4520 réponses à ce sujet

[LiarasShield]

HagarIshay wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

My main issue with this is that no one has ever been able to control the reapers before all the beings who have tried both saren and thee illusive man were corrupted and twisted into thinking they had control over the reapers when they didn't why would shepard all of sudden be able to control the reapers if it was never possible before and it was pretty much shown that it couldn't really be done

And how can shepard control the reapers if he or she is dead or vaporized if he or she became the new catalyst then star child should've been replaced by shepard don'tcha think their is just too much to question on this option hence why I could never pick it

1. The crucible created the new possibilities of control and synthesis. And TIM was not indoc into believeing he can control the reapers. He studied the reapers, which made him want to control them. As I said many times, TIM was power hungry. He was not indoctrinated into thinking that. And TIM will not cotnrol in the same way as Shepard, nor for the same reasons. As for Saren... Again, Saren wanted synthesis from different reasons than Shepard (or at least most). Saren wanted the reapers to rule the organics. Synthesis will upgrade both the synthetics and organics. No one will rule over each other, they will be equal as all organics equal to each other, and all synthetics equal to each other.

2. There is an assumption that Shepard will become the catalyst. By the leaked script, and from one file's name, Shepard WILL become the new catalyst. True, it was cut, and there is probobly a reason for this. But it's probobly what happened to Shepard. If my assumpotion is correct and the catalyst does not think about organics' death as we do, and only a "body death" but not the mind, then Shepard "dying" in control and the "you will die. you will control us, but you will loose everything" can make more sense.

There are a lot of questions about control. But until the EC, all we can do is headconnon. I just hope there will be answeres to our questions. becuase we all can sure use them.

I do agree that we really do need answers but I just can't see control as a variable option even though saren was trying to use the reapers to merge oraganic life with synthetic he still believed he was in control which he was not just like how thee illusive man wanted to use the reaper tech  or the reapers themselves to benefit humanity and believed he was in control but different scenario but he still wasn't in control and this choice seems like it only destroys shepard instead of him or her becoming the new catalyst or the new reapers controller or whatever


Or maybe is for the peer fact that I can't take things of faith or assumptions alone

[LiarasShield]

Jamie9 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

Ok so basicly what you're telling me right that he or she was uploading his or her brain length patterns to the crucible or harnessing his or her dna into the crucible its self cause if so it really didn't look that way it looked like complete obliteration not uploading dna or whatever else and who says the illusive man really had evil intentions it is how you look at it

The illusive man did what he personally believe in order to try to save humanity or advance humanity wether from bringing shepard back to life because he or she represents the hope of humanity do I think  the indoctrination ended up making him evil yes but he did the same option or tried to do the same option before shepard even got a chance to

Well, for a start, TIM would have used the Reapers to subdue all of the alien races, putting humanity at the top. As a caring person, not a very desirable outcome.

To control the Reapers, he must sacrifice his/her body. Since I like science in my sci-fi, I like to think that the body is providing the energy to activate the Control option. It consumes the energy and uses it to transfer Shep's consciousness to the Catalyst's position.

This once again brings to the mnid why did we not see shepard reappear as the new catalyst instead of seeing him or her just destroyed and the reapers supposedly flying off because a blue color energy beam hits them and it looks like no one is controling them..... X_x?

[Ageless Face]

Jamie9 wrote...


Well, for a start, TIM would have used the Reapers to subdue all of the alien races, putting humanity at the top. As a caring person, not a very desirable outcome.

To control the Reapers, he must sacrifice his/her body. Since I like science in my sci-fi, I like to think that the body is providing the energy to activate the Control option. It consumes the energy and uses it to transfer Shep's consciousness to the Catalyst's position.

I never even thought about why Shepard's body burned in control. Guessed that I just assumed that it's a nececery transformation.

Anyway, you have a good speculation on this...  

[LiarasShield]

We don't see shepard reappear as the new catalyst only seeing his or her body vaporized if he or she is the new catalyst why do we not see him or her controling the reapers to make them flee earth and the galaxy and head back to darkspace


we just see a blue beam that I guess makes them flee their is just too much assumption at least for me to really go yay or nay for this

and it is why I can't make this choice or most of thee other ones

[KingZayd]

Redbelle wrote...

My take on Control is that TIM being indoctrinated, shared the mindset of the Cat and Reapers. Adding TIM to the borg collect....... I mean the Reaper mindset would have added nothing except more of what the Reapers already had.

It's at this point that Shep steps up, unindoctrinated. (Sry IT fans but this thread of logic won't work if he is, unless he's fought it off). And imposes his values and principles over the Reapers. Think of what Shepard did as changing Indoctrination into something new called Sheptrination.

