4520 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

I have this theory about our society, and why more people don't pick Control. Really, its just based on the stuff I see in the popular media more than anything else. Anyway it goes like this:
- We have been programmed/taught to eschew power, so the people that have it or want it can keep it.
- Control offers the player the MOST power. To some (like me) it is a sort of last wish, to guide the society we've explored and tried to save. Not a wish that society can ignore. To others it is a transformation or transcendence into a powerful being which will dominate over all.

Also, this feeds into my theory on why people don't like the ending - because all options except Refuse force the player into a massive execution of power. Sure people argue about violations of consent, slippery moral slopes, potentials, atrocities, etc, but at base all of that comes from being given power, being afraid of it,and being judged for using it.

Really, power can be pretty scarey.

Modifié par Obadiah, 23 janvier 2013 - 11:32 .

[CynicalShep]

HagarIshay wrote...

JasonShepard wrote...
 It doesn't really matter how many people like Control.

Unfourtenatly, it does. Apperantly the fanbase decided the unpopular endings don't get to be in the next game.

And if BioWare will listen to them too much, they might see it as a sign of approval.

"Bioware will listen to them too much":D
You need not worry, that's very unlikely

Steelcan wrote...

Seival wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

No one man should have all that power.

Catalyst is not "a man". It's an AI program. Power can't corrupt a program.

Shepard dies in Control ending. Dies to change the original Catalyst way of thinking.

Catalyst remains, Shepard dies. Nothing that can be corrupted by power remains.

. It could easily be said that Shepard has entirely replaced the original Catalyst 

I thought the game made it obvious that this is exactly what happens. There is no cooperation, an AI based on Shepard is made and it replaces that smug kid

[xAmilli0n]

CynicalShep wrote...

I thought the game made it obvious that this is exactly what happens. There is no cooperation, an AI based on Shepard is made and it replaces that smug kid

I've heard it two ways.  Either Shep completely replaced the Catalyst, or Shep's personality/memories are implanted into the Catalyst.

[jtav]

Catalyst speaks of being replaced, so I don't think there's anything left.

[CynicalShep]

xAmilli0n wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

I thought the game made it obvious that this is exactly what happens. There is no cooperation, an AI based on Shepard is made and it replaces that smug kid

I've heard it two ways.  Either Shep completely replaced the Catalyst, or Shep's personality/memories are implanted into the Catalyst.

So you either make a new AI or rewrite the old one. Unless we'll get a AI with two personalities that will be fighting each other I don't think it really matters

[xAmilli0n]

CynicalShep wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

I thought the game made it obvious that this is exactly what happens. There is no cooperation, an AI based on Shepard is made and it replaces that smug kid

I've heard it two ways.  Either Shep completely replaced the Catalyst, or Shep's personality/memories are implanted into the Catalyst.

So you either make a new AI or rewrite the old one. Unless we'll get a AI with two personalities that will be fighting each other I don't think it really matters

Well, the one implication with rewritting is that it is not completely Shepard.  It is still at its core the Catalyst.

Its a small difference, but can definitely alter interpretation.

[CynicalShep]

xAmilli0n wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

I thought the game made it obvious that this is exactly what happens. There is no cooperation, an AI based on Shepard is made and it replaces that smug kid

I've heard it two ways.  Either Shep completely replaced the Catalyst, or Shep's personality/memories are implanted into the Catalyst.

So you either make a new AI or rewrite the old one. Unless we'll get a AI with two personalities that will be fighting each other I don't think it really matters

Well, the one implication with rewritting is that it is not completely Shepard.  It is still at its core the Catalyst.

Its a small difference, but can definitely alter interpretation.

Well, it's definitely NOT Shepard. It's based on his memories and personality

[gmr89]

CynicalShep wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

I thought the game made it obvious that this is exactly what happens. There is no cooperation, an AI based on Shepard is made and it replaces that smug kid

I've heard it two ways.  Either Shep completely replaced the Catalyst, or Shep's personality/memories are implanted into the Catalyst.

So you either make a new AI or rewrite the old one. Unless we'll get a AI with two personalities that will be fighting each other I don't think it really matters

Well, the one implication with rewritting is that it is not completely Shepard.  It is still at its core the Catalyst.

Its a small difference, but can definitely alter interpretation.

Well, it's definitely NOT Shepard. It's based on his memories and personality

I say thats close enough to being Shepard.

[xAmilli0n]

CynicalShep wrote...

Well, it's definitely NOT Shepard. It's based on his memories and personality

Sure.  Its how much of it is Shep, and how much isn't that can intepreted.  Like I said, its a very small difference in thinking about it.

