4520 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

HagarIshay wrote...

Seival wrote...


(1) Build, yes. But not develop I believe. I rely on the assumption, that if each cycle before had the same groups as Cerberus, and all of these groups have failed, then there was never any risk for the Catalist and the Reapers.

(3) Yes. I meant that the only thing that can be produced from the "leaked" info is a tech which can only secretly corrupt.

(4) Well, I believe it was Cerberus attempt to evacuate actually. As far as I remember, Reapers wasn't leaving when Shepard arrived.

(5) I've understood what are you talking about, sorry  ...You meant that "indoctrinated" = "partially harvested", and "harvested" = "mindless hasks". And I meant "fully indoctrinated" = "harvested", and "partially indoctrinated" = "not completely harvested". Well, I think your variant is more correct... So, I meant that some of those harvested inside the Sanctuary could be from the Sanctuary's defence force, the ones who were not killed completely.

Thanks

1. Well, in Javik's cycle there was someone that was indoc that wanted to control the reapers. So you are right about that.

4. Yes, the reapers left exactly when Shepard arrived. That is why we fight only Cerberus agents and not the harvested. The reapers wouldn't control the harevested if the harvested weren't in control before.

5. The bolded part- I'm sorry but I don't understand.

(4) Did they? Maybe I just don't remember all details correctly, but I think that the mission's beginning showed the end of Cerberus evacuation attempt (which have failed). I think that (5) way answer the question (see below).

(5) I meant that some of hasks inside the "secret complex" could be made by the Reapers, who attacked the Sanctuary. Made from the Cerberus solders who tried to resist, but weren't killed. So the initial plan could be like this: Reaper ground forces attack the Sanctuary from outside, and regain control over the "not-true-hasks" inside the facility... Now Reaper ground forces have units both outside and inside the Sanctuary, so Cerberus have no ways to escape or defend.

[Seival]

mass perfection wrote...

You should start a Control ending support group.

First I need to know what is support group, and how to create it

[Ageless Face]

DJBare wrote...

Of course the races benefited from the mass relays, that's exactly what the reapers wanted, if there is a difficult and an easy path to a goal humans will choose the easy path, but you do not learn and gain experience by taking the easy path, most of our technology is based in mass relay technology, reaper technology, in comparison to reapers we are children and they handed us a loaded gun.

I didn't create the phone. Does it mean that I should not use it until I will learn how to create it? 

Why does it matter WHO created the technology? The technology is there, and people should use it. Even if the technology is destroyed in destroy and synthesis, does it mean that the races will not try again to rebuild it? Of course they will! It's either they will find every scrap of metal to come to the same place as they were, or that the whole galaxy will go crazy, it will take centuries to bring people out of the state they will be, a stone age.

Besides, the Mass relays and the Citadel has become a part of the galactic culture. Humans only 30 years or so a part of the galactic society, and already they had a deep connection to both the mass relays and the Citadel. You may think it will be good for them. But it's not. You will take a part of their society, a part of their culuture, the home of some (the Citadel, that is).

The reaper technology is important. No matter if it was not created by orgaics, they still used it, and used it succefully. I don't see how it is different than bringing an asari's technology, or turian's, or salarians. The reaper's tech will do nothing. The reapers themelves will. And since the reapers will be controlled by Shepard...  

[Ageless Face]

Seival wrote...


(4) Did they? Maybe I just don't remember all details correctly, but I think that the mission's beginning showed the end of Cerberus evacuation attempt (which have failed). I think that (5) way answer the question (see below).

(5) I meant that some of hasks inside the "secret complex" could be made by the Reapers, who attacked the Sanctuary. Made from the Cerberus solders who tried to resist, but weren't killed. So the initial plan could be like this: Reaper ground forces attack the Sanctuary from outside, and regain control over the "not-true-hasks" inside the facility... Now Reaper ground forces have units both outside and inside the Sanctuary, so Cerberus have no ways to escape or defend.

4. Well, yes, they did. Like I said, that is why we only fought Cerberus and not the harvested. 

5. So where are the harvested that Cerberus made? How will they be created without spikes (Reapers use spikes to create their harvested)? Why are there banshess, brutes, cannibals, ravegers, if they were all made by the Cerberus agents?

