JackumsD wrote...
I don't think that's possible, as emotions are an organic trait, and Shep becomes an AI.
Mesina2 wrote...
Did I sound like I disagreed?
Mesina2 wrote...
Well, Legion shown emotions to Shepard. To some extent, without realizing it.
Same with EDI, only that one is noticed.
So I guess it's possible for Shepard to regain some if he/she get's to interact with organics like EDI and Legion.
And there's nothing to stop fro Shepard to have some avatar to control for himself/herself.
It's physically impossible for a machine to experience any form of feeling, as both EDI and Legion have explained before. Emotions are a result of chemical reactions in the body. Machines are made of metals and such. Neither Legion or EDI ever felt emotions, they just acted in ways they couldn't explain as a result of being around Shep and basically changing, in terms of how they function, due to his influence. EDI finally begins to feel in the Synthesis ending as a result of being combined with organics, therefore attaining the ability to really feel.Mesina2 wrote...
JackumsD wrote...
I don't think that's possible, as emotions are an organic trait, and Shep becomes an AI.HagarIshay wrote...
a question. Does Shepard keeping his/her feelings? We are told that memories will stay. But were we told about emotions?
Well, Legion shown emotions to Shepard. To some extent, without realizing it.
Same with EDI, only that one is noticed.
So I guess it's possible for Shepard to regain some if he/she get's to interact with organics like EDI and Legion.
And there's nothing to stop fro Shepard to have some avatar to control for himself/herself.
Because Renegade Shep has different memories to a Paragon Shep, and AI Shep bases its actions on the memories of who it was as a human.HagarIshay wrote...
JackumsD wrote...
I don't think that's possible, as emotions are an organic trait, and Shep becomes an AI.
Then... Why does renegade is different than the paragon Shepard? Is it because of prefrences?
Modifié par JackumsD, 29 juin 2012 - 11:37 .
It wasn't. AI are designed to display and act as organics do, as to more easily communicate with them. Legion explains this to Shepard in ME2, and I also think EDI elaborates on the topic in one of the games. Legion acted in self-defense of the geth, as it's programmed to do. Machines physically cannot feel emotions.KingZayd wrote...
You see emotions in EDI and the Geth.
Try stopping Legion from uploading the Reaper code, and then tell me that's not emotion.
Modifié par JackumsD, 29 juin 2012 - 11:40 .
JackumsD wrote...
Edited my banner post and added a second version with a border.
Thanks! I may make some more in the future.Seival wrote...
JackumsD wrote...
Edited my banner post and added a second version with a border.
Great banner! You should make more of them
HagarIshay wrote...
Mesina2 wrote...
Well, Legion shown emotions to Shepard. To some extent, without realizing it.
Same with EDI, only that one is noticed.
So I guess it's possible for Shepard to regain some if he/she get's to interact with organics like EDI and Legion.
And there's nothing to stop fro Shepard to have some avatar to control for himself/herself.
Yeah, guess that makes sense.
Modifié par nitefyre410, 29 juin 2012 - 11:49 .
JackumsD wrote...
It wasn't. AI are designed to display and act as organics do, as to more easily communicate with them. Legion explains this to Shepard in ME2, and I also think EDI elaborates on the topic in one of the games. Legion acted in self-defense of the geth, as it's programmed to do. Machines physically cannot feel emotions.KingZayd wrote...
You see emotions in EDI and the Geth.
Try stopping Legion from uploading the Reaper code, and then tell me that's not emotion.
They weren't emotions, because synthetics are incapable of feeling, to any degree. They lack a nervous system. Legion's outward display was, as I explained, how AI are programmed to allow organics to better understand them when communicating. For example, an AI will take on an angry tone when an argument gets heated to portray their state of mind as a human would. This is shown when EDI is arguing with Javik on the Normandy in ME2. I can't find a video on YouTube, but there have been a number of conversations in the ME games where it has been explained that synthetics do not feel, but rather act as though they do to allow organics to better understand them.KingZayd wrote...
JackumsD wrote...
It wasn't. AI are designed to display and act as organics do, as to more easily communicate with them. Legion explains this to Shepard in ME2, and I also think EDI elaborates on the topic in one of the games. Legion acted in self-defense of the geth, as it's programmed to do. Machines physically cannot feel emotions.KingZayd wrote...
You see emotions in EDI and the Geth.
Try stopping Legion from uploading the Reaper code, and then tell me that's not emotion.
This isn't part of the Geth's design.. you know why? Because that sort of thing would scare the Quarians.
Legion reacted emotionally. Sure, they weren't based on hormones etc, but there were emotions present. Either that, or he's faking emotions cynically, I suppose.. which would be quite sinister yet also cool.
JackumsD wrote...
