4520 réponses à ce sujet

[killage_wizard]

HagarIshay wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...

Catalyst isn't trying to get Shepard to fail.  He is trying to indoctrinate him.  Or in other words try to get him to willingly pick Control or Synthesis.

Ahh, if he is trying to indoc Shep, it means the catlyst is trying to get Shepard to fail.

Why would the catalyst try to make Shepard only pick control or synthesis, if he also tell him/her about destroy? Couldn't he simply NOT tell him/her that? And if the catalsyt simply wanted Shepard to make a choice and he knew Shepard only wanted to destroy the reapers, wouldn't the tube be some sort of a trap? That seem more likley to me.

I would imagine in order for the indoctrination to work Shepard would need to be given the option to break in order to keep his mind tricked to stay inside the illusion.  Indoctrination can occur quickly like with husks, but there is the other type in which the mind is slowly tricked.  If I remember correctly Destroy is the only choice that the catalyst presents with a real downside with the destruction of the Geth and EDI.

[killage_wizard]

Seival wrote...

Moreover, Catalist could just let Shepard to die in the lower chamber, if it really wanted Shepard to fail. Also it could "indo" Shepard in the lower chamber... Catalist has no reasons to lie and/or force Shepard to fail.

The Reapers want to indoc Shepard.  Catalyst wants him to fail in the sense that Shepard is more valuable
indoctrinated than dead. 

Modifié par killage_wizard, 30 mai 2012 - 10:45 .

[killage_wizard]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Now you're moving on to a completely different issue. 

Can Shepard control them? 

Maybe, maybe not. I roll the dice regardless.

Shepard would roll the dice on an idea he hadn't believed in for the entire game up to that point?  That's really the crux of the argument to me.  What makes Shepard think he is the only one in the universe that can ctrol the Reapers?  Because a brand new character that never showed up until now, who has committed mass murder, told him so?  That's the definition of indoctrination.

[killage_wizard]

Seival wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Seival wrote...

liggy002, why are you trying to ignore what BioWare already said?

"IT" is really not an option, and never will be an option for ME Trilogy. Endings were already set in stone, and will be only explained in more details with EC.

Link?

Don't spread misinformation, that's the devil's job...

http://social.biowar.../index/11028404

"Are there going to be more/different endings or ending DLCs in the future?
No. BioWare strongly believes in the team's artistic vision for the end of this arc of the Mass Effect franchise. The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned."

...And if you don't believe official FAQ about EC, you may try to find a video about recent PAX meeting with fans. As far as I remember, there was an "IT" question, and the answer was "NO".

I.T, Doesn't actuallly change the ending though.  The EC may very easily confirm I.T. just as easily as it could finally debunk it.  Also, I saw the PAX interview, and the answer was far from "no".  I don't know the exact wording, but it was something to the effect of "no comment".

[jijeebo]

killage_wizard wrote...

Seival wrote...

Moreover, Catalist could just let Shepard to die in the lower chamber, if it really wanted Shepard to fail. Also it could "indo" Shepard in the lower chamber... Catalist has no reasons to lie and/or force Shepard to fail.

The Reapers want to indoc Shepard.  Catalyst wants him to fail in the sense that Shepard is more valuable
indoctrinated than dead. 

I would have to disagree, considering I spent 30 hours trying to not get killed by reapers and their troops... Right up to the charging of the conduit.

Plus the reapers are winning, all they need to do is let Shepard bleed to death and they'll destroy the Crucible before any other attempts can be made at activating it and they're home and dry.

[killage_wizard]

jijeebo wrote...

I would have to disagree, considering I spent 30 hours trying to not get killed by reapers and their troops... Right up to the charging of the conduit.

Plus the reapers are winning, all they need to do is let Shepard bleed to death and they'll destroy the Crucible before any other attempts can be made at activating it and they're home and dry.

But part of the reason for indoctrination is so that people willingly give up without a fight.  What better way to convince at least the Alliance into giving up the fight than having there biggest celebrity as the Reaper spokesperson claiming he has control over the Reapers?

[jijeebo]

killage_wizard wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

I would have to disagree, considering I spent 30 hours trying to not get killed by reapers and their troops... Right up to the charging of the conduit.

Plus the reapers are winning, all they need to do is let Shepard bleed to death and they'll destroy the Crucible before any other attempts can be made at activating it and they're home and dry.

But part of the reason for indoctrination is so that people willingly give up without a fight.  What better way to convince at least the Alliance into giving up the fight than having there biggest celebrity as the Reaper spokesperson claiming he has control over the Reapers?

