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[MegaSovereign]

The Angry One wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

He wasn't going to do it..He was indoctrinated and could not take control.

This is getting repetitive...

Yeah. Great argument.
"So, TIM was right after all..."
"Nope, he was indoctrinated by the Reapers."
"I'll believe everything you say, Reaper king."

That line is so vague. Shepard could just be referring to the fact that TIM said that the Crucible can control the Reapers....he doesn't have to be referring to his methods or ideals of dominance.

It's still a stupid line.
I mean, they could say anything else, like for example "So controlling the Reapers is possible?".
Why bring TIM into it at all? If this was their attempt to make a moral grey area antagonist out of TIM, they failed miserably.

Yea I hate it too.

[Jamie9]

The Angry One wrote...

It's still a stupid line.
I mean, they could say anything else, like for example "So controlling the Reapers is possible?".
Why bring TIM into it at all? If this was their attempt to make a moral grey area antagonist out of TIM, they failed miserably.

I don't know how they managed it either because ME2 did a good job of TIM and Cerberus I thought.

[Shaigunjoe]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Shaigunjoe wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...
He IS in a loop. He hasn't made any new options in millions of years. He's stuck.

A feedback loop pertains to hyperbolic growth, which is NOT a sign of a singularity, which is what I'm referring to. He has no accurate chart to show his findings, which he should be doing.

He has nothing.

Not arguing he isn't in a loop.

A feedback loops does not necessarily pertain to hyperbolic growth, it can also pertain to regulated growth.  In either case you say that he has no data, which would make feedback pointless.

I have no idea why not having a chart to show data has to do with a feedback loop.

He is convinced that we will always be wiped out yes?

He hasn't factored in variables, that is to say things that will contribute to a feedback loop. These are things such as resources, war, famine, life expectency. He just kills beings when they become too advanced.

His loop prevents him from gathering any new data. He is completely unreliable.

Yes, that was my point, not a feedback loop.

He perceives hyperbolic growth as a sign of an oncoming singularity, this is not true. He doesn't factor anything in but his logic, which makes him irrelevant.

I should have worded my post better...

I usually am not so picky about semantics, but I have seen you use it a few times so I wanted to say something.

Although I am curious, where did he say he perceives hyperbolic growth as a sign of an oncoming singularity?  It really seems to be a set 50,000 year interval.

[M Hedonist]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

He wasn't going to do it..He was indoctrinated and could not take control.

This is getting repetitive...

Yeah. Great argument.
"So, TIM was right after all..."
"Nope, he was indoctrinated by the Reapers."
"I'll believe everything you say, Reaper king."

That line is so vague. Shepard could just be referring to the fact that TIM said that the Crucible can control the Reapers....he doesn't have to be referring to his methods or ideals of dominance.

I don't know what you think what I'm saying but I'm saying that being indoctrinated by the Reapers and believing what the Reaper king tells you aren't so different.
You say TIM couldn't have taken control because he was indoctrinated, how do you know that for certain? Right, the Reaper king tells you. There's either something terribly wrong going on here or the writing is just horrendously bad.

[balance5050]

 No mind can possibly control thousands of sentient ships spread out through the galaxy, it's not something that an organic mind is meant to do. Also if you take into account this cut dialogue, Shepard knows that there is only blackness after death.

[Taboo]

Shaigunjoe wrote...

I usually am not so picky about semantics, but I have seen you use it a few times so I wanted to say something.

Although I am curious, where did he say he perceives hyperbolic growth as a sign of an oncoming singularity?  It really seems to be a set 50,000 year interval.

That's my issue actually. Why every fifty thousand years? Is that a set period? I would think that it isn't set and is only an average.

If it is he doesn't allow for variables. He simply perceives that a rapid growth of a civilization means that they need to be harvested. In that case he perceives that hyperbolic growth will eventually lead to synthetics.

He doesn't factor in the feedback loop. Resources, intelligence, energy, all factor into the equation.

[MegaSovereign]

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

He wasn't going to do it..He was indoctrinated and could not take control.

This is getting repetitive...

Yeah. Great argument.
"So, TIM was right after all..."
"Nope, he was indoctrinated by the Reapers."
"I'll believe everything you say, Reaper king."

That line is so vague. Shepard could just be referring to the fact that TIM said that the Crucible can control the Reapers....he doesn't have to be referring to his methods or ideals of dominance.

