4520 réponses à ce sujet

[The Grinning Psychopath]

eh no offense intended. eh these are just may warlike thoughts... outloud... but also the truth peace is boring.

enforced peace brought about by a pragmatic dictator though... thats more like it... not quite as boring as that brought by the Paragon shepard, while being... not as evil as full on Reaper cycles.

heheheheeh. god i love Mingolo's ideas of what to do all with the Reapers the more i think of it... only problem though, some Jesus force out there, saint warriors of preservation or something from another galaxy with some kickass weapons would probably eventually end up following the Reapers back to their home galaxy, to try and stop the cycles once and for all, it'd be a war everyone in our galaxy would have no clue as to why they were fighting same as before with the Reapers, with only cryptic comments to go on.

till eventually its revealed to them, in stunning detail just what the Reapers have been doing outside their galaxy, and... well whoops... yeah that'll probably not go over well at all.

and all hopes for peace would go out the window... and everyone would be turned against you, you would be to quote Obi-Wan Kenobi "the very thing you swore to destroy" or something like that anyway.

eh but before that came about... it woulda probably been a good long run of about 600 years at least... maybe a thousand or more.

heheheheeh... ahhhh... i wonder if Grunt would be around to witness and partake in all of that... its possible that the Krogan could be convinced to side entirely with the Reapers, if your generous enough to them... maybe... also faintly possible to clone Protheans from Javik's DNA perhaos and recreate the Collectors...

damn i'm gloomy.

[The Grinning Psychopath]

eh i always try to get the both the pros and the cons in my visions.

[Leones Maneres]

Control = Paragon choice. Save all, stop all killing, immediately help rebuild.

Destroy = Renegade choice (you do kill EDI and the newly sentient Geth...if you allowed them to survive at all).

Synthesis = Playing God. Your choice to synthesize = removal of said choice for all lfe in existence in the galaxy about same said choice...maybe this is the real Renegade option?

Also - by what logic do the Reapers suddenly stop killing in the Green option? Shepard assumes control in blue - they die in red - but in green? I don't buy it. The Reapers were hell bent on destruction when they were pure synthetic - since when does being made partly biological instantly render you peaceful? If anything, I'd think that event would make them even worse, not better.

What's worse than a Reaper wiping out all advanced life for a coldly logical reason? A reaper wiping out all advanced life because it's logical AND they now get off on it too!

[The Grinning Psychopath]

ahhh music... if any music fits Mass effect 3 at all, and would be great for an emotional trailer or something of it... i'd say it'd have to be these two songs.

especially, The End. dark, romantic... tragic, lovely... sorrowful. also parts of it sum up how i felt when i first played Mass effect 3 and chose the Control Ending.

[dorktainian]

control is indoctrination....

Destroy all the way baby........

[CrutchCricket]

Maxga wrote...

Control isn't a bad option, but the Synthesis ending really does leave no room for future conflict between organics and synthetics. Organics control technology and Synthetics understand Organics, there's no reason to fight. It also allows EDI and the Geth to become as close to Organic as possible without needing to wipe them out.

Hey man, we're all friends here. But if you seriously believe synthesis stops all conflict you're indoctrinated.

And if synthesis really is meant to imply ending all conflict, that's even more horror than I imagined.

Really, it all boils down to synthesis is bad and you (Bioware) should feel bad.

[Argolas]

Just what stops the galaxy from producing more synthetic slaves in Control or Synthesis?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Sahporht.

Control is my second choice after Synthesis.

:happy:

[JeffZero]

Same here, HYR.

[CrutchCricket]

Argolas wrote...

Just what stops the galaxy from producing more synthetic slaves in Control or Synthesis?

Nothing. Doesn't do **** for any of the other countless ways life can exterminate itself.

But don't tell them that. You'll ruin the "art".

[Argolas]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Just what stops the galaxy from producing more synthetic slaves in Control or Synthesis?

Nothing. Doesn't do **** for any of the other countless ways life can exterminate itself.

But don't tell them that. You'll ruin the "art".

I have an idea for control: Holoshep reboots the cycle.
Seriously, I can´t come up with an explanation other than Shepard quite literally replacing reaper kid, doing the very same thing.

[CrutchCricket]

Argolas wrote...
I have an idea for control: Holoshep reboots the cycle.
Seriously, I can´t come up with an explanation other than Shepard quite literally replacing reaper kid, doing the very same thing.