That doesn't answer my point about them spending the entire trilogy trying to kill Shepard just to actively spare his life to indoctrinate him right at the very end...


Neither does it really address my point that the reapers are winning, they've taken some more casualties than usual because of the relay situation, but they're still in complete control of the battle. They have no need of such risky tactics.

[MegaSovereign]

killage_wizard wrote...

Seival wrote...

Moreover, Catalist could just let Shepard to die in the lower chamber, if it really wanted Shepard to fail. Also it could "indo" Shepard in the lower chamber... Catalist has no reasons to lie and/or force Shepard to fail.

The Reapers want to indoc Shepard.  Catalyst wants him to fail in the sense that Shepard is more valuable
indoctrinated than dead. 

So much headcannoning...so little truth.

Seriously I can't wait for the EC to release so that way everyone will finally STFU about indoctrination. Sick of hearing it.

[MegaSovereign]

The themes of Control were foreshadowed in ME2. Repurposing the geth heretics was basically the same idea as Controlling the Reapers. Paragon Shepard argued that controlling a race is unethical, but Legion replied saying that you shouldn't apply morals to synthetics as they are different than organics.

[Reptilian Rob]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The themes of Control were foreshadowed in ME2. Repurposing the geth heretics was basically the same idea as Controlling the Reapers. Paragon Shepard argued that controlling a race is unethical, but Legion replied saying that you shouldn't apply morals to synthetics as they are different than organics.

I actually like that theory a lot. 

Makes me fell slightly better about choosing Control from this point on if the EC sucks. 

[Taboo]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The themes of Control were foreshadowed in ME2. Repurposing the geth heretics was basically the same idea as Controlling the Reapers. Paragon Shepard argued that controlling a race is unethical, but Legion replied saying that you shouldn't apply morals to synthetics as they are different than organics.

I actually like that theory a lot. 

Makes me fell slightly better about choosing Control from this point on if the EC sucks. 

Don't tell me you're starting to think that............Walters is capable of foreshadowing?

[The Night Mammoth]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The themes of Control were foreshadowed in ME2. Repurposing the geth heretics was basically the same idea as Controlling the Reapers. Paragon Shepard argued that controlling a race is unethical, but Legion replied saying that you shouldn't apply morals to synthetics as they are different than organics.

I actually like that theory a lot. 

Makes me fell slightly better about choosing Control from this point on if the EC sucks. 

Don't tell me you're starting to think that............Walters is capable of foreshadowing?

http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/

[Ageless Face]

killage_wizard wrote...

I would imagine in order for the indoctrination to work Shepard would need to be given the option to break in order to keep his mind tricked to stay inside the illusion.  Indoctrination can occur quickly like with husks, but there is the other type in which the mind is slowly tricked.  If I remember correctly Destroy is the only choice that the catalyst presents with a real downside with the destruction of the Geth and EDI.

Why woudn't the catalyst tell us about the faults of destroy? Even with the downsides and without IT there are enough people who will choose destroy in a heartbeat. If there were no faults to it then much more people will choose it. 

If Shepard was indoc by the catalsyt, then it would be in the destroy ending. Why? Becasue the catalyst would not let Shepard to just destroy his lovely reapers. If Shepard will pick control or synthesis, the reapers will still live. Perhaps in destroy, the tube is actually an energy that will turn Shepard into a mindless husk or something. Then, Shepard will wake up on wherever the catalsyt placed him/her, and the end of Shepard will be by a gun from once his/her side. it makes much more sense than "If Shepard will choose the option the catalyst does not want to give him/her but still kind of does from no apperent reason then everything will be happy, happy, happy!" It does not make sense. If the catalyst doesn't want to tell Shepard about destroy, then he wouldn't. But he still does tell Shepard about the option. There are two possibilietes for why he would do that: First, the catalyst set a trap there for a Sheppard who wants still wants to fight his reapers.

Or second, the catalyst didn't try to indoctrinate Shepard. Just wanted from Shepard to pick one choice and be done with it. 

Modifié par HagarIshay, 31 mai 2012 - 08:57 .

[Reptilian Rob]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The themes of Control were foreshadowed in ME2. Repurposing the geth heretics was basically the same idea as Controlling the Reapers. Paragon Shepard argued that controlling a race is unethical, but Legion replied saying that you shouldn't apply morals to synthetics as they are different than organics.

I actually like that theory a lot. 

Makes me fell slightly better about choosing Control from this point on if the EC sucks. 

Don't tell me you're starting to think that............Walters is capable of foreshadowing?

