4520 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

2hard2findaname wrote...

So if you control the reapers does that mean you live just not in your body. The reason I picked it though was because I wanted to control the reapers for my self.

Which brings me back to it being the Ayn Rand ending.

:sick:

[frylock23]

PSjoh wrote...

how do you know, it takes place in then thousand years, from what I understood, super fast travel and space community was still not (re)achieved.
looks very soon after shepard, who would remember sheperd after tens of thousands of years anyway?

Destroy is meh, you destroy the immidiate threat and take your bets on organics not being stupid, 2 cycles known, both fought with synthetics and while the prophecy did not happen in neither (yet) All it takes is one rogue organisation, to make a super synthetic to screw everyone.

also, singularity didn't have to happen in 10k years, i could have happened 100K years ago, tommorrow, in 1M years, does it even matter when? would you sacrifice organics, for your civilisation to have a natural (if ever) death?

The way I see things, Reapers were once organics who faced singularity synthetics, Use synthesis (became hybrids) to defeat them, and took it on their shoulders to prevent others to face the same thing. Because where they succeeded (at a great cost) if anyone failed, it would be the end of organic life.
so evil synthetics happened at least once... speculation i know, but reaper creators  had to have a very good reason to do this crazy cycle.

Now, it's merely enough for the Reapers' Master to be maybe right ... someday ... well, all it will take is just once? Seriously?

Shepard stands there at the head of an organic army that couldn't exist if the problem the Star Brat was so worried and has been so carefully guarding against had ever happened. And the only proof he has is his word, the word of your deadliest enemy, and he has no proof. And you just take him at face value?

[PSjoh]

i wouldn't refute such logic, good bioware words
I edited my post, but yeah, singularity doesn't have to happen in ten thousand years, reapers gave us 50k years and it didn't happen.
and if singularity/synthetic problem, is real, which i tend to beleive, then it doesn't matter when it happens, you don't want it to. (hence the reapers)

Modifié par PSjoh, 29 mai 2012 - 03:48 .

[Vigilant111]

PSjoh wrote...

how do you know, it takes place in then thousand years, from what I understood, super fast travel and space community was still not (re)achieved.
looks very soon after shepard, who would remember sheperd after tens of thousands of years anyway?

Destroy is meh, you destroy the immidiate threat and take your bets on organics not being stupid, 2 cycles known, both fought with synthetics and while the prophecy did not happen in neither (yet) All it takes is one rogue organisation, to make a super synthetic to screw everyone.

also, singularity didn't have to happen in 10k years, i could have happened 100K years ago, tommorrow, in 1M years, does it even matter when? would you sacrifice organics, for your civilisation to have a natural (if ever) death?

The way I see things, Reapers were once organics who faced singularity synthetics, Use synthesis (became hybrids) to defeat them, and took it on their shoulders to prevent others to face the same thing. Because where they succeeded (at a great cost) if anyone failed, it would be the end of organic life.
so evil synthetics happened at least once... speculation i know, but reaper creators  had to have a very good reason to do this crazy cycle.

The whole experience of game is to teach organics a lesson: DO NOT CREATE THINGS THAT U CANNOT CONTROL

As with the cycles, again law of average: when the experiment repeats itself many times, something surprising happens

[Taboo]

The deal is, is that the Geth are dead in my playthrough

I shoot the pipe and will survive and I don't risk the bloody singularity.

I weasel my way out of Bioware's nonsense yet again.

[frylock23]

PSjoh wrote...

i wouldn't refute such logic, good bioware words
I edited my post, but yeah, singularity doesn't have to happen in ten thousand years, reapers gave us 50k years and it didn't happen.
and if singularity/synthetic problem, is real, which i tend to beleive, then it doesn't matter when it happens, you don't want it to. (hence the reapers)

The Reapers don't give you 50K years. They make sure that the technology you develop carefully guided by their own plans and designs. Most tech in the galaxy is based on the Mass Relays and thus Reaper tech. There is very little technology in any given cycle that hasn't been subtly influenced by the Reapers' own technology that they leave in place for that express purpose.

No one really knows what it would look like if organics had to develop their own technology without the Mass Relays and Reaper tech left there to give them those boosts and that guidance.

Modifié par frylock23, 29 mai 2012 - 03:37 .

[MerchantGOL]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The deal is, is that the Geth are dead in my playthrough

I shoot the pipe and will survive and I don't risk the bloody singularity.

I weasel my way out of Bioware's nonsense yet again.

Except you ensure that that the next synthetics will have a groudns not to trust organics, and destory any chance for peace with said synthetics

[frylock23]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The deal is, is that the Geth are dead in my playthrough

I shoot the pipe and will survive and I don't risk the bloody singularity.

I weasel my way out of Bioware's nonsense yet again.

Except you ensure that that the next synthetics will have a groudns not to trust organics, and destory any chance for peace with said synthetics

Maybe, maybe not. The Geth sided with the Reapers after all.

