4520 réponses à ce sujet

[r3apz515]

biggest troll thead ever created in the history of forums.

[CrutchCricket]

r3apz515 wrote...

biggest troll thead ever created in the history of forums.

Impossible. The biggest troll thread would have to be created by the biggest troll and I don't see your name in the credits.

[Seival]

So, I just finished Leviathan DLC...

First of all, I want to say the DLC is amazing, and worth each BioWare Point I spent on it. Secondly, and even more importantly, I liked the DLC as the Control supporter. It rises the value of Control choice a lot in fact.

The new Catalyst will be friendly to all synthetic races and all organic races as well (including Leviathans). So, the Leviathans and the Catalyst will work together (at least in case of Paragon Shepard-Catalyst) to find a solution to organic-synthetic problem, as was intended by the Leviathans before the original Catalyst betrayed them.

And I think, that inevitable solution will be Controled Synthesis, which will not be as chaotic and unpredictable as ending-synthesis.



...Well, and I'm really feel sorry for the Destroyers. No offence, Destroyers.

Modifié par Seival, 29 août 2012 - 11:36 .

[Seival]

Looks like I have to complete the final again. The original Catalyst definitely has something interesting to say about the Leviathans.

Modifié par Seival, 29 août 2012 - 11:45 .

[plfranke]

Seival wrote...

Looks like I have to complete the final again. The original Catalyst definitely has something interesting to say about the Leviathans.

lol you joking?

[Seival]

plfranke wrote...

Seival wrote...

Looks like I have to complete the final again. The original Catalyst definitely has something interesting to say about the Leviathans.

lol you joking?

I just finished the DLC, I don't know how exactly it affects the dialogue with the Catalyst... And I need to remake the final video footage for my Shepard, if the dialogue has even minor changes.

[mauro2222]

I can't believe that people fall for the bs of the Catalyst about organic vs synthetics. Leviathans want to rule the galaxy, they could care less about your peace, as long as you live to give tribute and be controlled, they don't give a damn.

[Eterna]

mauro2222 wrote...

I can't believe that people fall for the bs of the Catalyst about organic vs synthetics. Leviathans want to rule the galaxy, they could care less about your peace, as long as you live to give tribute and be controlled, they don't give a damn.

Why is it bs? Because you say so?

[Seival]

mauro2222 wrote...

I can't believe that people fall for the bs of the Catalyst about organic vs synthetics. Leviathans want to rule the galaxy, they could care less about your peace, as long as you live to give tribute and be controlled, they don't give a damn.

If we will use D&D classifications, then Leviathans can be called True Neutral creatures. More specifically, the ones with way of thinking built only around preserving the balance of nature. They can be evil when needed, and they can be good when needed. And no matter what they are doing, they always wise and reasonable. Such creatures can be trusted.

...And mind-controlling abilities? It's just their way to communicate, and fight. A part of their phisiology. Such abilities shouldn't be feared while they used by reasonable and wise creatures. 

I like the Leviathans race. I like them VERY much.

[Seival]

...And I really want to learn more about the Leviathans. Maybe we will see more stories about them in future ME Universe games? I hope so.

[CrutchCricket]

Way to completely miss the point.

Yes Leviathan does bolster control but it has nothing to do with the holokid or the utterly vile bull**** it spouts (Leviathan further confirms its stupidity and malfunction by the way).

Here's where things stand:

Leviathans are no better than Reapers. I mean sure you don't get melted down into a cuttlefish slushy. But you're a slave for life. Leviathans enslave just by being. And they're still around. The only thing that's stopping them from doing that again (and indeed stopped them to begin with) was the Reapers.
If you destroy the Reapers guess what? You just laid out the red carpet for Leviathans to return to power.
Control is the best ending for Leviathans on the other hand because Commander can now mobilize the entire might of the Reapers on hunting down the Leviathans. Control is the only surefire ending where Leviathans will not threaten the galaxy again. And Commander gets to live up to its promise of protection.

Synthesis of course continues to be the bull**** fairytale land of happiness and chocolates so it's not even worth mentioning.

But by no means is control safe. Destroy got sabotaged. There's still DLC to come. Bioware wants to push the green **** on us. We're next. We must prepare.

Modifié par CrutchCricket, 30 août 2012 - 04:14 .

[CroGamer002]

Wow, almost read your possibly spoilerific post on Levianth.

Shutting down until I play it.





No, I will not watch it off Youtube.

[CrutchCricket]

Sorry about that.

[Seival]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Way to completely miss the point.

Yes Leviathan does bolster control but it has nothing to do with the holokid or the utterly vile bull**** it spouts (Leviathan further confirms its stupidity and malfunction by the way).

