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[KwangtungTiger]

Seival wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

You make the Catalyst out to be some simple computer (Which goes against some of your previous threads). The Catalyst was an AI. It came to the CONCLUSION (Not programmed to that conclusion) that the Harvest was needed.

AIs base their conclusions on lower-level (i.e. much more complicated) programming. The original Catalyst was programmed to come to that kind of conclusion (even if that wasn't directly intended by original programmer).

And as you can see, the original Catalyst's programming eventually led it to the conclusion that Harvests became outdated. Remember the ending? It's was the Catalyst who suggested new solutions. Shepard could only choose (or refuse to cooperate).

 I've clearly showed you IN GAME proof about the catalyst and you refuse to see it. I CLEARLY remember the ending but it has no bearing on are current conversation. The catalyst had the power to come up with any conclusion to the synthetic/organic problem it deemded fitting. It came up with the harvest.

 The leviathans would have been smart enough to know when they programmed the catalyst that it would have turned against them if in fact it was in its programming.

 Your denial does not undermine the truth of this......

[Seival]

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Seival wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

You make the Catalyst out to be some simple computer (Which goes against some of your previous threads). The Catalyst was an AI. It came to the CONCLUSION (Not programmed to that conclusion) that the Harvest was needed.

AIs base their conclusions on lower-level (i.e. much more complicated) programming. The original Catalyst was programmed to come to that kind of conclusion (even if that wasn't directly intended by original programmer).

And as you can see, the original Catalyst's programming eventually led it to the conclusion that Harvests became outdated. Remember the ending? It's was the Catalyst who suggested new solutions. Shepard could only choose (or refuse to cooperate).

 I've clearly showed you IN GAME proof about the catalyst and you refuse to see it. I CLEARLY remember the ending but it has no bearing on are current conversation. The catalyst had the power to come up with any conclusion to the synthetic/organic problem it deemded fitting. It came up with the harvest.

 The leviathans would have been smart enough to know when they programmed the catalyst that it would have turned against them if in fact it was in its programming.

 Your denial does not undermine the truth of this......

It came up with the Harvest, which eventually became outdated in opinion of the one who started it.

Leviathan: "There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose". Its programmed purpose, intended purpose I want to remind.

[KwangtungTiger]

Seival wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Seival wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

You make the Catalyst out to be some simple computer (Which goes against some of your previous threads). The Catalyst was an AI. It came to the CONCLUSION (Not programmed to that conclusion) that the Harvest was needed.

AIs base their conclusions on lower-level (i.e. much more complicated) programming. The original Catalyst was programmed to come to that kind of conclusion (even if that wasn't directly intended by original programmer).

And as you can see, the original Catalyst's programming eventually led it to the conclusion that Harvests became outdated. Remember the ending? It's was the Catalyst who suggested new solutions. Shepard could only choose (or refuse to cooperate).

 I've clearly showed you IN GAME proof about the catalyst and you refuse to see it. I CLEARLY remember the ending but it has no bearing on are current conversation. The catalyst had the power to come up with any conclusion to the synthetic/organic problem it deemded fitting. It came up with the harvest.

 The leviathans would have been smart enough to know when they programmed the catalyst that it would have turned against them if in fact it was in its programming.

 Your denial does not undermine the truth of this......

It came up with the Harvest, which eventually became outdated in opinion of the one who started it.

Leviathan: "There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose". Its programmed purpose, intended purpose I want to remind.

 You know that your agreeing with my prior statement here right? The catalyst had come to the conclusion that the harvest wouldn't work anymore (Unless you choose Refuse). It then changed it's mind (programming), and allowed Shepard to perform his/her action.

 If you believe that the Catalyst cant go beyond its programming, then you are saying that the Geth are smarter than the Catalyst. You made the statement that the Catalyst was the smartest being, the ultimate AI so to speak. Yet the Geth went well beyond their own programming. How is it the Geth can can go beyond but the Catalyst cant.

 This is the problem in your argument. You either believe the Catalyst chose its OWN path (The Harvest) as stated by me prior (In game FACT). Or you believe that it cant go beyond its programming (Created by Leviathans) and is a lesser form of AI than the Geth.

 The Catalyst relates that Shepard is the first organic being to stand in its chamber to converse with it, which caused it to RETHINK the cycle. It cannot, however, bring about a change without Shepard's intervention. If Shepard wouldn't have gotten to the Catalyst, the cycle would have continued as normal (The exact same way). This is more IN GAME PROOF/FACT that goes against what your saying.

  Your not going to have your cake and eat it to.