I understand what people are suggesting in terms of EDI, the geth, and them displaying emotions. I think a better explanation would be them both taking on human morality, which previously didn't exist as a part of their programming, but they adapted and learned it from Shepard. That would make them appear as though they're "feeling", but the reality is they're just becoming more human in their way of thinking. It's not until Synthesis that they're capable of real emotion. Emotions require a nervous system, which synthetics do not possess. They do, however, possess the capacity to take on organic ideals and way of thinking and processing information, which is what Legion and EDI did.
Lord Goose wrote...
I think it would be correct to call examples display of synthetic emotions.
Legion clearly made some decisions which cannot be explained by logic. For example, he used piece of Shepard's armor to patch himself up, and refused to clarify why.
He was clearly shocked when discovered that heretic geth started spying on the original geth. Also, Shadow Broker archives tell us, that he was swearing in MMORPG, which caused him note from moderators.
So, he is definitely not driven only by rationality and logic.
JackumsD wrote...
They weren't emotions, because synthetics are incapable of feeling, to any degree. They lack a nervous system. Legion's outward display was, as I explained, how AI are programmed to allow organics to better understand them when communicating. For example, an AI will take on an angry tone when an argument gets heated to portray their state of mind as a human would. This is shown when EDI is arguing with Javik on the Normandy in ME2. I can't find a video on YouTube, but there have been a number of conversations in the ME games where it has been explained that synthetics do not feel, but rather act as though they do to allow organics to better understand them.KingZayd wrote...
JackumsD wrote...
It wasn't. AI are designed to display and act as organics do, as to more easily communicate with them. Legion explains this to Shepard in ME2, and I also think EDI elaborates on the topic in one of the games. Legion acted in self-defense of the geth, as it's programmed to do. Machines physically cannot feel emotions.KingZayd wrote...
You see emotions in EDI and the Geth.
Try stopping Legion from uploading the Reaper code, and then tell me that's not emotion.
This isn't part of the Geth's design.. you know why? Because that sort of thing would scare the Quarians.
Legion reacted emotionally. Sure, they weren't based on hormones etc, but there were emotions present. Either that, or he's faking emotions cynically, I suppose.. which would be quite sinister yet also cool.
Modifié par KingZayd, 29 juin 2012 - 02:17 .
Again, synthetics word what they say and speak in a way that humans can understand. For EDI, she's anti-Reapers because she's taken on the traits of organic morality, and therefore perceives what the Reapers are doing as "bad", and as a result uses the term "hate" to describe her stance in regards to them in a way that translates easily to an organic, due to the morality she's taken on from Shepard. Synthetics physically cannot feel emotion. It's impossible.KingZayd wrote...
JackumsD wrote...
They weren't emotions, because synthetics are incapable of feeling, to any degree. They lack a nervous system. Legion's outward display was, as I explained, how AI are programmed to allow organics to better understand them when communicating. For example, an AI will take on an angry tone when an argument gets heated to portray their state of mind as a human would. This is shown when EDI is arguing with Javik on the Normandy in ME2. I can't find a video on YouTube, but there have been a number of conversations in the ME games where it has been explained that synthetics do not feel, but rather act as though they do to allow organics to better understand them.KingZayd wrote...
JackumsD wrote...
It wasn't. AI are designed to display and act as organics do, as to more easily communicate with them. Legion explains this to Shepard in ME2, and I also think EDI elaborates on the topic in one of the games. Legion acted in self-defense of the geth, as it's programmed to do. Machines physically cannot feel emotions.KingZayd wrote...
You see emotions in EDI and the Geth.
Try stopping Legion from uploading the Reaper code, and then tell me that's not emotion.
This isn't part of the Geth's design.. you know why? Because that sort of thing would scare the Quarians.
Legion reacted emotionally. Sure, they weren't based on hormones etc, but there were emotions present. Either that, or he's faking emotions cynically, I suppose.. which would be quite sinister yet also cool.
Really? When EDI says she's willing to die for Joker, and that she hates the Reapers, that's not an emotional response? That "only now does (she) feel alive", that's not emotion? It's not the answer to an equation. It's a feeling.
That's easily explained as him taking on organic/human habits. It doesn't indicate emotion. Beyond the fact that's it's impossible for a machine to "feel", it's been stated many times by EDI that she does not feel as an organic does, although she possesses a process which would be the synthetic equivalent of emotion. I've been searching for it on YouTube but can't find it. It's one of the conversations you have with her on the Normandy, IIRC.Lord Goose wrote...
I think it would be correct to call examples display of synthetic emotions.
Legion clearly made some decisions which cannot be explained by logic. For example, he used piece of Shepard's armor to patch himself up, and refused to clarify why.
He was clearly shocked when discovered that heretic geth started spying on the original geth. Also, Shadow Broker archives tell us, that he was swearing in MMORPG, which caused him note from moderators.
