4520 réponses à ce sujet

[Vigilant111]

JackumsD wrote...

Ah, so even more than revenge, it's selfishness. You don't want to die, that's why you choose Destroy. I see, I see..

Wrong, in my destroy ending he died

[The Night Mammoth]

Shallyah wrote...


Well, since you can't prove that the Geth die in Destroy end, Destroy is by far the best ending. It removes the Reapers from the Galaxy forever without any drawbacks. All those thousands of races that have been killed, all those trillions of lives that were mercilessly slaughtered as they were mocked by their insignificance, won't happen ever again. Not even the most remote chance since the Reapers are gone.

You can't prove the Geth live after the serpent tells you they will die. 

Hence Destroy becomes even more of a gamble. 

Control might have been good, if not because of how morally wrong is to hold a race slave

Ha, as anyone cares whether the Reapers are enslaved.

and how pretentious it is to want to become a god.

Ha, that's making a fair few assumptions there, all of which are wrong. 

Not like Shepard. Or not like Paragon Shepard at least, I can see a Renegade Shepard wanting to play god with his toy Reapers.

I can see Paragon Shepard wanting to find a better solution to mass murder and the destruction of the Relays. 

And that's not even considering that the Reapers still exist, and they know what is their only purpose, the only reason for they exist. Each a nation, independant and unique. I definitely wouldn't sleep easy.

I will once each and every one of them glides slowly for a holiday into the center of the nearest sun. 

[Shallyah]

JackumsD wrote...


Ah, so even more than revenge, it's selfishness. You don't want to die, that's why you choose Destroy. I see, I see..

Nope, not dying is the reward for winning the game.

I thought Shepard would die when I picked it.

It was the only real sacrifice, to die for the Galaxy. Both Control and Synthesis are the most egocentrical and selfish choices a character has ever made in a videogame. Either become a god, or force your DNA into all the universe. My Shepard is much more humble than that, and went up there to win a war, not to lose all his morales and principles to become the center of the Universe.

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Seival wrote...

...By sacrificing millions of innocent civilians standing between you and the "Hitler".

DON'T even preach to me about innocent civilians, u think the Geth and EDI would want me to take synthesis or control? what the HELL do u know about sacrificing? U think I don't feel the pain? what happend to defeat the reapers on all costs, u think u can just weasle out of sacrificing that easily? u think is THAT easy to end the reaper threat?!

Pretty easy. 

Just grab those rods over there, everything will be taken care of. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh man, this one is clearly delusional

Oh god, the arrogance physically harms my eyes. 

Go ahead and try to prove why I firstly, can't control the Reapers, and secondly, why I absolutely shouldn't. 

[Vigilant111]

@Mammoth: u seem to think that mass relays are these benevolent things, u r wrong, they are traps for reapers to harvest, they made the organics to rely on them, its like an addictive drug

[Vigilant111]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

Seival wrote...

...By sacrificing millions of innocent civilians standing between you and the "Hitler".

DON'T even preach to me about innocent civilians, u think the Geth and EDI would want me to take synthesis or control? what the HELL do u know about sacrificing? U think I don't feel the pain? what happend to defeat the reapers on all costs, u think u can just weasle out of sacrificing that easily? u think is THAT easy to end the reaper threat?!

Pretty easy. 

Just grab those rods over there, everything will be taken care of. 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, oh man, this one is clearly delusional

Oh god, the arrogance physically harms my eyes. 

Go ahead and try to prove why I firstly, can't control the Reapers, and secondly, why I absolutely shouldn't. 

Because u r human, and a human makes mistakes, it is what makes a human human, it is sheer arrogance to imply a human can control everything, ringing any bells? TIM?

[Shallyah]

[quote]The Night Mammoth wrote...

[quote]Shallyah wrote...


