4520 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

Just finished new picture about the ending:

[CrutchCricket]

Nice.

[Seival]

Thanks

[Red Panda]

That picture is awesome.

[Seival]

I decided to revamp the OP, because eventually it became quite outdated.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Pretty decent artwork.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I have a sincere question for Control-supporters. In ME2, EDI staes "When two AI weapon programs are pitted against each other, the one with superior hardware will always win." Shepard is a single human, so how can Shepard's mind assume control over the Catalyst, whio embodies every single Reaper, each of whom consist of the collective brainpower of millions of people?

[DirtyPhoenix]

Vored wrote...

I'm also a supporter of control. The one thing I'll never understand is why everyone wants to let the Reapers fly into a sun.

It makes no sense; Shepard sacrificed her physical lifeform to gain control of the Reapers and use them to protect or to have a giant army. Why assume control when you want to destroy them?

I'd never understand that either. Especially the bolded part. Ultiately I come to the conclusion..

CrutchCricket wrote...

Because some people have no imagination.

Because wanting anything other than to destroy the reapers is EVUL!!!

[Lars Honeytoast]

People would choose control and have the Reapers fly into the sun because then it is the same ending as destroy but the geth and edi still live. Pretty simple, really.


That being said, I'm not one of those people. I choose control because my main Shepard is a pure paragon, and even if he himself is dead, a program that runs the reapers based on his personality could be nothing but good for society. Always constructive and nonviolent.

I'm running a Renegade right now though, and I still don't know what this dude would choose. Probably destroy or refuse.

[Ageless Face]

Huh. This thread still exists? Cool.

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

I have a sincere question for Control-supporters. In ME2, EDI staes "When two AI weapon programs are pitted against each other, the one with superior hardware will always win." Shepard is a single human, so how can Shepard's mind assume control over the Catalyst, whio embodies every single Reaper, each of whom consist of the collective brainpower of millions of people?

It could be because therr wasn't any fight which Shep needed to win. The Catalyst already assumed control of the Reapers,and he sort of passed the control of them on to Shep.

[Eterna]

I choose Control because I'm a strong believer in Kantianism. Human beings are unable to fully commit to such a philosophy as it would require an individual to be completely impartial; human bias and emotion ultimately prevents us from becoming truly impartial.

When my Shepard chooses control She becomes impartial and can achieve this state.  I have other reasons, but this is a strong one.

Modifié par Eterna5, 22 janvier 2013 - 07:03 .

[Seival]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

I have a sincere question for Control-supporters. In ME2, EDI staes "When two AI weapon programs are pitted against each other, the one with superior hardware will always win." Shepard is a single human, so how can Shepard's mind assume control over the Catalyst, whio embodies every single Reaper, each of whom consist of the collective brainpower of millions of people?

The answer is in OP:

Eternal... Infinite... Immortal... High risk, incredible effort, ultimate self-sacrifice, and unfathomable responsibility. This is what Control ending about. Surrender everything you are to the Catalyst to change its personality, and force it to think like you. Some of you might wonder why? The original Catalyst already tried everything but Synthesis to find the solution. It even admitted that Cycled Harvests were only temporary solution, which eventually became obsolete. What will change with the new Catalyst?... This is the question only you can answer, dear reader. Because everything depends on who was your Shepard as a human being...

It's not about "grabbing control rods" or "attaching Shepard to the machine". It's about giving the Catalyst your Shepard's personality, forcing the Catalyst to think and act like Shepard would.

Modifié par Seival, 22 janvier 2013 - 08:28 .

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The "forcing the Catalyst to think and act like Shepard would" is my question. Example: When EDI fought EVA for control of her mobile platform, EDI was the stronger and thus was able to dominate EVA. EVA didn't change EDI in the slightest. Back to point: The Catalyst states he is the collective intelligence of all Reapers, each of which have the brainpower millions of times stronger. How is one human mind capable of forcing a collectively powered entity to think ina new way, let alone that human's way?

[tilusN7]

It's not about whether Shepard is strong enough to dominate the reapers.