I don't know what you think what I'm saying but I'm saying that being indoctrinated by the Reapers and believing what the Reaper king tells you aren't so different.
You say TIM couldn't have taken control because he was indoctrinated, how do you know that for certain? Right, the Reaper king tells you. There's either something terribly wrong going on here or the writing is just horrendously bad.

If he was lying he wouldn't point you to where you go to destroy the reapers =/.

If you guys are gonna headcanon, then so am I. The Crucible, once attached to the Citadel, makes the Catalyst tell the truth.

I WIN.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 01 juin 2012 - 06:14 .

[balance5050]

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

He wasn't going to do it..He was indoctrinated and could not take control.

This is getting repetitive...

Yeah. Great argument.
"So, TIM was right after all..."
"Nope, he was indoctrinated by the Reapers."
"I'll believe everything you say, Reaper king."

That line is so vague. Shepard could just be referring to the fact that TIM said that the Crucible can control the Reapers....he doesn't have to be referring to his methods or ideals of dominance.

I don't know what you think what I'm saying but I'm saying that being indoctrinated by the Reapers and believing what the Reaper king tells you aren't so different.
You say TIM couldn't have taken control because he was indoctrinated, how do you know that for certain? Right, the Reaper king tells you. There's either something terribly wrong going on here or the writing is just horrendously bad.

Even in the codex it says "the victim is highly susceptible to it's suggestions."

Modifié par balance5050, 01 juin 2012 - 06:15 .

[Taboo]

MegaSovereign wrote...

If he was lying he wouldn't point you to where you go to destroy the reapers =/.

If you guys are gonna headcanon, then so am I. The Crucible, once attached to the Citadel, makes the Catalyst tell the truth.

I WIN.

He is more than capable of lying, just like Legion was.

He also isn't in a position to fight Shepard. He will point out everything.

[MegaSovereign]

Indoctrination theory.

LOL. The headcanon is strong in this one.

[balance5050]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

He wasn't going to do it..He was indoctrinated and could not take control.

This is getting repetitive...

Yeah. Great argument.
"So, TIM was right after all..."
"Nope, he was indoctrinated by the Reapers."
"I'll believe everything you say, Reaper king."

That line is so vague. Shepard could just be referring to the fact that TIM said that the Crucible can control the Reapers....he doesn't have to be referring to his methods or ideals of dominance.

I don't know what you think what I'm saying but I'm saying that being indoctrinated by the Reapers and believing what the Reaper king tells you aren't so different.
You say TIM couldn't have taken control because he was indoctrinated, how do you know that for certain? Right, the Reaper king tells you. There's either something terribly wrong going on here or the writing is just horrendously bad.

If he was lying he wouldn't point you to where you go to destroy the reapers =/.

If you guys are gonna headcanon, then so am I. The Crucible, once attached to the Citadel, makes the Catalyst tell the truth.

I WIN.

You mean we all win. <_<

[MegaSovereign]

Taboo-XX wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

If he was lying he wouldn't point you to where you go to destroy the reapers =/.

If you guys are gonna headcanon, then so am I. The Crucible, once attached to the Citadel, makes the Catalyst tell the truth.

I WIN.

He is more than capable of lying, just like Legion was.

He also isn't in a position to fight Shepard. He will point out everything.

Yea well maybe he saw what happened to Legion after he lied and decided not to **** with Shepard.

[balance5050]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Indoctrination theory.

LOL. The headcanon is strong in this one.

Purely using in game evicence to come up with a literary hypothosis. 

[balance5050]

Taboo-XX wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

If he was lying he wouldn't point you to where you go to destroy the reapers =/.

If you guys are gonna headcanon, then so am I. The Crucible, once attached to the Citadel, makes the Catalyst tell the truth.

I WIN.

He is more than capable of lying, just like Legion was.

He also isn't in a position to fight Shepard. He will point out everything.

Don't forget that EDI explains that she can also lie..... what's up with all the AI's letting you know they can lie? couldn't possibly be foreshadowing.....

[MegaSovereign]

balance5050 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Indoctrination theory.

LOL. The headcanon is strong in this one.

Purely using in game evicence to come up with a literary hypothosis. 

Not gonna go there.

Just prepare to be disappointed when the EC comes around if you still believe in IT.

[Taboo]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

If he was lying he wouldn't point you to where you go to destroy the reapers =/.