*sigh

And here I was thinking this was a rational discussion. But we're back to "Shepard restarts the cycles lololol!!1"

Check the sig for why that isn't even remotely true. Others in this thread have offered other explanations as well.

Hint: The correct answer is to deny the bull**** the holokid spouts in its entirety. There is no "organic-synthetic problem", there is only a genocidal buggy AI. You can either destroy it, or take its toys away and ascend yourself in the process.

[Argolas]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Argolas wrote...
I have an idea for control: Holoshep reboots the cycle.
Seriously,
I can´t come up with an explanation other than Shepard quite literally
replacing reaper kid, doing the very same thing.

*sigh

And here I was thinking this was a rational discussion. But we're back to "Shepard restarts the cycles lololol!!1"

Check the sig for why that isn't even remotely true. Others in this thread have offered other explanations as well.

Hint:
The correct answer is to deny the bull**** the holokid spouts in its
entirety. There is no "organic-synthetic problem", there is only a
genocidal buggy AI. You can either destroy it, or take its toys away and
ascend yourself in the process.

You may have misunderstood me. I was supposing that the problem the catalyst speaks of DOES exist because I posted in the Control Ending support thread. And I did not say Shepard DOES restart the cycle, I said this is the only reason why no one would be able to create synthetic slaves again in control ending. 

I do not  believe that synthetics will wipe organic life out eventually, but I recognize
that people support Control and Synthesis because of this. I wanted to
understand why, is all. And please excuse me if I do not search a thread with more than 150 pages for an answer to a specific question.

[SeptimusMagistos]

Argolas wrote...

Just what stops the galaxy from producing more synthetic slaves in Control or Synthesis?

Well, in Paragon version of Control it's presumably Shepard and his allies hunting down slavers Fallout-style and liberating synthetics to become equal members of society.

[Seival]

Argolas wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Argolas wrote...
I have an idea for control: Holoshep reboots the cycle.
Seriously,
I can´t come up with an explanation other than Shepard quite literally
replacing reaper kid, doing the very same thing.

*sigh

And here I was thinking this was a rational discussion. But we're back to "Shepard restarts the cycles lololol!!1"

Check the sig for why that isn't even remotely true. Others in this thread have offered other explanations as well.

Hint:
The correct answer is to deny the bull**** the holokid spouts in its
entirety. There is no "organic-synthetic problem", there is only a
genocidal buggy AI. You can either destroy it, or take its toys away and
ascend yourself in the process.

You may have misunderstood me. I was supposing that the problem the catalyst speaks of DOES exist because I posted in the Control Ending support thread. And I did not say Shepard DOES restart the cycle, I said this is the only reason why no one would be able to create synthetic slaves again in control ending. 

I do not  believe that synthetics will wipe organic life out eventually, but I recognize
that people support Control and Synthesis because of this. I wanted to
understand why, is all. And please excuse me if I do not search a thread with more than 150 pages for an answer to a specific question.

(1) Leviathans admitted that their creation stuck with its temporary and morally wrong solution.
(2) The original Catalyst itself admitted that its solution can't work as a permanent measure.
(3) And Shepard-Catalyst will not even consider Cycles as a valid temporary option.

This is how I see It. Catalyst-Shepard has to be a peacekeeper for the time required to study/improve Synthesis mechanics, and prepare Galactic Civilization for the inevitable transformation without rushing and forcing. Also, I believe that Catalyst-Shepard will be interested in cooperating with the Leviathans to achieve that goal.

Modifié par Seival, 18 septembre 2012 - 08:32 .

[Seival]

...You know, now I feel like I solved some global riddle. All elements are on the proper places now

[Argolas]

Seival wrote...

Argolas wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Argolas wrote...
I have an idea for control: Holoshep reboots the cycle.
Seriously,
I can´t come up with an explanation other than Shepard quite literally
replacing reaper kid, doing the very same thing.

*sigh

And here I was thinking this was a rational discussion. But we're back to "Shepard restarts the cycles lololol!!1"

Check the sig for why that isn't even remotely true. Others in this thread have offered other explanations as well.

Hint:
The correct answer is to deny the bull**** the holokid spouts in its
entirety. There is no "organic-synthetic problem", there is only a
genocidal buggy AI. You can either destroy it, or take its toys away and
ascend yourself in the process.

You may have misunderstood me. I was supposing that the problem the catalyst speaks of DOES exist because I posted in the Control Ending support thread. And I did not say Shepard DOES restart the cycle, I said this is the only reason why no one would be able to create synthetic slaves again in control ending. 