Well, since you can't prove that the Geth die in Destroy end, Destroy is by far the best ending. It removes the Reapers from the Galaxy forever without any drawbacks. All those thousands of races that have been killed, all those trillions of lives that were mercilessly slaughtered as they were mocked by their insignificance, won't happen ever again. Not even the most remote chance since the Reapers are gone. [/quote]

You can't prove the Geth live after the serpent tells you they will die. 

Hence Destroy becomes even more of a gamble. 
[/quote]
[/quote]
You can't prove that the Geth live in Control ending, either.

[quote]

[quote]Control might have been good, if not because of how morally wrong is to hold a race slave[/quote]
Ha, as anyone cares whether the Reapers are enslaved.
[/quote]

Of course we do. Slaveship is moraly wrong, and my Paragon Shepard would shoot himself before becoming a slaver. I respect my character's identity, it's called a RPG.

[quote]
[quote]and how pretentious it is to want to become a god. [/quote]

Ha, that's making a fair few assumptions there, all of which are wrong. 
[/quote]

Prove me wrong.

[quote]
[quote]Not like Shepard. Or not like Paragon Shepard at least, I can see a Renegade Shepard wanting to play god with his toy Reapers.[/quote]

I can see Paragon Shepard wanting to find a better solution to mass murder and the destruction of the Relays. 

[/quote]

Mike Gamble said on twitter that the relays can be rebuilt in all 3 endings. Damn, I just shot down one of your bigger points. Apologies.

[quote]
[quote]And that's not even considering that the Reapers still exist, and they know what is their only purpose, the only reason for they exist. Each a nation, independant and unique. I definitely wouldn't sleep easy.

[/quote]

I will once each and every one of them glides slowly for a holiday into the center of the nearest sun. 

[/quote]

You mean that in the name of the Galaxy you will order your sentient machines to shut down or self-destruct? Damn, why do I remember a story of some people that wanted to do that with their sentient machines... I don't remember the details, but I think they ended losing 99.7% of their population and living exiled in space while the machines took their planet.

Modifié par Shallyah, 29 mai 2012 - 10:11 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

@Mammoth: u seem to think that mass relays are these benevolent things,

Not benevolent or malicious, just tools. 

u r wrong, they are traps for reapers to harvest,

And if there are no Reapers.................

Wait, wouldn't that mean there wouldn't be a harvest!? 

My god man, I'm on to something big here!

they made the organics to rely on them, its like an addictive drug

For a time.

Until the limitations are advanced past, which will happen eventually.

[Vigilant111]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

For a time.

Until the limitations are advanced past, which will happen eventually.

For a time? so u admit that they r thriving on the reliance on mass relays? this is serious war crime material.

limitations can be advanced past with or without the reapers, it is not like the reapers helped organics to develop tech themselves

[Seival]

By the way... I wanna remind to all Destroy ending fans that they actually have their own support thread:

http://social.biowar...ndex/12264531/1 

I'll even bump it for you 
You really shouldn't tell Control ending fans how much do you like Destroy ending every 30 seconds 

[Shallyah]

Seival wrote...

By the way... I wanna remind to all Destroy ending fans that they actually have their own support thread:

http://social.biowar...ndex/12264531/1 

I'll even bump it for you 
You really shouldn't tell Control ending fans how much do you like Destroy ending every 30 seconds 

So when we say that Control ending is not as good as you paint it, you want us out of your thread?

Nuh huh. Not happening. There is this thing called Freedom of Speech that humanity achieved a few decades ago.

If you don't want difering opinions don't make public posts. You can create a forum usergroup and talk there in private without anyone telling you why you're wrong.

Modifié par Shallyah, 29 mai 2012 - 10:26 .

[Vigilant111]

Seival wrote...

By the way... I wanna remind to all Destroy ending fans that they actually have their own support thread:

http://social.biowar...ndex/12264531/1 

I'll even bump it for you 
You really shouldn't tell Control ending fans how much do you like Destroy ending every 30 seconds 

We r not FANS of the destroy ending but merely comparing options and decided that destroy is the most sensible, and I don't see the need to overly emphasising the support for destroy, if u r truly good, u don't need to advertise it

[The Night Mammoth]

Shallyah wrote...

