4520 réponses à ce sujet

[Ageless Face]

WolfyZA wrote...

Nah I just chose the "control" option because I got suckered into thinking I'd live to control the reapers in my human form like from that control panel he pointed towards.

BOOM!!! Just to turn into yet another indoctrinated husk of some sort...

Whats not to say Shepard controlling the Reapers now didn't get power hungry and eventually just keeps on repeating the cycle every 50 000 years like the original Catalyst did before him, or worse just to fly the reapers out of the solar system just to turn back and attack Earth again going "HA HA! Made you look!" and just carry on with the extermination anyways?

Belief?

I think Shepard will become crazy from the thought about actually control the reapers. S/he'll keep them in dark space for the rest of his/her life (of sort of life)

I don't find it likely Shepard will be power hungry. Unless you played your Shepard to want to control the galaxy.


You need to put trust in your Shepard. It's a video game, so I can safely say my Shepard won't do something like that. If it was reality... 

But it's not. So we can all calm down and choose control.

[Seival]

Mingolo wrote...

In my opinion, if the control ending is not a reaper trick, it is the best ending.

My theory is, Shepard's body dies but his consciousness is uploaded into the catalyst, and from there on, Shepard is the catalyst. Either that, or his consciousness get uploaded into some kind of Reaper Cloud Program that overrides the catalyst's orders or evens deletes the catalyst altogether.

Now, if you think what means...you're still alive, but you're now a machine, an immortal being, maybe even considered a god given that you control this invincible army of immense, sentient warships. And if you want a body to interact with people and your old squad members, you can easily make yourself an android body that looks and feels human, and it is immortal.

Furthermore, this ending, unlike the destruction ending, leaves the reapers and all their tech, except the relays, intact, making you able to order the reapers to recreate all mass relays very easily, and able to use the reapers to take the other species stuck on Earth back to their planets (Reaper FTL travel is twice that of citadel species' ships). In the destruction ending, the only other ending in which it's possible for Shepard to live, everything is destroyed, making it a lot harder to fix the relays and get everyone back to their planets.

Of course, the EC may prove all this wrong and make the control ending really bad...so I'll have to wait and see.

Well, the game clearly states that Shepard stopped the Reapers no matter which option was chosen. So, Control is not a trick. You can be 100% sure about that, because EC will not change the endings.

[skarbonke]

[KingZayd]

Seival wrote...

Mingolo wrote...

In my opinion, if the control ending is not a reaper trick, it is the best ending.

My theory is, Shepard's body dies but his consciousness is uploaded into the catalyst, and from there on, Shepard is the catalyst. Either that, or his consciousness get uploaded into some kind of Reaper Cloud Program that overrides the catalyst's orders or evens deletes the catalyst altogether.

Now, if you think what means...you're still alive, but you're now a machine, an immortal being, maybe even considered a god given that you control this invincible army of immense, sentient warships. And if you want a body to interact with people and your old squad members, you can easily make yourself an android body that looks and feels human, and it is immortal.

Furthermore, this ending, unlike the destruction ending, leaves the reapers and all their tech, except the relays, intact, making you able to order the reapers to recreate all mass relays very easily, and able to use the reapers to take the other species stuck on Earth back to their planets (Reaper FTL travel is twice that of citadel species' ships). In the destruction ending, the only other ending in which it's possible for Shepard to live, everything is destroyed, making it a lot harder to fix the relays and get everyone back to their planets.

Of course, the EC may prove all this wrong and make the control ending really bad...so I'll have to wait and see.

Well, the game clearly states that Shepard stopped the Reapers no matter which option was chosen. So, Control is not a trick. You can be 100% sure about that, because EC will not change the endings.

False. The game states that Shepard became a legend for stopping the Reapers. It is very much possible, that people celebrated Shepard's victory, and then after some time, Shepard went crazy/lost himself and sends the Reapers back.

It's the difference between being well behaved, and getting time off for good behaviour.

[Seival]

KingZayd wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mingolo wrote...

In my opinion, if the control ending is not a reaper trick, it is the best ending.

My theory is, Shepard's body dies but his consciousness is uploaded into the catalyst, and from there on, Shepard is the catalyst. Either that, or his consciousness get uploaded into some kind of Reaper Cloud Program that overrides the catalyst's orders or evens deletes the catalyst altogether.