I said theory, not fact. lol

[Taboo]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The themes of Control were foreshadowed in ME2. Repurposing the geth heretics was basically the same idea as Controlling the Reapers. Paragon Shepard argued that controlling a race is unethical, but Legion replied saying that you shouldn't apply morals to synthetics as they are different than organics.

I actually like that theory a lot. 

Makes me fell slightly better about choosing Control from this point on if the EC sucks. 

Don't tell me you're starting to think that............Walters is capable of foreshadowing?

I said theory, not fact. lol

Walters is one of the bluntest writers I've ever seen. His "metaphors" aren't even that. It's sooooooo bad sometimes.

[MegaSovereign]

Walters is a very morbid writer.

He's obsessed with death (in his writing). The maniac was responsible for Mordin's death.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 31 mai 2012 - 02:02 .

[Reptilian Rob]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Walters is a very morbid writer.

He's obsessed with death (in his writing). The maniac was responsible for Mordin's death.

It's not even that, he's just a bad writer as blunt as that sounds.

He broke several literary no nos in ME3, big one in fact. Several of which are taught in middle school.

[Taboo]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Walters is a very morbid writer.

He's obsessed with death (in his writing). The maniac was responsible for Mordin's death.

It's not even that, he's just a bad writer as blunt as that sounds.

He broke several literary no nos in ME3, big one in fact. Several of which are taught in middle school.

It's just ugly, cruel and abrasive at times. No dignity for anyone. He just kills and kills and kills.

That isn't good, mature writing.

It's exploitive and manipulative.

He reminds me of those Italian explotation directors.

The more gore the better.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO HARDCORE.

[MegaSovereign]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Walters is a very morbid writer.

He's obsessed with death (in his writing). The maniac was responsible for Mordin's death.

It's not even that, he's just a bad writer as blunt as that sounds.

He broke several literary no nos in ME3, big one in fact. Several of which are taught in middle school.

I keep hearing Walters wrote the ending with no feedback from the other writers.

Thank heavens that the writers who wrote Tuchanka and Rannoch are now heavily involved in the EC.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 31 mai 2012 - 02:10 .

[Taboo]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Walters is a very morbid writer.

He's obsessed with death (in his writing). The maniac was responsible for Mordin's death.

It's not even that, he's just a bad writer as blunt as that sounds.

He broke several literary no nos in ME3, big one in fact. Several of which are taught in middle school.

Well thank heavens that the writers who wrote Tuchanka and Rannoch are now heavily involved in the EC.

Thank whatever God everyone may or may not worship.

Weekes can write and is FAR better than Walters.

[Reptilian Rob]

Taboo-XX wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Walters is a very morbid writer.

He's obsessed with death (in his writing). The maniac was responsible for Mordin's death.

It's not even that, he's just a bad writer as blunt as that sounds.

He broke several literary no nos in ME3, big one in fact. Several of which are taught in middle school.

Well thank heavens that the writers who wrote Tuchanka and Rannoch are now heavily involved in the EC.

Thank whatever God everyone may or may not worship.

Weekes can write and is FAR better than Walters.

Weekes is my hero, one of the last BW guys who cares. 

[Taboo]

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Weekes is my hero, one of the last BW guys who cares. 

He shows he's a better in his TWEETS. The things he tweets are always mature and thoughtful and sometimes downright funny.

He's even tweeted some articles directly to Hudson via Twitter, including one on how to write an ending.

I'm still laughing at it.

He knows his **** and it shows. He should be writing in the lead, not Walters. 

Did you know Mass Effect is looking for a new lead writer? The job listing just went out.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

[MegaSovereign]

Wait are you serious? They're firing Walters?

[Reptilian Rob]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Reptilian Rob wrote...

Weekes is my hero, one of the last BW guys who cares. 

He shows he's a better in his TWEETS. The things he tweets are always mature and thoughtful and sometimes downright funny.

He's even tweeted some articles directly to Hudson via Twitter, including one on how to write an ending.

I'm still laughing at it.

He knows his **** and it shows. He should be writing in the lead, not Walters. 

Did you know Mass Effect is looking for a new lead writer? The job listing just went out.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.

Yeah, I heard.

We can only hope Walters is getting the boot. 

[Taboo]

Yeah, but the Tweet was deleted. They told us a great deal.

Sad, but that's what happens where I come from. You always do peer review in a collaborative project.

Eventually, the spider get's tangled in it's own web and dies. That's what hubris does to you in the industry. I was concerned about this and lo and behold it happened.