The Geth die in Control Ending. Prove me wrong.

Don't need to. No mention of their deaths is made whilst reffering to control, whilst there is for destroy. 

Thus, whilst in face-value mode for the serpent's words, the Geth don't die and there's no reason to believe they will. 

But there is for destroy. Like I said though, if you want to believe they don't, I have no problem with it. 

Of course we do. Slaveship is moraly wrong, and my Paragon Shepard would shoot himself before becoming a slaver. I respect my character's identity, it's called a RPG.

We? I hope I'm not included in that plural. 

I don't care about the Reapers. I'd care about any other sapient life form that has any other social characteristic that doesn't involve the genocide of trillions. The Reapers are just murdering psychopaths without regret or pity, without the emotions that make someone a balanced and worthwhile being to exist. So frankly, I don't care if I 'enslave' them, their feelings aren't worth my consideration. At least under my control they can do some good before dying.

Prove me wrong.

Assuming Shepard wants to become a god. Assumption is wrong. Shepard is choosing a better option to the deaths of the Geth and EDI, and the loss of the Relays. The control the Reapers is just a means to that end. 

Assuming Shepard will then play god using the Reapers. Assumption is wrong. At most, the Relays will be rebuilt, the galaxy will be given a helping hand at reconstructing their vital infrastructure, and the Reapers will then be disposed of. 

Mike Gamble said on twitter that the relays can be rebuilt in all 3 endings. Damn, I just shot down one of your bigger points. Apologies.

Not really. I never said they couldn't be rebuilt in any other ending, so once again, you're assuming something wrongly. 

Control just allows them to be rebuilt a tad quicker than destroy. And by a tad, I mean a lot, and by a lot, I mean  A LOT. 

You mean, you will order your sentien machines you control to shut down or self-destruct?

Sapient machines, under direct control, yes. 

Damn, why do I remember a story of some people that wanted to do that with their sentient machines

I don't. 

... I don't know how it went, but I think they ended losing 99.7% of their population and living exiled in space.

Oh you mean the Quarians, oh right, yeah, when they tried to involuntarily take the Geth offline because the Geth had gained independance from their control. 

The situation would be similar if somehow the Reapers subvert their control, which considering they've been being ordered around by the serpent for millions of years, seems unlikely. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 29 mai 2012 - 10:29 .

[Jackums]

I could have sworn this was a Control support thread. I must have completely misread the part where it said "Destroy Ending Support Thread".

My bad, I'm sorry.

Shallyah wrote...

You can't prove the Geth live after the serpent tells you they will die.

You can't prove that this world exists and that we're not all comatose in pods in some sort of matrix right now. You can't prove that I'm not a figment of your imagination. You can't prove that humans don't all communicate telepathically and verbal speech is just a perception and an incomprehensible product of our design. You can't prove reality.


c wut a did thar?

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

For a time.

Until the limitations are advanced past, which will happen eventually.

For a time? so u admit that they r thriving on the reliance on mass relays? this is serious war crime material.

Admitting? You sound like was dancing around the issue. Yes, the species of this cycle rely on the Mass Relays. Nothing inherently wrong with that. 

Wait, how the f*ck is this 'war crime' material, explain that sentence. 

limitations can be advanced past with or without the reapers, it is not like the reapers helped organics to develop tech themselves

They could have, given time. The Protheans started along that road. 

The only barrier in the way of anyone actually achieving something superior to the Relays given time was the Reapers. 

Remove the Reapers.

[Seival]

Shallyah wrote...

Seival wrote...

By the way... I wanna remind to all Destroy ending fans that they actually have their own support thread:

http://social.biowar...ndex/12264531/1 

I'll even bump it for you 
You really shouldn't tell Control ending fans how much do you like Destroy ending every 30 seconds 

Now that we're proving that Control ending is bad, you want us out of your thread?