Modifié par KwangtungTiger, 16 mars 2013 - 01:18 .

[Seival]

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Seival wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Seival wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

You make the Catalyst out to be some simple computer (Which goes against some of your previous threads). The Catalyst was an AI. It came to the CONCLUSION (Not programmed to that conclusion) that the Harvest was needed.

AIs base their conclusions on lower-level (i.e. much more complicated) programming. The original Catalyst was programmed to come to that kind of conclusion (even if that wasn't directly intended by original programmer).

And as you can see, the original Catalyst's programming eventually led it to the conclusion that Harvests became outdated. Remember the ending? It's was the Catalyst who suggested new solutions. Shepard could only choose (or refuse to cooperate).

 I've clearly showed you IN GAME proof about the catalyst and you refuse to see it. I CLEARLY remember the ending but it has no bearing on are current conversation. The catalyst had the power to come up with any conclusion to the synthetic/organic problem it deemded fitting. It came up with the harvest.

 The leviathans would have been smart enough to know when they programmed the catalyst that it would have turned against them if in fact it was in its programming.

 Your denial does not undermine the truth of this......

It came up with the Harvest, which eventually became outdated in opinion of the one who started it.

Leviathan: "There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose". Its programmed purpose, intended purpose I want to remind.

 You know that your agreeing with my prior statement here right? The catalyst had come to the conclusion that the harvest wouldn't work anymore (Unless you choose Refuse). It then changed it's mind (programming), and allowed Shepard to perform his/her action.

 If you believe that the Catalyst cant go beyond its programming, then you are saying that the Geth are smarter than the Catalyst. You made the statement that the Catalyst was the smartest being, the ultimate AI so to speak. Yet the Geth went well beyond their own programming. How is it the Geth can can go beyond but the Catalyst cant.

 This is the problem in your argument. You either believe the Catalyst chose its OWN path (The Harvest) as stated by me prior (In game FACT). Or you believe that it cant go beyond its programming (Created by Leviathans) and is a lesser form of AI than the Geth.

 The Catalyst relates that Shepard is the first organic being to stand in its chamber to converse with it, which caused it to RETHINK the cycle. It cannot, however, bring about a change without Shepard's intervention. If Shepard wouldn't have gotten to the Catalyst, the cycle would have continued as normal (The exact same way). This is more IN GAME PROOF/FACT that goes against what your saying.

  Your not going to have your cake and eat it to.

Agreeing? Not at all

The Geth didn't go beyond their programming. They were intended to become smarter when they gather in groups, and yet Quarians kept improving them. Quarians just didn't realize that at some point large enough groups of Geth will become smart enough to become self-aware. Quarians gave birth to the Geth. Since then they base all their development on lower-level programming they recieved from Quarians. That doesn't mean they can't improve themselves and gain experience. That means they can do it only through the "filters" of their initial programming.

The same goes for the Catalyst. It can't go beyond its programming, but it can improve itself within this programming limits.

Catalyst's programming, and its Harvest solution helped to lead the galaxy to the state that can produce an anomaly like Shepard. Anomaly that is required to apply solution like Synthesis - one of the better solutions. Remember Leviathan DLC? The Catalyst turned the entire galaxy into an experiment with evolution as the main tool. It was programmed to find the solution to the problem, and following that programming it literally produced the Shepard (even through it didn't see the true Shepard's potential initially). Shepard had to be discovered and tested. And the Crucible was the final test.

In the end Catalyst and Shepard depend on each other. Catalyst can't apply new solution without Shepard, and Shepard can't stop the Reapers without the Catalyst's help. They have to cooperate. It will be correct to say that Shepard's actions convinced the Catalyst that Harvests became outdated, but it was the Catalyst who created the Shepard at first place. And the possibility to become convinced of some particular things is just a part of the Catalyst's programming. It is protector, remember? It has to be very carefull, because life is too fragile. The Catalyst was programmed to be careful.

...Just following the programming. Step by step finding what it was programmed to find - an ideal solution. Never do something that goes out of its programming. Never turn away from path of life preservation. It was created to be protector of life, and it can't do anything else.

Modifié par Seival, 16 mars 2013 - 02:28 .

[KwangtungTiger]

Seival wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Seival wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Seival wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

You make the Catalyst out to be some simple computer (Which goes against some of your previous threads). The Catalyst was an AI. It came to the CONCLUSION (Not programmed to that conclusion) that the Harvest was needed.

AIs base their conclusions on lower-level (i.e. much more complicated) programming. The original Catalyst was programmed to come to that kind of conclusion (even if that wasn't directly intended by original programmer).

