4520 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

 Ayn Rand is a blight.

The Reapers being flown into a sun isn't a good idea, as adding mass to a star isn't a good thing. The issue is that Shepard still has all that power.

Black holes it is then. 

Nothing that is done in Control can't be done in Destroy, if you play your cards right.

There are things in control that can't be done in destroy, good or bad.

It's a gamble, but every choice is a gamble before you make it. 

I see no reason to fly them into a black hole. You can keep them around in Control. Or something. What would you do with them? I'm just curious.

[Jamie9]

killage_wizard wrote...

But life started from no life at some point somewhere.  Just because a species did destroy all other life does not mean it wouldn't start again.  To take control of the Reapers and continue their reason for existence is the arrogant choice (I'm not calling you arrogant personally, that's just what i believe the control choice is meant to be).

No offense taken.

True. Unless said species destroyed all the suns Haestrom-style then life would come back. But all those people would have died. It would be sad to leave them to that fate if it could be prevented.

Again, I have a feeling control and destroy are going to be altered in the EC in subtle (but signficant) ways. How they are changed may cause me to pick destroy. Or I might stick with control. It depends how they play it in the EC.

[Taboo]

I think the best thing Bioware can do, truly is to make each of the endings more viable.

The Synthesis folks can have their ending and the Destroy and Control folks, theirs.

Everybody wins!

[The Night Mammoth]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I see no reason to fly them into a black hole. You can keep them around in Control. Or something. What would you do with them? I'm just curious.

Build the Relays again, there are Reapers all around the galaxy. The possibility exists that they are only damaged and not destroyed, that could speed the process up.

Ferry people home in the mean-time. 

Massive labour force helps to kick-start the reconstruction of important infrastructure, water, food, power etc. 

With that achieved, the Reapers can take a holiday in a black hole/Haestrom's sun. 

But not before building Shepard a synthetic/organic super-body with various upgrades. 

Shepard then sits on a beach drinking martinis with Grunt, Liara, and Wrex for the next thousand years. 

[Taboo]

I don't like the idea of doing that to a sentient being. I'd rather kill something than enslave it.

Awful I know but Bioware hasn't given me much to work with.

[The Night Mammoth]

Taboo-XX wrote...

I don't like the idea of doing that to a sentient being. I'd rather kill something than enslave it.

Awful I know but Bioware hasn't given me much to work with.

Since it's a Reaper I'm doing it to, my code of ethics does not extend to freeing them of my control. 

[Walsh1980]

It ain't perfect, my Control is my preferred ending as well. Basically the only one who is sacrificed is Shepard physical body. What happens next is unknown, but my god-shep is benevolent, if firm .

Modifié par Walsh1980, 29 mai 2012 - 04:36 .

[Dean_the_Young]

I'd give them shame-receptors and then a Herculean series of immature, comedic, and de-masculating tasks for the sole purpose of making them turn red with embarrassment.

[Taboo]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

I'd give them shame-receptors and then a Herculean series of immature, comedic, and de-masculating tasks for the sole purpose of making them turn red with embarrassment.

THIS HURTS YOU.

[draken-heart]

Questions then:

1) how can Shepard control the reapers when even the smartest human in the galaxy, TIM, gets indoctrinated? i doubt the reapers would actually indoctrinate TIM but see Shepard and be like "Let's let Shepard control us. he/she is superspecial."
2) Synthesis forcibly evolves all species in the galaxy. is that not what the reapers are trying to do?
3) if we take the ending literally, would that not mean that the Citadel was rebuilt with Cement? now i am not good at space logic, but how can Shepard survive an explosion, being shot into space, and crash landing on Earth? other than high EMS=plot armor that makes Shepard invulnerable to being killed by explosion, the vacuum of space, and crashing on earth.

i am not advocating IT, just trying to logically figure out how the endings are possible at all without calling bad writing/space:wizard:

Modifié par draken-heart, 29 mai 2012 - 04:46 .

