something very bad in the past, but now they are our allies. And without their help the victory would be impossible. "There is wisdom in harnessing the strengths of your enemy". I hope you understand these words now.

Modifié par Seival, 23 juillet 2012 - 10:45 .

[Rovay]

SkreeMalicious wrote...

oh and the Refuse ending was weak as balls. 'So Be It, the cycles will continue' *roll credits*
*5 second liara speech*
end

ummm okay, how about what happens in this ending, needed some extra cut scenes.

I don't think people would appreciate all that hard work going into those beautiful cutscenes if they were showing everything you fought for being utterly anihilated just because you refused to stop the Reapers when you could due to some kind of moral code or principles.