Now, if you think what means...you're still alive, but you're now a machine, an immortal being, maybe even considered a god given that you control this invincible army of immense, sentient warships. And if you want a body to interact with people and your old squad members, you can easily make yourself an android body that looks and feels human, and it is immortal.

Furthermore, this ending, unlike the destruction ending, leaves the reapers and all their tech, except the relays, intact, making you able to order the reapers to recreate all mass relays very easily, and able to use the reapers to take the other species stuck on Earth back to their planets (Reaper FTL travel is twice that of citadel species' ships). In the destruction ending, the only other ending in which it's possible for Shepard to live, everything is destroyed, making it a lot harder to fix the relays and get everyone back to their planets.

Of course, the EC may prove all this wrong and make the control ending really bad...so I'll have to wait and see.

Well, the game clearly states that Shepard stopped the Reapers no matter which option was chosen. So, Control is not a trick. You can be 100% sure about that, because EC will not change the endings.

False. The game states that Shepard became a legend for stopping the Reapers. It is very much possible, that people celebrated Shepard's victory, and then after some time, Shepard went crazy/lost himself and sends the Reapers back.

It's the difference between being well behaved, and getting time off for good behaviour.

I have no idea why do you think that Shepard will try to continue the Cycles. It's like thinking that after Destroy ending Shepard will try to rebuild the dead Reapers... 

...Person like Shepard just can't become psychopath. That's why such person called Remarkably Strong Willed, and Incorruptible.

Modifié par Seival, 19 juin 2012 - 11:48 .

[KingZayd]

Seival wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mingolo wrote...

In my opinion, if the control ending is not a reaper trick, it is the best ending.

My theory is, Shepard's body dies but his consciousness is uploaded into the catalyst, and from there on, Shepard is the catalyst. Either that, or his consciousness get uploaded into some kind of Reaper Cloud Program that overrides the catalyst's orders or evens deletes the catalyst altogether.

Now, if you think what means...you're still alive, but you're now a machine, an immortal being, maybe even considered a god given that you control this invincible army of immense, sentient warships. And if you want a body to interact with people and your old squad members, you can easily make yourself an android body that looks and feels human, and it is immortal.

Furthermore, this ending, unlike the destruction ending, leaves the reapers and all their tech, except the relays, intact, making you able to order the reapers to recreate all mass relays very easily, and able to use the reapers to take the other species stuck on Earth back to their planets (Reaper FTL travel is twice that of citadel species' ships). In the destruction ending, the only other ending in which it's possible for Shepard to live, everything is destroyed, making it a lot harder to fix the relays and get everyone back to their planets.

Of course, the EC may prove all this wrong and make the control ending really bad...so I'll have to wait and see.

Well, the game clearly states that Shepard stopped the Reapers no matter which option was chosen. So, Control is not a trick. You can be 100% sure about that, because EC will not change the endings.

False. The game states that Shepard became a legend for stopping the Reapers. It is very much possible, that people celebrated Shepard's victory, and then after some time, Shepard went crazy/lost himself and sends the Reapers back.

It's the difference between being well behaved, and getting time off for good behaviour.

I have no idea why do you think that Shepard will try to continue the Cycles. It's like thinking that after Destroy ending Shepard will try to rebuild the dead Reapers... 

...Person like Shepard just can't become psychopath. That's why such person called Remarkably Strong Willed, and Incorruptible.

He has forever to do so. Everybody breaks eventually. He might not "continue the cycles", but eventually it is likely he will abuse the power.

[Seival]

KingZayd wrote...

Seival wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mingolo wrote...

In my opinion, if the control ending is not a reaper trick, it is the best ending.

My theory is, Shepard's body dies but his consciousness is uploaded into the catalyst, and from there on, Shepard is the catalyst. Either that, or his consciousness get uploaded into some kind of Reaper Cloud Program that overrides the catalyst's orders or evens deletes the catalyst altogether.

Now, if you think what means...you're still alive, but you're now a machine, an immortal being, maybe even considered a god given that you control this invincible army of immense, sentient warships. And if you want a body to interact with people and your old squad members, you can easily make yourself an android body that looks and feels human, and it is immortal.

Furthermore, this ending, unlike the destruction ending, leaves the reapers and all their tech, except the relays, intact, making you able to order the reapers to recreate all mass relays very easily, and able to use the reapers to take the other species stuck on Earth back to their planets (Reaper FTL travel is twice that of citadel species' ships). In the destruction ending, the only other ending in which it's possible for Shepard to live, everything is destroyed, making it a lot harder to fix the relays and get everyone back to their planets.

