4520 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

mango smoothie wrote...

Reign Tsumiraki wrote...

Even if in Control you can only give one order, it's still miles better then Destroy.

My one order is: Turn off your shields, and fly directly into the nearest star.

I will not commit genocide on an entire species just so Shepard can live.

That's two orders.

Moreover, Control means "monitoring the situation and giving orders when needed". One or two final orders is not actually a Control. And this is one of the evidences that Shepard becomes the new Catalist in Control ending.

Modifié par Seival, 10 juin 2012 - 08:35 .

[Seival]

Sauruz wrote...

I will die a happy man if I get to see Seival's "Leaking Catalyst theory" thread.

I think this thread is suited enough for discussing the Catalist's tricks regarding control. No need to create new thread for that.

[KingZayd]

Seival wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Seival wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Seival wrote...


Well, the trap was much greater in our case (Terminator 4 was just an example). Catalist "leaked" some clues on how hasks can be manipulated, so TIM could easily find these clues. These clues were to convince TIM that not just hasks could be controled, but even Reaper capital ships.

Catalist knew that only Cerberus leaders will see the potential in this. Noone, but Cerberus will truely want to control the Reapers. So they will start to experiment on their own people in order to get some results. They will get an army of faithfull soldiers that will be used in a ways Catalist want them to be used: against the nations to be harvested. But TIM will be fully convinced that he uses the army to take a control over the Reapers, and the rest of the galactic civilization are just staying on his way.

...A clever way to manipulate the enemy. Cerberus gains no real control and has no chance to harm the Reapers in any way. All Catalist need to do is to wait for some time and then destroy the Cerberus research, so enemy will not have any chance to use it to slow down Reapers ground forces... Enemy weakened greatly without any noticeable casualties on the Reapers side.

That is a very intresting theory. But still there is one question: Why attack sanctuary? It was said that the reapers only found out about the place, if I remember right. Why attack the place, and not just take all the harvested with them slowly and nicely? Sanctuary was destroyed by the reapers. Why do that, unless they felt threatend? They could have just taken all the data with them and fly away. Nobody would ever know what happened on sanctuary. But that wasn't the case.

The place was destroyed, and there were still the harvested in sanctuary. That probably means the reapers could not have taken control over them.  

I think the point of attacking the Sanctuary is to destroy a research that can be used as an advantage against Reaper ground forces. Cerberus did its part... Cerberus now must be obliterated. And the most part of obliteration will be performed by galactic civilization's forces, so they will have additional casualties.

Why not keep Cerberus like they kept the Collectors?

Collectors were just mindless hasks. Why not keep hasks? No group that wanted to control the Reapers survived in the end of each Cycle. No matter if they were just killed, or killed and then converted into hasks.

The Collectors are derived from the indoctrinated Protheans. Cerberus are indoctrinated Humans. Should work the same?

[Seival]

KingZayd wrote...

Seival wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Seival wrote...

HagarIshay wrote...

Seival wrote...


Well, the trap was much greater in our case (Terminator 4 was just an example). Catalist "leaked" some clues on how hasks can be manipulated, so TIM could easily find these clues. These clues were to convince TIM that not just hasks could be controled, but even Reaper capital ships.

Catalist knew that only Cerberus leaders will see the potential in this. Noone, but Cerberus will truely want to control the Reapers. So they will start to experiment on their own people in order to get some results. They will get an army of faithfull soldiers that will be used in a ways Catalist want them to be used: against the nations to be harvested. But TIM will be fully convinced that he uses the army to take a control over the Reapers, and the rest of the galactic civilization are just staying on his way.

...A clever way to manipulate the enemy. Cerberus gains no real control and has no chance to harm the Reapers in any way. All Catalist need to do is to wait for some time and then destroy the Cerberus research, so enemy will not have any chance to use it to slow down Reapers ground forces... Enemy weakened greatly without any noticeable casualties on the Reapers side.

That is a very intresting theory. But still there is one question: Why attack sanctuary? It was said that the reapers only found out about the place, if I remember right. Why attack the place, and not just take all the harvested with them slowly and nicely? Sanctuary was destroyed by the reapers. Why do that, unless they felt threatend? They could have just taken all the data with them and fly away. Nobody would ever know what happened on sanctuary. But that wasn't the case.

The place was destroyed, and there were still the harvested in sanctuary. That probably means the reapers could not have taken control over them.  