[CroGamer002]

Seival wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

You should start a Control ending support group.

First I need to know what is support group, and how to create it

On the top of the BSN screen, you'll see Groups tab.

Click it.

When you click it, you'll see recently made groups. There will be a tab to Create New Group.

Click it.

From there I hope you'll manage alone.

[Seival]

HagarIshay wrote...

Seival wrote...


(4) Did they? Maybe I just don't remember all details correctly, but I think that the mission's beginning showed the end of Cerberus evacuation attempt (which have failed). I think that (5) way answer the question (see below).

(5) I meant that some of hasks inside the "secret complex" could be made by the Reapers, who attacked the Sanctuary. Made from the Cerberus solders who tried to resist, but weren't killed. So the initial plan could be like this: Reaper ground forces attack the Sanctuary from outside, and regain control over the "not-true-hasks" inside the facility... Now Reaper ground forces have units both outside and inside the Sanctuary, so Cerberus have no ways to escape or defend.

4. Well, yes, they did. Like I said, that is why we only fought Cerberus and not the harvested. 

5. So where are the harvested that Cerberus made? How will they be created without spikes (Reapers use spikes to create their harvested)? Why are there banshess, brutes, cannibals, ravegers, if they were all made by the Cerberus agents?

I believe, that most harvested inside the Sanctuary labs were made by Cerberus, using the research based on the "leaked info". Sanctuary let all races inside (according to the video footage). Thats why some non-human hasks were inside. Those Cerberus-made harvested were created without spikes, and were a prototypes for the tech that could convert any civilian into a Cerberus faithful soldier. And as I said, the process of the research and experiments also produced a hiden side-effect which corrupted everyone involved in the experiments (even scientists, their team-leads and all other personal). And this desease spreaded through the entire organization. And that was the Catalist's plan.

[mass perfection]

Mesina2 wrote...

Seival wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

You should start a Control ending support group.

First I need to know what is support group, and how to create it

On the top of the BSN screen, you'll see Groups tab.

Click it.

When you click it, you'll see recently made groups. There will be a tab to Create New Group.

Click it.

From there I hope you'll manage alone.

That's how you do it.Let me know when you actually do so I can join.

[HellishFiend]

Seival wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Seival, I have an honest question regarding your forum avatar and how it meshes with your chosen belief regarding the ending. 

If you have truly chosen to embrace the face-value interpretation of control, and all of the implications and consequences that it entails, why then have you chosen to use an avatar of your custom Shepard from her previous existence as an organic? If you are going to go through the trouble to set up a custom avatar, shouldnt you rather choose an avatar that is a representation of your new form of existence? For example, a picture of the Citadel, or a Reaper, or the Catalyst, or this:



If you truly embrace the concept of the face-value Control ending as much as you seem to, then why do you still feel that a picture of organic femshep is an appropriate representation? That is your past existence, which you have rejected. I question your belief if you cannot let go of your past. I question your belief if you feel you are best personified by your organic self. I question the extent to which you truly value your new existence as a disembodied consciousness that controls Reaper forces. So how do you justify it?

Again, this is an honest question, and I hope I dont come across as offensive, but I really am curious about this. If you have already addressed this, please let me know where the information can be found. Thanks in advance. 

Your question is not offensive at all

...My forum avatar is just a picture of my favorite Shepard. No inner meaning... Yes, her skin is very pale so even blue ambient color make her look blue-skinned:

I do not feel that your respose adequately addresses my question or justifies your position. I still feel that your avatar is essentially akin to a Vegan having a picture of a chicken sandwich as an avatar and justifying it because it's their favorite type of sandwich, despite the fact that it goes against the very thing they stand for. 

I dont think you truly grasp the gravity of throwing your full support behind face-value Control the way you have. 

[HellishFiend]

HagarIshay wrote...

I didn't create the phone. Does it mean that I should not use it until I will learn how to create it? 

