4520 réponses à ce sujet

[MerchantGOL]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Control is still the Ayn Rand ending.

BLEUGH. 

and Destroy is the Hitler ending

[Taboo]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Control is still the Ayn Rand ending.

BLEUGH. 

and Destroy is the Hitler ending

Suddenly...Godwin.

If we wanted we could assign that to all the endings. Destroy and Synthesis have authoritarian overtones but Control has the most Randian purpose I've ever seen.

I won't hurt anyone but I'll sure as hell make myself more powerful.

Genocide is a sytematic, pre-planned, conscious destruction of a group of people. The Geth are a blowback in the Destroy ending. Shepard had no knowledge that such a thing would occur before he is told by the Star Child. Nor does he have much time to reach a consensus.

The Geth are dead in my playthrough, wiped out by the Quarians. I bear no responsibility for their deaths in the Destroy ending. 

The casualties are EDI and the Reapers. I survive and don't have to worry about our singularity.

NONE of the choices are ethical. It is a matter of taste.

[MerchantGOL]

Taboo-XX wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Control is still the Ayn Rand ending.

BLEUGH. 

and Destroy is the Hitler ending

Suddenly...Godwin.

If we wanted we could assign that to all the endings. Destroy and Synthesis have authoritarian overtones but Control has the most Randian purpose I've ever seen.

I won't hurt anyone but I'll sure as hell make myself more powerful.

Genocide is a sytematic, pre-planned, conscious destruction of a group of people. The Geth are a blowback in the Destroy ending. Shepard had no knowledge that such a thing would occur before he is told by the Star Child. Nor does he have much time to reach a consensus.

He was told it would kill all the geth and still did it, that makes it 
pre-planned, conscious



or just finishing off said dying race in your case.

[Ageless Face]

killage_wizard wrote...

If destroy isn't what I would consider the ultimate "canon" choice (kind of like Shepard not surviving in ME2 wouldn't be the canon outcome) then why is it the only ending that gives you an extra cut scene if your EMS is high enough? People can debate the moralities and the rights vs wrongs of the three choices, but only destroy teases what is to come after you make your choice.

Destroy is not the canon ending. If there is, it's probobly synthesis, with the such high regard for it from the catalyst (BioWare). Doesn't mean it's any better than destroy or control though. 

In destroy we see Shepard living. In control we see the mass relayes are not destroyed. In synthesis we see that green stuff on Joker, EDI and on the leaf. In every ending we see something special of it's own. 

[Reptilian Rob]

HagarIshay wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

If destroy isn't what I would consider the ultimate "canon" choice (kind of like Shepard not surviving in ME2 wouldn't be the canon outcome) then why is it the only ending that gives you an extra cut scene if your EMS is high enough? People can debate the moralities and the rights vs wrongs of the three choices, but only destroy teases what is to come after you make your choice.

Destroy is not the canon ending. If there is, it's probobly synthesis, with the such high regard for it from the catalyst (BioWare). Doesn't mean it's any better than destroy or control though. 

In destroy we see Shepard living. In control we see the mass relayes are not destroyed. In synthesis we see that green stuff on Joker, EDI and on the leaf. In every ending we see something special of it's own. 

Yes, because forceful re-write of all life is the best thing ever.

Bioware, how would you like it if I forced your families to become Borg? Wouldn't that be fun?

[Seival]

killage_wizard wrote...

If destroy isn't what I would consider the ultimate "canon" choice (kind of like Shepard not surviving in ME2 wouldn't be the canon outcome) then why is it the only ending that gives you an extra cut scene if your EMS is high enough? People can debate the moralities and the rights vs wrongs of the three choices, but only destroy teases what is to come after you make your choice.

Because surviving in such an explosion is a huge achievement itself? The harder something to achieve - the more EMS is requires. But hard achievement is not always = "canon" achievement. This extra cut-scene doesn't make Destroy the "best option".

Modifié par Seival, 29 mai 2012 - 09:13 .