Nuh huh. Not happening.

If you don't want difering opinions don't make public posts.

Sorry, but all Destroy ending fans here only prove that Destroy is true Renegade option, and Control is true Paragon option again and again... And somehow always trying to ignore replies like this one:

 

No, by sacrificing millions of TVs. We'll just fabricate them again. We'll even make the International Day of the TV, where we all remember humbly the terrible sacrifice of the TVs for a world of eternal peace and harmony. Each one of us would have done the same as the TVs if we had to, to forever stop the war and remove the possibility of it ever returning.

And the hero of the day lives to reunite with his love and retire in a beachfront property, as he well deserved by doing the right thing. A just reward for a job well done.

Huzzah!

Geth are not TVs, they are people. And they are unique. They can't be just rebuild... Especially with Modified Reaper Code missing. Even Legion chooses Control in the end, and even Tali finally agrees that geth have souls... You should replay Rannoch missions, I guess.

 

Modifié par Seival, 29 mai 2012 - 10:30 .

[ghost9191]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Shallyah wrote...


The Geth die in Control Ending. Prove me wrong.

Don't need to. No mention of their deaths is made whilst reffering to control, whilst there is for destroy. 

Thus, whilst in face-value mode for the serpent's words, the Geth don't die and there's no reason to beleive they will. 

But there is for destroy. Like I said though, if you want to believe they don't, I have no problem with it. 

Of course we do. Slaveship is moraly wrong, and my Paragon Shepard would shoot himself before becoming a slaver. I respect my character's identity, it's called a RPG.

We? I hope I'm not included in that plural. 

I don't care about the Reapers. I'd care about any other sapient life form that has any other social characteristic that doesn't involve the genocide of trillions. The Reapers are just murdering psychopaths without regret or pity, without the emotions that make someone a balanced and worthwhile being to exist. So frankly, I don't care if I 'enslave' them, their feelings aren't worth my consideration. At least under my control they can do some good before dying.

Prove me wrong.

Assuming Shepard wants to become a god. Assumption is wrong. Shepard is choosing a better option to the deaths of the Geth and EDI, and the loss of the Relays. The control the Reapers is just a means to that end. 

Assuming Shepard will then play god using the Reapers. Assumption is wrong. At most, the Relays will be rebuilt, the galaxy will be given a helping hand at reconstructing their vital infrastructure, and the Reapers will then be disposed of. 

Mike Gamble said on twitter that the relays can be rebuilt in all 3 endings. Damn, I just shot down one of your bigger points. Apologies.

Not really. I never said they couldn't be rebuilt in any other ending, so once again, you're assuming something wrongly. 

Control just allows them to be rebuilt a tad quicker than destroy. And by a tad, I mean a lot, and by a lot, I mean  A LOT. 

You mean, you will order your sentien machines you control to shut down or self-destruct?

Sapient machines, under direct control, yes. 

Damn, why do I remember a story of some people that wanted to do that with their sentient machines

I don't. 

... I don't know how it went, but I think they ended losing 99.7% of their population and living exiled in space.

Oh you mean the Quarians, oh right, yeah, when they tried to involuntarily take the Geth offline because the Geth had gained independance from their control. 

The situation would be similar if somehow the Reapers subvert their control, which considering they've been being ordered around by the serpent for millions of years, seems unlikely. 

becoming what you have fought to destroy is always a good idea. and considering that shepard dies i am not 100% sure your ideas will carry over.  just me. I mean all choices are wrong in their own way but destroy is the only option that ends the reaper threat for good.

[Vigilant111]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

For a time? so u admit that they r thriving on the reliance on mass relays? this is serious war crime material.

Admitting? You sound like was dancing around the issue. Yes, the species of this cycle rely on the Mass Relays. Nothing inherently wrong with that. 

Wait, how the f*ck is this 'war crime' material, explain that sentence.

They could have, given time. The Protheans started along that road. 

The only barrier in the way of anyone actually achieving something superior to the Relays given time was the Reapers. 

