Dude I just tried to defend you, but when I see posts like this, I can see I made a mistake.Seival wrote...
"IT" is a nice fan-fiction and a very good joke. But when some people start to talk about it seriously, "IT" becomes a nonsense. Moreover, an insulting nonsense. I like jokes, but I can't tolerate an insulting nonsense.
Davik Kang wrote...
Dude I just tried to defend you, but when I see posts like this, I can see I made a mistake.Seival wrote...
"IT" is a nice fan-fiction and a very good joke. But when some people start to talk about it seriously, "IT" becomes a nonsense. Moreover, an insulting nonsense. I like jokes, but I can't tolerate an insulting nonsense.
You gotta chill. No-one's talking nonsense. We're just analysing the game. You won't get much respect if you spout off like that.
Seival wrote...
That's my opinion, and my way to defend Control ending (and endings in general) from something completely alien to the game.
Interpretations are acceptable. Parodies are acceptable. But using a parody as a "serious interpretation" is silly, and can provoke nothing but negative reaction.
you know TiM is indoctrinated right? and he tells you control is the best option? that means the reapers are telling you to pick control.Seival wrote...
Davik Kang wrote...
Dude I just tried to defend you, but when I see posts like this, I can see I made a mistake.Seival wrote...
"IT" is a nice fan-fiction and a very good joke. But when some people start to talk about it seriously, "IT" becomes a nonsense. Moreover, an insulting nonsense. I like jokes, but I can't tolerate an insulting nonsense.
You gotta chill. No-one's talking nonsense. We're just analysing the game. You won't get much respect if you spout off like that.
That's my opinion, and my way to defend Control ending (and endings in general) from something completely alien to the game.
Interpretations are acceptable. Parodies are acceptable. But using a parody as a "serious interpretation" is silly, and can provoke nothing but negative reaction.
Davik Kang wrote...
Seival wrote...
That's my opinion, and my way to defend Control ending (and endings in general) from something completely alien to the game.
Interpretations are acceptable. Parodies are acceptable. But using a parody as a "serious interpretation" is silly, and can provoke nothing but negative reaction.
But why is it a parody? You just seem to be dismissing indoctrination as nonsense, and your theory as correct.
I was trying to say both interpretations are vaild, but you're saying "Mine is valid, others are a joke"
...
TIM wanted control long before he was implanted, try again.Samtheman63 wrote...
you know TiM is indoctrinated right? and he tells you control is the best option? that means the reapers are telling you to pick control.
one of the fundamental reaper abilities is indoctrination, influencing your thoughts without you noticing.
And yet he was allowed to carry out an operation that resulted in the destruction of the Collectors and the new Reaper they were building?masster blaster wrote...
Crickt, If your are refering to Evoultion, then you know TIM wanted power at the end, and we wanted Humanity to be the dominate race in the galaxy. Yet he had Reaper vocies in his head, and his eyes are the same as Sarens Eyes.
Ah, so this was all just a plug for IT?masster blaster wrote...
Yes and that's were IT comes in, but I know you do want to talk about it, so I will go, but if you want to talk, then go to the IT thread.
Seival wrote...
Successful Control is not a theory. It's what we see in the game itself. While "IT" is based on "game shows something that wasn't actually happened... yes, we see that cut-scene, but that is just an illusion... we know the truth, because dream-plant told us about that".
CrutchCricket wrote...
Trolls, trolls everywhere!
As to the people actually presenting some interesting points, the question here is one of interpretation right?
I concede that your interpretation is possible, one of many. And though I prefer mine, I find it intriguing. It would then tell the tale of a hero who sacrificed everything, who did everything right but faltered at the last second and ended in tragedy.
Not all stories have to be happy.
But it's all interpretation. What you think we have here is the One Ring. Others think differently.
And I wouldn't place too much stock how many characters said this over than and in what capacity or indeed in total lore consistency. Everything about the Crucible is an eleventh-hour asspull, you don't seriously expect it to be a perfect fit with everything else in the trilogy do you? The fact is the Reapers were incomprehensible cosmic horrors, or close to it. But they got seriously downgraded to mere killbots at the last second. No righteous indignation about that one?
Things change. Direction changes. As much as I hate the endings and what they represent, this is just a fact of fiction. Control wasn't possible until the last 10 minutes. Then suddenly it was. Typically a change this big is given more time and in-game support to take. But hey, blame EA deadlines and "artistic integrity" for that one.
TiMs indcotrination started in the first contact war, since before he even knew about the reapers, try againCrutchCricket wrote...
TIM wanted control long before he was implanted, try again.Samtheman63 wrote...
you know TiM is indoctrinated right? and he tells you control is the best option? that means the reapers are telling you to pick control.
one of the fundamental reaper abilities is indoctrination, influencing your thoughts without you noticing.
A remake is a legitimate thing to ask for. Is it likely? That's a different question. But it may be asked for.Seival wrote...
Xilizhra wrote...
Both are equally legitimate. If someone continues to dislike all of the endings enough to not pick one, that's their right, and I support them in doing so.Seival wrote...
CrutchCricket wrote...
Yep, pretty much what I said, only with more diplomacy.Lizardviking wrote...
Just because one likes the concept of control does not mean one likes the endings, I like control, but the endings still and always will be garbage.
