4520 réponses à ce sujet

[Elite Midget]

Seival wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Seival wrote...

If I'll have a time, I really should make some additional banners. And not just for the Control. I think the entire ending should be supported, no matter I'm the fan of Control choice...
...I just need to be careful about what to write on these new banners

"Control>Destroy"

For us, Paragons - yes. But not for Renegades. Renegades will be pleased to sacrifice someone else to achieve their goals and even survive as a human being in the end.

Speak for yourself. I'm a Paragon and would never pick Control or Synthesis.

[KingZayd]

Elite Midget wrote...

Seival wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Seival wrote...

If I'll have a time, I really should make some additional banners. And not just for the Control. I think the entire ending should be supported, no matter I'm the fan of Control choice...
...I just need to be careful about what to write on these new banners

"Control>Destroy"

For us, Paragons - yes. But not for Renegades. Renegades will be pleased to sacrifice someone else to achieve their goals and even survive as a human being in the end.

Speak for yourself. I'm a Paragon and would never pick Control or Synthesis.

same.

[CroGamer002]

^You would really just let geth and EDI die, just for a selfish idea to destroy Reapers at all costs?

[Seival]

Elite Midget wrote...

Seival wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Seival wrote...

If I'll have a time, I really should make some additional banners. And not just for the Control. I think the entire ending should be supported, no matter I'm the fan of Control choice...
...I just need to be careful about what to write on these new banners

"Control>Destroy"

For us, Paragons - yes. But not for Renegades. Renegades will be pleased to sacrifice someone else to achieve their goals and even survive as a human being in the end.

Speak for yourself. I'm a Paragon and would never pick Control or Synthesis.

...I speak for Paragon's Main Concept - achieving the goals using peaceful methods.

If you couldn't choose Control in the end, then you just prefered to betray Paragon ideals... And then tried to convince yourself that it was a "pure paragon choice"... Which is the pure Renegade way of thinking actually.

[incinerator950]

I'm a Renegon and I chose Control.

[Seival]

incinerator950 wrote...

I'm a Renegon and I chose Control.

...Well, my favorite Paragon Shepard is actually also not just a Paragon. She is 100% Paragon and about 20% Renegade in the end of each part of the Trilogy. I don't restrict myself by linear way of thinking. I just choose options that I feel were right... And each time I got 100% Paragon 20% Renegade in the end...

...I tried some other Shepards, but I was not like them. So they were deleted.

[incinerator950]

And?

[LiarasShield]

My main issue with this is that no one has ever been able to control the reapers before all the beings who have tried both saren and thee illusive man were corrupted and twisted into thinking they had control over the reapers when they didn't why would shepard all of sudden be able to control the reapers if it was never possible before and it was pretty much shown that it couldn't really be done

And how can shepard control the reapers if he or she is dead or vaporized if he or she became the new catalyst then star child should've been replaced by shepard don'tcha think their is just too much to question on this option hence why I could never pick it

Modifié par LiarasShield, 07 juin 2012 - 09:06 .

[Seival]

incinerator950 wrote...

And?

Just out loud thoughts...

[incinerator950]

Seival wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

And?

Just out loud thoughts...

Well in that case, I like anal.  

Out loud thoughts

[LiarasShield]

If control against the reapers was never possible before how did that automaticlly change and how once again can shepard control them when his or her body was vaporized right infront of our faces?

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

...I speak for Paragon's Main Concept - achieving the goals using peaceful methods.

That's a potential facet of the Paragon.

Paragons differ from Renegades by having some sort of consistent moral code. 

If you couldn't choose Control in the end, then you just prefered to betray Paragon ideals... And then tried to convince yourself that it was a "pure paragon choice"... Which is the pure Renegade way of thinking actually.

Choosing to kill the Reapers once and for all to spare the rest of the galaxy whilst taking the guilt that comes from betraying your friends is hardly purely Renegade.

You're asigning your view as fact. 

Do not. 

[LiarasShield]

LiarasShield wrote...

My main issue with this is that no one has ever been able to control the reapers before all the beings who have tried both saren and thee illusive man were corrupted and twisted into thinking they had control over the reapers when they didn't why would shepard all of sudden be able to control the reapers if it was never possible before and it was pretty much shown that it couldn't really be done

And how can shepard control the reapers if he or she is dead or vaporized if he or she became the new catalyst then star child should've been replaced by shepard don'tcha think their is just too much to question on this option hence why I could never pick it

If you can truely answer these questions then I shall take your word as gospel

[incinerator950]

[Seival]

LiarasShield wrote...

