4520 réponses à ce sujet

[Ageless Face]

killage_wizard wrote...


But the Reapers are the bad guys.  Are you saying by choosing control you will continue the cycle and commit genocide in order to prevent a tech singularity?  I would assume most who chose control would wish to stop the cycle.

No. My Shepard will use the reapers to dispute conflicts, not find a solution for them. Only in the case the reapers will be out of control, then Shepard will handle the situation by bringing the reaper army to threating the synthetics. the geth and EDI already showed the emotion of fear. They are fearing the reapers. And they will fear them when a spooky gaint reaper will land on their planet to do a house inspection.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 01 juin 2012 - 04:28 .

[The Angry One]

Seival wrote...

Reapers are the "super-advanced-rocket-launchers". All their "thoughts" are just reflections of the current Catalist's way of thinking. If the Catalist is a "good guy", then the Reapers are "good guys" too.

What in blazes makes you think the Catalyst is a "good guy"?
It may THINK it's doing good, but herein lies another problem. What will stop Shepard from continuing the cycle, THINKING they are doing good too?

[Taboo]

^ By enslaving them. You will use a being against their will to resolve YOUR issue.

JOLLY.

[The Angry One]

HagarIshay wrote...

No. My Shepard will use the reapers to dispute conflicts, not find a solution for them. Only in the case the reapers will be out of control, then Shepard will handle the situation by bringing the reaper army to threating the synthetics. the geth and EDI already showed the emotion of fear. They are fearing the reapers. And they will fear them when a spooky gaint reaper will land on their planet to do a house inspection.

Reapers are technologically stagnant. Who's to say synthetics or organics won't advance further and start kicking Reaper ass on a regular basis?
What then? Do you enforce technological stasis on the galaxy? Yeah good luck doing that without killing anyone.

[Shallyah]

The Angry One wrote...

Seival wrote...

Reapers are the "super-advanced-rocket-launchers". All their "thoughts" are just reflections of the current Catalist's way of thinking. If the Catalist is a "good guy", then the Reapers are "good guys" too.

What in blazes makes you think the Catalyst is a "good guy"?
It may THINK it's doing good, but herein lies another problem. What will stop Shepard from continuing the cycle, THINKING they are doing good too?

Keep in mind this is the thread where people think that a human can plug into the Reaper datastream and control them without problem.

Modifié par Shallyah, 01 juin 2012 - 04:36 .

[The Angry One]

Shallyah wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Seival wrote...

Reapers are the "super-advanced-rocket-launchers". All their "thoughts" are just reflections of the current Catalist's way of thinking. If the Catalist is a "good guy", then the Reapers are "good guys" too.

What in blazes makes you think the Catalyst is a "good guy"?
It may THINK it's doing good, but herein lies another problem. What will stop Shepard from continuing the cycle, THINKING they are doing good too?

Keep in mind this is the thread where people think that a human can plug into the Reaper datastream and control them. They probably refer to Shepard being the Catalyst.

The post said "current Catalyst", besides it's not clear just what Shepard becomes, that's yet another issue.
It's also easier to refer to Shepard as Shepard and Space Hitler as the Catalyst to avoid confusion.

[Taboo]

The Angry One wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

No. My Shepard will use the reapers to dispute conflicts, not find a solution for them. Only in the case the reapers will be out of control, then Shepard will handle the situation by bringing the reaper army to threating the synthetics. the geth and EDI already showed the emotion of fear. They are fearing the reapers. And they will fear them when a spooky gaint reaper will land on their planet to do a house inspection.

Reapers are technologically stagnant. Who's to say synthetics or organics won't advance further and start kicking Reaper ass on a regular basis?
What then? Do you enforce technological stasis on the galaxy? Yeah good luck doing that without killing anyone.

Control is the Ayn Rand ending. Steeped a level of hubris so high you actually become a God.

BUT DON'T WORRY GUYS, NO ONE DIES IN THE ENDING SO IT'S OKAY.

[The Angry One]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Control is the Ayn Rand ending. Steeped a level of hubris so high you actually become a God.

BUT DON'T WORRY GUYS, NO ONE DIES IN THE ENDING SO IT'S OKAY.

Me, I'm actually fine with the arrogance if, again, it was foreshadowed and handled properly.
It could even lead to a semi-dark ending where Shepard becomes a benevolent totalitarian. People could have endless discussions on the nature of the galaxy in such a state, Shepard trading freedom for total security and prosperity of a sort.

But no let's just tack it on right at the end then show nothing.

[Shallyah]

The Angry One wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Seival wrote...

Reapers are the "super-advanced-rocket-launchers". All their "thoughts" are just reflections of the current Catalist's way of thinking. If the Catalist is a "good guy", then the Reapers are "good guys" too.

What in blazes makes you think the Catalyst is a "good guy"?
It may THINK it's doing good, but herein lies another problem. What will stop Shepard from continuing the cycle, THINKING they are doing good too?

Keep in mind this is the thread where people think that a human can plug into the Reaper datastream and control them. They probably refer to Shepard being the Catalyst.

