4520 réponses à ce sujet

[The Night Mammoth]

ghost9191 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

you have your reasons and he has his, if he wishes to say his are different then he can. but i doubt you can claim his reasons are different , i just mean your not him so you shouldn't know what his reasons are unless you talked before, or unless you are him then whatever i don't really care

Why can't I? 

I assumed, not stated as fact. 

You talked about something unrelated to the point he was talking about. Whatever his reasons are, I doubt they include because he agrees with the Illusive Man. 

which i am saying that you can't really know for sure. you can doubt and guess but who knows, only he does thats the thing, and i don't really care  i just threw in my 2 cents about something

That's why I assumed and didn't state a fact, DERP. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 01 juin 2012 - 05:43 .

[MegaSovereign]

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

How are they suppose to show Shepard KEEPING control....

Proper epilogue scenes?

You mean...like an extended cut?

[The Night Mammoth]

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

How are they suppose to show Shepard KEEPING control....

Proper epilogue scenes?

Please god no. 

Control is only bearable because I don't know what happens. 

[Shallyah]

Are you guys aware that you also get the textbox saying "You won! Buy DLC!" even if you end the game with 1000 EMS and turn Earth and all the allied fleet into ashes?

You sure can't be saying that you also get the "I win" textbox when you pick Control as if that was something to be proud of or it proved anything.

Modifié par Shallyah, 01 juin 2012 - 05:46 .

[MegaSovereign]

Shallyah wrote...

Are you guys aware that you also get the textbox saying "You won! Buy DLC!" even if you end the game with 1000 EMS and turn Earth and all the allied fleet into ashes?

You sure can't be saying that you also get the "I win" textbox when you pick Control as if that was something to be proud of or it proved anything.

No matter what you end the reaper threat.

Even in the worst ending the Reapers are dead or in your control.

Nice try.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 01 juin 2012 - 05:47 .

[M Hedonist]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

How are they suppose to show Shepard KEEPING control....

Proper epilogue scenes?

You mean...like an extended cut?

Personally, I'm thinking more along the lines of "What should have been in the game in the first place".
It isn't, so there's no reason to discuss something that may come.

[Taboo]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

The Catalyst is an AI that has been in a feedback loop for millions of years.

Big shocker here: He hasn't taken in any new data in that time because he doesn't let things develop to a point where Synthetics are even around for a period of time.

He's a machine with a cold, dignified purpose. He is responsible for well over two quintillion deaths and has never factored in any new information.

Daisy Bell dies when I shoot the pipe. No one should have that level of control, EVER.

You keep using the term feedback loop, but I do not think you know what it means.

In a feedback loop, something needs to be fedback, you go onto say that he does not take any new data, if he did take in new data then it would be a feedback loop, otherwise its just a loop, as far as control theory is concerned it sounds more like an open loop.  Though it certainly makes it sound that its not an AI we are dealing with but just a program with an open loop control law.

He IS in a loop. He hasn't made any new options in millions of years. He's stuck.

A feedback loop pertains to hyperbolic growth, which is NOT a sign of a singularity, which is what I'm referring to. He has no accurate chart to show his findings, which he should be doing.

He has nothing.

[The Angry One]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

How are they suppose to show Shepard KEEPING control....

Proper epilogue scenes?

You mean...like an extended cut?

Which could only solve what is shown after.
It still wouldn't resolve the foreshadowing issue, and the point is there was no excuse for not doing this in the first place.

[Bill Casey]

TSA_383 wrote...

<data>{TEMP:_Optional logs on the failed Paul Grayson and Overlord experiments. Theme of control is evident}</data>

That... doesn't sound good...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 01 juin 2012 - 05:50 .

[Shallyah]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

Are you guys aware that you also get the textbox saying "You won! Buy DLC!" even if you end the game with 1000 EMS and turn Earth and all the allied fleet into ashes?

You sure can't be saying that you also get the "I win" textbox when you pick Control as if that was something to be proud of or it proved anything.

No matter what you end the reaper threat.

Even in the worst ending the Reapers are dead or in your control.

Nice try.

I'm not trying anything, but I'm glad you're aware that Controlling the Reapers might be as good as killing everyone in Earth and BioWare still calls it a victory.