I think the point of attacking the Sanctuary is to destroy a research that can be used as an advantage against Reaper ground forces. Cerberus did its part... Cerberus now must be obliterated. And the most part of obliteration will be performed by galactic civilization's forces, so they will have additional casualties.

Why not keep Cerberus like they kept the Collectors?

Collectors were just mindless hasks. Why not keep hasks? No group that wanted to control the Reapers survived in the end of each Cycle. No matter if they were just killed, or killed and then converted into hasks.

The Collectors are derived from the indoctrinated Protheans. Cerberus are indoctrinated Humans. Should work the same?

Why not? Or why not just erase the Cerberus in the end? I don't think the Catalist really cares how exactly enemies will fall in each particular case. It will have enough hasks in the end anyway.

[Ageless Face]

Seival wrote...

(1) I think the point was to destroy the reserch, not Sanctuary itself. I doubt the Catalist wanted the facility as a resource. It has millions of Reaper capital ships that can produce hasks much faster.

(2) United Fleet forces will notice the problem and try to investigate. And they will have to fight left Reaper ground forces. Which may cause additional casualties. Catalist just "loudly" disabled the Sanctualy and left a trap there.

(3) They were close to killing the Lawson themselves. Catalist maybe thought that noone will want to investigate the Sanctually so soon, or... Lawson was killed anyway. So the Catalist's plan worked anyway.

(4) I think that clues of what happened were not important. The point was to prevent United Fleet forces to use the research to slow down the Reaper ground forces. United Fleet forces will just have no time to reconstruct the research, or more likely will not want to after they will see what happened in the Sanctuary.

1. Yet they DID destroy Sanctuary. They wouldn't need it as a resource, but they will gain nothing by destroy it. They could have simply take all the cerberus agents, and tell them to bring everything with them, and they would all fly away. Destroying Sanctuary will have only drawed unwanted attention.

2. If they took all the research, why there will be a need to kill anyone? People will come, see nothing, and will just go away. Even if they would have discovered what happened, there was nothing to do about it. There was not really a reason to keep the harvested there. The reapers would have been better off with the harvested with them than in Sanctuary.

3. Yet they didn't kill him. There were many harvested in the way, MANY harvested outside Lawson's door. No one killed him, or tried. They protected him, more like. And they had no reason to protect him if the reapers controlled them. Besides, the reapers didn't know Shepard will come. And I'm pretty sure there is a way for Lawson not to be killed. So the reapers will not get to kill him, and he can leak the story about Sanctuary long befroe the reapers will find him.It would be too dengerous for the catalyst to just leave everything for Shepard. 

4. But the clues to what happened ARE important. It's enough to find one of the terminals, and discover what happened on the base. And if someone that is as power hungry as TIM, he'll want to do the exact same thing. He will try to control. Sure, the odds that he will sucseed are very low, but what if the idea will go to someone who CAN do it? Let's say, it will slip out to a salarian scintist. They will surely be able to do a lot. There is a very big chance for the salarians to control. Or even another powerfull human. Some harvested here and there would not really stop anyone. Bringing some spectres, or maybe even stronger soldiers, and they will take of the job quickly enough. If they truly wanted to keep the base from anyone, they would have at least kept a baby reaper there. They didn't.

If the reapers would not want people to know about the idea of control other than the indoc people, they would have cleaned the place. They didn't. Which means, that there are also more information about the research itself. 

[Seival]

HagarIshay wrote...

Seival wrote...

(1) I think the point was to destroy the reserch, not Sanctuary itself. I doubt the Catalist wanted the facility as a resource. It has millions of Reaper capital ships that can produce hasks much faster.

(2) United Fleet forces will notice the problem and try to investigate. And they will have to fight left Reaper ground forces. Which may cause additional casualties. Catalist just "loudly" disabled the Sanctualy and left a trap there.

(3) They were close to killing the Lawson themselves. Catalist maybe thought that noone will want to investigate the Sanctually so soon, or... Lawson was killed anyway. So the Catalist's plan worked anyway.

(4) I think that clues of what happened were not important. The point was to prevent United Fleet forces to use the research to slow down the Reaper ground forces. United Fleet forces will just have no time to reconstruct the research, or more likely will not want to after they will see what happened in the Sanctuary.

1. Yet they DID destroy Sanctuary. They wouldn't need it as a resource, but they will gain nothing by destroy it. They could have simply take all the cerberus agents, and tell them to bring everything with them, and they would all fly away. Destroying Sanctuary will have only drawed unwanted attention.