Here's where things stand:

Leviathans are no better than Reapers. I mean sure you don't get melted down into a cuttlefish slushy. But you're a slave for life. Leviathans enslave just by being. And they're still around. The only thing that's stopping them from doing that again (and indeed stopped them to begin with) was the Reapers.
If you destroy the Reapers guess what? You just laid out the red carpet for Leviathans to return to power.
Control is the best ending for Leviathans on the other hand because Commander can now mobilize the entire might of the Reapers on hunting down the Leviathans. Control is the only surefire ending where Leviathans will not threaten the galaxy again. And Commander gets to live up to its promise of protection.

Synthesis of course continues to be the bull**** fairytale land of happiness and chocolates so it's not even worth mentioning.

But by no means is control safe. Destroy got sabotaged. There's still DLC to come. Bioware wants to push the green **** on us. We're next. We must prepare.

I don't know how could you come to that conclusion about the Leviathans. Personally, I like them. They are not like the original Reapers at all. And they are not "slavers", they just have unique physiology. They are definitely the most powerfull biotics in the galaxy, but they are also wise and reasonable.

Recently I've understood that I have nothing against Synthesis except two very important things. I want it to be improved, and I want to prepare people for it first. In other words - I want evolution, not a revolution. And this is possible only in case of Control.

[CrutchCricket]

Seival wrote...

I don't know how could you come to that conclusion about the Leviathans. Personally, I like them. They are not like the original Reapers at all. And they are not "slavers", they just have unique physiology. They are definitely the most powerfull biotics in the galaxy, but they are also wise and reasonable.

Uhm, because they pretty much tell you?

They even tell you why they started all this crap to begin with. "Dead thralls give no tribute". They didn't give a **** abour preserving life for its own sake. They just wanted to keep their slaves around.

They're monsters, nothing more. Worse than the Reapers in the sense that they've chosen to do what they do. Reapers at least have the excuse that they were just following bad programming.

Leviathans must all be destroyed. The sooner the better.

[MerchantGOL]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Seival wrote...

I don't know how could you come to that conclusion about the Leviathans. Personally, I like them. They are not like the original Reapers at all. And they are not "slavers", they just have unique physiology. They are definitely the most powerfull biotics in the galaxy, but they are also wise and reasonable.

Uhm, because they pretty much tell you?

They even tell you why they started all this crap to begin with. "Dead thralls give no tribute". They didn't give a **** abour preserving life for its own sake. They just wanted to keep their slaves around.

They're monsters, nothing more. Worse than the Reapers in the sense that they've chosen to do what they do. Reapers at least have the excuse that they were just following bad programming.

Leviathans must all be destroyed. The sooner the better.

the old levithans might of been mosters but  ther living levithans didnt comit those crimes.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Seival wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I can't believe that people fall for the bs of the Catalyst about organic vs synthetics. Leviathans want to rule the galaxy, they could care less about your peace, as long as you live to give tribute and be controlled, they don't give a damn.

If we will use D&D classifications, then Leviathans can be called True Neutral creatures. More specifically, the ones with way of thinking built only around preserving the balance of nature. They can be evil when needed, and they can be good when needed. And no matter what they are doing, they always wise and reasonable. Such creatures can be trusted.

...And mind-controlling abilities? It's just their way to communicate, and fight. A part of their phisiology. Such abilities shouldn't be feared while they used by reasonable and wise creatures. 

I like the Leviathans race. I like them VERY much.

True neutral? These guys are on the evil spectrum.

[MerchantGOL]

Lizardviking wrote...

Seival wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

I can't believe that people fall for the bs of the Catalyst about organic vs synthetics. Leviathans want to rule the galaxy, they could care less about your peace, as long as you live to give tribute and be controlled, they don't give a damn.

If we will use D&D classifications, then Leviathans can be called True Neutral creatures. More specifically, the ones with way of thinking built only around preserving the balance of nature. They can be evil when needed, and they can be good when needed. And no matter what they are doing, they always wise and reasonable. Such creatures can be trusted.

...And mind-controlling abilities? It's just their way to communicate, and fight. A part of their phisiology. Such abilities shouldn't be feared while they used by reasonable and wise creatures. 

I like the Leviathans race. I like them VERY much.

True neutral? These guys are on the evil spectrum.

Not the currently livving ones

[Comsky159]

Good or evil? Leviathans just seem kind of dim-witted to me.

[Shermos]

It looked to me like Bioware is setting the Leviathans up to be an antagonist for a future game. Thralls and tribute from the "lesser species"? These guys are little more than very technologically advanced imperialists. The British used to claim they were taking care of the Indians and the Japanese still do about the Chinese and Koreans. Of course, we know both claims are bull****.

Modifié par Shermos, 31 août 2012 - 09:15 .

