4520 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

Xilizhra wrote...

I've come around, I think, to accepting Control... but only if Shepard can be brought back to life, physically. Otherwise, I'll refuse to acknowledge any ending. As of now, anyway.

Good to hear

You just made the first step like I did once. I hope you will enjoy traveling through the entire road. Take care.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Seival wrote...
And that artistic integrity actually led you to prefering Control over all other endings. I think you will never want some silly holywodish ending instead of you already have right now.

Just stumbled into this thread again and saw this.

Just because one likes the concept of control does not mean one likes the endings, I like control, but the endings still and always will be garbage.

[CrutchCricket]

Lizardviking wrote...
Just because one likes the concept of control does not mean one likes the endings, I like control, but the endings still and always will be garbage.

Yep, pretty much what I said, only with more diplomacy.

[mass perfection]

I want to play as Shepard in Mass Effect 4 after the Control ending so I can play as a god.

Modifié par mass perfection, 28 septembre 2012 - 11:01 .

[Seival]

CrutchCricket wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
Just because one likes the concept of control does not mean one likes the endings, I like control, but the endings still and always will be garbage.

Yep, pretty much what I said, only with more diplomacy.

Well, you both accepted one of the endings, which is much better than a whining. In fact, that shows that you are able to make difficult decisions instead of whining about a "dire destiny". I think all haters should at least follow your example. This would be better for everyone.

[Xilizhra]

Seival wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
Just because one likes the concept of control does not mean one likes the endings, I like control, but the endings still and always will be garbage.

Yep, pretty much what I said, only with more diplomacy.

Well, you both accepted one of the endings, which is much better than a whining. In fact, that shows that you are able to make difficult decisions instead of whining about a "dire destiny". I think all haters should at least follow your example. This would be better for everyone.

Both are equally legitimate. If someone continues to dislike all of the endings enough to not pick one, that's their right, and I support them in doing so.

[Seival]

Xilizhra wrote...

Seival wrote...

CrutchCricket wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...
Just because one likes the concept of control does not mean one likes the endings, I like control, but the endings still and always will be garbage.

Yep, pretty much what I said, only with more diplomacy.

Well, you both accepted one of the endings, which is much better than a whining. In fact, that shows that you are able to make difficult decisions instead of whining about a "dire destiny". I think all haters should at least follow your example. This would be better for everyone.

Both are equally legitimate. If someone continues to dislike all of the endings enough to not pick one, that's their right, and I support them in doing so.

Well, I guess I can understand those people too. But only if they are not whining, or asking for a remake. They should understand that they paid for writers' work, not for a mandate to override something... Even in case of last 10  minutes of a game.

[DoomsdayDevice]

Javik: Subjugating the Reapers will not bring victory, only extinction will.

[MegaSovereign]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Javik: Subjugating the Reapers will not bring victory, only extinction will.

But the The Illusive Man was right after all.

[Seival]

MegaSovereign wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Javik: Subjugating the Reapers will not bring victory, only extinction will.

But the The Illusive Man was right after all.

TIM was right about Control possibility indeed...

...And Javik was wrong about his attitude towards synthetics in general. People like him were one of the reasons for the original Catalyst to start and sustain the Cycles.

Modifié par Seival, 29 septembre 2012 - 09:25 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

Seival wrote...

TIM was right about Control possibility indeed...

Yeah, because the Reaper AI tells you so.

Hey Shep, yeah we totally controlled TIM, so yeah, but you can totally control us. Because you're awesome and special.

Seems.legit.

Seival wrote...

...And Javik was wrong about his attitude towards synthetics in general. People like him were one of the reasons for the original Catalyst to start and sustain the Cycles.

Listen to yourself, you're indoctrinated.

What if you're wrong? Are you willing to bet humanity's existence on it? They won't let you.

People like Shepard are the reason the 'catalyst' is wrong, because Shep can make peace between the Geth and the Quarians. Peace on their own terms. Even if Shep does not accomplish that in game, there is evidence that synthetics will not necessarily wipe out organics; Legion explains that the Geth spared the Quarians even though they had the chance to exterminate them. They were unsure of the consequences of wiping out an entire race.