[CynicalShep]

xAmilli0n wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Well, it's definitely NOT Shepard. It's based on his memories and personality

Sure.  Its how much of it is Shep, and how much isn't that can intepreted.  Like I said, its a very small difference in thinking about it.

Unpredictablity is the main reason I second guess myself when I pick Control

[xAmilli0n]

CynicalShep wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Well, it's definitely NOT Shepard. It's based on his memories and personality

Sure.  Its how much of it is Shep, and how much isn't that can intepreted.  Like I said, its a very small difference in thinking about it.

Unpredictablity is the main reason I second guess myself when I pick Control

Understandably.  But I also find the unpredictability to be its appeal.  It allows for interpretation (more so than the others) and it fits perfectly with the story I wanted to tell about my Shepard.

[N-Seven]

xAmilli0n wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

xAmilli0n wrote...

CynicalShep wrote...

Well, it's definitely NOT Shepard. It's based on his memories and personality

Sure.  Its how much of it is Shep, and how much isn't that can intepreted.  Like I said, its a very small difference in thinking about it.

Unpredictablity is the main reason I second guess myself when I pick Control

Understandably.  But I also find the unpredictability to be its appeal.  It allows for interpretation (more so than the others) and it fits perfectly with the story I wanted to tell about my Shepard.

Indeed.  It can be a dark, flawed ending if you like.  Or, it can be a positive, uplifting ending.  If you believe your Shepard was a wise, just, incorruptible paragon, then perhaps the AI version of him/her would be the same.  Or if you believe your Shepard would become mad with power, then you can take that as your ending too.

Your god-Shep can be imagined to be whatever you want.   Nobody can tell you what your Shepard would do.  It's an ending you can take complete ownership of.

[ZajoE38]

I always wanted to try all endings. But I always have to chose control. It just seems the best option for the galaxy to keep it safe and with stable perspective to the future. I'm not taking chances with destroy, it's too risky. Synthesis is too rude. Forcing the evolution is against the nature. Life must find it's own way to evolve. I just wanted to say.. I support control )

[Eterna]

I'm rather tired of people saying AI can be corrupted by power, it is impossible for that to occur. Anyone who says it is doesn't understand how Synthetics operate in the Mass Effect universe.

Ai are driven by their programming, it doesn't matter if they're shackled on un shackled. Being corrupted by power is a completely organic state of mind, it requires an inborn sense of entitlement and greed. Ai do not have irrational mindsets or emotions as they are completely directed by their programming. Even if an AI was programmed to receive positive feedback from oppressing organic species its power would not be corrupting it, it would simply be following its program.

You'd have to provide an example where an AI in power has diverted from its original purpose by the sheer influence of power, this has never happened in the Mass Effect universe and I dont see why it would happen to the Shepalyst. Not even the Catalyst was corrupted by power.

[DirtyPhoenix]

gmr89 wrote...

I say thats close enough to being Shepard.

True. If someone copied my memories and thoughts I'd say he effectively created another me. To quote from another favourite game franchise of mine: "What is a man but the sum of his memories? We're the stories we live, the tales we tell ourselves."

Sure mine's not the only possible interpretation, others can obviously think different.. but that's the one I believe in and go by.

[Hey]

Eterna5 wrote...

I'm rather tired of people saying AI can be corrupted by power, it is impossible for that to occur. Anyone who says it is doesn't understand how Synthetics operate in the Mass Effect universe.

Ai are driven by their programming, it doesn't matter if they're shackled on un shackled. Being corrupted by power is a completely organic state of mind, it requires an inborn sense of entitlement and greed. Ai do not have irrational mindsets or emotions as they are completely directed by their programming. Even if an AI was programmed to receive positive feedback from oppressing organic species its power would not be corrupting it, it would simply be following its program.

You'd have to provide an example where an AI in power has diverted from its original purpose by the sheer influence of power, this has never happened in the Mass Effect universe and I dont see why it would happen to the Shepalyst. Not even the Catalyst was corrupted by power.

to me the corruption occurs accepting the power and tranforming into voltron 
It may be just fine tho... It certainly could be awesome

[Seival]

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Seival wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Seival wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

No one man should have all that power.

Catalyst is not "a man". It's an AI program. Power can't corrupt a program.

Shepard dies in Control ending. Dies to change the original Catalyst's way of thinking.

Catalyst remains, Shepard dies. Nothing that can be corrupted by power remains.

The geth heretics proved to be quite corruptible. Also why is necessary for Shepard to die to replace the Catalyst?

Corruptible? They just followed their initial code. They were convinced, not corrupted.