[Taboo]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The deal is, is that the Geth are dead in my playthrough

I shoot the pipe and will survive and I don't risk the bloody singularity.

I weasel my way out of Bioware's nonsense yet again.

Except you ensure that that the next synthetics will have a groudns not to trust organics, and destory any chance for peace with said synthetics

They haven't killed me in ten thousand years. The Catalyst states that they will be rebuilt, but they have not chosen to wipe us out. Perhaps we have learned to treat the Synthetics better, instead of panicking when they ask if they have a soul?

I, for one, remain optimistic about such things.

[MerchantGOL]

Taboo-XX wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The deal is, is that the Geth are dead in my playthrough

I shoot the pipe and will survive and I don't risk the bloody singularity.

I weasel my way out of Bioware's nonsense yet again.

Except you ensure that that the next synthetics will have a groudns not to trust organics, and destory any chance for peace with said synthetics

They haven't killed me in ten thousand years.

when was it confirmed star gazer was tenthousand years later?

 

The Catalyst states that they will be rebuilt, but they have not chosen to wipe us out. Perhaps we have learned to treat the Synthetics better, instead of panicking when they ask if they have a soul?

perhapes ai advancment has been hunted with extreme persectuion, perhapes there was another war going on while the grandpa and kid were talking.

[frylock23]

MerchantGOL wrote...

perhapes ai advancment has been hunted with extreme persectuion, perhapes there was another war going on while the grandpa and kid were talking.

Maybe, but that's just in the realm of your personal speculation. There's no real way to know that. In that case, my word is as good as yours. So, if I want to say that all AIs are benevolent and love people, it means just as much.

[Taboo]

It was clarified on Twitter, by Walters himself I believe. He also clarified that all the important people made it off the Citadel before we had our.........incident. That is to say, Bailey wasn't killed and that damn reporter will live to be punched another day.

As for a war? It's my Shepard's canon, your interpretation is as good as mine ONLY because it is open ended and not filled to the brim with facts.

[Ageless Face]

frylock23 wrote...

Maybe, maybe not. The Geth sided with the Reapers after all.

Not all of them. Some fought against them. The others were afraid of dying.

If an organic race would join your enemy out of fear, do they desrve to die because of that?

[balance5050]

I refuse to believe any canon that's relayed over twitter unless it's ANN.

[PSjoh]

Now, it's merely enough for the Reapers' Master to be maybe right ...
someday ... well, all it will take is just once? Seriously?

Shepard
stands there at the head of an organic army that couldn't exist if the
problem the Star Brat was so worried and has been so carefully guarding
against had ever happened. And the only proof he has is his word, the
word of your deadliest enemy, and he has no proof.

yes it takes once, how often can you afford one super virus to affect humanity? we have face many, but not THE big one (but a couple ones did big damage).
The problem with synthetics is that they are superior to organics in every single way, and once they can make themselves, improve themselves in ways only their superior mind can think of, we simply won't be able to compete, hence how 1 super synthethic specie can take down all the organics (hello reapers?)

well, Shepard exists because, Star brat has not failed his duty. Say he did not stop organics, they got wiped out and synthetics were somehow stronger than them. (you can't really predict what organics will create*)
than those synthetics can wipeout and make sure organics never arise again.

As for trusting the catalyst... what else can you do? not trust him, pick your choice, see it happen but keep thinking thats not really happened?
The catalyst did not seem evil, he conceeded the cycle wouldn't work anymore (because star above) and we made it to add new possibilities, the one we pick hopefully will not fail like theirs.
How do you think peace ever happened anyway(IRL)? well he said he won't attack... he is the enemy leader, we can't trust him! (leader of x country)

[Taboo]

balance5050 wrote...

I refuse to believe any canon that's relayed over twitter unless it's ANN.

It doesn't matter. It's a fact.

Just like Emily Wong dying.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 29 mai 2012 - 03:50 .

[MerchantGOL]

yeah but which seems more likely?

[balance5050]

Taboo-XX wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

I refuse to believe any canon that's relayed over twitter unless it's ANN.

It doesn't matter. It's a fact.

Just like Emily Wong dying.

http://i.imgur.com/LPozE.jpg

Exactly, Miss Wong died on ANN. What you're referring to is PR. I know it's hard for you to understand, but there's a difference.

Also, I bet you can't even find the twitter post that you're referring too.... I just hope you don't get dragged down by the stone;)

Modifié par balance5050, 29 mai 2012 - 04:01 .

[frylock23]

HagarIshay wrote...

frylock23 wrote...

Maybe, maybe not. The Geth sided with the Reapers after all.

Not all of them. Some fought against them. The others were afraid of dying.

If an organic race would join your enemy out of fear, do they desrve to die because of that?

Your playthrough and mine must be different then.

When I went to priority Rannoch, Legion told me that the Geth consensus was to side with the Reapers. They chose servitude finding it preferable to possible extinction at the hands of the Quarians. That was the second time I found Geth choosing freely to work with the Reapers.