That is a poor analogy. Phones are not a contentious technology that encourages an unknowingly self-destructive lifestyle. If you must invoke an appropriate analogy, try cigarettes. It's far more appropriate since it "enhances" your lifestyle in the short term, but unknowingly creates a situation that destroys your future. And for this analogy to be accurate, the cigarettes would have to have been developed by an organization that sustains itself on cannibalism. 

[Lord Goose]

If you truly embrace the concept of the face-value
Control ending as much as you seem to, then why do
you still feel that a picture of organic femshep is an
appropriate representation?

Well. Aesthetic value?
I mean, seriously. Avatars are just pretty pictures without any hidden meaning. I for one would be using Reaper or Human Reaper as avatar, just because I like design.

[Seival]

HellishFiend wrote...

Seival wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Seival, I have an honest question regarding your forum avatar and how it meshes with your chosen belief regarding the ending. 

If you have truly chosen to embrace the face-value interpretation of control, and all of the implications and consequences that it entails, why then have you chosen to use an avatar of your custom Shepard from her previous existence as an organic? If you are going to go through the trouble to set up a custom avatar, shouldnt you rather choose an avatar that is a representation of your new form of existence? For example, a picture of the Citadel, or a Reaper, or the Catalyst, or this:



If you truly embrace the concept of the face-value Control ending as much as you seem to, then why do you still feel that a picture of organic femshep is an appropriate representation? That is your past existence, which you have rejected. I question your belief if you cannot let go of your past. I question your belief if you feel you are best personified by your organic self. I question the extent to which you truly value your new existence as a disembodied consciousness that controls Reaper forces. So how do you justify it?

Again, this is an honest question, and I hope I dont come across as offensive, but I really am curious about this. If you have already addressed this, please let me know where the information can be found. Thanks in advance. 

Your question is not offensive at all

...My forum avatar is just a picture of my favorite Shepard. No inner meaning... Yes, her skin is very pale so even blue ambient color make her look blue-skinned:

I do not feel that your respose adequately addresses my question or justifies your position. I still feel that your avatar is essentially akin to a Vegan having a picture of a chicken sandwich as an avatar and justifying it because it's their favorite type of sandwich, despite the fact that it goes against the very thing they stand for. 

I dont think you truly grasp the gravity of throwing your full support behind face-value Control the way you have. 

Well, I really didn't want my avatar to be a "symbolical representation" of the Control choice. But you might just suggested a very good idea, actually

...If the EC will show the Catalist-Shepard's face clearly enough, I might use it to create a new avatar.

[Ageless Face]

Seival wrote...

I believe, that most harvested inside the Sanctuary labs were made by Cerberus, using the research based on the "leaked info". Sanctuary let all races inside (according to the video footage). Thats why some non-human hasks were inside. Those Cerberus-made harvested were created without spikes, and were a prototypes for the tech that could convert any civilian into a Cerberus faithful soldier. And as I said, the process of the research and experiments also produced a hiden side-effect which corrupted everyone involved in the experiments (even scientists, their team-leads and all other personal). And this desease spreaded through the entire organization. And that was the Catalist's plan.

1.Sanctuary let all the races inside, yes. Cerberus made them. The reapers didn't. If they created all the Cerberus agents into harvested, then why are there so few husks? There should be plenty of human husks. Why are there still Cerberus agents at the entrence and they were not change into husks? And again, why not make Lawson harvested?

2. Why do we see dead harvested down the stairs, near the Cerberus soldiers? They clearly fought each other.

3. Why would Cerberus try to escape?

[HellishFiend]

Seival wrote...

Well, I really didn't want my avatar to be a "symbolical representation" of the Control choice. But you might just suggested a very good idea, actually

...If the EC will show the Catalist-Shepard's face clearly enough, I might use it to create a new avatar.

I dont believe that is what is going to happen, but you raise a good point. You dont seem to place a strong personal importance on the value of symbolic display, so you just picked something aesthetically pleasing for your avatar. A high personal valuation of symbolism is also required in order to agree with the Indoctrination Theory, which is my chosen belief. So I suppose your conclusion makes sense, given that you prefer aesthetics over symbolism.

In any case, thank you for the response. 

[HellishFiend]

Lord Goose wrote...