Remove the Reapers.

TRAPS!!! mass relays were built, so civilisations are "herded" between star systems waiting to be slaughtered... without knowing, they just thought ooooo mass relays are so good, we are able to see so much about other worlds, the reapers were actively deceiving them, because mass relays carry this perceived image of quicker and more convenient space travel, people just could not stop using reaper tech until they realised that it is the exactly the same tech that sends them into their doom

EDIT: yes remove the reapers exactly, cos we don't f**king need them

Modifié par Vigilant111, 29 mai 2012 - 10:39 .

[Shallyah]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Lots of assumptions.

The quote piramid is getting big!

In any case, you just go by assumptions, probably as everyone else does, so as much as you try, you can't prove or disprove anything, simply because there is no information whatsoever. I'll patiently wait for EC DLC.

One thing is for sure, though. You're not gonna order the Reapers to fly into a Sun. That would only lead to Reaper rebellion and doom for the Galaxy. The only thing that overrides all of a sentient machine's protocols is self-preservation. That is represented numerous times during the Mass Effect trilogy. If you really try to destroy them they will rebel, and everything will be over.

Which is another reason for Control ending is a bad idea. You never know when you might do sometihng the Reapers don't like and they decide to go rogue, even in the super-optimistic assumption that Shepard could really control them during milennia after milennia.

I already said why it's also morally wrong and despicable. You think slaving is alright with your Shepard, I tell you it's not with mine. If you have a code of honor, you defeat your enemy and grant them a swift, painless death. Taking them as slaves is what tyrants do. You think it's not, I think it is, and you're not gonna convince me of anything else, so to each their own.

By the way, even if it wouldn't work, making the cold decission of ordering the Reapers to fly into a Sun to watch them die. That is Paragon too, right? I see you Control Enders are the true Paragons. No doubt.

Modifié par Shallyah, 29 mai 2012 - 10:40 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...


TRAPS!!! mass relays were built, so civilisations are "herded" between star systems waiting to be slaughtered... without knowing, they just thought ooooo mass relays are so good, we are able to see so much about other worlds, the reapers were actively deceiving them, because mass relays carry this perceived image of quicker and more convenient space travel, people just could not stop using reaper tech until they realised that it is the exactly the same tech that sends them into their doom

Wow, you're completely missing the point, aren't you? 

What's actually doing the killing? Serious question. Are the Relays killing people or is it the work of *gasp* something else?

[Shallyah]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...


TRAPS!!! mass relays were built, so civilisations are "herded" between star systems waiting to be slaughtered... without knowing, they just thought ooooo mass relays are so good, we are able to see so much about other worlds, the reapers were actively deceiving them, because mass relays carry this perceived image of quicker and more convenient space travel, people just could not stop using reaper tech until they realised that it is the exactly the same tech that sends them into their doom

Wow, you're completely missing the point, aren't you? 

What's actually doing the killing? Serious question. Are the Relays killing people or is it the work of *gasp* something else?

What kills people is something that doesn't exist in my ending, and still exists in yours.

And the cool thing is that both endings allow you to keep the Mass Relays.

Let me guess which one is best option... it's really a hard choice.

Modifié par Shallyah, 29 mai 2012 - 10:42 .

[Vigilant111]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...


TRAPS!!! mass relays were built, so civilisations are "herded" between star systems waiting to be slaughtered... without knowing, they just thought ooooo mass relays are so good, we are able to see so much about other worlds, the reapers were actively deceiving them, because mass relays carry this perceived image of quicker and more convenient space travel, people just could not stop using reaper tech until they realised that it is the exactly the same tech that sends them into their doom

Wow, you're completely missing the point, aren't you? 

What's actually doing the killing? Serious question. Are the Relays killing people or is it the work of *gasp* something else?

WHAT?! the reapers built mass relays specifically for harvesting, not a direct weapon, but facilitated harvesting, like the trains to a concentration camp... what they just built them for fun?