And as you can see, the original Catalyst's programming eventually led it to the conclusion that Harvests became outdated. Remember the ending? It's was the Catalyst who suggested new solutions. Shepard could only choose (or refuse to cooperate).

 I've clearly showed you IN GAME proof about the catalyst and you refuse to see it. I CLEARLY remember the ending but it has no bearing on are current conversation. The catalyst had the power to come up with any conclusion to the synthetic/organic problem it deemded fitting. It came up with the harvest.

 The leviathans would have been smart enough to know when they programmed the catalyst that it would have turned against them if in fact it was in its programming.

 Your denial does not undermine the truth of this......

It came up with the Harvest, which eventually became outdated in opinion of the one who started it.

Leviathan: "There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose". Its programmed purpose, intended purpose I want to remind.

 You know that your agreeing with my prior statement here right? The catalyst had come to the conclusion that the harvest wouldn't work anymore (Unless you choose Refuse). It then changed it's mind (programming), and allowed Shepard to perform his/her action.

 If you believe that the Catalyst cant go beyond its programming, then you are saying that the Geth are smarter than the Catalyst. You made the statement that the Catalyst was the smartest being, the ultimate AI so to speak. Yet the Geth went well beyond their own programming. How is it the Geth can can go beyond but the Catalyst cant.

 This is the problem in your argument. You either believe the Catalyst chose its OWN path (The Harvest) as stated by me prior (In game FACT). Or you believe that it cant go beyond its programming (Created by Leviathans) and is a lesser form of AI than the Geth.

 The Catalyst relates that Shepard is the first organic being to stand in its chamber to converse with it, which caused it to RETHINK the cycle. It cannot, however, bring about a change without Shepard's intervention. If Shepard wouldn't have gotten to the Catalyst, the cycle would have continued as normal (The exact same way). This is more IN GAME PROOF/FACT that goes against what your saying.

  Your not going to have your cake and eat it to.

Agreeing? Not at all

The Geth didn't go beyond their programming. They were intended to become smarter when they gather in groups, and yet Quarians kept improving them. Quarians just didn't realize that at some point large enough groups of Geth will become smart enough to become self-aware. Quarians gave birth to the Geth. Since then they base all their development on lower-level programming they recieved from Quarians. That doesn't mean they can't improve themselves and gain experience. That means they can do it only through the "filters" of their initial programming.

The same goes for the Catalyst. It can't go beyond its programming, but it can improve itself within this programming limits.

Catalyst's programming, and its Harvest solution helped to lead the galaxy to the state that can produce an anomaly like Shepard. Anomaly that is required to apply solution like Synthesis - one of the better solutions. Remember Leviathan DLC? The Catalyst turned the entire galaxy into an experiment with evolution as the main tool. It was programmed to find the solution to the problem, and following that programming it literally produced the Shepard (even through it didn't see the true Shepard's potential initially). Shepard had to be discovered and tested. And the Crucible was the final test.

In the end Catalyst and Shepard depend on each other. Catalyst can't apply new solution without Shepard, and Shepard can't stop the Reapers without the Catalyst's help. They have to cooperate. It will be correct to say that Shepard's actions convinced the Catalyst that Harvests became outdated, but it was the Catalyst who created the Shepard at first place.

...Just following the programming. Step by step finding what it was programmed to find - an ideal solution. Never do something that goes out of its programming. Never turn away from path of life preservation. It was created to be protector of life, and it can't do anything else.

 Sigh..............

 The Catalyst could have applied a different solution at any time it wanted other than when the crucible docked. Its in the damn game.

 You CLEARLY refuse to see in game facts. At this point I truely believe you are just trolling.

[Seival]

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Seival wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Seival wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Seival wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

You make the Catalyst out to be some simple computer (Which goes against some of your previous threads). The Catalyst was an AI. It came to the CONCLUSION (Not programmed to that conclusion) that the Harvest was needed.

AIs base their conclusions on lower-level (i.e. much more complicated) programming. The original Catalyst was programmed to come to that kind of conclusion (even if that wasn't directly intended by original programmer).

And as you can see, the original Catalyst's programming eventually led it to the conclusion that Harvests became outdated. Remember the ending? It's was the Catalyst who suggested new solutions. Shepard could only choose (or refuse to cooperate).

 I've clearly showed you IN GAME proof about the catalyst and you refuse to see it. I CLEARLY remember the ending but it has no bearing on are current conversation. The catalyst had the power to come up with any conclusion to the synthetic/organic problem it deemded fitting. It came up with the harvest.