I do not  believe that synthetics will wipe organic life out eventually, but I recognize
that people support Control and Synthesis because of this. I wanted to
understand why, is all. And please excuse me if I do not search a thread with more than 150 pages for an answer to a specific question.

(1) Leviathans admitted that their creation stuck with its temporary and morally wrong solution.
(2) The original Catalyst itself admitted that its solution can't work as a permanent measure.
(3) And Shepard-Catalyst will not even consider Cycles as a valid temporary option.

This is how I see It. Catalyst-Shepard has to be a peacekeeper for the time required to study/improve Synthesis mechanics, and prepare Galactic Civilization for the inevitable transformation without rushing and forcing. Also, I believe that Catalyst-Shepard will be interested in cooperating with the Leviathans to achieve that goal.

All right, so enforced peace is the solution, like "Stay down or I kill you".

[Seival]

Argolas wrote...

Seival wrote...

Argolas wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Argolas wrote...
I have an idea for control: Holoshep reboots the cycle.
Seriously,
I can´t come up with an explanation other than Shepard quite literally
replacing reaper kid, doing the very same thing.

*sigh

And here I was thinking this was a rational discussion. But we're back to "Shepard restarts the cycles lololol!!1"

Check the sig for why that isn't even remotely true. Others in this thread have offered other explanations as well.

Hint:
The correct answer is to deny the bull**** the holokid spouts in its
entirety. There is no "organic-synthetic problem", there is only a
genocidal buggy AI. You can either destroy it, or take its toys away and
ascend yourself in the process.

You may have misunderstood me. I was supposing that the problem the catalyst speaks of DOES exist because I posted in the Control Ending support thread. And I did not say Shepard DOES restart the cycle, I said this is the only reason why no one would be able to create synthetic slaves again in control ending. 

I do not  believe that synthetics will wipe organic life out eventually, but I recognize
that people support Control and Synthesis because of this. I wanted to
understand why, is all. And please excuse me if I do not search a thread with more than 150 pages for an answer to a specific question.

(1) Leviathans admitted that their creation stuck with its temporary and morally wrong solution.
(2) The original Catalyst itself admitted that its solution can't work as a permanent measure.
(3) And Shepard-Catalyst will not even consider Cycles as a valid temporary option.

This is how I see It. Catalyst-Shepard has to be a peacekeeper for the time required to study/improve Synthesis mechanics, and prepare Galactic Civilization for the inevitable transformation without rushing and forcing. Also, I believe that Catalyst-Shepard will be interested in cooperating with the Leviathans to achieve that goal.

All right, so enforced peace is the solution, like "Stay down or I kill you".

It's more like "Stay down or I'll punish you". Good people will have nothing to worry about. And bad people will just fear to make something bad. Catalyst-Shepard is not some regular government. It will bring real justice.

Modifié par Seival, 18 septembre 2012 - 09:37 .

[Argolas]

Seival wrote...

It's more like "Stay down or I'll punish you". Good people will have nothing to worry about. And bad people will just fear to make something bad. Catalyst-Shepard is not some regular government. It will bring real justice.

It is still judgement. What makes you think Holoshep is better than an elected democratic government? It is no god, just a man connected to... something like a super computer, I guess. 
He is a dictator here, one single person that holds all power and demands obedience or else he uses his force to punish you. And even if he is extremely Paragon, there are a lot rulers in history that meant to do good but made mistakes.  I do not see why Shepard would not. Once again, a man makes mistakes, catalyst did too, and Holoshep is a connection of both.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Argolas wrote...
I do not  believe that synthetics will wipe organic life out eventually, but I recognize
that people support Control and Synthesis because of this. I wanted to
understand why, is all. And please excuse me if I do not search a thread with more than 150 pages for an answer to a specific question.

I pick control and think the catalyst is full of ****, and by picking control and thereby sacrificing myself I will prove the catalyst wrong on every level possible.

[CrutchCricket]

Argolas wrote...

You may have misunderstood me. I was supposing that the problem the catalyst speaks of DOES exist because I posted in the Control Ending support thread. And I did not say Shepard DOES restart the cycle, I said this is the only reason why no one would be able to create synthetic slaves again in control ending. 

I do not  believe that synthetics will wipe organic life out eventually, but I recognize
that people support Control and Synthesis because of this. I wanted to
understand why, is all. And please excuse me if I do not search a thread with more than 150 pages for an answer to a specific question.