Of course, the EC may prove all this wrong and make the control ending really bad...so I'll have to wait and see.

Well, the game clearly states that Shepard stopped the Reapers no matter which option was chosen. So, Control is not a trick. You can be 100% sure about that, because EC will not change the endings.

False. The game states that Shepard became a legend for stopping the Reapers. It is very much possible, that people celebrated Shepard's victory, and then after some time, Shepard went crazy/lost himself and sends the Reapers back.

It's the difference between being well behaved, and getting time off for good behaviour.

I have no idea why do you think that Shepard will try to continue the Cycles. It's like thinking that after Destroy ending Shepard will try to rebuild the dead Reapers... 

...Person like Shepard just can't become psychopath. That's why such person called Remarkably Strong Willed, and Incorruptible.

He has forever to do so. Everybody breaks eventually. He might not "continue the cycles", but eventually it is likely he will abuse the power.

Incorrect. Even not all humans "brake eventually". And most importantly, the Catalist is not a human. It's an AI with enormous processing power, and no weak-living-being body. Shepard's incorruptible mind and the Catalist's properties make Shepard-Catalist 100% immune to all mental deseases.

[KingZayd]

Seival wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Seival wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mingolo wrote...

In my opinion, if the control ending is not a reaper trick, it is the best ending.

My theory is, Shepard's body dies but his consciousness is uploaded into the catalyst, and from there on, Shepard is the catalyst. Either that, or his consciousness get uploaded into some kind of Reaper Cloud Program that overrides the catalyst's orders or evens deletes the catalyst altogether.

Now, if you think what means...you're still alive, but you're now a machine, an immortal being, maybe even considered a god given that you control this invincible army of immense, sentient warships. And if you want a body to interact with people and your old squad members, you can easily make yourself an android body that looks and feels human, and it is immortal.

Furthermore, this ending, unlike the destruction ending, leaves the reapers and all their tech, except the relays, intact, making you able to order the reapers to recreate all mass relays very easily, and able to use the reapers to take the other species stuck on Earth back to their planets (Reaper FTL travel is twice that of citadel species' ships). In the destruction ending, the only other ending in which it's possible for Shepard to live, everything is destroyed, making it a lot harder to fix the relays and get everyone back to their planets.

Of course, the EC may prove all this wrong and make the control ending really bad...so I'll have to wait and see.

Well, the game clearly states that Shepard stopped the Reapers no matter which option was chosen. So, Control is not a trick. You can be 100% sure about that, because EC will not change the endings.

False. The game states that Shepard became a legend for stopping the Reapers. It is very much possible, that people celebrated Shepard's victory, and then after some time, Shepard went crazy/lost himself and sends the Reapers back.

It's the difference between being well behaved, and getting time off for good behaviour.

I have no idea why do you think that Shepard will try to continue the Cycles. It's like thinking that after Destroy ending Shepard will try to rebuild the dead Reapers... 

...Person like Shepard just can't become psychopath. That's why such person called Remarkably Strong Willed, and Incorruptible.

He has forever to do so. Everybody breaks eventually. He might not "continue the cycles", but eventually it is likely he will abuse the power.

Incorrect. Even not all humans "brake eventually". And most importantly, the Catalist is not a human. It's an AI with enormous processing power, and no weak-living-being body. Shepard's incorruptible mind and the Catalist's properties make Shepard-Catalist 100% immune to all mental deseases.

They actually do. Also, we've seen that AIs are by no means perfect. A) you don't know that Shepard becomes like the Starchild, and there is nothing to suggest that that Shepard's personality wouldn't change over time.

[Kurremurre]

Seival wrote...

I have no idea why do you think that Shepard will try to continue the Cycles. It's like thinking that after Destroy ending Shepard will try to rebuild the dead Reapers... 

...Person like Shepard just can't become psychopath. That's why such person called Remarkably Strong Willed, and Incorruptible.

Everything here is just wrong

First off, already being in control of an immense army of unstoppable death machines is quite different from trying to rebuild that same immense army when you don't know squat about its advanced technology to begin with. In the former case, Shepard already possesses incredible power just waiting to be abused. In the latter, he would have to make an impossible effort to acquire that power. Your comparison is absurd.

Second, Renegade Shepard is arguably a psychopath to begin with.