If you truly embrace the concept of the face-value
Control ending as much as you seem to, then why do
you still feel that a picture of organic femshep is an
appropriate representation?

Well. Aesthetic value?
I mean, seriously. Avatars are just pretty pictures without any hidden meaning. I for one would be using Reaper or Human Reaper as avatar, just because I like design.

Lord Goose, please read my response to Seival above, I think it applies quite well as a general response to your concern as well. 

[Ageless Face]

HellishFiend wrote...


That is a poor analogy. Phones are not a contentious technology that encourages an unknowingly self-destructive lifestyle. If you must invoke an appropriate analogy, try cigarettes. It's far more appropriate since it "enhances" your lifestyle in the short term, but unknowingly creates a situation that destroys your future. And for this analogy to be accurate, the cigarettes would have to have been developed by an organization that sustains itself on cannibalism. 

Cigarettes are only destructive. They do no good. Mass relays and the Citadel have done many good to the galaxy. Just because the reapers created them does not mean they aren't helpfull tools. People rely on  the Mass Relays, but they aren't addictive themsleves. People also rely on the internet. Did it do no good?

[HellishFiend]

HagarIshay wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


That is a poor analogy. Phones are not a contentious technology that encourages an unknowingly self-destructive lifestyle. If you must invoke an appropriate analogy, try cigarettes. It's far more appropriate since it "enhances" your lifestyle in the short term, but unknowingly creates a situation that destroys your future. And for this analogy to be accurate, the cigarettes would have to have been developed by an organization that sustains itself on cannibalism. 

Cigarettes are only destructive. They do no good. Mass relays and the Citadel have done many good to the galaxy. Just because the reapers created them does not mean they aren't helpfull tools. People rely on  the Mass Relays, but they aren't addictive themsleves. People also rely on the internet. Did it do no good?

That is not true. Cigarettes provide a narcotic effect that stimulates portions of the brain that cause the sensation of pleasure. That is "good". The means of feeling that "good" is what is destructive. You normally have to work harder to stimulate those portions of the brain in order to feel pleasure. Cigarettes are a short cut towards feeling that pleasure that you inevitably pay the price for in the future, similar to how Reaper Tech of any kind is a short cut to technical achievement that you pay the price for in the future. 

The internet is also a poor analogy to mass relays. I stand by the opinion that cigarettes would be the most appropriate analogy if you were to pick one, due to the above reasons. 

[Ageless Face]

HellishFiend wrote...


That is not true. Cigarettes provide a narcotic effect that stimulates portions of the brain that cause the sensation of pleasure. That is "good". The means of feeling that "good" is what is destructive. You normally have to work harder to stimulate those portions of the brain in order to feel pleasure. Cigarettes are a short cut towards feeling that pleasure that you inevitably pay the price for in the future, similar to how Reaper Tech of any kind is a short cut to technical achievement that you pay the price for in the future. 

The internet is also a poor analogy to mass relays. I stand by the opinion that cigarettes would be the most appropriate analogy if you were to pick one, due to the above reasons. 

You don't see the difference between the reaper tech and the reapers. Reapers are destructive. Reaper tech advances. Look in Mass Effect how much humanity accomplished from the mass relays and the Citadel. True, it was a trap. But if the reapers will be controlled by Shepard, the trap will do nothing. There will only be reaper tech. What is so destructive about that? It will highly advance the organics. I don't see something wrong about that, do you?

However, Cigarettes are ONLY destructive. They make you feel good, but they do nothing but destroy your insides. They don't help you in any way, aside from a minute of plesuare which costs in many other hours of depression. Reaper tech did none of those things. Like I said, it only advanced the races.

Why is internet a poor analogy? In fact, I see it as a very good one. Better than the phone.

[HellishFiend]

HagarIshay wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...


That is not true. Cigarettes provide a narcotic effect that stimulates portions of the brain that cause the sensation of pleasure. That is "good". The means of feeling that "good" is what is destructive. You normally have to work harder to stimulate those portions of the brain in order to feel pleasure. Cigarettes are a short cut towards feeling that pleasure that you inevitably pay the price for in the future, similar to how Reaper Tech of any kind is a short cut to technical achievement that you pay the price for in the future. 