When the time came to decide who to back at the end of the mission, I went with the Quarians who had never shone any inclinations to side with machines. Yes, it's harsh, but in the end, I needed the ones I knew would fight to the end rather than suddenly potentially computing that life in servitude was preferable to extinction and bailing on me, definitely sealing my fate.

In a less desparate time situation, no, they don't deserve death, but by saying that they don't deserve death, you doom another species, so no matter what, one race dies. Since I had to pick, I chose the one I judged most likely to back me in the final fight with the Reapers no matter how desparate that fight got. Unfortunately for the Geth, that was the Quarians.

[Taboo]

MerchantGOL wrote...

yeah but which seems more likely?

It doesn't matter. It's art.

You can just as easily assume that the Screamer in Edvard Munch's The Scream is screaming because his wife left him.

The real answer is that it is a reflection of Munch's state of mind at the time. He diary states as much.

Neither interpretation is wrong.

[MerchantGOL]

fair enough

[frylock23]

PSjoh wrote...

yes it takes once, how often can you afford one super virus to affect humanity? we have face many, but not THE big one (but a couple ones did big damage).
The problem with synthetics is that they are superior to organics in every single way, and once they can make themselves, improve themselves in ways only their superior mind can think of, we simply won't be able to compete, hence how 1 super synthethic specie can take down all the organics (hello reapers?)

No, they're not. AI/synthetics fail in one important way -> they exist entirely in the realms of logic. Logic cannot create. It cannot innovate. It can only refine and make more efficient that which already exists. Ask yourself why the Reapers, who take enormous amounts of downtime never, ever change? It's because they can't. At most, they can get more efficient, but they cannot create new things for themselves. That's why they have to be so careful with the development of every cycle and why they hate chaos. If those pesky organics evolved all on their own, they might conceivably create things for which the Reapers have no counter.

well, Shepard exists because, Star brat has not failed his duty. Say he did not stop organics, they got wiped out and synthetics were somehow stronger than them. (you can't really predict what organics will create*)
than those synthetics can wipeout and make sure organics never arise again.

This is rather like the government saving us constantly from cises that never actually happen. Until it's proven that a quantifiable need exists for that saving, it's rather silly to accept the judgement of someone who admits to gleefully committing an untold number of genocides and is currently engaged in the systematic genocide of your own race as you talk to him. Again, it all boils down to you taking him at face value with no proof.

As for trusting the catalyst... what else can you do? not trust him, pick your choice, see it happen but keep thinking thats not really happened?
The catalyst did not seem evil, he conceeded the cycle wouldn't work anymore (because star above) and we made it to add new possibilities, the one we pick hopefully will not fail like theirs.
How do you think peace ever happened anyway(IRL)? well he said he won't attack... he is the enemy leader, we can't trust him! (leader of x country)

The game is written so that you have no choice but to trust him. That's a massive failure on the part of the story tellers who should have seen the problem with their endings.

Some of the most evil people in the world seem to be very nice guys. Ted Bundy was reputed to be very charming. Jim Jones was one of the most charitable people in San Francisco.  Those are just two. IRL peace generally happens because one side has beaten the other beyond the capacity to fight any longer. It's called defeat. Didn't they teach you about several major wars and how they ended in school?

[Jackums]

Archontor wrote...
Yes I know it's speculation--that was the point, you say there are consequences to Destroy/synthesis and that they  are worse than control, I was pointing out that it was speculatory. Because Speculation for everyone.

But I didn't claim that as fact at all. I said it was just as possible that there'd be equally or more severe consequences to the other choices as there is for Control.

I honestly find your argument against the end-game message to be grasping, because it seems fairly straight-forward, but I guess you can always say "but what if" and I can't really argue because you can't disprove speculation like that.

Assuming the Catalyst is telling the truth, which is heavily implied, then Control is "better" than Destroy in that it entails a lesser degree of loss (of both lives and technology). If the Catalyst is lying, then you'd be correct, but that would also beg the question; Why even interact with Shep in the first place? Why not leave him laying where he was to bleed to death? And furthermore, why would you believe the Catalyst about Destroy if you won't believe what it says about Control? If the Catalyst didn't want you to choose Destroy, why would it even present the option to you? If it wanted you to choose Control, why wouldn't it just tell you that Control was the only way to stop the Reapers? There's a multitude of factors that conflict with your notion that the Catalyst is lying. But I acknowledge neither of us can provide solid proof of our views on the endings, so for now we'll just have to agree to disagree and wait and see what EC brings.

[killage_wizard]

If destroy isn't what I would consider the ultimate "canon" choice (kind of like Shepard not surviving in ME2 wouldn't be the canon outcome) then why is it the only ending that gives you an extra cut scene if your EMS is high enough? People can debate the moralities and the rights vs wrongs of the three choices, but only destroy teases what is to come after you make your choice.

[Taboo]

Control is still the Ayn Rand ending.

BLEUGH. 

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 29 mai 2012 - 05:25 .