[Ageless Face]

@KingZayd, I think that if, let say, in the first 50,000 years Shepard will help the organics, I firmly believe the organics will be strong enough to later defend themselves against the reapers. Galactic society will advance amazingaly thanks to the reapers. Galactic soceity will evovlve so much that even if Shepard will decide to rule the galaxy, the people in it will know how to fight back. Hell, maybe they will even know where the catalyst is, where Shepard is, and what to do later.

I firmly believe that even IF Shepard will eventually become power hungry, it will take a LONG time. Even after 500 years the galactic society will probably advance a lot. Maybe Shepard will give the secret of lowering the reapers' shields to someone, just in case Shepard will go crazy?

Modifié par HagarIshay, 19 juin 2012 - 12:28 .

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

@KingZayd, I think that if, let say, in the first 50,000 years Shepard will help the organics, I firmly believe the organics will be strong enough to later defend themselves against the reapers. Galactic society will advance amazingaly thanks to the reapers. Galactic soceity will evovlve so much that even if Shepard will decide to rule the galaxy, the people in it will know how to fight back. Hell, maybe they will even know where the catalyst is, where Shepard is, and what to do later.

I firmly believe that even IF Shepard will eventually become power hungry, it will take a LONG time. Even after 500 years the galactic society will probably advance a lot. Maybe Shepard will give the secret of lowering the reapers' shields to someone, just in case Shepard will go crazy?

I agree, for a paragon Shepard, it's going to take a while certainly. But how long is long enough? For us, even 100 years is a very long time. Sure, the longer he holds off, the greater a chance the galaxy has of standing up to him. It would take even longer, before the galaxy is able to advance sufficiently beyond the Reapers to be safe. It's a massive gamble. One that I feel would be irresponsible to make.

Does Shepard have access to the secret behind lowering the reapers' shields? Is the Starchild gone? or is he still about?

[Ageless Face]

KingZayd wrote...

I agree, for a paragon Shepard, it's going to take a while certainly. But how long is long enough? For us, even 100 years is a very long time. Sure, the longer he holds off, the greater a chance the galaxy has of standing up to him. It would take even longer, before the galaxy is able to advance sufficiently beyond the Reapers to be safe. It's a massive gamble. One that I feel would be irresponsible to make.

Does Shepard have access to the secret behind lowering the reapers' shields? Is the Starchild gone? or is he still about?

True. We don't know how much time Shepard will last. I doubt Shepard won't break eventually. I also doubt it will take a short time for Shepard tp break. S/he is still very strong willed, as been said before me. Shepard has suffred much no matter how you played your game. It didn't break him/her. I rather doubt a Shepard who always defended the galaxy and the people in it will leave them so soon. I doubt it will be less than a 100 years until Shepard will break. Even after 100 years I can see the galaxy advances. Tali said exactly after the mission on Rannoch how much the geth help them rebuild. And the reapers are X50 more advance than the geth. I MAY put too much faith in Shepard. But to me Shepard controling the reapers is not so much of a long shot.

And I'm pretty sure Shepard will know how lower the reapers' shields, since s/he has control over them. If controling the reapers can't even tell Shepard how to lower the shields, then the control is too limited for Shepard to actually control. 

And if I recall right, the catalyst is vanishing when Shepard is holding the rods. I imagine it means Shepard takes his place. And also the fact the catalyst says "you think you can control us" is also suggesting Shepard will have control over the catalyst.

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

I agree, for a paragon Shepard, it's going to take a while certainly. But how long is long enough? For us, even 100 years is a very long time. Sure, the longer he holds off, the greater a chance the galaxy has of standing up to him. It would take even longer, before the galaxy is able to advance sufficiently beyond the Reapers to be safe. It's a massive gamble. One that I feel would be irresponsible to make.

Does Shepard have access to the secret behind lowering the reapers' shields? Is the Starchild gone? or is he still about?

True. We don't know how much time Shepard will last. I doubt Shepard won't break eventually. I also doubt it will take a short time for Shepard tp break. S/he is still very strong willed, as been said before me. Shepard has suffred much no matter how you played your game. It didn't break him/her. I rather doubt a Shepard who always defended the galaxy and the people in it will leave them so soon. I doubt it will be less than a 100 years until Shepard will break. Even after 100 years I can see the galaxy advances. Tali said exactly after the mission on Rannoch how much the geth help them rebuild. And the reapers are X50 more advance than the geth. I MAY put too much faith in Shepard. But to me Shepard controling the reapers is not so much of a long shot.