BTW, may I suggest that control is just a fun option that is offered to gamers, u know if u enjoy humiliating the reapers?

[The Night Mammoth]

Shallyah wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Lots of assumptions.

The quote piramid is getting big!

In any case, you just go by assumptions, probably as everyone else does, so as much as you try, you can't prove or disprove anything, simply because there is no information whatsoever. I'll patiently wait for EC DLC.

First assumption. 

You believe I'm trying to prove or disprove anything. 

One thing is for sure, though. You're not gonna order the Reapers to fly into a Sun. That would only lead to Reaper rebellion and doom for the Galaxy.

Second assumption. 

With total control I see no reason why it can't happen. 

The only thing that overrides all of a sentient machine's protocols is self-preservation.

Third assumption.

You assume the Reapers are just sentient. If so, they would not have emotion, their slavery would not matter providing their needs are seen to. 

Fourth assumption. 

You thusly assume self-preservation overcomes all other aspects of their existence. If so, the Reapers would not mercilessly attack the galaxy and risk so many ships, which are apparently massive libaries of their previous kills remember, so frivalously. 

That is represented numerous times during the Mass Effect trilogy. If you really try to destroy them they will rebel, and everything will be over.

Fifth assumption. 

All other synthetics share the same self-preservation protocols. Given our interaction with the Geth and EDI, this is evidently not the caes.

My own assumption. Self-preservation overrides literally everything else.

Which is another reason for Control ending is a bad idea. You never know when you might do sometihng the Reapers don't like and they decide to go rogue, even in the super-optimistic assumption that Shepard could really control them during milennia after milennia.

Right, you never know. 

I'll take that gamble though. Never denied it was anything else. 

I already said why it's also morally wrong and despicable. You think slaving is alright with your Shepard, I tell you it's not with mine. If you have a code of honor, you defeat your enemy and grant them a swift, painless death. Taking them as slaves is what tyrants do.

Ah, the crux of the issue. 

Your Shepard is different from mine. You are not me. 

You think it's not, I think it is, and you're not gonna convince me of anything else, so to each their own.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything. You challenged by beliefs on the matter and I outlined why I simply don't care that the Reapers are 'enslaved'.

By the way, even if it wouldn't work, making the cold decission of ordering the Reapers to fly into a Sun to watch them die. That is Paragon too, right? I see you Control Enders are the true Paragons. No doubt.

But doing so in destroy whilst also knowing in the back of your mind the Geth might be dying too is perfectly okay, no little niggles with that, right? No doubt you predicted I would bring this up. 

[The Night Mammoth]

Vigilant111 wrote...

WHAT?! the reapers built mass relays specifically for harvesting, not a direct weapon, but facilitated harvesting, like the trains to a concentration camp... what they just built them for fun?

They built them to make their job easier. The Relays aren't doing the killing. Once the Reapers are gone they're just tools without intent. 

BTW, may I suggest that control is just a fun option that is offered to gamers, u know if u enjoy humiliating the reapers?

I wouldn't say I enjoy it. It's a necessary act to preserve the galaxy.

[The Night Mammoth]

Shallyah wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...


TRAPS!!! mass relays were built, so civilisations are "herded" between star systems waiting to be slaughtered... without knowing, they just thought ooooo mass relays are so good, we are able to see so much about other worlds, the reapers were actively deceiving them, because mass relays carry this perceived image of quicker and more convenient space travel, people just could not stop using reaper tech until they realised that it is the exactly the same tech that sends them into their doom

Wow, you're completely missing the point, aren't you? 

What's actually doing the killing? Serious question. Are the Relays killing people or is it the work of *gasp* something else?

What kills people is something that doesn't exist in my ending, and still exists in yours.

I don't know, what is it? 

Oh, it's the Krogan, am I right?

And the cool thing is that both endings allow you to keep the Mass Relays.

Let me guess which one is best option... it's really a hard choice.

Control, obviously.