2. If they took all the research, why there will be a need to kill anyone? People will come, see nothing, and will just go away. Even if they would have discovered what happened, there was nothing to do about it. There was not really a reason to keep the harvested there. The reapers would have been better off with the harvested with them than in Sanctuary.

3. Yet they didn't kill him. There were many harvested in the way, MANY harvested outside Lawson's door. No one killed him, or tried. They protected him, more like. And they had no reason to protect him if the reapers controlled them. Besides, the reapers didn't know Shepard will come. And I'm pretty sure there is a way for Lawson not to be killed. So the reapers will not get to kill him, and he can leak the story about Sanctuary long befroe the reapers will find him.It would be too dengerous for the catalyst to just leave everything for Shepard. 

4. But the clues to what happened ARE important. It's enough to find one of the terminals, and discover what happened on the base. And if someone that is as power hungry as TIM, he'll want to do the exact same thing. He will try to control. Sure, the odds that he will sucseed are very low, but what if the idea will go to someone who CAN do it? Let's say, it will slip out to a salarian scintist. They will surely be able to do a lot. There is a very big chance for the salarians to control. Or even another powerfull human. Some harvested here and there would not really stop anyone. Bringing some spectres, or maybe even stronger soldiers, and they will take of the job quickly enough. If they truly wanted to keep the base from anyone, they would have at least kept a baby reaper there. They didn't.

If the reapers would not want people to know about the idea of control other than the indoc people, they would have cleaned the place. They didn't. Which means, that there are also more information about the research itself. 

(1) I think taking all Sanctuary agents would be more complicated than destroying them. The plan could be like this: "If they will show no real resistance - take them, but if they will be hard to take - kill them". And I think that drawing attention could be a part of the plan.

(2) I don't think Cerberus will let the Reapers to take the research willingly. Drawing attention and letting the harvested inside could have three main reasons. First - the ones, who will come to investigate will fall into the trap, and may have some casualties. Second - investigators will not be able, and more importantly will not want to reconstruct the research after what they will see inside. Third - United Fleet forces will want to destroy the Cerberus more then ever, so the Catalist will speed up the process of them fighting each other.

(3) I think they were just about to kill him. And the Catalist's plan worked anyway. There was no chance for the Miranda's father to survive in the end. And the United Fleet didn't actually get any chance to use Cerberus research against the Reaper ground forces.

(4) I think that the point was to show the "false-control possibility" to both groups. One will try to use it, and the second one will start to hate the first one. So they will start to fight each other. Catalist doesn't really need to give the research to the second group, it just needs to show the consequences of the research to the second group. So the second group will start to hate the first one even more, and will not even want to use the research against the Reaper ground forces.

[Seival]

And more importantly, I think that lesser races themselves have absolutely no chances to develop something that will be able to control the Reapers. You have to be as advanced as the Reapers to do so.

[Coachdongwiffle]

the idea of Reapers even existing bugs me. plus if you let the Reapers live someone could always build another crucible while you fix the Citadel then boom they take over in your place and now they have the ultimate power....safer to just destroy them.

[Lord Goose]

could always build another crucible while you fix the Citadel then boom they take over in your place and now they have the ultimate power....safer to just destroy them.

First of all, "just" building the Crucible required joint effort of almost majority of sentient species of the galaxy. So, its not that easy. Probably, even the Illusive Man didn't have enough resources to build it all by himself.

Secondly, Citadel is closed, and it maybe impossible to open it again.

Thirdly, it is unknown would the second Crucible be able to do anything. Catalyst was changed by Crucible, so its hard to say how second Crucible will affect Shepard.

Also, considering that if you destroy them, there would be huge amounts of Reaper tech laying everywhere in the galaxy, it is possible that someone will build Reapers themselves, which is also not very good.

I think taking all Sanctuary agents would be more complicated than destroying them. The plan could be like this: "If they will show no real resistance - take them, but if they will be hard to take - kill them". And I think that drawing attention could be a part of the plan.

In that case, plan failed. I mean, no one even knew about attack before they landed on the planet and saw it firsthand.

[Seival]

Lord Goose wrote...

I think taking all Sanctuary agents would be more complicated than destroying them. The plan could be like this: "If they will show no real resistance - take them, but if they will be hard to take - kill them". And I think that drawing attention could be a part of the plan.