 The leviathans would have been smart enough to know when they programmed the catalyst that it would have turned against them if in fact it was in its programming.

 Your denial does not undermine the truth of this......

It came up with the Harvest, which eventually became outdated in opinion of the one who started it.

Leviathan: "There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose". Its programmed purpose, intended purpose I want to remind.

 You know that your agreeing with my prior statement here right? The catalyst had come to the conclusion that the harvest wouldn't work anymore (Unless you choose Refuse). It then changed it's mind (programming), and allowed Shepard to perform his/her action.

 If you believe that the Catalyst cant go beyond its programming, then you are saying that the Geth are smarter than the Catalyst. You made the statement that the Catalyst was the smartest being, the ultimate AI so to speak. Yet the Geth went well beyond their own programming. How is it the Geth can can go beyond but the Catalyst cant.

 This is the problem in your argument. You either believe the Catalyst chose its OWN path (The Harvest) as stated by me prior (In game FACT). Or you believe that it cant go beyond its programming (Created by Leviathans) and is a lesser form of AI than the Geth.

 The Catalyst relates that Shepard is the first organic being to stand in its chamber to converse with it, which caused it to RETHINK the cycle. It cannot, however, bring about a change without Shepard's intervention. If Shepard wouldn't have gotten to the Catalyst, the cycle would have continued as normal (The exact same way). This is more IN GAME PROOF/FACT that goes against what your saying.

  Your not going to have your cake and eat it to.

Agreeing? Not at all

The Geth didn't go beyond their programming. They were intended to become smarter when they gather in groups, and yet Quarians kept improving them. Quarians just didn't realize that at some point large enough groups of Geth will become smart enough to become self-aware. Quarians gave birth to the Geth. Since then they base all their development on lower-level programming they recieved from Quarians. That doesn't mean they can't improve themselves and gain experience. That means they can do it only through the "filters" of their initial programming.

The same goes for the Catalyst. It can't go beyond its programming, but it can improve itself within this programming limits.

Catalyst's programming, and its Harvest solution helped to lead the galaxy to the state that can produce an anomaly like Shepard. Anomaly that is required to apply solution like Synthesis - one of the better solutions. Remember Leviathan DLC? The Catalyst turned the entire galaxy into an experiment with evolution as the main tool. It was programmed to find the solution to the problem, and following that programming it literally produced the Shepard (even through it didn't see the true Shepard's potential initially). Shepard had to be discovered and tested. And the Crucible was the final test.

In the end Catalyst and Shepard depend on each other. Catalyst can't apply new solution without Shepard, and Shepard can't stop the Reapers without the Catalyst's help. They have to cooperate. It will be correct to say that Shepard's actions convinced the Catalyst that Harvests became outdated, but it was the Catalyst who created the Shepard at first place.

...Just following the programming. Step by step finding what it was programmed to find - an ideal solution. Never do something that goes out of its programming. Never turn away from path of life preservation. It was created to be protector of life, and it can't do anything else.

 Sigh..............

 The Catalyst could have applied a different solution at any time it wanted other than when the crucible docked. Its in the damn game.

 You CLEARLY refuse to see in game facts. At this point I truely believe you are just trolling.

I'm just supporting my favorite ending and explain some things in the process.

The path of finding an ideal solution is a chain of intended events with several temporary solutions involved on the way. All of those events were triggered by an AI that was programmed to push the galaxy through that trial... Makes sence when you think about it.

No wonder why Leviathan says "There was no mistake. It still serves its purpose".

[Rick Lewis]

Just popping in to show my support. I really don't feel like adding jet fuel to the fire here.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Control ending is pretty cool.

...that's really all I have to say on the matter.

[Argolas]

Just a little question that just popped into my head. I'm sure I'm not the first one to ask this, but I never saw it before.

Why does the crucible even have to fire in Control? It makes sense in Destroy and Synthesis because it needs to, well, do something, but in the Control ending, Shepard merely replaces the Intelligence as far as I understand it. That would be a local thing, gaining Control over the Reapers should work automatically after Shepard is... uploaded into the Citadel, I guess. Now considering that the Crucible potentially causes severe damage, is firing it really necessary here?

[Xilizhra]

Argolas wrote...

Just a little question that just popped into my head. I'm sure I'm not the first one to ask this, but I never saw it before.

Why does the crucible even have to fire in Control? It makes sense in Destroy and Synthesis because it needs to, well, do something, but in the Control ending, Shepard merely replaces the Intelligence as far as I understand it. That would be a local thing, gaining Control over the Reapers should work automatically after Shepard is... uploaded into the Citadel, I guess. Now considering that the Crucible potentially causes severe damage, is firing it really necessary here?