[Seival]

CDRSkyShepard wrote...

Seival wrote...

True Paragon always thinks of suicide after that level of betrayal. Backstab the Geth, Quarians, millions people on the Citadel, all people with vital synthetic implants without a second thought... just for a bloodlust, revenge desire, anger on the Reapers... While she could stop the slaughter without killing anyone by choosing Control.

I'm sure you just want to justify Shepard's survival as a human being and reuniting with love interest... Believe me, your Shepard will no longer be a Paragon at the moment you choose the Destroy. Destroy is the most Renegade thing Shepard can do in the entire Trilogy... Even more Renegade than mass relay destruction in Arrival DLC... At least in Arrival she had no other options...

...Reapers under right control are not a threat to anyone. While the dead Reapers are available to everyone, even to all people, who desires a power. After Destroy the entire worlds will be full of mind-controlling dead constructs that will finally corrupt everyone. Uncontrolled corrupted, and very powerfull cyborgs = death to all leaving creatures in the galaxy... But it will be much later than Renegade Shepard will enjoy her last days with love interest on the brink of chaos, that galaxy had never seen before...

Suicide isn't a good way out. Paragon Shepard would live with her decisions. End of story.

It isn't fair to say that it's backstabbing, because Shepard only knows that Destroy will kill synthetics, not the Citadel. It will hamper the quarians a bit, but they lived centuries without geth involvement. They will adapt. It is also not clear what happened to everyone on the Citadel before it was transported to Earth. If Mac Walters is to be believed, they're all dead anyway. :/ So that discussion point is moot.

If we're going to go into speculation about what happens with dead Reapers, then we can just as easily go into speculation about what happens after Control. What if Shepard can't control them forever and they become unchecked? How can we know that Shepard controlling them won't corrupt his/her mind? They say absolute power corrupts absolutely, and why would you trust the Catalyst . There is only one way to make sure the Reapers don't ever come back, and that's to destroy them. Sure, their debris would cause issues, but if a Reaper is dead, it can still Indoctrinate people, but it won't have a death laser. There will be plenty of hazmat zones after the war because of crashed ships and other hazards, the Reaper debris will just have to be dealt with carefully.

But if Shep cannot maintain control for the rest of time on the Reapers...here we go again.

...At least it's fair to say it's backstabbing of the Geth - the race that Paragon Shepard saved (which was very hard to achieve by the way).

...At least it's logical enough that Paragon Shepard's way of thinking was: "If this kill the Geth as well as the Reapers, then it also may kill everyone with vital synthetic implants... i.e. all Quarians for example".

...And it's logical enough that knowing all of this and having other options, Paragon Shepard will never choose Destroy. She will prefer to sacrifice herself and stop the Reapers without killing anyone else or turning everyone into hasks. She will choose Control.



Paragon way in ME Trilogy is always about dealing with the problems, avoiding deaths and destruction. I'm not trying to be a moral compas here. I respect other people opinions, but I can't understand why they are choosing pure renegade Destroy, and trying to convince themselves that their choice was paragon. If you like Destroy, then it's your choice. You just choose the renegade way in the end, that's all.

Modifié par Seival, 29 mai 2012 - 09:05 .

[Vigilant111]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Control is still the Ayn Rand ending.

BLEUGH. 

and Destroy is the Hitler ending

Yes, where Hitler gets destroyed

[Seival]

Vigilant111 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Control is still the Ayn Rand ending.

BLEUGH. 

and Destroy is the Hitler ending

Yes, where Hitler gets destroyed

...By sacrificing millions of innocent civilians standing between you and the "Hitler".

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Control is still the Ayn Rand ending.

BLEUGH. 

and Destroy is the Hitler ending

Yes, where Hitler gets destroyed

Whilst sacrificing an entire species to sate your need for revenge. 

[Shallyah]

Seival wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Control is still the Ayn Rand ending.

BLEUGH. 

and Destroy is the Hitler ending

Yes, where Hitler gets destroyed

...By sacrificing millions of innocent civilians standing between you and the "Hitler".