In that case, plan failed. I mean, no one even knew about attack before they landed on the planet and saw it firsthand.

If the plan was to destroy the research and fan the flames of "civil war", then the plan was actually successful.

[Ageless Face]

Seival wrote...


(1) I think taking all Sanctuary agents would be more complicated than destroying them. The plan could be like this: "If they will show no real resistance - take them, but if they will be hard to take - kill them". And I think that drawing attention could be a part of the plan.

(2) I don't think Cerberus will let the Reapers to take the research willingly. Drawing attention and letting the harvested inside could have three main reasons. First - the ones, who will come to investigate will fall into the trap, and may have some casualties. Second - investigators will not be able, and more importantly will not want to reconstruct the research after what they will see inside. Third - United Fleet forces will want to destroy the Cerberus more then ever, so the Catalist will speed up the process of them fighting each other.

(3) I think they were just about to kill him. And the Catalist's plan worked anyway. There was no chance for the Miranda's father to survive in the end. And the United Fleet didn't actually get any chance to use Cerberus research against the Reaper ground forces.

(4) I think that the point was to show the "false-control possibility" to both groups. One will try to use it, and the second one will start to hate the first one. So they will start to fight each other. Catalist doesn't really need to give the research to the second group, it just needs to show the consequences of the research to the second group. So the second group will start to hate the first one even more, and will not even want to use the research against the Reaper ground forces.

1. I didn't understand this point. Why would the reapers want to draw attention? What good will that do? It will only get people to dig what happened on Sanctuary. Like I said before, it's a bad thing for the reapers, if they don't want anyone to find out aside 

2. Like I've pointed out, the harvested will not stop anyone. Delay, perhaps. But eventually someone, even if not Shepard would have came and kill them all. The research would have been discovered, as the plans and the people in it. And I don't really think the reapers care about Cerberus, even if the people in Cerberus are indoctrinated.

3. Yet, like I said, Lawson can walk out alive. The reapers would have been very stupid to just completley rely on Shepard to do everything. If they did, the harvested could have simply not attack Shepard, but they do. The harvested didn't even try to get in. The door was RIGHT THERE. But the harvested couldn't just let one raveger or even a cannible to take care of Lawson? They had all the time in the world to do it. They protected Lawson. They didn't try to kill him, as they should have if they would actually want the research to remain a secret.

4. I'm sorry, but I don't really understand what you are trying to say. Can you elaborate on this point?

[Ageless Face]

Lord Goose wrote...

could always build another crucible while you fix the Citadel then boom they take over in your place and now they have the ultimate power....safer to just destroy them.

First of all, "just" building the Crucible required joint effort of almost majority of sentient species of the galaxy. So, its not that easy. Probably, even the Illusive Man didn't have enough resources to build it all by himself.

Secondly, Citadel is closed, and it maybe impossible to open it again.

Thirdly, it is unknown would the second Crucible be able to do anything. Catalyst was changed by Crucible, so its hard to say how second Crucible will affect Shepard.

Also, considering that if you destroy them, there would be huge amounts of Reaper tech laying everywhere in the galaxy, it is possible that someone will build Reapers themselves, which is also not very good.

And also don't forget that the catalyst lifted Shepard up in the elevator. Who's to say Shepard will do the same for the next person who wants to control the reapers or something? The crucible is nice and all, but useless if no one will lift the person who wants to use it.

[Seival]

HagarIshay wrote...

Seival wrote...


(1) I think taking all Sanctuary agents would be more complicated than destroying them. The plan could be like this: "If they will show no real resistance - take them, but if they will be hard to take - kill them". And I think that drawing attention could be a part of the plan.

(2) I don't think Cerberus will let the Reapers to take the research willingly. Drawing attention and letting the harvested inside could have three main reasons. First - the ones, who will come to investigate will fall into the trap, and may have some casualties. Second - investigators will not be able, and more importantly will not want to reconstruct the research after what they will see inside. Third - United Fleet forces will want to destroy the Cerberus more then ever, so the Catalist will speed up the process of them fighting each other.

(3) I think they were just about to kill him. And the Catalist's plan worked anyway. There was no chance for the Miranda's father to survive in the end. And the United Fleet didn't actually get any chance to use Cerberus research against the Reaper ground forces.

(4) I think that the point was to show the "false-control possibility" to both groups. One will try to use it, and the second one will start to hate the first one. So they will start to fight each other. Catalist doesn't really need to give the research to the second group, it just needs to show the consequences of the research to the second group. So the second group will start to hate the first one even more, and will not even want to use the research against the Reaper ground forces.