[Rommel49]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Way to completely miss the point.

Yes Leviathan does bolster control but it has nothing to do with the holokid or the utterly vile bull**** it spouts (Leviathan further confirms its stupidity and malfunction by the way).

Here's where things stand:

Leviathans are no better than Reapers. I mean sure you don't get melted down into a cuttlefish slushy. But you're a slave for life. Leviathans enslave just by being. And they're still around. The only thing that's stopping them from doing that again (and indeed stopped them to begin with) was the Reapers.
If you destroy the Reapers guess what? You just laid out the red carpet for Leviathans to return to power.
Control is the best ending for Leviathans on the other hand because Commander can now mobilize the entire might of the Reapers on hunting down the Leviathans. Control is the only surefire ending where Leviathans will not threaten the galaxy again. And Commander gets to live up to its promise of protection.

Synthesis of course continues to be the bull**** fairytale land of happiness and chocolates so it's not even worth mentioning.

But by no means is control safe. Destroy got sabotaged. There's still DLC to come. Bioware wants to push the green **** on us. We're next. We must prepare.

Control is arguably the least safe option in my book. To basically repost my thoughts from another thread on the subject, somewhat long:

Fact is, I wouldn't trust anybody to keep the Reapers docile and non-threatening to organics long-term. Even if I trusted Starkid to be honest about the control option (which I don't, it's just his word that it'd work for me when it wouldn't for TIM, and I doubt TIM was told it wouldn't work for him, but I digress); I honestly wouldn't even trust myself/Me-Reaper to remain beneficient (or even just non-hostile) when thinking about my future existence over the long haul.

Seriously, that's just being honest and realistic about it: no matter how well-adjusted I might be now or how pure my motives are in the beginning, how long until Reaper-Me goes completely cuckoo for cocoa puffs as a result of knowing full well that everyone I ever cared about, all of my friends and family are dead and their bodies turned to dust long ago, and I'm forced to linger alone and isolated for what might as well be eternity? Note that Starkid doesn't even bother attempting to sugarcoat this point, I'll only be able to remember those people (and he makes it clear that I will remember them, not just some machine-intelligence gestalt formed from my personality and memories. This means that those memories will eventually become nothing more than a never-ending catalog of everyone and everything I've ever lost and can never get back; including the sacrifice of my very humanity - that's basically a living hell, no matter how you try to slice it. Nobody is meant to be effectively immortal and outlive (I use "outlive" very loosely in this instance) everyone they ever cared about... pretty much the only way it wouldn't eventually drive an intelligent being utterly insane is if they were already the biggest sociopath to ever live and just didn't care, which kinda defeats the purpose.

Even if we assume my personality and memories just formed the gestalt for the development of a new AI, over the long term that AI's own extended "life" and experiences are going to alter it to the point that the result couldn't be reasonably predicted aside from the fact that I highly doubt it would remain the same self-sacrificing entity that initially spawned it. That AI's experiences may be enough to render it just as cuckoo as if it were actually me or as dangerous (if not moreso) than the original Reapers. Honestly, given long enough, I wouldn't be surprised if Reaper-Me picked folks at random and sent Husks to chase them around for years on end while trying to tap them to death with spoons or set them on fire with individual matches or something, pretty much anything to keep myself entertained or distracted from the never-ending nightmare of that existence.

It may not be perfect, but destroy is really the only option given that absolutely guarantees the Reapers will never render another race extinct, the Leviathans just aren't a big enough threat to justify the risk of keeping the Reapers around; if nothing else, the Leviathans certainly aren't the friendliest bunch, but they also haven't given any indication they want us extinct and they don't force us to fight off the corpses of our own people. Hell, we know where the Leviathans are, it's unlikely they're going anywhere and there's no indication they can do their thing unless they or an artifact is close enough to their target, just park ships in orbit of their planet and bombard them if you feel the danger's great enough.

Modifié par Rommel49, 31 août 2012 - 09:42 .

[SauliusL]

After reading this topic I once again came to a conclusion, that at least in one way Bioware are genius - with their (probably) bad writing, they did such an ending, that people (like control or synthesis supporters), after three whole ME games, comics, books - in the final minutes of the game revert themselves and start trusting the only real enemy they had for a couple years in ME universe. I mean just to think of it - how would you as a writer do it to fans, who actually think about the story and analyze the details while playing the games? Its amazing!

[SauliusL]

Plus, just few minutes back, convincing the Illusive man not to trust reapers and shoot himself. I mean, even if they did it by "accident" - they are genius

[Comsky159]

Rommel49 wrote...