It's a signal to realign the Reapers with the new Catalyst program. Don't question it, this is the thing that can also do Synthesis.

[Argolas]

Xilizhra wrote...

Argolas wrote...

Just a little question that just popped into my head. I'm sure I'm not the first one to ask this, but I never saw it before.

Why does the crucible even have to fire in Control? It makes sense in Destroy and Synthesis because it needs to, well, do something, but in the Control ending, Shepard merely replaces the Intelligence as far as I understand it. That would be a local thing, gaining Control over the Reapers should work automatically after Shepard is... uploaded into the Citadel, I guess. Now considering that the Crucible potentially causes severe damage, is firing it really necessary here?

It's a signal to realign the Reapers with the new Catalyst program. Don't question it, this is the thing that can also do Synthesis.

Maybe it's better that way.

[SurfaceBeneath]

I assume that in order to "control" the Reapers you still have to overwrite their programming which requires energy of some kind to be released so that it gets all the Reapers that are in other systems and not on Earth.

EDIT: I think in every ending though that huge pulse is more meant to be cinematic razzle-dazzle than any kind of literal representation of what's happening.

Modifié par SurfaceBeneath, 16 mars 2013 - 04:09 .

[Seival]

Argolas wrote...

Just a little question that just popped into my head. I'm sure I'm not the first one to ask this, but I never saw it before.

Why does the crucible even have to fire in Control? It makes sense in Destroy and Synthesis because it needs to, well, do something, but in the Control ending, Shepard merely replaces the Intelligence as far as I understand it. That would be a local thing, gaining Control over the Reapers should work automatically after Shepard is... uploaded into the Citadel, I guess. Now considering that the Crucible potentially causes severe damage, is firing it really necessary here?

Yes, this is a familiar question here. Let me explain my thoughts on the matter.

I believe that the Catalyst's personality is purely hardware, and has no input mechanisms (one of the reasons it can't be hacked, by the way). Initially that hardware programming involved forming the proper hardware - constructing it with all data needed already inside it. This hardware contains personality and all memories the Catalyst had at the moment of end of hardware construction process. So, basically Catalyst's personality programming is "baking" an intelligence into some kind of hardware construct. Only the subsequent data (that came after the initial "baking") is stored as a software for obvious reasons - you can't rewrite the hardware.

The hardware construct is not just one computer. It's obvious that the Catalyst has that hardware backup in each harvesting platform, each Reaper ship, on the Citadel ("Citadel is a part of me"), and maybe even in each mass relay. There is no way to hack all of this or "alter some signal somehow".

So, what happens in Control exactly? Simple. It is reconstruction of all of the Catalyst's hardware constructs on atomic level - the "re-baking". That's why you need galactic-scale explosion in Control - all hardware constructs must be affected, and Reapers are spreaded through the entire galaxy.

Since Control is a new "baking", the hardware constructs gain much more than through the original Catalyst's programming. They gain the entire experience and all memories of the original Catalyst, plus Shepard's personality/experience/memories, plus Liara's experience/memories (if she was your Shepard's LI, and you accepted her gift in the end).

...And one more observation. It's obvious that the Catalyst's hardware constructs can be "re-baked" or "destroyed" only with the Catalyst's permission.

Modifié par Seival, 16 mars 2013 - 12:30 .

[Argolas]

Seival wrote...

Yes, this is a familiar question here. Let me explain my thoughts on the matter.

I believe that the Catalyst's personality is purely hardware, and has no input mechanisms (one of the reasons it can't be hacked, by the way). Initially that hardware programming involved forming the proper hardware - constructing it with all data needed already inside it. This hardware contains personality and all memories the Catalyst had at the moment of end of hardware construction process. So, basically Catalyst's personality programming is "baking" an intelligence into some kind of hardware construct. Only the subsequent data (that came after the initial "baking") is stored as a software for obvious reasons - you can't rewrite the hardware.

The hardware construct is not just one computer. It's obvious that the Catalyst has that hardware backup in each harvesting platform, each Reaper ship, on the Citadel ("Citadel is a part of me"), and maybe even in each mass relay. There is no way to hack all of this or "alter some signal somehow".

So, what happens in Control exactly? Simple. It is reconstruction of all of the Catalyst's hardware constructs on atomic level - the "re-baking". That's why you need galactic-scale explosion in Control - all hardware constructs must be affected, and Reapers are spreaded through the entire galaxy.