1. I didn't understand this point. Why would the reapers want to draw attention? What good will that do? It will only get people to dig what happened on Sanctuary. Like I said before, it's a bad thing for the reapers, if they don't want anyone to find out aside 

2. Like I've pointed out, the harvested will not stop anyone. Delay, perhaps. But eventually someone, even if not Shepard would have came and kill them all. The research would have been discovered, as the plans and the people in it. And I don't really think the reapers care about Cerberus, even if the people in Cerberus are indoctrinated.

3. Yet, like I said, Lawson can walk out alive. The reapers would have been very stupid to just completley rely on Shepard to do everything. If they did, the harvested could have simply not attack Shepard, but they do. The harvested didn't even try to get in. The door was RIGHT THERE. But the harvested couldn't just let one raveger or even a cannible to take care of Lawson? They had all the time in the world to do it. They protected Lawson. They didn't try to kill him, as they should have if they would actually want the research to remain a secret.

4. I'm sorry, but I don't really understand what you are trying to say. Can you elaborate on this point?

(1) Catalist destroys the TIM research on one hand, and show the research consequences to the TIM's opposition on the other hand. Which adds even more hate between the Cerberus and the United Fleet forces. A clever manipulative trick.

(2) I think that (1) can be used to answer this one.

(3) Well, I really doubt that Lawson could have any chance to get out of there alive. I'm sure the Reapers were after him, but Shepard and Miranda just did their job. It doesnt really matter for the Catalist if the Reapers kill the Lawson themselves, or let the investigators to do so... Or let the investigators to join TIM's course... A multi-layered, clever trap.

(4) I meant that it's clever to fan the civil war by forcing people to have different points of view, and giving them more and more reasons to hate each other. Especially when the war is about something that will never really help any of the two sides.

Modifié par Seival, 11 juin 2012 - 01:03 .

[Ageless Face]

Seival wrote...


(1) Catalist destroys the TIM research on one hand, and show the research consequences to the TIM's opposition on the other hand. Which adds even more hate between the Cerberus and the United Fleet forces. A clever manipulative trick.

(2) I think that (1) can be used to answer this one.

(3) Well, I really doubt that Lawson could have any chance to get out of there alive. I'm sure the Reapers were after him, but Shepard and Miranda just did their job. It doesnt really matter for the Catalist if the Reapers kill the Lawson themselves, or let the investigators to do so... Or let the investigators to join TIM's course... A multi-layered, clever trap.

(4) I meant that it's clever to fan the civil war by forcing people to have different points of view, and giving them more and more reasons to hate each other. Especially when the war is about something that will never really help any of the two sides.

1. Okay, I see what you mean here. Still, it seems like too much trouble. Hate was there even without Sanctuary. They fought each other regardless. Giving one more point as to why hate Cerberus will not change much. Besides, the reapers attacked the Cerbeus agents. Why do it, if they wanted for Cerberus and the other organics to fight each other?Or rather, why attack them at all?

3. There is a chance for Lawson to go out alive. If Miranda is not alive and you didn't shoot him with a renegade interrupt, I believe. And like I said, the harvested had all the time in the world to kill Lawson. They didn't do it. Shepard arrived much afterwards. Why only wait for him/her when the harvested were right there? It doesn't make a lot of sense.

4. See point 1.

[Seival]

HagarIshay wrote...

Seival wrote...


(1) Catalist destroys the TIM research on one hand, and show the research consequences to the TIM's opposition on the other hand. Which adds even more hate between the Cerberus and the United Fleet forces. A clever manipulative trick.

(2) I think that (1) can be used to answer this one.

(3) Well, I really doubt that Lawson could have any chance to get out of there alive. I'm sure the Reapers were after him, but Shepard and Miranda just did their job. It doesnt really matter for the Catalist if the Reapers kill the Lawson themselves, or let the investigators to do so... Or let the investigators to join TIM's course... A multi-layered, clever trap.

(4) I meant that it's clever to fan the civil war by forcing people to have different points of view, and giving them more and more reasons to hate each other. Especially when the war is about something that will never really help any of the two sides.

1. Okay, I see what you mean here. Still, it seems like too much trouble. Hate was there even without Sanctuary. They fought each other regardless. Giving one more point as to why hate Cerberus will not change much. Besides, the reapers attacked the Cerbeus agents. Why do it, if they wanted for Cerberus and the other organics to fight each other?Or rather, why attack them at all?