The internet is also a poor analogy to mass relays. I stand by the opinion that cigarettes would be the most appropriate analogy if you were to pick one, due to the above reasons. 

You don't see the difference between the reaper tech and the reapers. Reapers are destructive. Reaper tech advances. Look in Mass Effect how much humanity accomplished from the mass relays and the Citadel. True, it was a trap. But if the reapers will be controlled by Shepard, the trap will do nothing. There will only be reaper tech. What is so destructive about that? It will highly advance the organics. I don't see something wrong about that, do you?

However, Cigarettes are ONLY destructive. They make you feel good, but they do nothing but destroy your insides. They don't help you in any way, aside from a minute of plesuare which costs in many other hours of depression. Reaper tech did none of those things. Like I said, it only advanced the races.

Why is internet a poor analogy? In fact, I see it as a very good one. Better than the phone.

Like I said, I stand by my opinion, you stand by yours. I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with the races of the galaxy continuing to use the Mass Relays, assuming they achieve total victory over the Reapers. Mostly because that allows for the most potential for future content in the ME universe. But the vast majority of Reaper tech is most certainly destructive. In fact, the mass relays may be the only Reaper tech that is not directly or indirectly destructive in some fashion. 

[Seival]

HagarIshay wrote...

Seival wrote...

I believe, that most harvested inside the Sanctuary labs were made by Cerberus, using the research based on the "leaked info". Sanctuary let all races inside (according to the video footage). Thats why some non-human hasks were inside. Those Cerberus-made harvested were created without spikes, and were a prototypes for the tech that could convert any civilian into a Cerberus faithful soldier. And as I said, the process of the research and experiments also produced a hiden side-effect which corrupted everyone involved in the experiments (even scientists, their team-leads and all other personal). And this desease spreaded through the entire organization. And that was the Catalist's plan.

1.Sanctuary let all the races inside, yes. Cerberus made them. The reapers didn't. If they created all the Cerberus agents into harvested, then why are there so few husks? There should be plenty of human husks. Why are there still Cerberus agents at the entrence and they were not change into husks? And again, why not make Lawson harvested?

2. Why do we see dead harvested down the stairs, near the Cerberus soldiers? They clearly fought each other.

3. Why would Cerberus try to escape?

As far as I remember, there were a lot of human-hasks inside. Not less then any other type. I think that some of Cerberus soldiers could be too damaged while trying to resist, so they became non-harvestable and just died. Cerberus could try to escape when they realized that the Reapers managed to take control over the "test-harvested" inside the facility, and thus were surrounded by the overwhelming force. And I believe that the Lawson was doomed to become the harvested or to be killed. It was just a matter of time in that situation.

[Lord Goose]

Lord Goose, please read my response to Seival above, I think it applies quite well as a general response to your concern as well.

Well, symbols do not have any fixed meaning. It depends on viewer. Take my avatar as example. It could represent many contradictory things. For example, it's police car, so it's symbolises law. But it also may symbolize recklessness. because it runs very fast. It could also represent abuse of power...

Control supporters clearly don't have any symbol, which is acceptable for everybody.

I'm also fine with the races of the galaxy continuing to use the Mass Relays, assuming they achieve total victory over the Reapers. Mostly because that allows for the most potential for future content in the ME universe. But the vast majority of Reaper tech is most certainly destructive. In fact, the mass relays may be the only Reaper tech that is not directly or indirectly destructive in some fashion.

Well, in that case, shouldn't you rather oppose all destructive technology in general?
But almost anything could be destructive. Even Mass Relays could be potentially used as powerful weapon.

Modifié par Lord Goose, 13 juin 2012 - 04:29 .

[Seival]

HellishFiend wrote...

Seival wrote...

Well, I really didn't want my avatar to be a "symbolical representation" of the Control choice. But you might just suggested a very good idea, actually

...If the EC will show the Catalist-Shepard's face clearly enough, I might use it to create a new avatar.