The post said "current Catalyst", besides it's not clear just what Shepard becomes, that's yet another issue.
It's also easier to refer to Shepard as Shepard and Space Hitler as the Catalyst to avoid confusion.

Yeah well.

It doesn't matter because, you know, the brain of someone who biologically isn't ready to live beyond 120 years will no doubt handle perfectly the overwhelming data-nuking that would fry the Geth consensus. It's not like he needs to do it for a very long time... only a few billion years.

What is more! The Reapers will even get some painting, some yellow, some pink, some blue, and turn into the space carebears.

Don't worry, the Galaxy is safe.

Modifié par Shallyah, 01 juin 2012 - 04:39 .

[Ageless Face]

The Angry One wrote...


Reapers are technologically stagnant. Who's to say synthetics or organics won't advance further and start kicking Reaper ass on a regular basis?
What then? Do you enforce technological stasis on the galaxy? Yeah good luck doing that without killing anyone.

in this case, then organics will have enough advance in technology to handle the techlological sigularity themselves.

[Seival]

The Angry One wrote...

Seival wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And how is a human going to impose their will onto thousands of these Reaper minds again without it backfiring horribly?

Mass Effect deserves better than space magic. Do you think this ending would've flown in ME1? Hell no. 

This is not a "space magic", this is "Deus Ex Machina" concept: "God From the Machine" is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.

BioWare implemented DEM concept in ME3 just perfectly.

Hey. I'm going to spell this in block capitals so you understand this.

A DEUS EX MACHINA IS A BAD PLOT DEVICE. IT IS SOMETHING LOOKED DOWN ON IN LITERATURE. IT IS NOT A GOOD THING. IS BAD. NOT GOOD. TERRIBLE. THE OPPOSITE OF GOOD. NO ES BUENO.

Moreover, space magic is a form of Deus Ex Machina. I have to conclude you're trolling. This is the first time I've ever seen anyone PRAISE a writer for a DEM.

Games like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and movies like Appleseed: Ex Machina suggest otherwise.

[Taboo]

The Angry One wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Control is the Ayn Rand ending. Steeped a level of hubris so high you actually become a God.

BUT DON'T WORRY GUYS, NO ONE DIES IN THE ENDING SO IT'S OKAY.

Me, I'm actually fine with the arrogance if, again, it was foreshadowed and handled properly.
It could even lead to a semi-dark ending where Shepard becomes a benevolent totalitarian. People could have endless discussions on the nature of the galaxy in such a state, Shepard trading freedom for total security and prosperity of a sort.

But no let's just tack it on right at the end then show nothing.

Oh, I agree fully, changing the motives at the end like that? "So the Illusive Man was right after all?" That's just awe inspiringly bad.

Here's the deal, I cannot see Shepard assuming that level of power and not abusing it, which he will do whethere he/she is a Paragon or Renegade.

You ARE enslaving a race of super powerful beings after all. Pretty authoritarian to me.

[Taboo]

Seival wrote...

Games like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and movies like Appleseed: Ex Machina suggest otherwise.

I can see your exploration of world art is massive.

Implications...very telling.

[The Angry One]

Seival wrote...

Games like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and movies like Appleseed: Ex Machina suggest otherwise.

Are you going by the titles as if they justify the trope?
You're kidding, right? Tell me you're kidding.

[killage_wizard]

HagarIshay wrote...

killage_wizard wrote...


But the Reapers are the bad guys.  Are you saying by choosing control you will continue the cycle and commit genocide in order to prevent a tech singularity?  I would assume most who chose control would wish to stop the cycle.

No. My Shepard will use the reapers to dispute conflicts, not find a solution for them. Only in the case the reapers will be out of control, then Shepard will handle the situation by bringing the reaper army to threating the synthetics. the geth and EDI already showed the emotion of fear. They are fearing the reapers. And they will fear them when a spooky gaint reaper will land on their planet to do a house inspection.

Even after he argued to TIM that humans weren't ready for that responsibility, and after the Geth flat out said it is impossible to interepret the mind of a Reaper?

[Taboo]

The Angry One wrote...

Seival wrote...

Games like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and movies like Appleseed: Ex Machina suggest otherwise.

Are you going by the titles as if they justify the trope?
You're kidding, right? Tell me you're kidding.

I don't think so.

Epic fail.

[killage_wizard]

Taboo-XX wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Control is the Ayn Rand ending. Steeped a level of hubris so high you actually become a God.

BUT DON'T WORRY GUYS, NO ONE DIES IN THE ENDING SO IT'S OKAY.

Me, I'm actually fine with the arrogance if, again, it was foreshadowed and handled properly.
It could even lead to a semi-dark ending where Shepard becomes a benevolent totalitarian. People could have endless discussions on the nature of the galaxy in such a state, Shepard trading freedom for total security and prosperity of a sort.

But no let's just tack it on right at the end then show nothing.

Oh, I agree fully, changing the motives at the end like that? "So the Illusive Man was right after all?" That's just awe inspiringly bad.

Here's the deal, I cannot see Shepard assuming that level of power and not abusing it, which he will do whethere he/she is a Paragon or Renegade.