You're placing all your trust in a Reaper AI who tells you 'Yo dawg, I heard you don't wanna be killed by synthetics, so I made some synthetics to kill you every 50k years. So you won't be killed by synthetics. Oh by the way, you'll be turned into goo preserved in Reaper form.'

Seems. legit.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 29 septembre 2012 - 09:54 .

[Samtheman63]

Reaper Controlled TiM: pick controll shepard lol
Catalyst: Pick synthesis shepard everyone will be friends lol
Every ally you ever had: destroy the reapers.


can't dumb it down anymore than that

[Davik Kang]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...
What if you're wrong? Are you willing to bet humanity's existence on it? They won't let you.

DD, if you keep this up, Reapers will come to your house in the night and kill you.

[DoomsdayDevice]

TIM: Control is the means to survival lol *shoots himself in the head for being indoctrinated*

Saren: A union of flesh and steel lol. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither lol *shoots himself in the head for being indoctrinated*

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 29 septembre 2012 - 10:12 .

[masster blaster]

I am sorry, but Control you give Harbinger Shepard's mind.

" Struggle if you wish your mind will be MINE!"

In Control you struggle to stay up/hold on to the rods, and oh wait Shepard's mind is being transported into the Reaper network. ..." Your thought, your memories will be downloaded into a new framework.

Also TIM was Indoctrinated. You can't argue with that now can you. Also If you control the Reapers then why not order them to kill eachother. It's a win right, or wait you can't. Also when Shepard says " I will watch over the many..."l He/She means the Reapers, not the Galaxy.

Nazar " We are Legion we are many. Our numbers will darken the skys of every home world."

[Samtheman63]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

TIM: Control is the means to survival lol *shoots himself in the head for being indoctrinated*

Saren: A union of flesh and steel lol. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither lol *shoots himself in the head for being indoctrinated*

omfg hahahahaha

[Restrider]

Indoctrinated presence detected. Activating security protocol.

[masster blaster]

Seival The one Prothean that makes sense about you can't trust Synthetics, which the Catalyst is by definintion in Literal sense is right.

The god brat is the Leader of the Reapers, and have you read the Art of war? If you haven't then you should know that he talked about " Treate you enemys with the highest honor so you can get them on your side."

Control, and Synthesis the Catalyst want's.

He really want's you to pick Synthesis, but he doesn't mind you taking his job.

Also did it ever occured to you that the brat is still alive in Control, Synthesis, and refuse if taken literaly.

That tells me that he can still Control the Reapers. Do you honestly think he would give Shepard the power to control the Reapers. Hell no he wouldn't.

[Seival]

@ All recent "IT"ers and Destroyers above this post.

I can play the same game with Destory. Take a look:

"You had no doubts that you are going to destroy the Reapers in the end. Destroying the Reapers was your most desired thing. The Catalyst knows about it of course... So, what is the best way to indoctrinate Shepard? Make Shepard believe that she/he got what she/he desired. Create an illusion that the Reapers were destroyed. Destroy is clearly the indoctrinated ending. Shepard becomes a hask. Harvest continues." - Do you like that "theory"? Doubtful. And you are telling me the same thing about Control and Synthesis.



As I already said before. There is no "best" ending. There is no "canon" ending. There are three different ways to win (Control, Synthesis, and Destroy), and one way to lose (Refusal). If you doubt that your Shepard is ready for Control, then choose Synthesis or Destroy. If you want to give up, then choose Refusal. It's as easy as that.

Control is for the ones, who trust their Shepards completely. If you have no such trust, then don't even bother to analize the ending. Someone else failures (TIM, Saren, any similar person from the past) doesn't mean Shepard will fail. My Shepard will not fail, because I believe in that. You can pay soldier to fire a gun, you can pay him to charge an enemy and take a hill, but you can't pay him to believe... You know the rest of the speech. Shepard was born to do the impossible. If you can't 100% accept that, then you will never understand Control.

Modifié par Seival, 30 septembre 2012 - 12:25 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

Seival wrote...