Control is arguably the least safe option in my book. To basically repost my thoughts from another thread on the subject, somewhat long:

Fact is, I wouldn't trust anybody to keep the Reapers docile and non-threatening to organics long-term. Even if I trusted Starkid to be honest about the control option (which I don't, it's just his word that it'd work for me when it wouldn't for TIM, and I doubt TIM was told it wouldn't work for him, but I digress); I honestly wouldn't even trust myself/Me-Reaper to remain beneficient (or even just non-hostile) when thinking about my future existence over the long haul.

Seriously, that's just being honest and realistic about it: no matter how well-adjusted I might be now or how pure my motives are in the beginning, how long until Reaper-Me goes completely cuckoo for cocoa puffs as a result of knowing full well that everyone I ever cared about, all of my friends and family are dead and their bodies turned to dust long ago, and I'm forced to linger alone and isolated for what might as well be eternity? Note that Starkid doesn't even bother attempting to sugarcoat this point, I'll only be able to remember those people (and he makes it clear that I will remember them, not just some machine-intelligence gestalt formed from my personality and memories. This means that those memories will eventually become nothing more than a never-ending catalog of everyone and everything I've ever lost and can never get back; including the sacrifice of my very humanity - that's basically a living hell, no matter how you try to slice it. Nobody is meant to be effectively immortal and outlive (I use "outlive" very loosely in this instance) everyone they ever cared about... pretty much the only way it wouldn't eventually drive an intelligent being utterly insane is if they were already the biggest sociopath to ever live and just didn't care, which kinda defeats the purpose.

Even if we assume my personality and memories just formed the gestalt for the development of a new AI, over the long term that AI's own extended "life" and experiences are going to alter it to the point that the result couldn't be reasonably predicted aside from the fact that I highly doubt it would remain the same self-sacrificing entity that initially spawned it. That AI's experiences may be enough to render it just as cuckoo as if it were actually me or as dangerous (if not moreso) than the original Reapers. Honestly, given long enough, I wouldn't be surprised if Reaper-Me picked folks at random and sent Husks to chase them around for years on end while trying to tap them to death with spoons or set them on fire with individual matches or something, pretty much anything to keep myself entertained or distracted from the never-ending nightmare of that existence.

It may not be perfect, but destroy is really the only option given that absolutely guarantees the Reapers will never render another race extinct, the Leviathans just aren't a big enough threat to justify the risk of keeping the Reapers around; if nothing else, the Leviathans certainly aren't the friendliest bunch, but they also haven't given any indication they want us extinct and they don't force us to fight off the corpses of our own people. Hell, we know where the Leviathans are, it's unlikely they're going anywhere and there's no indication they can do their thing unless they or an artifact is close enough to their target, just park ships in orbit of their planet and bombard them if you feel the danger's great enough.

I trust Shepard. The reason the catalyst is mistaken is solely because of Shepard; he's the one anomaly, the only person capable of resolving any and every issue this chaotic Galaxy may spawn, irregardless of any supposed logic or reason. No other human being in past, present or future can compare to this living outlier to the catalysts rationale.

Ergo without Shepard around, the Catalyst's reasoning will actually gain credence. With this in mind, doesn't in make sense to preserve the audacity, resilience and benevolence (for paragon) that comprises his core? Doesn't it make sense for him to assume position of immortal galactic guardian? Even in human form Shepard was already a nigh-deity, all control does is cement this fact by allowing him/her to transcend flesh and blood.

Don't make the mistake of confusing yourself with Shepard, he/she may be your avatar but he exists in a different universe, fundamentally superior to every human being. However, obviously character construction will play a part here, and thus will vary significanty from person to person. For my Shepard control is quite simply a dream; after being surrounded by so much inexorable death and destruction for so long and sacrificing so many on behalf of this mission (Arrival DLC, Virmire, Mindoir, Akuze, Thessia, Collector Base) he is finally confronted with the opportunity to save everyone and everything at the singular expense of his corporeal existence.

Perhaps your Shepard is incapable of maintaining control, maybe his intimate connection with friends and lovers failed to fasten the conviction that peace is always a possibilty. In the Shepard I know however, this is certainly not the case.

Beyond this I shouldn't have to vocalise what the Shepard AI's value is in terms of rebuilding and augmenting, protecting and supporting both organics and synthetic races under a prior-to unattainable, infallible democratic system.

As far as I'm concerned this isn't what Shepard set out to do in ME1; it was what he was born to do in 2157.

Modifié par Comsky159, 31 août 2012 - 10:40 .

[CrutchCricket]

MerchantGOL wrote...
the old levithans might of been mosters but  ther living levithans didnt comit those crimes.

"We'll fight, but not for you. The Reapers must pay tribute in blood!" (or something like that).

They don't give a **** any more than their ancestors did. Which means that if allowed to go free, they'll go right back to enslaving "lesser races"