The catalyst knows his solution is flawed. He has stated that Shepard making it to him, the first organic ever, proves his solution no longer works (not really sure why). Together with the Catalyst's knowledge, and perhaps Shepard's wisdom, they form a new construct with a new plan.

What that plan is, is left up to the player. To dominate the galaxy as a fierce dictator, to leave the races alone and allow them to sort themselves out, or to be the omnipresent guardian who steps in only to prevent another war, not to destroy the current advanced races.

This is why control is the most open ended of the three choices. Perhaps also why it's the least liked.

[AmillB]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The "forcing the Catalyst to think and act like Shepard would" is my question. Example: When EDI fought EVA for control of her mobile platform, EDI was the stronger and thus was able to dominate EVA. EVA didn't change EDI in the slightest. Back to point: The Catalyst states he is the collective intelligence of all Reapers, each of which have the brainpower millions of times stronger. How is one human mind capable of forcing a collectively powered entity to think ina new way, let alone that human's way?

I'm no expert on Control, but it looks like the difference between your two examples is that Eva actually fought and the Catalyst didn't. EDI had to force her way in as Eva became defensive, unwilling to give up the body, yet the Catalyst held the door wide open for Shepard. It said it's solution wouldn't work anymore, right? So it was willingly looking for an alternative and Shepard was the only able body available. I don't think neither the Catalyst nor Shepard had to "force" each other to do anything in that situation. It appears like it just naturally happened.

Of course, I think we'd have a better explanation if more information was presented on exactly how Shepard could become the "new Catalyst," but this is the best I can come up with.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

The main problem I have with the Catalyst being a willing participant, is that his dialogue suggests he is not. "And I am not looking foward to being replaced by you, but I would be forced to accept it." The fact he is forced means that his mind and Shepard's will engage each other for dominance. That goes back to my question of if Catalyst and Shepard have to engage each other, how does Shepard win that mental clash for dominance?

Sorry if I'm being a bother, but this has always confused me.

Modifié par LDS Darth Revan, 23 janvier 2013 - 06:22 .

[Ageless Face]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The main problem I have with the Catalyst being a willing participant, is that his dialogue suggests he is not. "And I am not looking foward to being replaced by you, but I would be forced to accept it." The fact he is forced means that his mind and Shepard's will engage each other for dominance. That goes back to my question of if Catalyst and Shepard have to engage each other, how does Shepard win that mental clash for dominance?

Sorry if I'm being a bother, but this has always confused me.

The Catalyst will be forced to accept it as the Crucible had forced him  to tink of new alternatives, and he believes Shepard replacing him will be better than controlling the Reapers himself. even if he dislikes the idea, his programming cannot afford him being an egoist (if an AI can even be one...) and go against his orders.

And you are not a bother at all. Someone who asks out of real curiousity and not just to cause annoyance is getting rather rare.

[tilusN7]

LDS Darth Revan wrote...

The main problem I have with the Catalyst being a willing participant, is that his dialogue suggests he is not. "And I am not looking foward to being replaced by you, but I would be forced to accept it." The fact he is forced means that his mind and Shepard's will engage each other for dominance. That goes back to my question of if Catalyst and Shepard have to engage each other, how does Shepard win that mental clash for dominance?

Sorry if I'm being a bother, but this has always confused me.

I don't get how he isn't willing though. He is the one who presents Shepard with the options. If he isn't willing to go along with the choices he himself presents, then what's the point of the choice.

This is probably us trying to figure out bad writing though, not necessarily a problem with either point of view, whether he is willing or unwilling in his participation.

It's not a bother at all, it's a discussion, this is what the writers wanted.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Just finished DE: HR a few days ago. What a game. Interestingly, I ended up choosing control there as well

[Nightdragon8]

tilusN7 wrote...

It's not about whether Shepard is strong enough to dominate the reapers.

The catalyst knows his solution is flawed. He has stated that Shepard making it to him, the first organic ever, proves his solution no longer works (not really sure why). Together with the Catalyst's knowledge, and perhaps Shepard's wisdom, they form a new construct with a new plan.

What that plan is, is left up to the player. To dominate the galaxy as a fierce dictator, to leave the races alone and allow them to sort themselves out, or to be the omnipresent guardian who steps in only to prevent another war, not to destroy the current advanced races.