Since Control is a new "baking", the hardware constructs gain much more than through the original Catalyst's programming. They gain the entire experience and all memories of the original Catalyst, plus Shepard's personality/experience/memories, plus Liara's experience/memories (if she was your Shepard's LI, and you accepted her gift in the end).

...And one more observation. It's obvious that the Catalyst's hardware constructs can be "re-baked" or "destroyed" only with the Catalyst's permission.

Thanks for the answer. The necessity of tackling the Reapers' hardware directly in order to reprogram them is not more than speculation (like a lot of things about the endings), but a valid possibilty.

[LiL Reapur]

Synthesis is the right choice but.................Screw that ending control those mofos and live on as the reapers hey harbinger cant talk trash anymore right?

[cerberus1701]

Destroy.

Forever Destroy.

No other endings make sense, save perhaps Renegade Control.

[DirtyPhoenix]

cerberus1701 wrote...

No other endings make sense, save perhaps Renegade Control.

Gotta ask; why Renegade control makes sense and not Paragon control? Because it is totally and absolutely unthinkable that a "good" person may want to do something else with the reapers than fly the into the sun right?

[Dendio1]

Cata-shep may have unfortunate implications about his methods of doing things. Just look how potentially controversal shepard has been through his journey as a spectre.

Also the universe probably will rebel against a god AI controlling their lives

[Nykara]

So just finished my first EC play through with control as my Cannon ending. I think it shall stay that way too. I can't bring myself to choose destroy just to keep Shepard alive, it makes no sense. It would be out of character for her when another choice is available.

Synthesis seems to have too many variables, the biggest one being that the organics are probably not ready for it yet. If it can't be forced then it will probably end up being rejected at this point, at least by some of the races.

That leaves me with control. So long as Shepard can keep control and act as a Guardian for the universe things will probably be able to move along more smoothly. She also gets to retain her memories which is a plus and leaves a few things open. So control it is, but damn if that last scene with Kaidan getting on to the Normandy didn't make me want to cry! Shep to Kaidan: "Know that no matter what happens I will always love you."

[cerberus1701]

pirate1802 wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...

No other endings make sense, save perhaps Renegade Control.

Gotta ask; why Renegade control makes sense and not Paragon control? Because it is totally and absolutely unthinkable that a "good" person may want to do something else with the reapers than fly the into the sun right?

Because Paragon Control must assume that Shepard will simply not morph into another twisted Catalyst in a few thousand years. It has to be assumed so that (P) controllers can have their unicorn and rainbow happy sacrifice.

Renegade Shepard would happily pick up Thor's Hammer for the sake of power and to impose his/her own brand of justice.

Renegade Control ultimately doesn't actually care that he/she will eventually become the happy enforcer with a Reaper army at his back.

A good person simply cannot stay a good person when that person is no longer a person and has no other connections to other people anymore. The only things that Shep will eventually relate with and truly understand are the other Reapers because, after a while, they won't be connected to anything else.

Headcannon whatever you like, but human psychology is what it is.

Modifié par cerberus1701, 17 mars 2013 - 02:57 .

[Seival]

cerberus1701 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...

No other endings make sense, save perhaps Renegade Control.

Gotta ask; why Renegade control makes sense and not Paragon control? Because it is totally and absolutely unthinkable that a "good" person may want to do something else with the reapers than fly the into the sun right?

Because Paragon Control must assume that Shepard will simply not morph into another twisted Catalyst in a few thousand years. It has to be assumed so that (P) controllers can have their unicorn and rainbow happy sacrifice.

Renegade Shepard would happily pick up Thor's Hammer for the sake of power and to impose his/her own brand of justice.

Renegade Control ultimately doesn't actually care that he/she will eventually become the happy enforcer with a Reaper army at his back.

A good person simply cannot stay a good person when that person is no longer a person and has no other connections to other people anymore. The only things that Shep will eventually relate with and truly understand are the other Reapers because, after a while, they won't be connected to anything else.

Headcannon whatever you like, but human psychology is what it is.

(1) Human psychology is not applicable to computers.
(2) With Shepard's personality Catalyst will follow Shepard's way of thinking.
(3) Being an AI, Shepard-Catalyst will be incorruptible because power can't corrupt a computer.

Yes, as simple as that. Shepard died, but her mind lives on as an unstoppable and incorruptible machine. What exactly that machine will do in the future strongly depends on who was your Shepard as a human. So if your Shepard was sane and reasonable you have nothing to worry about.

Modifié par Seival, 17 mars 2013 - 10:39 .

[Seival]

By the way. Recently I finished rendering the video footage about the last battle and Control ending.