@ All recent "IT"ers and Destroyers above this post.

I can play the same game with Destory. Take a look:

"You had no doubts that you are going to destroy the Reapers in the end. Destroying the Reapers was your most desired thing. The Catalyst knows about it of course... So, what is the best way to indoctrinate Shepard? Make Shepard believe that she/he got what she/he desired. Create an illusion that the Reapers were destroyed. Destroy is clearly the indoctrinated ending. Shepard becomes a hask. Harvest continues." - Do you like that "theory"? Doubtful. And you are telling me the same thing about Control and Synthesis.

Except the game beats you over the head with the message that the only way to beat them is to destroy them. Only the villains believe otherwise. All your allies tell you to give them no quarter. Everyone we know of who tried to control them, became indoctrinated. Hell, it's the reason the Protheans fell. A faction that turned out to be indoctrinated wanted to use the crucible to control the Reapers.

There's literally only bad precedents and bad references for control.

Just consider the fact that TIM thought he could control the Reapers, and Saren advocated synthesis.  Both were indoctrinated.

Are you saying the point of the game is that all your friends and allies were all wrong and the villains were actually right all along?

Also, in the EC endings, in the synthesis and control ending, the soldier fighting in the streets is losing the fight. A husk throws himself upon him and he's about to die when the wave hits. Identical sequence for both endings.

In destroy, however, the soldier keeps fighting. He shoots the husk, he is not overcome. He shoots several more. They keep closing in, but he just keeps fighting until the wave hits.

Shepard: If you had saved them all, would things have worked out better?
Vega: I... I don't know. I don't think so.
Shepard: The right choice is usually not the easy one

[Seival]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Seival wrote...

@ All recent "IT"ers and Destroyers above this post.

I can play the same game with Destory. Take a look:

"You had no doubts that you are going to destroy the Reapers in the end. Destroying the Reapers was your most desired thing. The Catalyst knows about it of course... So, what is the best way to indoctrinate Shepard? Make Shepard believe that she/he got what she/he desired. Create an illusion that the Reapers were destroyed. Destroy is clearly the indoctrinated ending. Shepard becomes a hask. Harvest continues." - Do you like that "theory"? Doubtful. And you are telling me the same thing about Control and Synthesis.

Except the game beats you over the head with the message that the only way to beat them is to destroy them. Only the villains believe otherwise. All your allies tell you to give them no quarter. Everyone we know of who tried to control them, became indoctrinated. Hell, it's the reason the Protheans fell. A faction that turned out to be indoctrinated wanted to use the crucible to control the Reapers.

There's literally only bad precedents and bad references for control.

Just consider the fact that TIM thought he could control the Reapers, and Saren advocated synthesis.  Both were indoctrinated.

Are you saying the point of the game is that all your friends and allies were all wrong and the villains were actually right all along?

Also, in the EC endings, in the synthesis and control ending, the soldier fighting in the streets is losing the fight. A husk throws himself upon him and he's about to die when the wave hits. Identical sequence for both endings.

In destroy, however, the soldier keeps fighting. He shoots the husk, he is not overcome. He shoots several more. They keep closing in, but he just keeps fighting until the wave hits.

Shepard: If you had saved them all, would things have worked out better?
Vega: I... I don't know. I don't think so.
Shepard: The right choice is usually not the easy one

Saying "the only way to stop the Reapers is to destroy them" through the entire game, and then suddenly showing that the antagonist was right about control possibility is actually the brilliant "turn of events", which make story really good and unpredictable...

...But looks like you take those events too literally. You just played too many games and watched too many movies with "disney endings". You got used to standard holywoodish fairy tales, and can't imagine anything but silly happy endings for all stories around. I think that really deep and instructive stories are just too complicated for you for now.

Modifié par Seival, 30 septembre 2012 - 04:14 .

[DoomsdayDevice]

Seival wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Seival wrote...

@ All recent "IT"ers and Destroyers above this post.

