4520 réponses à ce sujet

[Ageless Face]

Seival wrote...
Well, I think Refusers should understand that by Refusal they allow Galactic Civilization to be submitted to the Reapers literally, not in "some hypothetical way". And only Shepard will probably die free in this case - already critically wounded, and have a pistol to "finish the job". Everyone else will be harvested by the Reapers in regular way. My opinion is that Refusal is commiting the genocide of the entire Galactic Civilization.

...Moreover, I think Refusal is the logical reason for the original Catalist to make sure noone will be able to use Crucible or anything similar again.

On that I will agree. While what refuse stands for sound very appealing, I will never ever agree with picking it, especially with metagaming. Too many lives are lost when it could all just end happily now. And while I don't believe people had any bad intention by picking it, I don't see anything good about it. in a pratical manner that is.

The next cycle might win conventually. This cycle obviously had no chance to do so, with all the stupidity over those three years (who is more stupid, the council, TIM, the Alliance, All the other goverments in the galaxy, Shepard...?). But next cycles, if they will listen to Liara's time capsule (which was heavily implied they did), they might be smart enough to raise the galaxy to fight the Reapers. Unless we go with BioWare, the galaxy used built the Crucible and fired it. But I prefer to ignore this, refuse is bad enough without adding a middle finger to it (and no, I don't believe refuse now is a middle finger, it's just a realistic ending).

[Seival]

HagarIshay wrote...

Seival wrote...
Well, I think Refusers should understand that by Refusal they allow Galactic Civilization to be submitted to the Reapers literally, not in "some hypothetical way". And only Shepard will probably die free in this case - already critically wounded, and have a pistol to "finish the job". Everyone else will be harvested by the Reapers in regular way. My opinion is that Refusal is commiting the genocide of the entire Galactic Civilization.

...Moreover, I think Refusal is the logical reason for the original Catalist to make sure noone will be able to use Crucible or anything similar again.

On that I will agree. While what refuse stands for sound very appealing, I will never ever agree with picking it, especially with metagaming. Too many lives are lost when it could all just end happily now. And while I don't believe people had any bad intention by picking it, I don't see anything good about it. in a pratical manner that is.

The next cycle might win conventually. This cycle obviously had no chance to do so, with all the stupidity over those three years (who is more stupid, the council, TIM, the Alliance, All the other goverments in the galaxy, Shepard...?). But next cycles, if they will listen to Liara's time capsule (which was heavily implied they did), they might be smart enough to raise the galaxy to fight the Reapers. Unless we go with BioWare, the galaxy used built the Crucible and fired it. But I prefer to ignore this, refuse is bad enough without adding a middle finger to it (and no, I don't believe refuse now is a middle finger, it's just a realistic ending).

Subsequent cycles might "win" conventionally only if they will somehow become as advanced technologically, as the Reapers themselves. Do you really think the original Catalist will allow that?...

...And more importantly, we have a tricky part here. Becoming "as advanced as the Reapers" means using the same technologies the same way. So, I'm afraid that in fight between Reapers and Reapers there will be only one winner - the Catalyst.

...I have some interesting thoughts about The Reapers. I believe they can overcome EVERYTHING even their own death. The more advanced you are technologically, the easier it will be to harvest you (remember Protheans?) If you Control them, they continue existing, but become guided by your own Catalyst with its own thoughts on how to protect lesser races. If you Destroy them, they become a "ground" for Galactic Civilization to grow on, which will only lead to the Reapers' resurrection eventually. If you Synthesise, then they literally start to live inside each living being, balancing differences between organics and synthetics. Either way - The Reapers will continue to be "a solution". And it's up to you, what exactly this solution will be: Guarding, or Dictating, or Balancing, or Harvesting.

...Also some interesting thoughts. The Reapers are not just "advanced warships and hasks". The Reapers are Nano-Tech, which organize the surrounding materials to have specific half-organic-half-synthetic forms. Nano-Tech, which has one collective mind - The Catalyst. Living, thinking being consisting of trillions of microscopical formations, mixed with harvested material, and shaped in forms of Warships and Hasks... I think it's a good basis for a new story in ME Universe

Modifié par Seival, 04 août 2012 - 11:23 .