No, by sacrificing millions of TVs. We'll just fabricate them again. We'll even make the International Day of the TV, where we all remember humbly the terrible sacrifice of the TVs for a world of eternal peace and harmony. Each one of us would have done the same as the TVs if we had to, to forever stop the war and remove the possibility of it ever returning.

And the hero of the day lives to reunite with his love and retire in a beachfront property, as he well deserved by doing the right thing. A just reward for a job well done.

Huzzah!

Modifié par Shallyah, 29 mai 2012 - 09:44 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Shallyah wrote...

No, by sacrificing millions of TVs. We'll just fabricate them again (if we really miss them all that much).

Good luck trying to invent the Geth again. 

And the hero of the day lives to reunite with his love and retire in a beachfront property, as he well deserved by doing the right thing. A just reward for a job well done.

Huzzah!

Funny, that happens in control as well, except I get to do that for a thousand years with Liara. 

[Shallyah]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Funny, that happens in control as well, except I get to do that for a thousand years with Liara. 

Aww. You would love that, wouldn't you? 

Being delusional doesn't make it happen.

Don't worry, we all make wrong choices.

[Vigilant111]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Whilst sacrificing an entire species to sate your need for revenge. 

not revenge, damage control

[The Night Mammoth]

Shallyah wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Funny, that happens in control as well, except I get to do that for a thousand years with Liara. 

Aww. You would love that, wouldn't you? 

Being delusional doesn't make it happen.

Don't worry, we all make wrong choices.

Prove me wrong. 

No really, have a try. Elsewise I'll put it once again to illogical emotion, the pervading motivation of anyone who chooses destroy. Well, not quite just anyone who makes that choice, more like everyone who refuses to see any other possible choice, no matter what it is.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 29 mai 2012 - 09:50 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Whilst sacrificing an entire species to sate your need for revenge. 

not revenge, damage control

Revenge. You hate and despise the Reapers so much, you want them dead so much that you're not even willing to consider any other possibility that their outright deaths, even though that causes the eradication of an entire irreplaceable species. 

[Shallyah]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Funny, that happens in control as well, except I get to do that for a thousand years with Liara. 

Aww. You would love that, wouldn't you? 

Being delusional doesn't make it happen.

Don't worry, we all make wrong choices.

Prove me wrong. 

No really, have a try. Elsewise I'll put it once again to illogical emotion, the pervading motivation for everyone who chooses destroy. 

You Control people have a hard time understanding the meaning of the words "You will die" and seeing someone disintegrate when grabbing some plasma nodes.

But I'll play your game.

The Geth don't die in Destroy ending. Prove me wrong.

[The Night Mammoth]

Shallyah wrote...

You Control people have a hard time understanding the meaning of the words "You will die" and seeing someone disintegrate when grabbing some plasma nodes.

I see Shepard's organic form die before my eyes, as she becomes the new Catalyst. 

If she just, well, died, the Reapers wouldn't fly away. 

The Geth don't die in Destroy ending. Prove me wrong.

Not going to try. If you accept that I won't try to oppose the conclusion. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 29 mai 2012 - 09:52 .

[Vigilant111]

Seival wrote...

...By sacrificing millions of innocent civilians standing between you and the "Hitler".

DON'T even preach to me about innocent civilians, u think the Geth and EDI would want me to take synthesis or control? what the HELL do u know about sacrificing? U think I don't feel the pain? what happend to defeat the reapers on all costs, u think u can just weasle out of sacrificing that easily? u think is THAT easy to end the reaper threat?!

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Seival wrote...

...By sacrificing millions of innocent civilians standing between you and the "Hitler".

DON'T even preach to me about innocent civilians, u think the Geth and EDI would want me to take synthesis or control? what the HELL do u know about sacrificing? U think I don't feel the pain? what happend to defeat the reapers on all costs, u think u can just weasle out of sacrificing that easily? u think is THAT easy to end the reaper threat?!