[killage_wizard]

Jamie9 wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

But life started from no life at some point somewhere.  Just because a species did destroy all other life does not mean it wouldn't start again.  To take control of the Reapers and continue their reason for existence is the arrogant choice (I'm not calling you arrogant personally, that's just what i believe the control choice is meant to be).

No offense taken.

True. Unless said species destroyed all the suns Haestrom-style then life would come back. But all those people would have died. It would be sad to leave them to that fate if it could be prevented.

Again, I have a feeling control and destroy are going to be altered in the EC in subtle (but signficant) ways. How they are changed may cause me to pick destroy. Or I might stick with control. It depends how they play it in the EC.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the EC won't actually change anything.  What I think it will do will prove IT, and possibly tease a DLC that ends the war.  To me it makes the most sense thematically, and it explains why there is the hidden scene after Destroy.  How amazing would it be if Bioware indoctrinated us by getting people to not only choose Control or Synthesis, but to get us to debate it.  That's just not indoctrinating Shepard...that's indoctrinating us as players.  That in my opinion would be a twist worthy of the entire series.

[killage_wizard]

Taboo-XX wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

Seival wrote...

Personally, I see no reason to add secret scenes to finals that don't fit for such scenes. And it looks like BioWare also don't see the reason to add more secret scenes. Also, BioWare said many times that there are no "the best choices" in ME Trilogy. There are different options. Some people prefer some particular options. It's as easy as that.

So how does Shepard waking up in the rubble "fit" the Destroy ending?  And again I am not saying that Destroy is the best because of the extra scene.  I am only saying that there is something we have not been told about that particular choice.  In order to see the scene you not only have to get most of the game's war assets, but you have to play the multiplayer as well.  That's a lot of work for an 15 seconds of footage if its nothing more than showing him surving the explosion.

I have a theory, if you'll hear me out. Destroy is the only ending were Shepard isn't visibly disintegrated. The scene were he/she breathes is pre-rendered, meaning some effort went into it.

It's there to make the people who didn't want Shepard to die, feel better.

They will have to clarify it now though.

Shepard does get engulfed in flames though.  I can't buy that such a well written series up to that point just throws a bone to people who want Shepard to live (and in my experience most people don't care as long as the ending fits) just to throw people a bone.  Why put effort into just making a few fans feel better?  

[Taboo]

killage_wizard wrote...

Shepard does get engulfed in flames though.  I can't buy that such a well written series up to that point just throws a bone to people who want Shepard to live (and in my experience most people don't care as long as the ending fits) just to throw people a bone.  Why put effort into just making a few fans feel better?  

It's called Suspension of disbelief. He's been clarified to survive. That's all I know.

He just survives.

Period.

Lame, but I can handle one more bit of nonsense I guess...

[Vox Draco]

killage_wizard wrote...
I have a sneaking suspicion that the EC won't actually change anything.  What I think it will do will prove IT, and possibly tease a DLC that ends the war.  To me it makes the most sense thematically, and it explains why there is the hidden scene after Destroy.  How amazing would it be if Bioware indoctrinated us by getting people to not only choose Control or Synthesis, but to get us to debate it.  That's just not indoctrinating Shepard...that's indoctrinating us as players.  That in my opinion would be a twist worthy of the entire series.

Well, those are my hopes exactly...though...I really see one problem with this, not for me really, I am all for destroy anyway, no matter if literal or IT...but maybe for Bioware.

It would mean, if only destroy was really right, and it was "indoctrinating" the players, that a lot of gamers (well, not that many, I guess ) were wrong, fooled, fell into a trap, and would have to acknowledge they sided with evil or felt false sympathiy for the devil...

I...don't know ... if Bioware really likes this to happen. Therefore, I stil lprefer a twist with all three choices being wrong and a trick, and an epic ending-DLC with a race against time where Shepard has to undo what the Catalyst has done to her, and somehow find a way to end the war as it should be - guns blazing, no symbolism, no philosophy, just bullets to Reaper-heads. Dead Reapers is how we win this war...