And I'm pretty sure Shepard will know how lower the reapers' shields, since s/he has control over them. If controling the reapers can't even tell Shepard how to lower the shields, then the control is too limited for Shepard to actually control. 

And if I recall right, the catalyst is vanishing when Shepard is holding the rods. I imagine it means Shepard takes his place. And also the fact the catalyst says "you think you can control us" is also suggesting Shepard will have control over the catalyst.

Well controlling isn't the same thing as knowing. And yeah, just as people debate the level of control the Starchild has, people should speculate on the the level of control Shepard will have.

Well the hologram is only there for Shepard's benefit. The Starchild vanishing, doesn't necessarily mean it's gone.
And yes, the Starchild does suggest that Shepard will have control over the him. I ask, because if the Starchild is there, he could still have some influence. Particularly if they're connected.

It would be interesting if the Starchild just wants to get Shepard's (an excellent fighter and leader) mind, as a sort of combat upgrade. To make his solution better.

[Ageless Face]

KingZayd wrote...

Well controlling isn't the same thing as knowing. And yeah, just as people debate the level of control the Starchild has, people should speculate on the the level of control Shepard will have.

Well the hologram is only there for Shepard's benefit. The Starchild vanishing, doesn't necessarily mean it's gone.
And yes, the Starchild does suggest that Shepard will have control over the him. I ask, because if the Starchild is there, he could still have some influence. Particularly if they're connected.

It would be interesting if the Starchild just wants to get Shepard's (an excellent fighter and leader) mind, as a sort of combat upgrade. To make his solution better.

Well, if Shepard wil control, there are basics Shepard should know. Lowering shields is one of them. Shepard will at least need to know how the reapers work. Otherwise, casting orders will be (I'm guessing) impossible. If the catalyst thinks Shepard controling the reapers will be solve his problem, I imagine the catalyst and Shepard will at least know how to actually control. If not, then control is too pointless, both for the catalyst- and to Shepard.

True, yet I don't think the catalyst is vanshing in synthesis, at least not that we see it. I think that the hologram is connected to the catalyst himself. I may be wrong about this, though.

Yet the catalyst also adviced Shepard synthesis, and gave him/her the option of destroy. The catalyst, in those cases, won't get any benefiets for his solution. Unless you are talking about indoctrination. In that case, it's possible that the catalyst tried to do that. 

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Well controlling isn't the same thing as knowing. And yeah, just as people debate the level of control the Starchild has, people should speculate on the the level of control Shepard will have.

Well the hologram is only there for Shepard's benefit. The Starchild vanishing, doesn't necessarily mean it's gone.
And yes, the Starchild does suggest that Shepard will have control over the him. I ask, because if the Starchild is there, he could still have some influence. Particularly if they're connected.

It would be interesting if the Starchild just wants to get Shepard's (an excellent fighter and leader) mind, as a sort of combat upgrade. To make his solution better.

Well, if Shepard wil control, there are basics Shepard should know. Lowering shields is one of them. Shepard will at least need to know how the reapers work. Otherwise, casting orders will be (I'm guessing) impossible. If the catalyst thinks Shepard controling the reapers will be solve his problem, I imagine the catalyst and Shepard will at least know how to actually control. If not, then control is too pointless, both for the catalyst- and to Shepard.

True, yet I don't think the catalyst is vanshing in synthesis, at least not that we see it. I think that the hologram is connected to the catalyst himself. I may be wrong about this, though.

Yet the catalyst also adviced Shepard synthesis, and gave him/her the option of destroy. The catalyst, in those cases, won't get any benefiets for his solution. Unless you are talking about indoctrination. In that case, it's possible that the catalyst tried to do that. 

Not if the Starchild doesn't want him to. It depends on the nature of control. It could just "tell us when, and what you want us to attack" for example

I think in Destroy, the Starchild is nowhere to be seen, even before the explosion. He also vanishes after your initial conversation.

True. But then the Citadel is only part of of the Starchild apparently. So the Starchild  might not be dead in Synthesis. And the Reapers are still around.

[Mingolo]

What's wrong with Shepard abusing his power? My main Shepard is a renegade, that's the other reason for choosing the control ending.