You ARE enslaving a race of super powerful beings after all. Pretty authoritarian to me.

TIM was not only wrong...he realized he was so wrong he shoots himself.

[Seival]

The Angry One wrote...

Seival wrote...

Reapers are the "super-advanced-rocket-launchers". All their "thoughts" are just reflections of the current Catalist's way of thinking. If the Catalist is a "good guy", then the Reapers are "good guys" too.

What in blazes makes you think the Catalyst is a "good guy"?
It may THINK it's doing good, but herein lies another problem. What will stop Shepard from continuing the cycle, THINKING they are doing good too?

Her way of thinking will stop her from continuing the cycle of course. It's as simple as that. 

[Shallyah]

HagarIshay wrote...


No. My Shepard will use the reapers to dispute conflicts, not find a solution for them. Only in the case the reapers will be out of control, then Shepard will handle the situation by bringing the reaper army to threating the synthetics. the geth and EDI already showed the emotion of fear. They are fearing the reapers. And they will fear them when a spooky gaint reaper will land on their planet to do a house inspection.

Neither the Geth or EDi seem very afraid of the Reapers in the game I played, to be honest. They were ready to die fighting them. In fact, I think the Geth were more afraid of Quarians, since they had to resort to joining the Reapers to have a chance for survival. Then they joined the allied fleets without a need to do so. The Reapers were after organics, not the Geth.

Modifié par Shallyah, 01 juin 2012 - 04:43 .

[Jamie9]

The Angry One wrote...

Seival wrote...

Games like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and movies like Appleseed: Ex Machina suggest otherwise.

Are you going by the titles as if they justify the trope?
You're kidding, right? Tell me you're kidding.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Deus Ex: Human Revolution didn't use a Deus Ex Machina. The end dealt with the themes of the whole game, and the whole augmentations controlling people was foreshadowed A LOT.

[Taboo]

Shallyah wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...


No. My Shepard will use the reapers to dispute conflicts, not find a solution for them. Only in the case the reapers will be out of control, then Shepard will handle the situation by bringing the reaper army to threating the synthetics. the geth and EDI already showed the emotion of fear. They are fearing the reapers. And they will fear them when a spooky gaint reaper will land on their planet to do a house inspection.

Neither the Geth or EDi seem very afraid of the Reapers in the game I played, to be honest. They were ready to die fighting them. In fact, I think the Geth were more afraid of Quarians, since they had to resort to joining the Reapers to have a chance for survival.

Destroy is the only ending that has any bearing on the narrative.

Everyone was willing to die to defeat the Reapers and destroy them.

Not Control them.

And certainly not have their bodies Synthesized. 

[The Angry One]

Seival wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Seival wrote...

Reapers are the "super-advanced-rocket-launchers". All their "thoughts" are just reflections of the current Catalist's way of thinking. If the Catalist is a "good guy", then the Reapers are "good guys" too.

What in blazes makes you think the Catalyst is a "good guy"?
It may THINK it's doing good, but herein lies another problem. What will stop Shepard from continuing the cycle, THINKING they are doing good too?

Her way of thinking will stop her from continuing the cycle of course. It's as simple as that. 

That's naive. Why will Shepard's will override Harbinger's.
Yes, Harbinger alone. Let's make it less abstract and impossible. Just one Reaper. Where in the game - in any of the games - has it even been hinted at that Shepard has the willpower to dominate Harbinger?
A being with immense and unknowable thoughts. A being who's billions of years old. A being that is the gestalt mind of an entire civilisation. A being who can remote control indoctrinated puppets - including humans - at will.
What makes Shepard's mind superior to Harbinger's? 

[M Hedonist]

Seival wrote...

Games like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and movies like Appleseed: Ex Machina suggest otherwise.

You know, I never quite understood where the Deus Ex Machina was in Human Revolution. Yeah, you have the ability to either send the world into a 'dark age' or help the Illuminati take over the world, but it's not like you do that with some unexplained piece of technology or something but simply by broadcasting a message all over the world.
Took a quick look at tvtropes. Seems they don't know where the Deus Ex Machina in that game is, either.

[Seival]

The Angry One wrote...

Seival wrote...

Games like Deus Ex: Human Revolution, and movies like Appleseed: Ex Machina suggest otherwise.

Are you going by the titles as if they justify the trope?
You're kidding, right? Tell me you're kidding.

Both mentioned titles use DEM concept and have a lot of fans... Deunan Knute might have even more fans than Shepard and Tali combined.

[Ageless Face]

killage_wizard wrote...


Even after he argued to TIM that humans weren't ready for that responsibility, and after the Geth flat out said it is impossible to interepret the mind of a Reaper?

First, whatever Shepard say is interpatated differently, because every person is playing Shepard differently. See it as a poor excuse, but that is the truth. You see it as Shepard not willing to go in TIM's way to control the reapers. I see Shepard telling TIM he can't control the reapers because it is not possible.

As for the geth... I believe there is a possibity to control the reapers. The geth are not advanced enough to understand and control the reapers. The catalyst and the crucible are far more advanced than anything known in the galaxy.