[Ericus]

pirate1802 wrote...

Ericus wrote...

I find it interesting that Destroyers often say the whole point of the game is to 'kill' the Reapers.  I always thought the point was to 'stop' the Reapers, or more specifically, to stop them from reaping all advanced civilizations.  How each player (and their Shepard) defines the goal is really important here.  If the goal is to kill, then I understand why somebody would pick Destroy.  But from my perspective that was never the real goal, and that makes the other options (except Refuse) viable.

Yes that is true. And the ONLY reason they say kill the reapers is because the other options (control, synthesis) were not foreshadowed properly. They were literally dropped on our head at the last moment. We didn't even know other options existed except for the last moment.

So, think of it like this: You are told that a man has this very dangerous form of contageous disease. And the only way to stop it from spreading is to kill the man through a deadly injection. But when you reach the man with the toxin, he tells you there are ways to cure the disease without killing him. Because we didn't know he the disease could be cured without killing him, you were ordered to kill him. But now that you know it is possible, would you explore the other alternatives? Or would you go ahead with killing the man, because you were ordered to do so based on an inaccurate assumption?

Hope I made sense

Yes, that makes sense.  I completely agree that Synthesis came virtually out of nowhere.  Control was weakly forshadowed (compared to Destroy) through TIM's efforts, and I'd argue even Saren's naive efforts to influence Sovereign.  

That said, even by the end of ME1, I still didn't think the goal would be to kill the Reapers.  If the entire Alliance fleet barely managed to take out one Reaper, how could mere mortals hope to take on an entire armada?  And from a metagaming perspective, I was expecting a non-conventional sci-fi victory from Bioware.

[Ericus]

Seival wrote...

...I have some interesting thoughts about The Reapers. I believe they can overcome EVERYTHING even their own death. The more advanced you are technologically, the easier it will be to harvest you (remember Protheans?) If you Control them, they continue existing, but become guided by your own Catalyst with its own thoughts on how to protect lesser races. If you Destroy them, they become a "ground" for Galactic Civilization to grow on, which will only lead to the Reapers' resurrection eventually. If you Synthesise, then they literally start to live inside each living being, balancing differences between organics and synthetics. Either way - The Reapers will continue to be "a solution". And it's up to you, what exactly this solution will be: Guarding, or Dictating, or Balancing, or Harvesting.

Interesting thought.  In that case, you can see where the Catalyst would find any of the three options offered to Shepard acceptable.  They continue to offer a Reaper-based solution, but change the parameters of how it will be achieved.  And most of the Reapers do seem to lack a sense of identity, so they probably wouldn't fear 'death' in the conventional sense.  But I do wonder what a few of the more 'evolved' Reapers (like Harbinger) might think?  Given they appear to have some semblence of 'self', would they fight to survive?

[Seival]

Ericus wrote...

Seival wrote...

...I have some interesting thoughts about The Reapers. I believe they can overcome EVERYTHING even their own death. The more advanced you are technologically, the easier it will be to harvest you (remember Protheans?) If you Control them, they continue existing, but become guided by your own Catalyst with its own thoughts on how to protect lesser races. If you Destroy them, they become a "ground" for Galactic Civilization to grow on, which will only lead to the Reapers' resurrection eventually. If you Synthesise, then they literally start to live inside each living being, balancing differences between organics and synthetics. Either way - The Reapers will continue to be "a solution". And it's up to you, what exactly this solution will be: Guarding, or Dictating, or Balancing, or Harvesting.

Interesting thought.  In that case, you can see where the Catalyst would find any of the three options offered to Shepard acceptable.  They continue to offer a Reaper-based solution, but change the parameters of how it will be achieved.  And most of the Reapers do seem to lack a sense of identity, so they probably wouldn't fear 'death' in the conventional sense.  But I do wonder what a few of the more 'evolved' Reapers (like Harbinger) might think?  Given they appear to have some semblence of 'self', would they fight to survive?