I dont believe that is what is going to happen, but you raise a good point. You dont seem to place a strong personal importance on the value of symbolic display, so you just picked something aesthetically pleasing for your avatar. A high personal valuation of symbolism is also required in order to agree with the Indoctrination Theory, which is my chosen belief. So I suppose your conclusion makes sense, given that you prefer aesthetics over symbolism.

In any case, thank you for the response. 

No problem. But I should correct you: I prefer logic and realism over the symbolism... Or even more correctly: I can tolerate the symbolism only to some adequate point... That's why I just can't tolerate "IT". No offense

[HellishFiend]

Seival wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Seival wrote...

Well, I really didn't want my avatar to be a "symbolical representation" of the Control choice. But you might just suggested a very good idea, actually

...If the EC will show the Catalist-Shepard's face clearly enough, I might use it to create a new avatar.

I dont believe that is what is going to happen, but you raise a good point. You dont seem to place a strong personal importance on the value of symbolic display, so you just picked something aesthetically pleasing for your avatar. A high personal valuation of symbolism is also required in order to agree with the Indoctrination Theory, which is my chosen belief. So I suppose your conclusion makes sense, given that you prefer aesthetics over symbolism.

In any case, thank you for the response. 

No problem. But I should correct you: I prefer logic and realism over the symbolism... Or even more correctly: I can tolerate the symbolism only to some adequate point... That's why I just can't tolerate "IT". No offense

None taken. Though in my opinion, logic is heavily employed in the development of IT. Logic is essential to piecing together the individual evidence in a coherent fashion that supports the theory. 

[HellishFiend]

Lord Goose wrote...

Lord Goose, please read my response to Seival above, I think it applies quite well as a general response to your concern as well.

Well, symbols do not have any fixed meaning. It depends on viewer. Take my avatar as example. It could represent many contradicting things. For example, it's police car, so it's symbolises law. But it also may symbolize recklessness. because it runs very fast. It could also represent abuse of power...

Control supporters clearly don't have any symbol, which is acceptable for everybody.

That's fine. I take no issue against that. 

Lord Goose wrote... 

I'm also fine with the races of the galaxy continuing to use the Mass Relays, assuming they achieve total victory over the Reapers. Mostly because that allows for the most potential for future content in the ME universe. But the vast majority of Reaper tech is most certainly destructive. In fact, the mass relays may be the only Reaper tech that is not directly or indirectly destructive in some fashion.

Well, in that case, shouldn't you rather oppose destructive technology?
But almost anything could be destructive. Even Mass Relays could be potentially used as powerful weapon.

You may be slightly missing my point here. My point is that Mass Relays are not directly or indirectly destructive in and of themselves. Almost anything can be corrupted and twisted into a deadly weapon, and mass relays are no exception. But take any form of Reaper tech besides the mass relays, and it either directly or indirectly affects you in negative fashion in and of itself. 

[Ageless Face]

Seival wrote...


As far as I remember, there were a lot of human-hasks inside. Not less then any other type. I think that some of Cerberus soldiers could be too damaged while trying to resist, so they became non-harvestable and just died. Cerberus could try to escape when they realized that the Reapers managed to take control over the "test-harvested" inside the facility, and thus were surrounded by the overwhelming force. And I believe that the Lawson was doomed to become the harvested or to be killed. It was just a matter of time in that situation.

Yet again, there were Cerberus soldiers at the entrence, they didn't seem to be harvested. Why wouldn't they, if the reapers wanted them harvested?

Why would Cerberus want to escape, if they were indoc by the reapers? 

Wasn't Lawson indoc too? He was in charge of it all. He was near the reaper tech as much as the scientists.

And why would there be at the entrence corpses of the Harvested, near more corpses of Cerberus soldiers, and near them also alive Cerberus soldiers? Unless they fought each other. Why would they fight each other if Cerberus was indoc?

[Lord Goose]

But take any form of Reaper tech besides the mass relays, and it either directly or indirectly affects you in negative fashion in and of itself.

Well. Thanix weaponry (created from Reaper's remains), geth upgrade (at least played as positive), IFF system (Salarian fleet and Normandy), EDI... Reaper Blackstar.

Modifié par Lord Goose, 13 juin 2012 - 04:41 .