This argument hinges on the Reapers being indoctrinated as well. Indoc, as I understand it, can be cast on a person, and that person can go forth and indoc others. Thinking of all the times I was told, 'it is not a thing you can comprehend' got me thinking that maybe the reason I can;t understand is that I don't share the Reaper state of mind, with good reason. I don't want to share the Reaper state of mind because it's bad. But if I were indoctrinated I might understand and be comfortable with what they are out to achieve.

Now imagine that instead of Indoc you are infected with........ Shepdoc? We'll go with Shepdoc. Shepdoc basically makes you uncomfortable with harvesting and averse to carrying out that function. If the Reapers Indoc was supplanted with Shepdoc then they would lose the will to harvest.

Basically they are not following Shepard, who is conciously giving instructions to the Reapers. He's dead. Burnt up and fried like tasty chicken left in the oven to long. What ocured had more in common with what Legion did to the Geth. Shep disseminated his self into the Reaper's who now share Sheps views and opinions as well as his belief that ascending species is wrong.

It's at this point that I'd like to have seen Renegade Reapers or Paragon Reapers but oh well. Can't have everything.

I've actually suspected that the Reapers are indoctrinated themselves (meaning TIM's not actually wrong about it being possible), and that's how they are unknowingly slaves to some unknown force. That said, I also believe that Shepard is in fact being indoctrinated too.

Modifié par KingZayd, 07 juin 2012 - 10:14 .

[Jamie9]

HagarIshay wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...


Well, for a start, TIM would have used the Reapers to subdue all of the alien races, putting humanity at the top. As a caring person, not a very desirable outcome.

To control the Reapers, he must sacrifice his/her body. Since I like science in my sci-fi, I like to think that the body is providing the energy to activate the Control option. It consumes the energy and uses it to transfer Shep's consciousness to the Catalyst's position.

I never even thought about why Shepard's body burned in control. Guessed that I just assumed that it's a nececery transformation.

Anyway, you have a good speculation on this...  

After you've spent a certain amount of time on BSN, you come to realise that you must inspect everything in order to be sure.

But I read all the secondary codexes on species' biologies. It's always interested me how fiction uses science and also throws in some techno-babble for good measure. Since holding the rod activates electricity (a form of energy), I kind of just connected the two.

Holding the rods = electricity. Holding the rods = energy.

[LiarasShield]

their is too much assumption without actually prove that either shepard really does become the new catalyst or is simply evaporated or destroyed with supposedly a blue beam controling them I guess but if shepard is the new catalyst shepard should've replaced the catalyst the moment he disappeared but in that ending that does not happen or at least it isn't shown anyway

[Jamie9]

LiarasShield wrote...

their is too much assumption without actually prove that either shepard really does become the new catalyst or is simply evaporated or destroyed with supposedly a blue beam controling them I guess but if shepard is the new catalyst shepard should've replaced the catalyst the moment he disappeared but in that ending that does not happen or at least it isn't shown anyway

All of the endings have this problem. Control needs to show more. Destroy needs to show more. Synthesis needs to show more.

We have to work with what material we've been given. But the Citadel isn't destroyed and the Relays are less destroyed than the other two options. That's good, right?

[Ageless Face]

LiarasShield wrote...


I do agree that we really do need answers but I just can't see control as a variable option even though saren was trying to use the reapers to merge oraganic life with synthetic he still believed he was in control which he was not just like how thee illusive man wanted to use the reaper tech  or the reapers themselves to benefit humanity and believed he was in control but different scenario but he still wasn't in control and this choice seems like it only destroys shepard instead of him or her becoming the new catalyst or the new reapers controller or whatever


Or maybe is for the peer fact that I can't take things of faith or assumptions alone

Saren, like I said, is a different case. He only wanted organics to be upgraded, thus inslavement to the reapers. Synthesis is not the same thing as Saren wanted as people would like to believe. And TIM, again, wanted to control the reapers before he was indoctrinated. The reapers attcking sanctuary is an evidence that the reapers did not want TIM to even think about control. At the end TIM caved into the reapers, and gave them info. But I don't believe Shepard is indocrtrinated. Shepard will do what s/he thinks is right. No influence from anything or anyone. Whether it's human dominance to some Sheps, or reapers as protectors to other Shepards, or even continuing the cycles if you think the catalyst is right.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Too bad The Illusive Man had to die, he was always one of my favorite characters. Wish I could have joined up with Cerberus instead of the Alliance. I even spared the Collector station.

Modifié par Flying Spaghetti Monster, 07 juin 2012 - 11:24 .