If you guys are gonna headcanon, then so am I. The Crucible, once attached to the Citadel, makes the Catalyst tell the truth.

I WIN.

He is more than capable of lying, just like Legion was.

He also isn't in a position to fight Shepard. He will point out everything.

Yea well maybe he saw what happened to Legion after he lied and decided not to **** with Shepard.

It's all just:

[balance5050]

MegaSovereign wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Indoctrination theory.

LOL. The headcanon is strong in this one.

Purely using in game evicence to come up with a literary hypothosis. 

Not gonna go there.

Just prepare to be disappointed when the EC comes around if you still believe in IT.

Indeed, hope for the best prepare for the worst I always say...

I'll still be happy even if they don't expand on it and just leave as a possibilty by not debunking it. It just makes all three games enjoyable for me again and it actually rounds out the trilogy quite well IMO.

Modifié par balance5050, 01 juin 2012 - 06:26 .

[M Hedonist]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Indoctrination theory.

LOL. The headcanon is strong in this one.

Not necessarily IT. Any theory that either says that the Catalyst is lying to you or that the end sequence isn't really happening.

[Taboo]

Indoctrination is not a theory.

It IS however the best fan interpretation I've ever seen. Bioware should be proud that they have such loyal fans.

[MegaSovereign]

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Indoctrination theory.

LOL. The headcanon is strong in this one.

Not necessarily IT. Any theory that either says that the Catalyst is lying to you or that the end sequence isn't really happening.

Woah man that's deep. It's all a ****ing dream.

[M Hedonist]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Indoctrination theory.

LOL. The headcanon is strong in this one.

Not necessarily IT. Any theory that either says that the Catalyst is lying to you or that the end sequence isn't really happening.

Woah man that's deep. It's all a ****ing dream.

Did you read that one part of my sentence about the Catalyst lying to you?

[balance5050]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Indoctrination theory.

LOL. The headcanon is strong in this one.

Not necessarily IT. Any theory that either says that the Catalyst is lying to you or that the end sequence isn't really happening.

Woah man that's deep. It's all a ****ing dream.

More like an esoteric battle for your conciousness.... your actions in this dream state will affect the galaxy's outcome.

[ghost9191]

Taboo-XX wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

If he was lying he wouldn't point you to where you go to destroy the reapers =/.

If you guys are gonna headcanon, then so am I. The Crucible, once attached to the Citadel, makes the Catalyst tell the truth.

I WIN.

He is more than capable of lying, just like Legion was.

He also isn't in a position to fight Shepard. He will point out everything.

Yea well maybe he saw what happened to Legion after he lied and decided not to **** with Shepard.

It's all just:

http://img844.images...eculations.jpg

question, legion lied to you? i know he wasnt exactly truthful when it came to some things but didint know he downright lied. just wondering if i missed something

unless you mean stuff like heretics and whatnot then ok, just not sure if you mean you find out in game

like i mean evidence from all 3 games shows the geth are one way but then you get legion who tells you that they are actually nice and only do this stuff to save themselves, i mean if they are willing to go ovver to the reapers to save themselves and they believe them to be gods whats stopping them from doing it a third time. off topic sorry but was jsut wondeing

Modifié par ghost9191, 01 juin 2012 - 06:41 .

[The Angry One]

Jamie9 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

It's still a stupid line.
I mean, they could say anything else, like for example "So controlling the Reapers is possible?".
Why bring TIM into it at all? If this was their attempt to make a moral grey area antagonist out of TIM, they failed miserably.

I don't know how they managed it either because ME2 did a good job of TIM and Cerberus I thought.

Yeah me too. I mean, I always thought TIM was a bastard in ME2, but he was "our" bastard, a ruthless jerk who genuinely wanted to promote humanity's interests.
But no let's just indoctrinate him and make him evil.

[balance5050]

The Angry One wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

It's still a stupid line.
I mean, they could say anything else, like for example "So controlling the Reapers is possible?".
Why bring TIM into it at all? If this was their attempt to make a moral grey area antagonist out of TIM, they failed miserably.

I don't know how they managed it either because ME2 did a good job of TIM and Cerberus I thought.

Yeah me too. I mean, I always thought TIM was a bastard in ME2, but he was "our" bastard, a ruthless jerk who genuinely wanted to promote humanity's interests.
But no let's just indoctrinate him and make him evil.

It was bound to happen, a mere human playing with things he doesn't fully understand.