If I could play Shepard after ME3, after rebuilding the galaxy, I would attempt making humans what protheans used to be in their cycle, that is make humans control the citadel and be the governing power in the galaxy, we saved the galaxy after all, so they "owe" us and that's the excuse I'd use at first. It would be a slow change, not an abrupt one, so people could get used to it and didn't fight back. But anyone that tries aggressively opposing this gets put in their place quietly with human spectres, if it gets out of hand and reaches military opposition, they would be met with a huge reaper fleet destroying theirs and trade sanctions. If a species gets to be too much a problem too often...extermination time. Kill every single one and turn them into husks, make reaper destroyers out of them.

Anyone that doesn't oppose the new system too much, would instead get help from the reapers to rebuild, and even to set up new colonies for them and any other things they may need help with, and would not be interfered with very much and treated well. Basically a Persian system of ruling, punish rebels, reward those who behave well.

Eventually, once everything has been rebuilt and the alliance has the galaxy fully under control and the reapers aren't needed as much to help and police, my main goal would be to study reaper tech to see if it is possible to fly to other galaxies, or some way can be found to fly to other galaxies, because...reaper capital ships and destroyers need to be replenished to keep our strength up. Once the reapers have done their thing in the other galaxy, it can also be used to expand our own galaxy's holdings, make them part of the Alliance Empire.

So, will my Shepard abuse his power? He most certainly will after rebuilding the relays.

Modifié par Mingolo, 19 juin 2012 - 02:13 .

[Jamie9]

Mingolo wrote...

What's wrong with Shepard abusing his power? My main Shepard is a renegade, that's the other reason for choosing the control ending.

If I could play Shepard after ME3, after rebuilding the galaxy, I would attempt making humans what protheans used to be in their cycle, that is make humans control the citadel and be the governing power in the galaxy, we saved the galaxy after all, so they "owe" us and that's the excuse I'd use at first. It would be a slow change, not an abrupt one, so people could get used to it and didn't fight back. But anyone that tries aggressively opposing this gets put in their place quietly with human spectres, if it gets out of hand and reaches military opposition, they would be met with a huge reaper fleet destroying theirs and trade sanctions. If a species gets to be too much a problem too often...extermination time. Kill every single one and turn them into husks, make reaper destroyers out of them.

Anyone that doesn't oppose the new system too much, would instead get help from the reapers to rebuild, and even to set up new colonies for them and any other things they may need help with, and would not be interfered with very much and treated well. Basically a Persian system of ruling, punish rebels, reward those who behave well.

Eventually, once everything has been rebuilt and the alliance has the galaxy fully under control and the reapers aren't needed as much to help and police, my main goal would be to study reaper tech to see if it is possible to fly to other galaxies, or some way can be found to fly to other galaxies, because...reaper capital ships and destroyers need to be replenished to keep our strength up. Once the reapers have done their thing in the other galaxy, it can also be used to expand our own galaxy's holdings, make them part of the Alliance Empire.

So, will my Shepard abuse his power? He most certainly will after rebuilding the relays.

My God. You're mad.

Control should have had a Paragon and Renegade variant though. It's the only ending that really demands it have multiple outcomes.

[Ageless Face]

KingZayd wrote...

Not if the Starchild doesn't want him to. It depends on the nature of control. It could just "tell us when, and what you want us to attack" for example

I think in Destroy, the Starchild is nowhere to be seen, even before the explosion. He also vanishes after your initial conversation.

True. But then the Citadel is only part of of the Starchild apparently. So the Starchild  might not be dead in Synthesis. And the Reapers are still around.

Well, it's true. But this type of control seems a little too simple. The catalyst is very advance.  Surely control is more than such simple orders. The reapers are also advanced. I doubt you can control them only with little orders. They might evem be able to override it. If control is a possibility, there must be more to it. 

Watched destroy just now. The catalyst dissapears right when the first explosion hits. Though the first explosion is not really destroying the tube. So it's not really enough to tell us if he's connected to the actual catalyst or not.

True, but the catalyst will have no purpose if all the synthetics and organics will change into hybrid. Synthetics won't rebel against organics, since they won't be the same. And the catalyst still gives us destroy, which will destroy his reapers. Why would he do that? It won't help his solution. But it will help the galaxy. So I'm assuming the two other choices are the same in that aspect.  

[Ageless Face]

Jamie9 wrote...

My God. You're mad.

Control should have had a Paragon and Renegade variant though. It's the only ending that really demands it have multiple outcomes.