My main issue with this is that no one has ever been able to control the reapers before all the beings who have tried both saren and thee illusive man were corrupted and twisted into thinking they had control over the reapers when they didn't why would shepard all of sudden be able to control the reapers if it was never possible before and it was pretty much shown that it couldn't really be done

And how can shepard control the reapers if he or she is dead or vaporized if he or she became the new catalyst then star child should've been replaced by shepard don'tcha think their is just too much to question on this option hence why I could never pick it

Reading more and more posts like this really make me believe that BioWare writers are not just good... They are best of the best

I'm sorry... That was not an offense... The endings confused you. You never expected what was coming. You were shocked or even got very angry. You maybe even wanted to take a cold shower or two... And then just set there gazing the emptiness... I had the similar feelings... And then I started to understand, and it was AWESOME

Modifié par Seival, 07 juin 2012 - 09:27 .

[incinerator950]

No, when I read the leaked script I thought it was pretty dull. Maybe parts stupid too.

[Jamie9]

LiarasShield wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

My main issue with this is that no one has ever been able to control the reapers before all the beings who have tried both saren and thee illusive man were corrupted and twisted into thinking they had control over the reapers when they didn't why would shepard all of sudden be able to control the reapers if it was never possible before and it was pretty much shown that it couldn't really be done

And how can shepard control the reapers if he or she is dead or vaporized if he or she became the new catalyst then star child should've been replaced by shepard don'tcha think their is just too much to question on this option hence why I could never pick it

If you can truely answer these questions then I shall take your word as gospel

Don't take my words as gospel! Make up your own mind!

Anyway, Saren and TIM both had very tainted intentions, even before indoctrination.

Shepard can control them because of the Crucible. It allows him to take the Catalyst's role. Exactly how it works, we don't know. All we know is that it does work, as the Reapers leave.

The Catalyst heavily implies that Shepard will lose his physical form, but his mind will stay.

"But the Reapers will obey me?" "Yes."

Since you have to take the ending at face value (else you wouldn't pick anything - or IT-ers would pick destroy), then Control is a completely viable option, and seemingly the best choice for a "paragon". All views are my own. You are all free to choose any of the three, however. That's why there are three options.

[Seival]

incinerator950 wrote...

...If you know what I mean

[LiarasShield]

Jamie9 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

My main issue with this is that no one has ever been able to control the reapers before all the beings who have tried both saren and thee illusive man were corrupted and twisted into thinking they had control over the reapers when they didn't why would shepard all of sudden be able to control the reapers if it was never possible before and it was pretty much shown that it couldn't really be done

And how can shepard control the reapers if he or she is dead or vaporized if he or she became the new catalyst then star child should've been replaced by shepard don'tcha think their is just too much to question on this option hence why I could never pick it

If you can truely answer these questions then I shall take your word as gospel

Don't take my words as gospel! Make up your own mind!

Anyway, Saren and TIM both had very tainted intentions, even before indoctrination.

Shepard can control them because of the Crucible. It allows him to take the Catalyst's role. Exactly how it works, we don't know. All we know is that it does work, as the Reapers leave.

The Catalyst heavily implies that Shepard will lose his physical form, but his mind will stay.

"But the Reapers will obey me?" "Yes."

Since you have to take the ending at face value (else you wouldn't pick anything - or IT-ers would pick destroy), then Control is a completely viable option, and seemingly the best choice for a "paragon". All views are my own. You are all free to choose any of the three, however. That's why there are three options.

I dont know if i can truely accept that shepard can control the reapers which has never been done before when his or her body is destroyed and without a body how could the mind possibly survive shepard isn't a computer he or she is living flesh without blood cells and blood to go to the mind how can he or she truely make active function decisions to control the reapers that still doesn't make much sense?

Modifié par LiarasShield, 07 juin 2012 - 09:46 .

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

LiarasShield wrote...
I dont know if i can truely accept that shepard can control the reapers which has never been done before when his or her body is destroyed and without a body how could the mind possibly survive shepard isn't a computer he or she is living flesh without blood cells and blood to go to the mind how can he or she truely make active function decisions to control the reapers that still doesn't make much sense?

Why do you think Shepard holds on to those handlers?

To upload his mind and become the next catalyst.

Seival wrote...
Reading more and more posts like this really make me believe that BioWare writers are not just good... They are best of the best

No offence but I can respect you liking the concepts behind the endings, but don't please pretend that the writing is any good and that it is simply too clever for most people.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 07 juin 2012 - 09:50 .

[LiarasShield]

Lizardviking wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...
I dont know if i can truely accept that shepard can control the reapers which has never been done before when his or her body is destroyed and without a body how could the mind possibly survive shepard isn't a computer he or she is living flesh without blood cells and blood to go to the mind how can he or she truely make active function decisions to control the reapers that still doesn't make much sense?

Why do you think Shepard holds on to those handlers?

To upload his mind and become the next catalyst.

Seival wrote...
Reading more and more posts like this really make me believe that BioWare writers are not just good... They are best of the best

No offence but I can respect you liking the concepts behind the endings, but don't pretend that the writing is any good and that it is simply to clever for most people.