Of course true "controllers" and "Greeners" still wouldn't like it, but at least no "Destroyer" could gloat at them, well, at least no that much...Just my thoughts though...

[Seival]

draken-heart wrote...

Questions then:

1) how can Shepard control the reapers when even the smartest human in the galaxy, TIM, gets indoctrinated? i doubt the reapers would actually indoctrinate TIM but see Shepard and be like "Let's let Shepard control us. he/she is superspecial."
2) Synthesis forcibly evolves all species in the galaxy. is that not what the reapers are trying to do?
3) if we take the ending literally, would that not mean that the Citadel was rebuilt with Cement? now i am not good at space logic, but how can Shepard survive an explosion, being shot into space, and crash landing on Earth? other than high EMS=plot armor that makes Shepard invulnerable to being killed by explosion, the vacuum of space, and crashing on earth.

i am not advocating IT, just trying to logically figure out how the endings are possible at all without calling bad writing/space:wizard:

Three words: Deus Ex Machina.

...This concept is actually great for ME Trilogy endings. And EC will fill the endings with much more details  

[draken-heart]

draken-heart wrote...

Questions then:

1) how can Shepard control the reapers when even the smartest human in the galaxy, TIM, gets indoctrinated? i doubt the reapers would actually indoctrinate TIM but see Shepard and be like "Let's let Shepard control us. he/she is superspecial."
2) Synthesis forcibly evolves all species in the galaxy. is that not what the reapers are trying to do?
3) if we take the ending literally, would that not mean that the Citadel was rebuilt with Cement? now i am not good at space logic, but how can Shepard survive an explosion, being shot into space, and crash landing on Earth? other than high EMS=plot armor that makes Shepard invulnerable to being killed by explosion, the vacuum of space, and crashing on earth.

i am not advocating IT, just trying to logically figure out how the endings are possible at all without calling bad writing/space:wizard:

anti-IT folks, take a look at my questions and help me understand the logic behind the choice. do not call bad writing/space wizard did it (magic) those are not logical in the least.

[The Angry One]

JackumsD wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Seival wrote...

The final 10 minutes of the game and the following Control ending says otherwise...

They say nothing.
We have the Catalyst (who lies about and misinterprets everything) saying you can, and Shepard assuming she can on the spot for no reason.
Again, 10 seconds of Reaper control say nothing. Yeah, sure. Shepard made the Reapers go away for that long. Control is about the long term by definition.

What was that again?

Are you serious or are you just pretending to be obtuse and completely missing the point?

[draken-heart]

Deus ex makes no sense either. i said logical, not silly space illogic.

Modifié par draken-heart, 29 mai 2012 - 05:06 .

[Taboo]

It is bad writing. This cycle has repeated ad nauseum where I come from.

It's just bad.

In a fit of denial and confirmation bias, some fans have decided that Bioware did this all intentionally, picking up everything and using it as evidence.

You are no different from a conspiracy theorist.

That is logical.

[draken-heart]

logically, just having a high EMS=/=surviving being blown up, sent into space and crashing on Earth...

Scenario: if you are forced to destroy a space station to save your planet from a race of marauding aliens, you have no back-up except your mentor and he is dead, and your armor is destroyed, so even if you destroy the station, you are logically going to die in the explosion and if not, the vacuum of space will surely kill you. thatr makes no logical sense to me.

Modifié par draken-heart, 29 mai 2012 - 05:12 .

[The Angry One]

Seival wrote...

You know, in real life (when it comes to some very important moral decisions), the paragon-people who say that they are not ready are actually the ones, who are the most ready.

I am not ready to be Empress of Earth.
Therefore, I should be Empress of Earth.

The same goes for understanding some complicated moral things. So when Paragon Shepard says that "you are trying to play with things you don't understand", she proves that she is ready to understand these things correctly. She only needs a person, who explain all these things to her... And this person is a Catalist - the "Deus Ex Machina of ME Trilogy".