...It is 1h 32min long, without combat gameplay (which was done on "Insanity" difficulty level... I just don't like any other difficulty levels no matter the game). And it's just 3% of ME3.


This is why I think BioWare doesn't need to create any movies about MEU. RPG games are so much better, and so much longer. ME3 alone has content enough for tens of movies, and was made in just two years.

[cerberus1701]

Seival wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...

No other endings make sense, save perhaps Renegade Control.

Gotta ask; why Renegade control makes sense and not Paragon control? Because it is totally and absolutely unthinkable that a "good" person may want to do something else with the reapers than fly the into the sun right?

Because Paragon Control must assume that Shepard will simply not morph into another twisted Catalyst in a few thousand years. It has to be assumed so that (P) controllers can have their unicorn and rainbow happy sacrifice.

Renegade Shepard would happily pick up Thor's Hammer for the sake of power and to impose his/her own brand of justice.

Renegade Control ultimately doesn't actually care that he/she will eventually become the happy enforcer with a Reaper army at his back.

A good person simply cannot stay a good person when that person is no longer a person and has no other connections to other people anymore. The only things that Shep will eventually relate with and truly understand are the other Reapers because, after a while, they won't be connected to anything else.

Headcannon whatever you like, but human psychology is what it is.

(1) Human psychology is not applicable to computers.
(2) With Shepard's personality Catalyst will follow Shepard's way of thinking.
(3) Being an AI, Shepard-Catalyst will be incorruptible because power can't corrupt a computer.

Yes, as simple as that. Shepard died, but her mind lives on as an unstoppable and incorruptible machine. What exactly that machine will do in the future strongly depends on who was your Shepard as a human. So if your Shepard was sane and reasonable you have nothing to worry about.

All three of your points have the same fundamental flaw:


(1) It is when you're alleging that the computer copied the mind.

(2) Not if the computer didn't copy the mind. If all it did was transfer data, then it's basically no different than preserving the societal data it claims to "save" when it liquefies a species. I can assimilate the facts in your obituary, that's not the same as understanding your LIFE.

(3) (See (1) and (2) If it copied the mind...if it TRULY copied the mind, then that mind is subject to the same issues yours or mine would be when all we're doing is carrying it around in this meatbag.

Anything less is even more reason not to trust the Shepalyst.

Modifié par cerberus1701, 17 mars 2013 - 11:22 .

[Seival]

cerberus1701 wrote...

Seival wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...

No other endings make sense, save perhaps Renegade Control.

Gotta ask; why Renegade control makes sense and not Paragon control? Because it is totally and absolutely unthinkable that a "good" person may want to do something else with the reapers than fly the into the sun right?

Because Paragon Control must assume that Shepard will simply not morph into another twisted Catalyst in a few thousand years. It has to be assumed so that (P) controllers can have their unicorn and rainbow happy sacrifice.

Renegade Shepard would happily pick up Thor's Hammer for the sake of power and to impose his/her own brand of justice.

Renegade Control ultimately doesn't actually care that he/she will eventually become the happy enforcer with a Reaper army at his back.

A good person simply cannot stay a good person when that person is no longer a person and has no other connections to other people anymore. The only things that Shep will eventually relate with and truly understand are the other Reapers because, after a while, they won't be connected to anything else.

Headcannon whatever you like, but human psychology is what it is.

(1) Human psychology is not applicable to computers.
(2) With Shepard's personality Catalyst will follow Shepard's way of thinking.
(3) Being an AI, Shepard-Catalyst will be incorruptible because power can't corrupt a computer.

Yes, as simple as that. Shepard died, but her mind lives on as an unstoppable and incorruptible machine. What exactly that machine will do in the future strongly depends on who was your Shepard as a human. So if your Shepard was sane and reasonable you have nothing to worry about.

All three of your points have the same fundamental flaw:


(1) It is when you're alleging that the computer copied the mind.

(2) Not if the computer didn't copy the mind. If all it did was transfer data, then it's basically no different than preserving the societal data it claims to "save" when it liquefies a species. I can assimilate the facts in your obituary, that's not the same as understanding your LIFE.

(3) (See (1) and (2) If it copied the mind...if it TRULY copied the mind, then that mind is subject to the same issues yours or mine would be when all we're doing is carrying it around in this meatbag.

Anything less is even more reason not to trust the Shepalyst.

Looks like you don't see the difference between artificial mind and natural mind. And this is actually one of the main differences between organics and synthetics.