Defenitly. It suits renegades, paragon, paragades.... 

There are so many things you can do with reapers at your command. 

[Mingolo]

Also, I think the second main goal of my Shepard would be to make sure Reaper tech is always hundreds of years ahead of citadel races, establishing secret research stations in deep space to keep upgrading Reaper weaponry and technology out of sight from organics. This would counter the advance that organics will make after being "freed" from the cycle. The alliance would get some of it, but only some and not the most powerful ones, just in case they decide they'd rather have the reapers gone...

[Ageless Face]

@Mingolo

Are you also planning to take the Citadel races' resources, tech?

Are you planning to use the harvestration tech? and indoctrination?

Sincerely asking. Just curious what are you going to do.

[Seival]

KingZayd wrote...

Seival wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Seival wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Seival wrote...

Mingolo wrote...

In my opinion, if the control ending is not a reaper trick, it is the best ending.

My theory is, Shepard's body dies but his consciousness is uploaded into the catalyst, and from there on, Shepard is the catalyst. Either that, or his consciousness get uploaded into some kind of Reaper Cloud Program that overrides the catalyst's orders or evens deletes the catalyst altogether.

Now, if you think what means...you're still alive, but you're now a machine, an immortal being, maybe even considered a god given that you control this invincible army of immense, sentient warships. And if you want a body to interact with people and your old squad members, you can easily make yourself an android body that looks and feels human, and it is immortal.

Furthermore, this ending, unlike the destruction ending, leaves the reapers and all their tech, except the relays, intact, making you able to order the reapers to recreate all mass relays very easily, and able to use the reapers to take the other species stuck on Earth back to their planets (Reaper FTL travel is twice that of citadel species' ships). In the destruction ending, the only other ending in which it's possible for Shepard to live, everything is destroyed, making it a lot harder to fix the relays and get everyone back to their planets.

Of course, the EC may prove all this wrong and make the control ending really bad...so I'll have to wait and see.

Well, the game clearly states that Shepard stopped the Reapers no matter which option was chosen. So, Control is not a trick. You can be 100% sure about that, because EC will not change the endings.

False. The game states that Shepard became a legend for stopping the Reapers. It is very much possible, that people celebrated Shepard's victory, and then after some time, Shepard went crazy/lost himself and sends the Reapers back.

It's the difference between being well behaved, and getting time off for good behaviour.

I have no idea why do you think that Shepard will try to continue the Cycles. It's like thinking that after Destroy ending Shepard will try to rebuild the dead Reapers... 

...Person like Shepard just can't become psychopath. That's why such person called Remarkably Strong Willed, and Incorruptible.

He has forever to do so. Everybody breaks eventually. He might not "continue the cycles", but eventually it is likely he will abuse the power.

Incorrect. Even not all humans "brake eventually". And most importantly, the Catalist is not a human. It's an AI with enormous processing power, and no weak-living-being body. Shepard's incorruptible mind and the Catalist's properties make Shepard-Catalist 100% immune to all mental deseases.

They actually do. Also, we've seen that AIs are by no means perfect. A) you don't know that Shepard becomes like the Starchild, and there is nothing to suggest that that Shepard's personality wouldn't change over time.

Actually there are some exceptional individuals who can withstand even torments without loosing themselves. There are such people in real life I mean. I don't remember any names right now, but you can stady the history of any major war in human history to find the names.

Being the Catalist is not even a torment. It's power... And there are no "practical" reasons to abuse this power, because this will achieve nothing. The only reason to abuse the power is to become even more powerful. But the Catalist can't become even more powerful than it is already... Shepard can actually use this power to help lesser races without harvesting them as the previous Catalist.

...And if 500000 years later harvest will begin again for the same reasons, this will only mean that the first Catalist was 100% right from the beginning, and Shepard was wrong to stop it... I want to repeat: if the harvest will begin again. And I'm afraid we have no way to know for sure. But what we really know for sure, is that in case of Synthesis or Destroy there will be no Reapers to start the Cycles if they were really inevitable.

Modifié par Seival, 19 juin 2012 - 05:43 .

[KingZayd]

HagarIshay wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Not if the Starchild doesn't want him to. It depends on the nature of control. It could just "tell us when, and what you want us to attack" for example

I think in Destroy, the Starchild is nowhere to be seen, even before the explosion. He also vanishes after your initial conversation.

True. But then the Citadel is only part of of the Starchild apparently. So the Starchild  might not be dead in Synthesis. And the Reapers are still around.