Pretty easy. 

Just grab those rods over there, everything will be taken care of. 

[Shallyah]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

You Control people have a hard time understanding the meaning of the words "You will die" and seeing someone disintegrate when grabbing some plasma nodes.

I see Shepard's organic form die before my eyes, as she becomes the new Catalyst. 

If she just, well, died, the Reapers wouldn't fly away. 

The Geth don't die in Destroy ending. Prove me wrong.

Not going to try. If you accept that I won't try to oppose the conclusion. 

Well, since you can't prove that the Geth die in Destroy end, Destroy is by far the best ending. It removes the Reapers from the Galaxy forever without any drawbacks. All those thousands of races that have been killed, all those trillions of lives that were mercilessly slaughtered as they were mocked by their insignificance, won't happen ever again. Not even the most remote chance since the Reapers are gone. 

Control might have been good, if not because of how morally wrong is to hold a race slave and how pretentious it is to want to become a god. Not like Shepard. Or not like Paragon Shepard at least, I can see a Renegade Shepard wanting to play god with his toy Reapers.

And that's not even considering that the Reapers still exist, and they know what is their only purpose, the only reason for they exist. "Each a nation, independant and unique". I definitely wouldn't sleep easy.

Modifié par Shallyah, 29 mai 2012 - 09:59 .

[Vigilant111]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Whilst sacrificing an entire species to sate your need for revenge. 

not revenge, damage control

Revenge. You hate and despise the Reapers so much, you want them dead so much that you're not even willing to consider any other possibility that their outright deaths, even though that causes the eradication of an entire irreplaceable species. 

revenge, hate, dislike, bulls**t, crap, whatever u like, the death of reapers is better than they live

[Seival]

Shallyah wrote...

Seival wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

MerchantGOL wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Control is still the Ayn Rand ending.

BLEUGH. 

and Destroy is the Hitler ending

Yes, where Hitler gets destroyed

...By sacrificing millions of innocent civilians standing between you and the "Hitler".

No, by sacrificing millions of TVs. We'll just fabricate them again. We'll even make the International Day of the TV, where we all remember humbly the terrible sacrifice of the TVs for a world of eternal peace and harmony. Each one of us would have done the same as the TVs if we had to, to forever stop the war and remove the possibility of it ever returning.

And the hero of the day lives to reunite with his love and retire in a beachfront property, as he well deserved by doing the right thing. A just reward for a job well done.

Huzzah!

Geth are not TVs, they are people. And they are unique. They can't be just rebuild... Especially with Modified Reaper Code missing. Even Legion chooses Control in the end, and even Tali finally agrees that geth have souls... You should replay Rannoch missions, I guess.

[Vigilant111]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Seival wrote...

...By sacrificing millions of innocent civilians standing between you and the "Hitler".

DON'T even preach to me about innocent civilians, u think the Geth and EDI would want me to take synthesis or control? what the HELL do u know about sacrificing? U think I don't feel the pain? what happend to defeat the reapers on all costs, u think u can just weasle out of sacrificing that easily? u think is THAT easy to end the reaper threat?!

Pretty easy. 

Just grab those rods over there, everything will be taken care of. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh man, this one is clearly delusional

Modifié par Vigilant111, 29 mai 2012 - 09:59 .

[Jackums]

Shallyah wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Funny, that happens in control as well, except I get to do that for a thousand years with Liara. 

Aww. You would love that, wouldn't you? 

Being delusional doesn't make it happen.

Don't worry, we all make wrong choices.

Prove me wrong. 

No really, have a try. Elsewise I'll put it once again to illogical emotion, the pervading motivation for everyone who chooses destroy. 

You Control people have a hard time understanding the meaning of the words "You will die" and seeing someone disintegrate when grabbing some plasma nodes.

But I'll play your game.

The Geth don't die in Destroy ending. Prove me wrong.

Ah, so even more than revenge, it's selfishness. You don't want to die, that's why you choose Destroy. I see, I see..