[MegaSovereign]

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

How are they suppose to show Shepard KEEPING control....

Proper epilogue scenes?

You mean...like an extended cut?

Which could only solve what is shown after.
It still wouldn't resolve the foreshadowing issue, and the point is there was no excuse for not doing this in the first place.

You're right. I don't like the ending at it's current state. It's barebones and could have been executed better.

That doesn't mean that all the concepts are terrible and that the whole thing should just be retconned.

[Shaigunjoe]

Taboo-XX wrote...
He IS in a loop. He hasn't made any new options in millions of years. He's stuck.

A feedback loop pertains to hyperbolic growth, which is NOT a sign of a singularity, which is what I'm referring to. He has no accurate chart to show his findings, which he should be doing.

He has nothing.

Not arguing he isn't in a loop.

A feedback loops does not necessarily pertain to hyperbolic growth, it can also pertain to regulated growth.  In either case you say that he has no data, which would make feedback pointless.

I have no idea why not having a chart to show data has to do with having a feedback loop, it would seem to indicate the opposite.

Modifié par Shaigunjoe, 01 juin 2012 - 06:02 .

[The Night Mammoth]

MegaSovereign wrote...

That doesn't mean that all the concepts are terrible and that the whole thing should just be retconned.

Hmm, no I think it does. 

Not a thing is redeamable, the creator should be ashamed. 

[M Hedonist]

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

How are they suppose to show Shepard KEEPING control....

Proper epilogue scenes?

You mean...like an extended cut?

Which could only solve what is shown after.
It still wouldn't resolve the foreshadowing issue, and the point is there was no excuse for not doing this in the first place.

You're right. I don't like the ending at it's current state. It's barebones and could have been executed better.

That doesn't mean that all the concepts are terrible and that the whole thing should just be retconned.

The concept of doing exactly what the villain was going to do five minutes before you is terrible.

I mean, at least the time span between Saren and the end of ME3 was longer than five minutes... no, Synthesis is still terrible, too.

Modifié par Sauruz, 01 juin 2012 - 05:59 .

[MegaSovereign]

He wasn't going to do it..He was indoctrinated and could not take control.

This is getting repetitive...

[ghost9191]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

ghost9191 wrote...

you have your reasons and he has his, if he wishes to say his are different then he can. but i doubt you can claim his reasons are different , i just mean your not him so you shouldn't know what his reasons are unless you talked before, or unless you are him then whatever i don't really care

Why can't I? 

I assumed, not stated as fact. 

You talked about something unrelated to the point he was talking about. Whatever his reasons are, I doubt they include because he agrees with the Illusive Man. 

which i am saying that you can't really know for sure. you can doubt and guess but who knows, only he does thats the thing, and i don't really care  i just threw in my 2 cents about something

That's why I assumed and didn't state a fact, DERP. 

basicly what i said when i said guess or doubt

[The Angry One]

MegaSovereign wrote...

He wasn't going to do it..He was indoctrinated and could not take control.

This is getting repetitive...

This changes that he wanted to how?
Hell, he ends up indoctrinated because of his control related experiments.
The theme is clear. Those who wish to control end up controlled........ except Shepard. Because shut up.

This is why it doesn't work.

Modifié par The Angry One, 01 juin 2012 - 06:01 .

[MegaSovereign]

Expanding on last post:

The reapers were using his ideals to make him turn against Shepard, but he could never have taken control because he was already being controlled.

[M Hedonist]

MegaSovereign wrote...

He wasn't going to do it..He was indoctrinated and could not take control.

This is getting repetitive...

Yeah. Great argument.
"So, TIM was right after all..."
"Nope, he was indoctrinated by the Reapers."
"I'll believe everything you say, Reaper king."

[Taboo]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
He IS in a loop. He hasn't made any new options in millions of years. He's stuck.

A feedback loop pertains to hyperbolic growth, which is NOT a sign of a singularity, which is what I'm referring to. He has no accurate chart to show his findings, which he should be doing.

He has nothing.

Not arguing he isn't in a loop.

A feedback loops does not necessarily pertain to hyperbolic growth, it can also pertain to regulated growth.  In either case you say that he has no data, which would make feedback pointless.