3. There is a chance for Lawson to go out alive. If Miranda is not alive and you didn't shoot him with a renegade interrupt, I believe. And like I said, the harvested had all the time in the world to kill Lawson. They didn't do it. Shepard arrived much afterwards. Why only wait for him/her when the harvested were right there? It doesn't make a lot of sense.

4. See point 1.

(1) Yes, the Catalist could just leak Sanctuary's info to the United Fleet and then just observe how investigators will do the rest of the job. But maybe Catalist wanted United Fleet forces to believe that Cerberus actually had a chance to control the Reapers? Wanted them to believe that "Reapers got scared". To force two groups to fight eachother even harder.

(3) Even escaped Lawson will need a lot of time to reconstruct the research. And most likely noone will want to help him to do it. The Lawson was doomed anyway, I believe.

[Seival]

Coachdongwiffle wrote...

the idea of Reapers even existing bugs me. plus if you let the Reapers live someone could always build another crucible while you fix the Citadel then boom they take over in your place and now they have the ultimate power....safer to just destroy them.

The Catalist helped Shepard willingly. That was the point. Shepard's victory was about forcing the Catalist to understand its mistakes. And that doesn't mean that Catalist-Shepard will allow someone to steal Control from her.

Modifié par Seival, 11 juin 2012 - 03:31 .

[Ageless Face]

Seival wrote...

(1) Yes, the Catalist could just leak Sanctuary's info to the United Fleet and then just observe how investigators will do the rest of the job. But maybe Catalist wanted United Fleet forces to believe that Cerberus actually had a chance to control the Reapers? Wanted them to believe that "Reapers got scared". To force two groups to fight eachother even harder.

(3) Even escaped Lawson will need a lot of time to reconstruct the research. And most likely noone will want to help him to do it. The Lawson was doomed anyway, I believe.

1. But if the reapers truly wanted the investigators to do all the job, why let the harvested attack them? Why even let the investigators to do all the job? It doesn't make sense. The reapers can take over things very well on their own. 

3. It doesn't matter. Lawson is still out there, can leak everything about the research to someone. No matter what, leaving Lawson alive, or even count on someone else to do the job for them is just a stupid move from the reapers' side. They won't take any risks.

And I still don't understand: Why didn't the harvested kill Lawson when they had the chance? 

[Seival]

HagarIshay wrote...

Seival wrote...

(1) Yes, the Catalist could just leak Sanctuary's info to the United Fleet and then just observe how investigators will do the rest of the job. But maybe Catalist wanted United Fleet forces to believe that Cerberus actually had a chance to control the Reapers? Wanted them to believe that "Reapers got scared". To force two groups to fight eachother even harder.

(3) Even escaped Lawson will need a lot of time to reconstruct the research. And most likely noone will want to help him to do it. The Lawson was doomed anyway, I believe.

1. But if the reapers truly wanted the investigators to do all the job, why let the harvested attack them? Why even let the investigators to do all the job? It doesn't make sense. The reapers can take over things very well on their own. 

3. It doesn't matter. Lawson is still out there, can leak everything about the research to someone. No matter what, leaving Lawson alive, or even count on someone else to do the job for them is just a stupid move from the reapers' side. They won't take any risks.

4. And I still don't understand: Why didn't the harvested kill Lawson when they had the chance? 

(1) As I said: maybe Catalist wanted United Fleet forces to believe that Cerberus actually had a chance to control the Reapers? Wanted them to believe that "Reapers got scared". To force two groups to fight each other even harder.

(3) I think it's not a risk for them at all. With Lawson still alive some other groups like Cerberus may appear. Groups which will start to fight each other and United Fleet eventually. So the Catalist won anyway.

(4) Well, I believe that they were just about to kill him. But Shepard interrupted that.

[Ageless Face]

Seival wrote...


(1) As I said: maybe Catalist wanted United Fleet forces to believe that Cerberus actually had a chance to control the Reapers? Wanted them to believe that "Reapers got scared". To force two groups to fight each other even harder.

(3) I think it's not a risk for them at all. With Lawson still alive some other groups like Cerberus may appear. Groups which will start to fight each other and United Fleet eventually. So the Catalist won anyway.

(4) Well, I believe that they were just about to kill him. But Shepard interrupted that.