Well, you both accepted one of the endings, which is much better than a whining. In fact, that shows that you are able to make difficult decisions instead of whining about a "dire destiny". I think all haters should at least follow your example. This would be better for everyone.
Well, I guess I can understand those people too. But only if they are not whining, or asking for a remake. They should understand that they paid for writers' work, not for a mandate to override something... Even in case of last 10 minutes of a game.
Seival wrote...
Successful Control is not a theory. It's what we see in the game itself. While "IT" is based on "game shows something that wasn't actually happened... yes, we see that cut-scene, but that is just an illusion... we know the truth, because dream-plant told us about that".
Davik Kang wrote...
Seival wrote...
Successful Control is not a theory. It's what we see in the game itself. While "IT" is based on "game shows something that wasn't actually happened... yes, we see that cut-scene, but that is just an illusion... we know the truth, because dream-plant told us about that".
Ok that's a fair point. However I think dismissing IT or similar ideas as 'parody' is pushing it too far. I guess there's been a lot of antagonism between you and various IT supporters, so maybe that has made you more aggressive when arguing about IT?
The thing about the ending, at least in my view, is that the possibility you are indoctrinated is very much intentional. It's not at all random fan-fic to explain all the problems away. But just because it's there as a possible interpretation doesn't mean it's actually correct, and it doesn't mean Control or other endings are wrong choices.
Btw I don't agree that the whole end sequence is a dream or hallucination, but to me it's not even opinion, it's a fact that this interpretation is possible. There are too many clues, not even subtle ones, that point to this. But Control is presented more clearly and of course could be a correct ending. Doesn't have to be a mistake.
Modifié par Seival, 30 septembre 2012 - 06:02 .
Seival wrote...
CrutchCricket wrote...
Yep, pretty much what I said, only with more diplomacy.Lizardviking wrote...
Just because one likes the concept of control does not mean one likes the endings, I like control, but the endings still and always will be garbage.
Well, you both accepted one of the endings, which is much better than a whining. In fact, that shows that you are able to make difficult decisions instead of whining about a "dire destiny". I think all haters should at least follow your example. This would be better for everyone.
Seival wrote...
"IT" is a nice fan-fiction and a very good joke. But when some people start to talk about it seriously, "IT" becomes a nonsense. Moreover, an insulting nonsense. I like jokes, but I can't tolerate an insulting nonsense.
You clearly like the Destroy ending very much. You have your own support thread to discuss that. But trolling the opposing ending camp is wrong. So please, keep your jokes and nonsense ideas within "IT" discussion thread.
Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 30 septembre 2012 - 06:09 .
DoomsdayDevice wrote...
Seival wrote...
"IT" is a nice fan-fiction and a very good joke. But when some people start to talk about it seriously, "IT" becomes a nonsense. Moreover, an insulting nonsense. I like jokes, but I can't tolerate an insulting nonsense.
You clearly like the Destroy ending very much. You have your own support thread to discuss that. But trolling the opposing ending camp is wrong. So please, keep your jokes and nonsense ideas within "IT" discussion thread.
I am not joking with you at all. All I do is provide arguments based on in-game lore, and all you can do is make ad hominems against me and call it fan fiction and nonsense.
I'm not trolling your thread, I'm simply challenging your views.
But it's clear you have no more real arguments to counter mine, because you keep stooping to the level of petty insults instead or addressing my arguments with proper arguments of your own. Too bad.
I'll leave you to it, then.
Modifié par Seival, 30 septembre 2012 - 06:22 .
Lizardviking wrote...
Seival wrote...
CrutchCricket wrote...
Yep, pretty much what I said, only with more diplomacy.Lizardviking wrote...
Just because one likes the concept of control does not mean one likes the endings, I like control, but the endings still and always will be garbage.
Well, you both accepted one of the endings, which is much better than a whining. In fact, that shows that you are able to make difficult decisions instead of whining about a "dire destiny". I think all haters should at least follow your example. This would be better for everyone.
I do not follow you, how is stopping playing the game at the last 10 minutes less admirable?
I haven't been the remotest bit snarky with you. Why resort to this kind of petulance?Seival wrote...
Why do you consider keeping "IT" parody-oriented as a "dismiss"? Nice jokes are always welcome.
It's really not as simple as that. You are not advocating Control as a valid ending, you are trying to claim that alternate interpretations are not grounded in the narrative of the game.Seival wrote...
The failed mind-control attempt was shown in conversation with TIM. This is all we need to know about indoctrination in last minutes of the game. All we have to do after that - is to make moral choice to win (Control, Synthesis, Destroy), or to lose (Refusal), and see the consequences of our choice in the Epilogue. It's as simple as that.
Modifié par Davik Kang, 30 septembre 2012 - 06:35 .
Seival wrote...
Lizardviking wrote...
Seival wrote...
CrutchCricket wrote...
Yep, pretty much what I said, only with more diplomacy.Lizardviking wrote...
Just because one likes the concept of control does not mean one likes the endings, I like control, but the endings still and always will be garbage.
Well, you both accepted one of the endings, which is much better than a whining. In fact, that shows that you are able to make difficult decisions instead of whining about a "dire destiny". I think all haters should at least follow your example. This would be better for everyone.
I do not follow you, how is stopping playing the game at the last 10 minutes less admirable?
You prefer the Control, so I think that means you played the game till the end. Even if you didn't actually played, but just chosen the ending based on what do you know. And this is much better than a whining.
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