[Lord Goose]

The reapers attcking sanctuary is an
evidence that the reapers did not want TIM to even think about control.

I think they were rather afraid that somebody else could use the data. Henry Lawson, perhaps.
Also, we can clearly see, that they cannot directly control Cerberus troops, even though they're using Reaper technology far and wide.

[LiarasShield]

HagarIshay wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...


I do agree that we really do need answers but I just can't see control as a variable option even though saren was trying to use the reapers to merge oraganic life with synthetic he still believed he was in control which he was not just like how thee illusive man wanted to use the reaper tech  or the reapers themselves to benefit humanity and believed he was in control but different scenario but he still wasn't in control and this choice seems like it only destroys shepard instead of him or her becoming the new catalyst or the new reapers controller or whatever


Or maybe is for the peer fact that I can't take things of faith or assumptions alone

Saren, like I said, is a different case. He only wanted organics to be upgraded, thus inslavement to the reapers. Synthesis is not the same thing as Saren wanted as people would like to believe. And TIM, again, wanted to control the reapers before he was indoctrinated. The reapers attcking sanctuary is an evidence that the reapers did not want TIM to even think about control. At the end TIM caved into the reapers, and gave them info. But I don't believe Shepard is indocrtrinated. Shepard will do what s/he thinks is right. No influence from anything or anyone. Whether it's human dominance to some Sheps, or reapers as protectors to other Shepards, or even continuing the cycles if you think the catalyst is right.

Saren  still believed he was incontrol of himself despite the reapers possessing him I think you missed what I ment in that post

[MegaSovereign]

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote...

Too bad The Illusive Man had to die, he was always one of my favorite characters. Wish I could have joined up with Cerberus instead of the Alliance.

He's one of the best characters in the series. He represents humanities best and worst qualities. I absolutely adored him as a character.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 07 juin 2012 - 10:28 .

[LiarasShield]

I even said that the scenarios were different but both of them still believed that they were in control of themselves when they clearly were not I have my own issues and why synthesis and destroy do not work for me either but the control one is the one this conversation is about their is way to much assumption or faith on that shepard has either become the new catalyst or one with the citadel or crucible when it isn't shown and all we see is the blue energy beam and shepard disintagrate

[Seival]

HagarIshay wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...


Well, for a start, TIM would have used the Reapers to subdue all of the alien races, putting humanity at the top. As a caring person, not a very desirable outcome.

To control the Reapers, he must sacrifice his/her body. Since I like science in my sci-fi, I like to think that the body is providing the energy to activate the Control option. It consumes the energy and uses it to transfer Shep's consciousness to the Catalyst's position.

I never even thought about why Shepard's body burned in control. Guessed that I just assumed that it's a nececery transformation.

Anyway, you have a good speculation on this...  

I think it's very simple actually:
(1) Human body and mind can be ready for the transformation into the Catalist, if a person is really strong-willed.  
(2) Human body and mind itself has not enough processing power to take Control of the Reapers.
(3) Shepard has to lose everything as a human being, to become the force that can Control the Reapers.
(4) That doesn't mean that Shepard looses her personality in the process. The proof of that presents in the ending itself.

Modifié par Seival, 07 juin 2012 - 10:43 .

[Jamie9]

Seival wrote...

I think it's very simple actually:
(1) Human body and mind can be ready for the transformation into the Catalist, if the person is really strong-willed.  
(2) Human body and mind itself has not enough processing power to take Control of the Reapers.
(3) Shepard has to loose everything as a human being, to become the force that can Control the Reapers.
(4) That doesn't mean that Shepard looses her personality in the process. The proof of that presents in the ending itself.

That works too, as a symbolic interpretation.

I was trying to infer the scene literally. Just using basic knowledge of how energy is transferred.

[Ageless Face]

LiarasShield wrote...

I even said that the scenarios were different but both of them still believed that they were in control of themselves when they clearly were not I have my own issues and why synthesis and destroy do not work for me either but the control one is the one this conversation is about their is way to much assumption or faith on that shepard has either become the new catalyst or one with the citadel or crucible when it isn't shown and all we see is the blue energy beam and shepard disintagrate

The case is, that (most) people who choose control, believe the catalyst told the truth about it. We are going by what the catalyst told us. Most of us assuming Shepard will become the new catalyst. It does not mean we put our entire faith it is right. We are putting our faith into what the catalyst told us. And the catalyst told us Shepard can control the reapers even when s/he's dead. Our assumptions are that it's not a complete death. Put most of us don't fool ourselves- death will take part, even if it's not death as organics see it.