Ok so basicly what you're telling me right that he or she was uploading his or her brain length patterns to the crucible or harnessing his or her dna into the crucible its self cause if so it really didn't look that way it looked like complete obliteration not uploading dna or whatever else and who says the illusive man really had evil intentions it is how you look at it

The illusive man did what he personally believe in order to try to save humanity or advance humanity wether from bringing shepard back to life because he or she represents the hope of humanity do I think  the indoctrination ended up making him evil yes but he did the same option or tried to do the same option before shepard even got a chance to

[Ageless Face]

LiarasShield wrote...

My main issue with this is that no one has ever been able to control the reapers before all the beings who have tried both saren and thee illusive man were corrupted and twisted into thinking they had control over the reapers when they didn't why would shepard all of sudden be able to control the reapers if it was never possible before and it was pretty much shown that it couldn't really be done

And how can shepard control the reapers if he or she is dead or vaporized if he or she became the new catalyst then star child should've been replaced by shepard don'tcha think their is just too much to question on this option hence why I could never pick it

1. The crucible created the new possibilities of control and synthesis. And TIM was not indoc into believeing he can control the reapers. He studied the reapers, which made him want to control them. As I said many times, TIM was power hungry. He was not indoctrinated into thinking that. And TIM will not cotnrol in the same way as Shepard, nor for the same reasons. As for Saren... Again, Saren wanted synthesis from different reasons than Shepard (or at least most). Saren wanted the reapers to rule the organics. Synthesis will upgrade both the synthetics and organics. No one will rule over each other, they will be equal as all organics equal to each other, and all synthetics equal to each other.

2. There is an assumption that Shepard will become the catalyst. By the leaked script, and from one file's name, Shepard WILL become the new catalyst. True, it was cut, and there is probobly a reason for this. But it's probobly what happened to Shepard. If my assumpotion is correct and the catalyst does not think about organics' death as we do, and only a "body death" but not the mind, then Shepard "dying" in control and the "you will die. you will control us, but you will loose everything" can make more sense.

There are a lot of questions about control. But until the EC, all we can do is headconnon. I just hope there will be answeres to our questions. becuase we all can sure use them.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

LiarasShield wrote...
Ok so basicly what you're telling me right that he or she was uploading his or her brain length patterns to the crucible or harnessing his or her dna into the crucible its self cause if so it really didn't look that way it looked like complete obliteration not uploading dna or whatever else and who says the illusive man really had evil intentions it is how you look at it

I base my judgement on the leaked script where it states that in control Shepard will become the next catalyst (also note that the original catalyst vanishes in control like he does in destroy). I agree that the method of becoming the next Catalyst is rather unorthodox, but so is the way you destroy the Reapers.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 07 juin 2012 - 09:57 .

[Jamie9]

LiarasShield wrote...

Ok so basicly what you're telling me right that he or she was uploading his or her brain length patterns to the crucible or harnessing his or her dna into the crucible its self cause if so it really didn't look that way it looked like complete obliteration not uploading dna or whatever else and who says the illusive man really had evil intentions it is how you look at it

The illusive man did what he personally believe in order to try to save humanity or advance humanity wether from bringing shepard back to life because he or she represents the hope of humanity do I think  the indoctrination ended up making him evil yes but he did the same option or tried to do the same option before shepard even got a chance to

Well, for a start, TIM would have used the Reapers to subdue all of the alien races, putting humanity at the top. As a caring person, not a very desirable outcome.

To control the Reapers, he must sacrifice his/her body. Since I like science in my sci-fi, I like to think that the body is providing the energy to activate the Control option. It consumes the energy and uses it to transfer Shep's consciousness to the Catalyst's position.

[Redbelle]

My take on Control is that TIM being indoctrinated, shared the mindset of the Cat and Reapers. Adding TIM to the borg collect....... I mean the Reaper mindset would have added nothing except more of what the Reapers already had.

It's at this point that Shep steps up, unindoctrinated. (Sry IT fans but this thread of logic won't work if he is, unless he's fought it off). And imposes his values and principles over the Reapers. Think of what Shepard did as changing Indoctrination into something new called Sheptrination.

This argument hinges on the Reapers being indoctrinated as well. Indoc, as I understand it, can be cast on a person, and that person can go forth and indoc others. Thinking of all the times I was told, 'it is not a thing you can comprehend' got me thinking that maybe the reason I can;t understand is that I don't share the Reaper state of mind, with good reason. I don't want to share the Reaper state of mind because it's bad. But if I were indoctrinated I might understand and be comfortable with what they are out to achieve.

Now imagine that instead of Indoc you are infected with........ Shepdoc? We'll go with Shepdoc. Shepdoc basically makes you uncomfortable with harvesting and averse to carrying out that function. If the Reapers Indoc was supplanted with Shepdoc then they would lose the will to harvest.

Basically they are not following Shepard, who is conciously giving instructions to the Reapers. He's dead. Burnt up and fried like tasty chicken left in the oven to long. What ocured had more in common with what Legion did to the Geth. Shep disseminated his self into the Reaper's who now share Sheps views and opinions as well as his belief that ascending species is wrong.

It's at this point that I'd like to have seen Renegade Reapers or Paragon Reapers but oh well. Can't have everything.