4520 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

@pirate1802

Seival wrote...

Nice Synthesis banner you have by the way. Do you think Shepard VI can also become alive in Case of Synthesis?

...And what if all VIs will become alive in case of Synthesis? Who will keep them under control?

Modifié par Seival, 12 août 2012 - 05:17 .

[JunMadine]

Seival wrote...

@pirate1802

Seival wrote...

Nice Synthesis banner you have by the way. Do you think Shepard VI can also become alive in Case of Synthesis?

...And what if all VIs will become alive in case of Synthesis? Who will keep them under control?

I wondered about that myself.  If the greybox Keiji is alive (personally find that creepy) why not Avina?

[Seival]

JunMadine wrote...

Seival wrote...

@pirate1802

Seival wrote...

Nice Synthesis banner you have by the way. Do you think Shepard VI can also become alive in Case of Synthesis?

...And what if all VIs will become alive in case of Synthesis? Who will keep them under control?

I wondered about that myself.  If the greybox Keiji is alive (personally find that creepy) why not Avina?

...Plus all copies of Shepard VI. How many of them are there?... OMG it will be an army of Shepards!

Modifié par Seival, 12 août 2012 - 10:12 .

[Seival]

...They could found their own country.

[Seival]

By the way. One more interesting thing about Control which most people forgot about. Synthesis is still an available option, and Catalyst-Shepard could use it one day (if it will be really needed).

Modifié par Seival, 12 août 2012 - 10:45 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Seival wrote...

@pirate1802

Seival wrote...

Nice Synthesis banner you have by the way. Do you think Shepard VI can also become alive in Case of Synthesis?

...And what if all VIs will become alive in case of Synthesis? Who will keep them under control?

Thanks, its the first I've made
About VIs being alive, that is certainly a troubling implication. As for who'll keep them under control, I dunno.. who keeps us under control? Thats the point of synthesis, organics and synthetics would reach a mutual understanding of each other that'll prevent future conflict between them.

[JeffZero]

Oh man, pirate, I do dig your banner. I like it a lot more than the other Synthesis banners. That line... tears, so many tears.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Seival wrote...

By the way. One more interesting thing about Control which most people forgot about. Synthesis is still an available option, and Catalyst-Shepard could use it one day (if it will be really needed).

Teh original catalyst was hell-bent to solving the singularity problem, hence synthesis appealed to him. Does Shepard-catalyst think on similar lines? If he does, the he'll probably pick synthesis right away.

But yes, Shepard may also pick synthesis for other reasons, like I picked synthesis but I didn't buy that kid's circular logic. Also, he/she cannot do that by itself, they'll have to convince/indoctrinate people to build the crucible and dock it, then reach the decision chamber and jump. Indoctrinating would be easier than convincing, but then, indoctrinated people can't jump into the beam.

Convincing people may be very difficult. They'd probably not be welcoming to the idea of a giant reaper god asking if it can rewrite your DNA. I mean sure it is shepard's mental self, but that's what we know. Others may assume other things, they may not even trust the human Shepard as much as we did.

[someone else]

I am truly moved by the OP's vision of control, opening the way to a bright and limitless utopian future, however...

My Shep chose control to assure primacy of the human genotype throughout the galaxy, enforced by the irrestible might of the reapers.

Tim and Shepard are in agreement that plurality, diversity and democracy are ultimately unworkable in the long term - they have come to realize in order to interdict the emergence of a genocidal/psychopatic culture - synthetic or organic, there must be a single apex species possessing absolute power and authority - control is the means to that end, and will ensure a human hegemony and imperium on an galactic and eonic scale.

Point being: Your vision is only one possibility for control, and by no means the only viable one. Control enables outcomes which I suspect you would find "distasteful."

PS:  Javik applauds this outcome.

Modifié par someone else, 13 août 2012 - 04:05 .

[Seival]

pirate1802 wrote...

Seival wrote...

@pirate1802

Seival wrote...

Nice Synthesis banner you have by the way. Do you think Shepard VI can also become alive in Case of Synthesis?

...And what if all VIs will become alive in case of Synthesis? Who will keep them under control?

Thanks, its the first I've made
About VIs being alive, that is certainly a troubling implication. As for who'll keep them under control, I dunno.. who keeps us under control? Thats the point of synthesis, organics and synthetics would reach a mutual understanding of each other that'll prevent future conflict between them.