The underlined does not follow for control. The less said of synthesis the better, but you can choose control without buying the holokid's bull****. The reasons are endless. Personal power and ascension, unwillingness to sacrifice the geth and EDI, accepting general responsibility for the state of the galaxy, just to name a few.

[CrutchCricket]

Argolas wrote...
It is still judgement. What makes you think Holoshep is better than an elected democratic government? It is no god, just a man connected to... something like a super computer, I guess. 
He is a dictator here, one single person that holds all power and demands obedience or else he uses his force to punish you. And even if he is extremely Paragon, there are a lot rulers in history that meant to do good but made mistakes.  I do not see why Shepard would not. Once again, a man makes mistakes, catalyst did too, and Holoshep is a connection of both.

It is an advanced, higher form of life. Saying it's not a god is meaningless. To pre-spaceflight civilizations it would appear to be a god. Widen the gap enough and anything can seem a god to anything else.

It is thus not subject to your judgement (or anyone else's) about how it is better than man. And it certainly is not man.

[Argolas]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Argolas wrote...
It is still judgement. What makes you think Holoshep is better than an elected democratic government? It is no god, just a man connected to... something like a super computer, I guess. 
He is a dictator here, one single person that holds all power and demands obedience or else he uses his force to punish you. And even if he is extremely Paragon, there are a lot rulers in history that meant to do good but made mistakes.  I do not see why Shepard would not. Once again, a man makes mistakes, catalyst did too, and Holoshep is a connection of both.

It is an advanced, higher form of life. Saying it's not a god is meaningless. To pre-spaceflight civilizations it would appear to be a god. Widen the gap enough and anything can seem a god to anything else.

It is thus not subject to your judgement (or anyone else's) about how it is better than man. And it certainly is not man.

I really just want to understand, is all. "Catalyst" proved that such a high being can do terrible things (genocide) and make mistakes (invalid solution). And all you add to the "catalyst" is Shepard, a man. I just want to understand why Holoshep will certainly do better and never ever go wrong since he´d better not, he is more powerful than the whole galaxy combined.
He is a higher being, yes, but does that give him the right to rule?

Modifié par Argolas, 18 septembre 2012 - 10:03 .

[Seival]

Argolas wrote...

Seival wrote...

It's more like "Stay down or I'll punish you". Good people will have nothing to worry about. And bad people will just fear to make something bad. Catalyst-Shepard is not some regular government. It will bring real justice.

It is still judgement. What makes you think Holoshep is better than an elected democratic government? It is no god, just a man connected to... something like a super computer, I guess. 
He is a dictator here, one single person that holds all power and demands obedience or else he uses his force to punish you. And even if he is extremely Paragon, there are a lot rulers in history that meant to do good but made mistakes.  I do not see why Shepard would not. Once again, a man makes mistakes, catalyst did too, and Holoshep is a connection of both.

The Catalyst is not "a man connected to". Catalyst is the collective mind of all Reapers. The creature consisting of millions of different mobile and static platforms. The AI with unlimited processing power. Shepard died, giving that creature her personality and memories, giving birth to The New Catalyst. Shepard-Catalyst is The Reapers.

Now I hope you feel the scale of the matter.

Shepard-Catalyst is a Dictator only in case of Renegade Control ending. In case of Paragon Control ending Shepard-Catalyst is the Guardian... Well, I think you should watch all variants of Control ending. As far as I know, there are 6 different variants of this ending, each reflecting Shepard's personality.

[Dragoonlordz]

Seival wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

spinachdiaper wrote...

Control is the "better to rule in hell than serve in heaven" ending

Control is better to rule in hell then turn it into heaven as opposed to serve in hell and then die and go to heaven.

Personally I do not like TiM and I think he should die. I have more trust in influence my Shepard would have than him.

Well, I don't like TIM too. But we can't ignore the fact that he also had a very important positive role in ME2 events. Without TIM's and Cerberus help Galactic Civilization would have fallen most likely.

I'll put my feelings regarding this as TiM was right in that could be controlled, he was right in that the best outcome (presented in game imho) was control. But he was not right about himself being the one to control them, I see TiM as racist and a threat to galactic peace which is in opposition to my own Shepard's agenda which is about saving as many lives as possibly can by ending the war and preserving / protecting the peace after it. I trust my Shepard more than ever would trust TiM in that position. So I would of shot him anyways even if Bioware gave me the option of letting him live. He was too big a threat to what my Shepard was hoping to achieve. I might have given him a 5 second headstart to run away for bringing me back but yeh I would of shot him anyways even if I believe control is the best option presented.