See the above. Recognising your limitations does not automatically mean you can surpass them.
All paragon Shepard proves is that she does not share TIM's ambition to use the Reapers to promote humanity's interests. This does not mean Shepard is in any way ready to control the Reapers.

Yes, current Control cutscene is short and needs more details. BioWare will give them to us with EC. And as they said, the endings' concept will remain the same. Finally, even right now it's obvious that Shepard gains full control of Reapers and becomes a new Catalist in the Control Ending.

No. The EC will not fix this.
What the control ending needed was foreshadowing.
Keep in mind I'm not against control as a concept. The problem is the game gives us nothing to foreshadow it that isn't negative (i.e. everybody, EVERYBODY who has strived for control has been indoctrinated).
For this to work it needs proper foreshadowing, the ability to have Shepard express pro-control sentiments, research, etc.

Hell why not a boss battle where you use captured Cerberus tech based off the Crucible schematics to control a Destroyer and fight other Reapers. Don't pretend that wouldn't be awesome.

[draken-heart]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It is bad writing. This cycle has repeated ad nauseum where I come from.

It's just bad.

In a fit of denial and confirmation bias, some fans have decided that Bioware did this all intentionally, picking up everything and using it as evidence.

You are no different from a conspiracy theorist.

That is logical.

i just do not support IT i have a theory that Shepard is fighting her own self-doubt. that is all, no indoctrination no bad writing, just wrestling with doubting the whole war against the reapers.

i do not support IT, it just provided me with the thought that maybe the whole ending after the Harby beam is in Shepard's head.

[Unschuld]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

I see no reason to fly them into a black hole. You can keep them around in Control. Or something. What would you do with them? I'm just curious.

Build the Relays again, there are Reapers all around the galaxy. The possibility exists that they are only damaged and not destroyed, that could speed the process up.

Ferry people home in the mean-time. 

Massive labour force helps to kick-start the reconstruction of important infrastructure, water, food, power etc. 

With that achieved, the Reapers can take a holiday in a black hole/Haestrom's sun. 

But not before building Shepard a synthetic/organic super-body with various upgrades. 

Shepard then sits on a beach drinking martinis with Grunt, Liara, and Wrex for the next thousand years. 

Just when I thought the speculations on the long term implications of control/synthesis couldn't get any crazier....

I... just don't know how to approach this. If this happened in the EC, I think my hair would light on fire and then my head would explode, but not before gouging out each eye with a fork. It's not because I think happy endings are corny, but when you do have one it should fit. There's something that just feels so wrong about this, at the most basic level, at the notion that the enemy from 3 games and the galaxy for the last billion years would suddenly say "m'kay" and play nice (and everyone else would go along with it too). After eons of atrocities, the abominations they've created just flipping a switch so that Cannibals and Marauders are wearing sandals on some beach sharing drinks with scantily clad Asari, while a Harvester runs the bar.......

Shepard getting a "new body" built for him so he can hang out with his friends after the reaper threat is gone? That would completely devalue the line of "You will die, you will lose everything you have but you will control them". No. Just NO. I don't care if all that can happen because "Shepard is in control". This....this is what awful is made out of. This is so much worse to think about than the ambiguity of the original endings.

No offence.

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

The Angry One wrote...

The problem is the game gives us nothing to foreshadow it that isn't negative (i.e. everybody, EVERYBODY who has strived for control has been indoctrinated).
For this to work it needs proper foreshadowing, the ability to have Shepard express pro-control sentiments, research, etc.

I wanted a Renegade "Control" option for the geth conflict; that would've been a good example. Would probably have given us more Xen too, which is always a good thing.

[Unschuld]

Mr. Big Pimpin wrote...
I wanted a Renegade "Control" option for the geth conflict; that would've been a good example. Would probably have given us more Xen too, which is always a good thing.

This would have been pretty neat. Xen's role was really marginalized in this game, when she had all sorts of possibilities... Really wish they didn't drop her subplot too.

Modifié par Unschuld, 29 mai 2012 - 05:24 .