This is why control is the most open ended of the three choices. Perhaps also why it's the least liked.

its the least liked for 2 reasons, Shep = 100% dead. and is the least understood.

And really from what you are saying that "Shep will stop wars" pretty much makes any sort of ME4 not possible. because if the Reapers are going to swoop in and solve all the problems then really no real reason for a ME4... Unless its going to be an Empire building game. (Yes i would love to see one of those for the ME universe)

[Ageless Face]

Nightdragon8 wrote...
its the least liked for 2 reasons, Shep = 100% dead. and is the least understood.

And really from what you are saying that "Shep will stop wars" pretty much makes any sort of ME4 not possible. because if the Reapers are going to swoop in and solve all the problems then really no real reason for a ME4... Unless its going to be an Empire building game. (Yes i would love to see one of those for the ME universe)

Funny, Considering so many people who choose destroy say they don't give a damm about Shepard, but the Reapers being dead is important here.

And having there can always be something more powerful than the Reapers, or equal to it. You can even have a game about the antagoinist acquiring schematics to build their own Reapers. It will work for all the three endings, actually.

But I thought people mostly hated control because they fear AIShep turning evil...

Modifié par HagarIshay, 23 janvier 2013 - 07:37 .

[tilusN7]

Nightdragon8 wrote...

its the least liked for 2 reasons, Shep = 100% dead. and is the least understood.

And really from what you are saying that "Shep will stop wars" pretty much makes any sort of ME4 not possible. because if the Reapers are going to swoop in and solve all the problems then really no real reason for a ME4... Unless its going to be an Empire building game. (Yes i would love to see one of those for the ME universe)

I think it would be cool to see the Mass Effect universe in another genre. I'd love to see an Empire at War mod for it not unlike the one being made for Stargate.

I don't consider that Shepard is 100% dead necessarily. Their thoughts still exist in the new Catalyst, in one way or another. I've been thinking about a possible way for Shepard to come back from control as part of an idea, but I don't think I'd want it to actually happen based on what i've thought up so far.

Shepard stopping wars is one possible outcome dependent on how the player imagines what'll happen, and we don't really know if ME4 is even going to be a sequel yet, though i'm really hoping it will be. 

I actually prefer control before the extended cut, not after it. As someone mentioned earlier, my plan was to control the reapers long enough to repair the relays then fly them into a star.

[Hadeedak]

I think there's a lot of reasons control freaks people out. I don't know that it's the least popular, but it's got some strong authoritarian themes (in fact, it's the only one I like less after the Extended Cut). That being said, there's plenty of room for interpretation, and I think the message in the end is one of sacrifice to preserve the status quo, as opposed to the unknowns of synthesis and destroy.

I like Control a lot. I wish AIShep was a bit more mechanical and alien in her dialogue at the end, but there's only so much time for that, after all.

[Kataphrut94]

I don't believe the Reapers being able to intervene puts a dampener on future games at all. If the Reapers are really the biggest fish in the pond, then I can't imagine them getting involved in anything short of another major galactic war. I think the devs have gone on record to say they plan on moving a way from the military superman type of thing in future games, so what would a Reaper have to do with, say, a smuggler on Omega getting caught up in a turf war, or a quarian on pilgrimage getting ambushed by batarian slavers?

[tilusN7]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

I don't believe the Reapers being able to intervene puts a dampener on future games at all. If the Reapers are really the biggest fish in the pond, then I can't imagine them getting involved in anything short of another major galactic war. I think the devs have gone on record to say they plan on moving a way from the military superman type of thing in future games, so what would a Reaper have to do with, say, a smuggler on Omega getting caught up in a turf war, or a quarian on pilgrimage getting ambushed by batarian slavers?

Agreed. I'd personally have the reapers just leave, let the galaxy evolve further without their intervention. Thats why I more or less planned to turn control into destroy before the extended cut was released.

I think it is interesting how long the 'united galaxy' will last after the reaper war ends. Even if you get the best possible ending where everyone is happy and there's no reapers, there's still going to be animosity between many people for at least a generation. Except maybe the geth since they process things very quickly.