We are placing our entire faith that the catalyst is telling the truth about the crucible. Yet that can also be said about people who choose synthesis or destroy, even if they still think the catalyst is lying. Synthesis putting their faith on the catalyst's word that synthesis will actually do what it's suppose to, and synthesis will not make what Saren wanted. Destroyers are putting their faith that shooting the tube will do any good, and will actually destroy the reapers as the catalyst say, and won't simply destroy all the fleest' mechinary.

All of us are putting faith. Control simply has many, many unanswered questions. So our faith is looked as misguidance.

[LiarasShield]

well I can't do this on faith alone lol

[Jamie9]

LiarasShield wrote...

well I can't do this on faith alone lol

All 3 choices are based on faith alone. What makes you think shooting that pipe will destroy all the Reapers? Could that possibly be the Catalyst?

[LiarasShield]

Jamie9 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

well I can't do this on faith alone lol

All 3 choices are based on faith alone. What makes you think shooting that pipe will destroy all the Reapers? Could that possibly be the Catalyst?

That is I'm not for either of the three choices I have a specific thread against all of them in my signature

[Jamie9]

LiarasShield wrote...

That is I'm not for either of the three choices I have a specific thread against all of them in my signature

I dislike the entire Priority: Earth mission. But since I only have these three options, I choose control.

[LiarasShield]

Jamie9 wrote...

LiarasShield wrote...

That is I'm not for either of the three choices I have a specific thread against all of them in my signature

I dislike the entire Priority: Earth mission. But since I only have these three options, I choose control.

Well The first time I chose destroy even though I didn't want to but all options pretty much seem evil or twisted in one way or another hence why I don't play singleplayer anymore and only mp now

[KingZayd]

Jamie9 wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...


Well, for a start, TIM would have used the Reapers to subdue all of the alien races, putting humanity at the top. As a caring person, not a very desirable outcome.

To control the Reapers, he must sacrifice his/her body. Since I like science in my sci-fi, I like to think that the body is providing the energy to activate the Control option. It consumes the energy and uses it to transfer Shep's consciousness to the Catalyst's position.

I never even thought about why Shepard's body burned in control. Guessed that I just assumed that it's a nececery transformation.

Anyway, you have a good speculation on this...  

After you've spent a certain amount of time on BSN, you come to realise that you must inspect everything in order to be sure.

But I read all the secondary codexes on species' biologies. It's always interested me how fiction uses science and also throws in some techno-babble for good measure. Since holding the rod activates electricity (a form of energy), I kind of just connected the two.

Holding the rods = electricity. Holding the rods = energy.

Why would Shepard's energy be needed when the crucible has loads of eezo, helium-3, (potentially a reaper heart) and a bunch of other power sources?

[Ageless Face]

LOL am I the only one that thought the choices were actually a good thing about the ending? I mean, if synthesis and control will get more explanation, and destroy will get more closure with Shepard, not a so open breath scene, and then the choices will actually be great. At least I think so...

There is not a good way to end a war. And Shepard needs to make the final choice to end it. The reapers cannot be defeted and then have a happy ending.

We needed a conclution that will get the galaxy into it's new shape more than what we got. Summerize all the game into three choices was a bad call. But I believe the choices still needed to take place. If not, then ending the war will only be in lethal force. And the reapers cannot be defeted in this way.



And maybe I also like the final choices because I like the concept bittersweet endings. And all the choices had it in some sort of way.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 07 juin 2012 - 11:25 .

[Jamie9]

HagarIshay wrote...

LOL am I the only one that thought the choices were actually a good thing about the ending? I mean, if synthesis and control will get more explanation, and destroy will get more closure with Shepard, not a so open breath scene, and then the choices will actually be great. At least I think so...

There is not a good way to end a war. And Shepard needs to make the final choice to end it. The reapers cannot be defeted and then have a happy ending.

We needed a conclution that will get the galaxy into it's new shape more than what we got. Summerize all the game into three choices was a bad call. But I believe the choices still needed to take place. If not, then ending the war will only be in lethal force. And the reapers cannot be defeted in this way.

And maybe I also like the final choices because I like the concept bittersweet endings. And all the choices had it in some sort of way.

No you're not. I admire the concept, but it was just so terribly executed. In fact, I have a much bigger gripe with Priority: Earth not showing your War Assets than anything else.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO SPEND AN ENTIRE TRILOGY COLLECTING FORCES, SHOW THEM!!

Rage over. Anyway, I also like bittersweet, or even just dark endings. Always have, always will. Heavy Rain had some beautifully dark endings (I make the Heavy Rain comparison because it's a video game. I do read books and watch films lol).