I have no idea why not having a chart to show data has to do with a feedback loop.

He is convinced that we will always be wiped out yes?

He hasn't factored in variables, that is to say things that will contribute to a feedback loop. These are things such as resources, war, famine, life expectency. He just kills beings when they become too advanced.

His loop prevents him from gathering any new data. He is completely unreliable.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 01 juin 2012 - 06:01 .

[Shaigunjoe]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
He IS in a loop. He hasn't made any new options in millions of years. He's stuck.

A feedback loop pertains to hyperbolic growth, which is NOT a sign of a singularity, which is what I'm referring to. He has no accurate chart to show his findings, which he should be doing.

He has nothing.

Not arguing he isn't in a loop.

A feedback loops does not necessarily pertain to hyperbolic growth, it can also pertain to regulated growth.  In either case you say that he has no data, which would make feedback pointless.

I have no idea why not having a chart to show data has to do with a feedback loop.

He is convinced that we will always be wiped out yes?

He hasn't factored in variables, that is to say things that will contribute to a feedback loop. These are things such as resources, war, famine, life expectency. He just kills beings when they become too advanced.

His loop prevents him from gathering any new data. He is completely unreliable.

Yes, that was my point, not a feedback loop.

[MegaSovereign]

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

He wasn't going to do it..He was indoctrinated and could not take control.

This is getting repetitive...

Yeah. Great argument.
"So, TIM was right after all..."
"Nope, he was indoctrinated by the Reapers."
"I'll believe everything you say, Reaper king."

That line is so vague. Shepard could just be referring to the fact that TIM said that the Crucible can control the Reapers....he doesn't have to be referring to his methods or ideals of dominance.

[Taboo]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
He IS in a loop. He hasn't made any new options in millions of years. He's stuck.

A feedback loop pertains to hyperbolic growth, which is NOT a sign of a singularity, which is what I'm referring to. He has no accurate chart to show his findings, which he should be doing.

He has nothing.

Not arguing he isn't in a loop.

A feedback loops does not necessarily pertain to hyperbolic growth, it can also pertain to regulated growth.  In either case you say that he has no data, which would make feedback pointless.

I have no idea why not having a chart to show data has to do with a feedback loop.

He is convinced that we will always be wiped out yes?

He hasn't factored in variables, that is to say things that will contribute to a feedback loop. These are things such as resources, war, famine, life expectency. He just kills beings when they become too advanced.

His loop prevents him from gathering any new data. He is completely unreliable.

Yes, that was my point, not a feedback loop.

He perceives hyperbolic growth as a sign of an oncoming singularity, this is not true. He doesn't factor anything in but his logic, which makes him irrelevant.

I should have worded my post better...

[Shallyah]

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

He wasn't going to do it..He was indoctrinated and could not take control.

This is getting repetitive...

Yeah. Great argument.
"So, TIM was right after all..."
"Nope, he was indoctrinated by the Reapers."
"I'll believe everything you say, Reaper king."

I can even imagine how TIM was indoctrinated.

TIM: Wait, are you sure I can control you to end this?
Harbinger: Yes. We grow weary of harvesting. You will lead us to a new future.
TIM: Alright... but Shepard thinks it's not possible. I don't know... I respect him but...
Harbinger: His real goal is to control us himself, but he couldn't because he is already indoctrinated.
TIM: Damn it. I need to save humanity! What's the way to the Crucible?
Harbinger: Get on, I'll give you a ride.

I also suddenly solved the mystery to how did TIM suddenly appear in the Crucible.

Modifié par Shallyah, 01 juin 2012 - 06:06 .

[The Angry One]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

He wasn't going to do it..He was indoctrinated and could not take control.

This is getting repetitive...

Yeah. Great argument.
"So, TIM was right after all..."
"Nope, he was indoctrinated by the Reapers."
"I'll believe everything you say, Reaper king."

That line is so vague. Shepard could just be referring to the fact that TIM said that the Crucible can control the Reapers....he doesn't have to be referring to his methods or ideals of dominance.

It's still a stupid line.
I mean, they could say anything else, like for example "So controlling the Reapers is possible?".
Why bring TIM into it at all? If this was their attempt to make a moral grey area antagonist out of TIM, they failed miserably.