Well, an army of Paragon ex-VI Shepards is not a problem actually. But an army of Renegade ex-VI Shepards...

[BrookerT]

Seival wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

Seival wrote...

@pirate1802

Seival wrote...

Nice Synthesis banner you have by the way. Do you think Shepard VI can also become alive in Case of Synthesis?

...And what if all VIs will become alive in case of Synthesis? Who will keep them under control?

Thanks, its the first I've made
About VIs being alive, that is certainly a troubling implication. As for who'll keep them under control, I dunno.. who keeps us under control? Thats the point of synthesis, organics and synthetics would reach a mutual understanding of each other that'll prevent future conflict between them.

Well, an army of Paragon ex-VI Shepards is not a problem actually. But an army of Renegade ex-VI Shepards...

Drones with Caines will rule the world:o

[Seival]

pirate1802 wrote...

Seival wrote...

By the way. One more interesting thing about Control which most people forgot about. Synthesis is still an available option, and Catalyst-Shepard could use it one day (if it will be really needed).

Teh original catalyst was hell-bent to solving the singularity problem, hence synthesis appealed to him. Does Shepard-catalyst think on similar lines? If he does, the he'll probably pick synthesis right away.

But yes, Shepard may also pick synthesis for other reasons, like I picked synthesis but I didn't buy that kid's circular logic. Also, he/she cannot do that by itself, they'll have to convince/indoctrinate people to build the crucible and dock it, then reach the decision chamber and jump. Indoctrinating would be easier than convincing, but then, indoctrinated people can't jump into the beam.

Convincing people may be very difficult. They'd probably not be welcoming to the idea of a giant reaper god asking if it can rewrite your DNA. I mean sure it is shepard's mental self, but that's what we know. Others may assume other things, they may not even trust the human Shepard as much as we did.

Technical side of how Catalyst-Shepard can use Synthesis after Control is not actually very important (I don't think it will be risky). The most important part is that Catalyst-Shepard can actually explain Synthesis mechanics, and ask people if they want Synthesis or not. Catalyst-Shepard could also make some local variant of Synthesis if only a part of people will agree.

Modifié par Seival, 13 août 2012 - 10:52 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Seival wrote...

Well, an army of Paragon ex-VI Shepards is not a problem actually. But an army of Renegade ex-VI Shepards...

They'll be murderized by the paragon ones.

[Ericus]

someone else wrote...

I am truly moved by the OP's vision of control, opening the way to a bright and limitless utopian future, however...

My Shep chose control to assure primacy of the human genotype throughout the galaxy, enforced by the irrestible might of the reapers.

Tim and Shepard are in agreement that plurality, diversity and democracy are ultimately unworkable in the long term - they have come to realize in order to interdict the emergence of a genocidal/psychopatic culture - synthetic or organic, there must be a single apex species possessing absolute power and authority - control is the means to that end, and will ensure a human hegemony and imperium on an galactic and eonic scale.

Point being: Your vision is only one possibility for control, and by no means the only viable one. Control enables outcomes which I suspect you would find "distasteful."

PS:  Javik applauds this outcome.

This is part of why I like Control so much as an ending.  There are so many shades of grey in it, and the outcome really depends directly on the nature of each Shepard.  My Shepard was a paragon, so I envision him taking on the role of galactic guardian, but allowing minimal interference by the Reapers in day-to-day galactic affairs.  But the potential for that to change into something else is always present.

[someone else]

of course both control and synthesis are totalitarian outcomes - techno-pseudotheocracy on the one hand and imposed homogenization and uniformity on the other - "peaceful" solutions in both cases.

Destroy yields the only indeterminate outcome - if you admit the possibility of some higher order of being or perhaps a cosmic cycle of universal being and non-being, then indeterminacy provides the greatest potential experiential diversity - arguably a fundamental justification/motivation for creation in the first instance  - and control and synthesis are essentially satanic attempts at ego preservation or maintaining the continuity of consciousness in futile defiance of an inevitable entropic dissolution....

...just sayin'

PS dictatorship is OK by me, as long as it lasts and as long as i'm on top.

Modifié par someone else, 13 août 2012 - 01:50 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

..Synthesis doesn't result in homogenization. Well, maybe homogenization of man and machine, but the different races still maintain their separate identity.

[JeffZero]

End of the day, I support both. I've got Shepards going either way. Just none choosing Destroy. I'll eventually create one that would, but I don't have any on standby.

[someone else]

pirate1802 wrote...