Well, it's true. But this type of control seems a little too simple. The catalyst is very advance.  Surely control is more than such simple orders. The reapers are also advanced. I doubt you can control them only with little orders. They might evem be able to override it. If control is a possibility, there must be more to it. 

Watched destroy just now. The catalyst dissapears right when the first explosion hits. Though the first explosion is not really destroying the tube. So it's not really enough to tell us if he's connected to the actual catalyst or not.

True, but the catalyst will have no purpose if all the synthetics and organics will change into hybrid. Synthetics won't rebel against organics, since they won't be the same. And the catalyst still gives us destroy, which will destroy his reapers. Why would he do that? It won't help his solution. But it will help the galaxy. So I'm assuming the two other choices are the same in that aspect.  

Well that's the thing. We know the Reapers are intelligent. The more control , the less likely it is. I think if the Reapers are controlled, it's through indoctrination. This would be how the Reapers are sentient, yet controlled and controlled without seeming to know that they are being controlled. But the degree of control is unclear. And controlling a Reaper's mind is one thing, knowing the structural details is another.

OK, but the Starchild also disappears between talking to you and your choice, so it disappearing doesn't really mean anything.

That's assuming the Reaping cycle is really all about synthetic vs organics. And yeah, that's why I suspect there's something else going on. The scene doesn't make sense at face value. Starchild says us being there proves his solution won't work anymore, but we're only there because he brought us. There was no reason to bring us upstairs (the crucible wasn't firing, convention victory was impossible. The Reapers had won), never mind tell us about destroy (which if true, is bad for the Reapers and does nothing about the hypothetical organics vs synthetics conflict it claims to care about). Nor is there any reason for the Starchild to care about organic life.

My first thoughts were: it's an overly elaborate way of getting us to similtaneously sabotage the Crucible and kill ourselves. But it seems to me that IT is the only way the scene makes any sense.

[sAxMoNkI]

Seival wrote...

Actually there are some exceptional individuals who can withstand even torments without loosing themselves. There are such people in real life I mean. I don't remember any names right now, but you can stady the history of any major war in human history to find the names.

Being the Catalist is not even a torment. It's power... And there are no "practical" reasons to abuse this power, because this will achieve nothing. The only reason to abuse the power is to become even more powerful. But the Catalist can't become even more powerful than it is already... Shepard can actually use this power to help lesser races without harvesting them as the previous Catalist.

...And if 500000 years later harvest will begin again for the same reasons, this will only mean that the first Catalist was 100% right from the beginning, and Shepard was wrong to stop it... I want to repeat: if the harvest will begin again. And I'm afraid we have no way to know for sure. But what we really know for sure, is that in case of Synthesis or Destroy there will be no Reapers to start the Cycles if they were really inevitable.

Just to chime in here but given enough time even something with a 0.00001% chance of happening will (eventually) happen. The point here is that with Shepard now being effectively immortal who's to say what will happen 10,000/50,000/1,000,000,000 years down the line.

Of course there's a high chance that he will remain "good" but it is not a 100% chance. Furthermore being in control of that much power, he would effectively become a deity-esque figure and in that situation what's to stop him/her becoming the moral arbiter of the galaxy?

By ceasing to be human it is then very reasonable to assume that given enough time Shep would cease to adhere to human morals, ethics or laws and utilise more relevant ones to his/her observations and experiences given his/her vastly expanded viewpoint.

....you know, unless being suddenly in control of that much processing power and that amount of information drove him completely insane instantly.

Modifié par sAxMoNkI, 19 juin 2012 - 05:51 .

[M Hedonist]

Seival wrote...

Actually there are some exceptional individuals who can withstand even torments without loosing themselves. There are such people in real life I mean. I don't remember any names right now, but you can stady the history of any major war in human history to find the names.

There were real people who took control over thousands of Reapers (each a nation)? Lolwut?

Being the Catalist is not even a torment. It's power...

And this quote alone says everything anybody needs to know about this thread.

And there are no "practical" reasons to abuse this power, because this will achieve nothing.

Yup. Nothing bad ever happened in the history of everything when somebody gained too much power.
People becoming unreasonable after gaining more power than was good for them? Nothing but a mere tale spun by silly psychologists! Ha! Seival will rewrite modern psychology!

Modifié par Sauruz, 19 juin 2012 - 05:51 .