Human psycology formed not only by doctrines of your ethos. It forms constantly in fact. It is never ending process that depends on your mood, mood of the ones who you are talking to, temperature in the room, if you are hungry or not, if you are tired or not, if you want to sleep or not, if you intoxicated or not, if you ill or not, on what sounds surround you currently, if you feel pain or need, or envy, or hate... and who knows how many other factors.

Programmed synthetic mind doesn't depend on all these things. AI chooses a path only following program's logic. It is bound only to it's code, not to external factors. External factors only provide visual and sound info for an AI. This is why AIs are incorruptible. This is why synthetics are so different from organics. Synthetics do not feel or understand something like organics. They just follow their code. Synthetics' "feelings" is something that is completely alien to organics. But if a synthetic was programmed to be good and polite, it will be good and polite obviously.

[cerberus1701]

Seival wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...

Seival wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

cerberus1701 wrote...

No other endings make sense, save perhaps Renegade Control.

Gotta ask; why Renegade control makes sense and not Paragon control? Because it is totally and absolutely unthinkable that a "good" person may want to do something else with the reapers than fly the into the sun right?

Because Paragon Control must assume that Shepard will simply not morph into another twisted Catalyst in a few thousand years. It has to be assumed so that (P) controllers can have their unicorn and rainbow happy sacrifice.

Renegade Shepard would happily pick up Thor's Hammer for the sake of power and to impose his/her own brand of justice.

Renegade Control ultimately doesn't actually care that he/she will eventually become the happy enforcer with a Reaper army at his back.

A good person simply cannot stay a good person when that person is no longer a person and has no other connections to other people anymore. The only things that Shep will eventually relate with and truly understand are the other Reapers because, after a while, they won't be connected to anything else.

Headcannon whatever you like, but human psychology is what it is.

(1) Human psychology is not applicable to computers.
(2) With Shepard's personality Catalyst will follow Shepard's way of thinking.
(3) Being an AI, Shepard-Catalyst will be incorruptible because power can't corrupt a computer.

Yes, as simple as that. Shepard died, but her mind lives on as an unstoppable and incorruptible machine. What exactly that machine will do in the future strongly depends on who was your Shepard as a human. So if your Shepard was sane and reasonable you have nothing to worry about.

All three of your points have the same fundamental flaw:


(1) It is when you're alleging that the computer copied the mind.

(2) Not if the computer didn't copy the mind. If all it did was transfer data, then it's basically no different than preserving the societal data it claims to "save" when it liquefies a species. I can assimilate the facts in your obituary, that's not the same as understanding your LIFE.

(3) (See (1) and (2) If it copied the mind...if it TRULY copied the mind, then that mind is subject to the same issues yours or mine would be when all we're doing is carrying it around in this meatbag.

Anything less is even more reason not to trust the Shepalyst.

Looks like you don't see the difference between artificial mind and natural mind. And this is actually one of the main differences between organics and synthetics.

Human psycology formed not only by doctrines of your ethos. It forms constantly in fact. It is never ending process that depends on your mood, mood of the ones who you are talking to, temperature in the room, if you are hungry or not, if you are tired or not, if you want to sleep or not, if you intoxicated or not, if you ill or not, on what sounds surround you currently, if you feel pain or need, or envy, or hate... and who knows how many other factors.

Programmed synthetic mind doesn't depend on all these things. AI chooses a path only following program's logic. It is bound only to it's code, not to external factors. External factors only provide visual and sound info for an AI. This is why AIs are incorruptible. This is why synthetics are so different from organics. Synthetics do not feel or understand something like organics. They just follow their code. Synthetics' "feelings" is something that is completely alien to organics. But if a synthetic was programmed to be good and polite, it will be good and polite obviously.

There is no difference...not IF you're trying to tell me that Shepard is still Shepard.

Yes. You're right, in PART, that those elements factor into a person, but not the way you think. Hunger, fatigue, etc, create certain states that illicit certain REACTIONS that are dependent only in part on psychology. Some people get grumpy in response to fatigue. I know others who think everything is hilarious then.

He won't be hungry anymore, so he won't react to that.

But he WILL be lonely. He will need to make connections.

Otherwise he is NOT Human anymore.

Otherwise the Catalyst just duped Shep into taking over for him so it could functionally die...finally.

You want to have your cake and eat it, too. You want to tell people that Control is so awesome because if Shepard was awesome before he'll continue to be awesome because everything he is went into it.

But, oh...he's just a shackled AI now who isn't REALLY Shepard. All the positives went in and none of the negatives.

How does it know what the "good stuff" to copy is when rage isn't always a bad thing and love isn't always a good one?