..Synthesis doesn't result in homogenization. Well, maybe homogenization of man and machine, but the different races still maintain their separate identity.

No they don't - they share the same "dna" - to use BW's inaccurate characterization - the "races" are reduced to variants - much like dachshunds and St. Bernards'...the consolation being Shep and [fill in squaddie of your choice] can at last have progeny...talimancers rejoice.

Modifié par someone else, 13 août 2012 - 04:25 .

[SeptimusMagistos]

someone else wrote...

control and synthesis are essentially satanic attempts at ego preservation or maintaining the continuity of consciousness in futile defiance of an inevitable entropic dissolution....

...just sayin'

PS dictatorship is OK by me, as long as it lasts and as long as i'm on top.

So...putting off inevitable death, one day at a time?

Sounds good to me.

[someone else]

SeptimusMagistos wrote...

someone else wrote...

control and synthesis are essentially satanic attempts at ego preservation or maintaining the continuity of consciousness in futile defiance of an inevitable entropic dissolution....

...just sayin'

PS dictatorship is OK by me, as long as it lasts and as long as i'm on top.

So...putting off inevitable death, one day at a time?

Sounds good to me.

...or as someone else put it, "...better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven..."

Modifié par someone else, 13 août 2012 - 04:27 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

someone else wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

..Synthesis doesn't result in homogenization. Well, maybe homogenization of man and machine, but the different races still maintain their separate identity.

No they don't - they share the same "dna" - to use BW's inaccurate characterization - the "races" are reduced to variants - much like dachshunds and St. Bernards'...the consolation being Shep and [fill in squaddie of your choice] can at last have progeny...talimancers rejoice.

Their DNAs are augmented, but how do they share the same DNA now? In the same way, what makes you think we are not variants now? We already share genetic similarities with other species.

[someone else]

Nooo....the difference between a variety and a species is the ability to breed [avoids smirky remark about involving pigs, apes, and other innocent, unknowing brutes]

- so no, we're not variants outside of the species ****** sapiens. - Synthesis is by definition and intent a one-species [aka one "dna"] solution - no more inter-species (one hopes inter-racial) nor digital-analog strife...

(what BW was inartfully aiming at was not a "new dna" but a new genome - a common basis for "organic" (analog) and "synthetic" (digital) life forms

Modifié par someone else, 13 août 2012 - 04:57 .

[Seival]

pirate1802 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Well, an army of Paragon ex-VI Shepards is not a problem actually. But an army of Renegade ex-VI Shepards...

They'll be murderized by the paragon ones.

[DirtyPhoenix]

someone else wrote...

Nooo....the difference between a variety and a species is the ability to breed [avoids smirky remark about involving pigs, apes, and other innocent, unknowing brutes]

- so no, we're not variants outside of the species ****** sapiens. - Synthesis is by definition and intent a one-species [aka one "dna"] solution - no more inter-species (one hopes inter-racial) nor digital-analog strife...

(what BW was inartfully aiming at was not a "new dna" but a new genome - a common basis for "organic" (analog) and "synthetic" (digital) life forms

No.. synthesis is merging organic and synthetic into one DNA, not merging a turian and a krogan into one DNA. Also, there is certainly interspecies strife. Wreav is still a dick if genophage is cured. Also, where did you see a Human and a Quarian can now breed?

[someone else]

Pirate1802 wrote...
Also, where did you see a Human and a Quarian can now breed?

...ask any talimancer what the entire purpose of the triology was!

But it is a common shared "genome" - Shepard's blenderization transformed not just ****** sapiens and synthetics but all life forms presumably from viral forms on up, (there is a good case to be made that synthesis alters the inorganic world to an equal extent...that raises interesting speculative possibilities - gaia, sentient stars, lalala...but i digress...)

Shepard's "contribution" is not species specific, but alters "genetics" (btw explain what "dna"  means in the context of a former synthetic...?) at a fundamental level across all affected entities...if you listen to Hackett, you'll find the new race shares uncanny abilites to communicate and interact - strong evidence of unity (even nascent hive-mind) and support for my interpretation of the outcome.

...so there's little standing in the way of a pram full of tali-ettes...for example...if that's what you're into...I mean it could be kroga-bunnies, or turi-twins, jellly-drellies (Hanar and the Drell finally get it on)...or elcor...[aghast realization] nooo don't wanna go there...

Modifié par someone else, 13 août 2012 - 07:15 .