I can play the same game with Destory. Take a look:

"You had no doubts that you are going to destroy the Reapers in the end. Destroying the Reapers was your most desired thing. The Catalyst knows about it of course... So, what is the best way to indoctrinate Shepard? Make Shepard believe that she/he got what she/he desired. Create an illusion that the Reapers were destroyed. Destroy is clearly the indoctrinated ending. Shepard becomes a hask. Harvest continues." - Do you like that "theory"? Doubtful. And you are telling me the same thing about Control and Synthesis.

Except the game beats you over the head with the message that the only way to beat them is to destroy them. Only the villains believe otherwise. All your allies tell you to give them no quarter. Everyone we know of who tried to control them, became indoctrinated. Hell, it's the reason the Protheans fell. A faction that turned out to be indoctrinated wanted to use the crucible to control the Reapers.

There's literally only bad precedents and bad references for control.

Just consider the fact that TIM thought he could control the Reapers, and Saren advocated synthesis.  Both were indoctrinated.

Are you saying the point of the game is that all your friends and allies were all wrong and the villains were actually right all along?

Also, in the EC endings, in the synthesis and control ending, the soldier fighting in the streets is losing the fight. A husk throws himself upon him and he's about to die when the wave hits. Identical sequence for both endings.

In destroy, however, the soldier keeps fighting. He shoots the husk, he is not overcome. He shoots several more. They keep closing in, but he just keeps fighting until the wave hits.

Shepard: If you had saved them all, would things have worked out better?
Vega: I... I don't know. I don't think so.
Shepard: The right choice is usually not the easy one

Saying "the only way to stop the Reapers is to destroy them" through the entire game, and then suddenly showing that the antagonist was right about control possibility is actually the brilliant "turn of events", which make story really good and unpredictable...

...But looks like you take those events too literally. You just played too many games and watched too many movies with "disney endings". You got used to standard holywoodish fairy tales, and can't imagine anything but silly happy endings for all stories around. I think deep stories are just too complicated for you right now.

Ah, so we're resorting to ad hominems now, because we're running out of good arguments?

I have nothing with silly happy Disney endings. I freaking love the end of ME3, it's the best ending to any game ever. Because of indoc. They try to fool and indoctrinate the player. They let you consciously make that choice to betray everything you stood for. It's brilliant.

The problem with your interpretation, the anatagonist being right, is that it runs counter to all the lore of the games. It makes the whole story pointless if we should have just gone along with Saren from day one. It's not brilliant, it's bizarre.

The Reapers are an abomination, each and every one of them was built by processing millions of organics into goo. What you do in control is that you let the genocidal machines live, because you're a power hungry dictator. And you do all of that without having any guarantee that the whole thing will work out as promised. You are betting all the organic races' existence on it. You relinquish your form, you are 'preserved' as an AI, without any guarantee that you're not just living inside the 'Reaper Matrix' from now on. The control ending in the EC is extremely ambiguous.  "The many" might as well simply refer to the Reapers. 

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 30 septembre 2012 - 04:26 .

[Davik Kang]

Yo look I wanna do the unspeakable and stick up for Seival here...

The way I understand it, indoctrination plays a part in the final scenes. The Reapers, or the StarKid iof you think he's a different entity to them, want you to pick Control or Synthesis. It makes Shepard one of them, or part of them in some way.

But you don't have to see it like this. Indoctrination is presented as a possible interpretation of the endings by the writers... I will argue this as a fact, to anybody. But I don't think for one moment that it was meant to be the only interpretation.

You can take what the kid says at face value. You can agree with him. You can consider indoctrination as a possibility, and then discard it, based on the StarKid's logic.

As far as I am concerned, that is a crazy thing to do, because I figured that the Kid was probably trying to indoctrinate me, so I chose Destroy as a lesser evil, to avoid the terrible consequences if I was right. To me, Control seemed to be the choice of the power-hungry. Someone arrogant enough to think they could control the Reapers for the power of good, or for the promotion of technology, or whatever intentions they desired.

But just because I thought this, doesn't mean I was right. Maybe in thinking like this, Shepard threw away an incredible chance to make the galaxy a better place. To hone and control the most advanced race in the galaxy. To serve and protect humanity and all other races, without the need for conflict.