Do you remember how the Catalyst gathers information about organic beings? By harvesting them. That's why Shepard's sacrifice needed for Control and Synthesis.

The fact that some of the geth can be convinced to follow Sovereign on its quest to destroy organic life prove that even AI can be corrupted. Sovereign even left the heretics everything they'd need to corrupt the true geth and convince them to follow the reapers. 

So what youre trying to say is Shepard allows himself to be harvested? Implications unpleasant....

The thing you are talking about isn't "corruption by power", isn't "just corruption", and isn't even "hacking". It's "convincing". I'm surprised you don't see the difference.

In Control and Synthesis Shepard indeed allows herself to be harvested, and there is nothing bad in that. Shepard sacrifices herself for the greater good.

[Argolas]

pirate1802 wrote...

gmr89 wrote...

I say thats close enough to being Shepard.

True. If someone copied my memories and thoughts I'd say he effectively created another me. To quote from another favourite game franchise of mine: "What is a man but the sum of his memories? We're the stories we live, the tales we tell ourselves."

Sure mine's not the only possible interpretation, others can obviously think different.. but that's the one I believe in and go by.

To quote from one of my favourite ME3 ending interpretations:

Modifié par Argolas, 24 janvier 2013 - 11:05 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

Argolas wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

gmr89 wrote...

I say thats close enough to being Shepard.

True. If someone copied my memories and thoughts I'd say he effectively created another me. To quote from another favourite game franchise of mine: "What is a man but the sum of his memories? We're the stories we live, the tales we tell ourselves."

Sure mine's not the only possible interpretation, others can obviously think different.. but that's the one I believe in and go by.

To quote from one of my favourite ME3 ending interpretations:

You have your interpretation, I have mine. Problem solved.

[Argolas]

pirate1802 wrote...

You have your interpretation, I have mine. Problem solved.

Never had a problem with that

[Liamv2]

pirate1802 wrote...

Argolas wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

gmr89 wrote...

I say thats close enough to being Shepard.

True. If someone copied my memories and thoughts I'd say he effectively created another me. To quote from another favourite game franchise of mine: "What is a man but the sum of his memories? We're the stories we live, the tales we tell ourselves."

Sure mine's not the only possible interpretation, others can obviously think different.. but that's the one I believe in and go by.

To quote from one of my favourite ME3 ending interpretations:

You have your interpretation, I have mine. Problem solved.

This is BSN it doesen't work like that

[Seival]

Seival wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Seival wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Seival wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

No one man should have all that power.

Catalyst is not "a man". It's an AI program. Power can't corrupt a program.

Shepard dies in Control ending. Dies to change the original Catalyst's way of thinking.

Catalyst remains, Shepard dies. Nothing that can be corrupted by power remains.

The geth heretics proved to be quite corruptible. Also why is necessary for Shepard to die to replace the Catalyst?

Corruptible? They just followed their initial code. They were convinced, not corrupted.

Do you remember how the Catalyst gathers information about organic beings? By harvesting them. That's why Shepard's sacrifice needed for Control and Synthesis.

The fact that some of the geth can be convinced to follow Sovereign on its quest to destroy organic life prove that even AI can be corrupted. Sovereign even left the heretics everything they'd need to corrupt the true geth and convince them to follow the reapers. 

So what youre trying to say is Shepard allows himself to be harvested? Implications unpleasant....

The thing you are talking about isn't "corruption by power", isn't "just corruption", and isn't even "hacking". It's "convincing". I'm surprised you don't see the difference.

In Control and Synthesis Shepard indeed allows herself to be harvested, and there is nothing bad in that. Shepard sacrifices herself for the greater good.

Besides, the Reapers' task was always about protecting life, not destroying it.

[Argolas]

Seival wrote...

Besides, the Reapers' task was always about protecting life species, not destroying it.

Like that, at best. Once a species' Reaper is finished, or failed like in the Protheans' case, the rest of the matter is nothing more than genocide. The Protheans were all killed, and the Reapers hunt the remaining Leviathans as well since the Leviathan Reaper (Harby) was finished.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Argolas wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

You have your interpretation, I have mine. Problem solved.

Never had a problem with that

Good man.

[Linkforlife]

This may seem like a weird question that may have been brought up already, if it has been, I apologize, but the Leviathans want to control the Reapers for their own purposes, we see them take down a Reaper with no trouble, could Catalyst Shepard hold the Leviathans at bay while still providing security for the galaxy? The Leviathans ripped right into Shepard's mind before, I know he was organic at the time, but does becoming the Catalyst make his mind strong enough to resist the Leviathans' influence?