Maybe. We might find more info on the matter in Leviathan DLC I think. And I don't think the Catalyst, or any unique Reaper (like Nazara or Harbinger) can experience fear. Their minds are synthetic in nature. Synthetics can disapprove your attempts to kill them, but they will never fear anything.

[Ericus]

Seival wrote...

Ericus wrote...

Seival wrote...

...I have some interesting thoughts about The Reapers. I believe they can overcome EVERYTHING even their own death. The more advanced you are technologically, the easier it will be to harvest you (remember Protheans?) If you Control them, they continue existing, but become guided by your own Catalyst with its own thoughts on how to protect lesser races. If you Destroy them, they become a "ground" for Galactic Civilization to grow on, which will only lead to the Reapers' resurrection eventually. If you Synthesise, then they literally start to live inside each living being, balancing differences between organics and synthetics. Either way - The Reapers will continue to be "a solution". And it's up to you, what exactly this solution will be: Guarding, or Dictating, or Balancing, or Harvesting.

Interesting thought.  In that case, you can see where the Catalyst would find any of the three options offered to Shepard acceptable.  They continue to offer a Reaper-based solution, but change the parameters of how it will be achieved.  And most of the Reapers do seem to lack a sense of identity, so they probably wouldn't fear 'death' in the conventional sense.  But I do wonder what a few of the more 'evolved' Reapers (like Harbinger) might think?  Given they appear to have some semblence of 'self', would they fight to survive?

Maybe. We might find more info on the matter in Leviathan DLC I think. And I don't think the Catalyst, or any unique Reaper (like Nazara or Harbinger) can experience fear. Their minds are synthetic in nature. Synthetics can disapprove your attempts to kill them, but they will never fear anything.

Being a combination of synthetic and organic might produce some unknown reactions/emotions.  Harbinger does express low-key emotions like annoyance.  Neither Naraza or Harbinger express fear at any point during the series, so I agree that seems an unlikely reaction.  But it is possible that they could experience an 'attachment' to their current state of being.  

Definitely looking forward to what we learn from Leviathan.  

[DirtyPhoenix]

Was that Harbinger's voice I heard at the end of that DLC? O.o I know all reapers sound sorta-similar but...

[Seival]

pirate1802 wrote...

Was that Harbinger's voice I heard at the end of that DLC? O.o I know all reapers sound sorta-similar but...

I think that was the Leviathan's voice

[Ageless Face]

pirate1802 wrote...

Was that Harbinger's voice I heard at the end of that DLC? O.o I know all reapers sound sorta-similar but...

Nope. 

Harbinger

Reaper (possibly Leviathan) 

Not the same Reaper at all.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 05 août 2012 - 01:27 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Oh man.. wishful thinking. I really missed Harby. :/

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

TheStupidJellyFish wrote...

After viewing all the endings I can't bring myself to side with Control or Synthesis. The fact that they're made out to be the "better" choices doesn't make sense to me.

Which is what I do not get.

How is control potrayed as more positive than destroy? The destroy epilogue also has a sense of hope.

Only synthesis is potrayed as sugar-sweet to the point one get diabetes just watching it.

But both control and destroy are balanced in their potrayel, hell even refuse ends on a bittersweet note with the stargazer scene.

The only ending that is potrayed as negative is low EMS destroy.

[Ageless Face]

pirate1802 wrote...

Oh man.. wishful thinking. I really missed Harby. :/

Who knows? Maybe Leviathan will somewhow surpress his Reaper evil brother and be even more awesome... Yeah right.




Anyone else wonders if Leviathan is a Reaper Whale?

[estebanus]

HagarIshay wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Oh man.. wishful thinking. I really missed Harby. :/

Who knows? Maybe Leviathan will somewhow surpress his Reaper evil brother and be even more awesome... Yeah right.




Anyone else wonders if Leviathan is a Reaper Whale?

MASSIVE SPOILER AHEAD. DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANNA KNOW.















He isn't.

[RavenEyry]

Lizardviking wrote...

How is control potrayed as more positive than destroy? The destroy epilogue also has a sense of hope.