The point being, that it is open to interpretation. And Seival here is sticking up for the game's ending, but without resorting to a comforting 'High EMS Destroy' route. I might think he/she is insane, but the fact is, having people espouse this POV makes the game better, the ending better, and these forums better, because we actually have stuff to talk about. Not right and wrong, just opinions.

Anyway, that's all. Didn't mean to openly criticise anyone. Just think this thread is not such a bad thing.

[DoomsdayDevice]

I'm not saying this thread is bad thing. I'm just challenging someone's views, which is, you know, the purpose of a discussion forum.

[Seival]

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Seival wrote...

DoomsdayDevice wrote...

Seival wrote...

@ All recent "IT"ers and Destroyers above this post.

I can play the same game with Destory. Take a look:

"You had no doubts that you are going to destroy the Reapers in the end. Destroying the Reapers was your most desired thing. The Catalyst knows about it of course... So, what is the best way to indoctrinate Shepard? Make Shepard believe that she/he got what she/he desired. Create an illusion that the Reapers were destroyed. Destroy is clearly the indoctrinated ending. Shepard becomes a hask. Harvest continues." - Do you like that "theory"? Doubtful. And you are telling me the same thing about Control and Synthesis.

Except the game beats you over the head with the message that the only way to beat them is to destroy them. Only the villains believe otherwise. All your allies tell you to give them no quarter. Everyone we know of who tried to control them, became indoctrinated. Hell, it's the reason the Protheans fell. A faction that turned out to be indoctrinated wanted to use the crucible to control the Reapers.

There's literally only bad precedents and bad references for control.

Just consider the fact that TIM thought he could control the Reapers, and Saren advocated synthesis.  Both were indoctrinated.

Are you saying the point of the game is that all your friends and allies were all wrong and the villains were actually right all along?

Also, in the EC endings, in the synthesis and control ending, the soldier fighting in the streets is losing the fight. A husk throws himself upon him and he's about to die when the wave hits. Identical sequence for both endings.

In destroy, however, the soldier keeps fighting. He shoots the husk, he is not overcome. He shoots several more. They keep closing in, but he just keeps fighting until the wave hits.

Shepard: If you had saved them all, would things have worked out better?
Vega: I... I don't know. I don't think so.
Shepard: The right choice is usually not the easy one

Saying "the only way to stop the Reapers is to destroy them" through the entire game, and then suddenly showing that the antagonist was right about control possibility is actually the brilliant "turn of events", which make story really good and unpredictable...

...But looks like you take those events too literally. You just played too many games and watched too many movies with "disney endings". You got used to standard holywoodish fairy tales, and can't imagine anything but silly happy endings for all stories around. I think deep stories are just too complicated for you right now.

Ah, so we're resorting to ad hominems now, because we're running out of good arguments?

I have nothing with silly happy Disney endings. I freaking love the end of ME3, it's the best ending to any game ever. Because of indoc. They try to fool and indoctrinate the player. They let you consciously make that choice to betray everything you stood for. It's brilliant.

The problem with your interpretation, the anatagonist being right, is that it runs counter to all the lore of the games. It makes the whole story pointless if we should have just gone along with Saren from day one. It's not brilliant, it's bizarre.

The Reapers are an abomination, each and every one of them was built by processing millions of organics into goo. What you do in control is that you let the genocidal machines live, because you're a power hungry dictator. And you do all of that without having any guarantee that the whole thing will work out as promised. You are betting all the organic races' existence on it. You relinquish your form, you are 'preserved' as an AI, without any guarantee that you're not just living inside the 'Reaper Matrix' from now on. The control ending in the EC is extremely ambiguous.  "The many" might as well simply refer to the Reapers. 

"IT" is a nice fan-fiction and a very good joke. But when some people start to talk about it seriously, "IT" becomes a nonsense. Moreover, an insulting nonsense. I like jokes, but I can't tolerate an insulting nonsense.

You clearly like the Destroy ending very much. You have your own support thread to discuss that. But trolling the opposing ending camp is wrong. So please, keep your jokes and nonsense ideas within "IT" discussion thread.