1. But doing something like that is still a huge risk for the reapers just to make two groups fight each other. If it was not Shepard who entered Sanctuary, but someone else? Someone who was powerfull enough to kill all the harvested, and then watch the logs, see what Cerberus did and will actually want to try that himself? We know it's possible to control the reapers. What if the crucible is not the only way? What if another person will come and try to control the reapers, and will actualy have a chance to suceed? The reapers cannot let the risk be. It's too dangerous to them. 

3. Cerberus could still oporate even if people will attack them. Even if not, Lawson can still leak it to someone else. The salarians would have surely tried of they would have given the option. Another powerfull human. Not killing Lawson is a HUGE risk for the reapers. And like I said, counting that someone else will kill Lawson was a huge and stupid risk from the reapers. They have NO reason to do that.

4. But we saw them just standing there. When Shepard enters, one little cannibal could have just go and chase after Lawson. No one did. And the reapers arrived long before Shepard. They had all the time in the world to enter. They didn't, they just... waited. Again, why would they do that, unless they wanted to protect Lawson, because he controlled them?

Modifié par HagarIshay, 11 juin 2012 - 04:42 .

[Seival]

HagarIshay wrote...

Seival wrote...


(1) As I said: maybe Catalist wanted United Fleet forces to believe that Cerberus actually had a chance to control the Reapers? Wanted them to believe that "Reapers got scared". To force two groups to fight each other even harder.

(3) I think it's not a risk for them at all. With Lawson still alive some other groups like Cerberus may appear. Groups which will start to fight each other and United Fleet eventually. So the Catalist won anyway.

(4) Well, I believe that they were just about to kill him. But Shepard interrupted that.

1. But doing something like that is still a huge risk for the reapers just to make two groups fight each other. If it was not Shepard who entered Sanctuary, but someone else? Someone who was powerfull enough to kill all the harvested, and then watch the logs, see what Cerberus did and will actually want to try that himself? We know it's possible to control the reapers. What if the crucible is not the only way? What if another person will come and try to control the reapers, and will actualy have a chance to suceed? The reapers cannot let the risk be. It's too dangerous to them. 

3. Cerberus could still oporate even if people will attack them. Even if not, Lawson can still leak it to someone else. The salarians would have surely tried of they would have given the option. Another powerfull human. Not killing Lawson is a HUGE risk for the reapers. And like I said, counting that someone else will kill Lawson was a huge and stupid risk from the reapers. They have NO reason to do that.

4. But we saw them just standing there. When Shepard enters, one little cannibal could have just go and chase after Lawson. No one did. And the reapers arrived long before Shepard. They had all the time in the world to enter. They didn't, they just... waited. Again, why would they do that, unless they wanted to protect Lawson, because he controlled them?

(1) I think that you have to be as technologically advanced, as the Reapers to develop and produce something to Control them only by yourself. That's why the Catalist never afraid to be Controlled by the lesser races. If there were some "easy" ways to Control the Reapers using the leaked Research, then the Cycles would have been broken long ago... Well, and in case if someone powerful will find the Research we will have 3 groups fighting each other instead of fighting the Reapers.

(3) I think that in this case we will have the 3 groups fighting each other instead of fighting the Reapers. And the 3rd group might be even more dangerous to the United Fleet forces than a Cerberus, because noone will know about this 3rd group.

(4) Well, the entire facility was crawling with all kinds of hasks. And they were not friendly to Cerberus. They obliterated all Cerberus troops. And I'm sure it was just a matter of time when they finally get to the Lawson.

[kathic]

Renegade Shep chooses control and takes over the galaxy for humanity.

[Seival]

kathic wrote...

Renegade Shep chooses control and takes over the galaxy for humanity.

Very doubtful.

[clarkusdarkus]

Funnily enough my first choice was control. I'm egotistical like that and a narssacist.

[PillarBiter]

The only good ending to the story as it is now to me is (which I believe to be the canon ending, for me):

for some reason I dont know I am stronger at mind control then the illusive man, and kill him for a reason which I disagree with, only to agree with the reason after a four-year-old explains it to me, and pretty much become the biggest hypocrite in the galaxy.

It's sad that the other ways to end the game make even less sense...

[Seival]

clarkusdarkus wrote...

Funnily enough my first choice was control. I'm egotistical like that and a narssacist.

Control choice is not egotistical or narcissist. Destroy is...

Modifié par Seival, 11 juin 2012 - 09:19 .