Only synthesis is potrayed as sugar-sweet to the point one get diabetes just watching it.

But both control and destroy are balanced in their potrayel, hell even refuse ends on a bittersweet note with the stargazer scene.

I found control more creepy than hopeful.

[Ageless Face]

estebanus wrote...
MASSIVE SPOILER AHEAD. DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANNA KNOW.















He isn't.

Oh man, such a missed potential. It would have been awesome... Hey I would also explain why he went rouge. Because Whales aren't advanced species and his creation violates the Reaper's rule.

Damn it, I WANT WHALES!!!!!!

[RavenEyry]

HagarIshay wrote...
Damn it, I WANT WHALES!!!!!!

Coming soon in Mass Effect 4: The Voyage Home.

[estebanus]

HagarIshay wrote...

estebanus wrote...
MASSIVE SPOILER AHEAD. DON'T READ IF YOU DON'T WANNA KNOW.















He isn't.

Oh man, such a missed potential. It would have been awesome... Hey I would also explain why he went rouge. Because Whales aren't advanced species and his creation violates the Reaper's rule.

Damn it, I WANT WHALES!!!!!!

Well, so much for diversity among the reapers. Really, why do they all look like cuttlefish?!

Modifié par estebanus, 05 août 2012 - 01:55 .

[RavenEyry]

estebanus wrote...

Well, so much for diversity among the reapers. Really, why do they all look like cuttlefish?!

Because that's what they look like. They had to look like something.

[estebanus]

RavenEyry wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Well, so much for diversity among the reapers. Really, why do they all look like cuttlefish?!

Because that's what they look like. They had to look like something.

Silly retcon. Well, at least I have those pics from ME2 where there are many different reapers.

[RavenEyry]

estebanus wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Well, so much for diversity among the reapers. Really, why do they all look like cuttlefish?!

Because that's what they look like. They had to look like something.

Silly retcon. Well, at least I have those pics from ME2 where there are many different reapers.

Many different reapers that still looked like cuttlefish. I don't get why people get so worked up about it.

[estebanus]

RavenEyry wrote...

estebanus wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

estebanus wrote...

Well, so much for diversity among the reapers. Really, why do they all look like cuttlefish?!

Because that's what they look like. They had to look like something.

Silly retcon. Well, at least I have those pics from ME2 where there are many different reapers.

Many different reapers that still looked like cuttlefish. I don't get why people get so worked up about it.

They didn't look like cuttlefish, but meh, doesn't matter, I guess.

[RavenEyry]

estebanus wrote...
They didn't look like cuttlefish, but meh, doesn't matter, I guess.

If the ones in 2 didn't look like cuttlefish then the ones in 3 didn't look like cuttlefish.

[DirtyPhoenix]

TheStupidJellyFish wrote...

Which is what I do not get.

How is control potrayed as more positive than destroy? The destroy epilogue also has a sense of hope.

Only synthesis is potrayed as sugar-sweet to the point one get diabetes just watching it.

But both control and destroy are balanced in their potrayel, hell even refuse ends on a bittersweet note with the stargazer scene.

The only ending that is potrayed as negative is low EMS destroy.

The process of synthesis itself represents the biggest drawback in synthesis. Ask people what they don't like in synthesis, they'd tell you. The sugar-sweet feeling also leads some to believe everyone is indoctrinated.

[Dwailing]

RavenEyry wrote...

estebanus wrote...
They didn't look like cuttlefish, but meh, doesn't matter, I guess.

If the ones in 2 didn't look like cuttlefish then the ones in 3 didn't look like cuttlefish.

Not all of them bore the same uncanny similarity to cuttlefish that the Reapers in 1 and 3 had.  However, all the different types of Reaper resembled cuttlefish if only just in basic shape.

[RavenEyry]

Dwailing wrote...
Not all of them bore the same uncanny similarity to cuttlefish that the Reapers in 1 and 3 had.  However, all the different types of Reaper resembled cuttlefish if only just in basic shape.

That's my point. Loads of people act like the reapers in 2 were wildly and amazingly different when I really can't see it.