So, he is definitely not driven only by rationality and logic.
JackumsD wrote...
Again, synthetics word what they say and speak in a way that humans can understand. For EDI, she's anti-Reapers because she's taken on the traits of organic morality, and therefore perceives what the Reapers are doing as "bad", and as a result uses the term "hate" to describe her stance in regards to them in a way that translates easily to an organic, due to the morality she's taken on from Shepard. Synthetics physically cannot feel emotion. It's impossible.
JackumsD wrote...
Again, synthetics word what they say and speak in a way that humans can understand. For EDI, she's anti-Reapers because she's taken on the traits of organic morality, and therefore perceives what the Reapers are doing as "bad", and as a result uses the term "hate" to describe her stance in regards to them in a way that translates easily to an organic, due to the morality she's taken on from Shepard. Synthetics physically cannot feel emotion. It's impossible.KingZayd wrote...
JackumsD wrote...
They weren't emotions, because synthetics are incapable of feeling, to any degree. They lack a nervous system. Legion's outward display was, as I explained, how AI are programmed to allow organics to better understand them when communicating. For example, an AI will take on an angry tone when an argument gets heated to portray their state of mind as a human would. This is shown when EDI is arguing with Javik on the Normandy in ME2. I can't find a video on YouTube, but there have been a number of conversations in the ME games where it has been explained that synthetics do not feel, but rather act as though they do to allow organics to better understand them.KingZayd wrote...
JackumsD wrote...
It wasn't. AI are designed to display and act as organics do, as to more easily communicate with them. Legion explains this to Shepard in ME2, and I also think EDI elaborates on the topic in one of the games. Legion acted in self-defense of the geth, as it's programmed to do. Machines physically cannot feel emotions.KingZayd wrote...
You see emotions in EDI and the Geth.
Try stopping Legion from uploading the Reaper code, and then tell me that's not emotion.
This isn't part of the Geth's design.. you know why? Because that sort of thing would scare the Quarians.
Legion reacted emotionally. Sure, they weren't based on hormones etc, but there were emotions present. Either that, or he's faking emotions cynically, I suppose.. which would be quite sinister yet also cool.
Really? When EDI says she's willing to die for Joker, and that she hates the Reapers, that's not an emotional response? That "only now does (she) feel alive", that's not emotion? It's not the answer to an equation. It's a feeling.
The point is they're not "emotions". They may be some synthetic equivalent of organic emotion, as I stated previously, but they're not emotions as we know it, because synthetics cannot feel. And you just stated that, as I previously have also, so I don't understand why you're questioning me when we basically said the same thing?The Night Mammoth wrote...
JackumsD wrote...
Again,
synthetics word what they say and speak in a way that humans can
understand. For EDI, she's anti-Reapers because she's taken on the
traits of organic morality, and therefore perceives what the Reapers are
doing as "bad", and as a result uses the term "hate" to describe her
stance in regards to them in a way that translates easily to an organic,
due to the morality she's taken on from Shepard. Synthetics physically cannot feel emotion. It's impossible.
And the point is?
They can't physically feel it, but they evidently have a process within themselves that allows them to have emotion and react on it just like organics do.
I don't know, I'm not one of the ME writers.KingZayd wrote...
And why has she taken up traits of "organic morality"? She didn't calculate that they were the best. She reacted to those values emotionally. She has emotions.
And why is it impossible for Synthetics to have emotion?
Modifié par JackumsD, 29 juin 2012 - 03:40 .
JackumsD wrote...
The point is they're not "emotions". They may be some synthetic equivalent of organic emotion, as I stated previously, but they're not emotions as we know it, because synthetics cannot feel. And you just stated that, as I previously have also, so I don't understand why you're questioning me when we basically said the same thing?The Night Mammoth wrote...
JackumsD wrote...
Again,
synthetics word what they say and speak in a way that humans can
understand. For EDI, she's anti-Reapers because she's taken on the
traits of organic morality, and therefore perceives what the Reapers are
doing as "bad", and as a result uses the term "hate" to describe her
stance in regards to them in a way that translates easily to an organic,
due to the morality she's taken on from Shepard. Synthetics physically cannot feel emotion. It's impossible.
And the point is?
They can't physically feel it, but they evidently have a process within themselves that allows them to have emotion and react on it just like organics do.I don't know, I'm not one of the ME writers.KingZayd wrote...
And why has she taken up traits of "organic morality"? She didn't calculate that they were the best. She reacted to those values emotionally. She has emotions.
And why is it impossible for Synthetics to have emotion?
It's impossible for them to have emotions because it's impossible for constructs of metal and other iorganic materials to feel, as feeling is a chemical and biological function, which requires a nervous system. These are all things that EDI and the geth lack. Ergo, it's impossible. The fact that EDI isn't shown crying in the Control ending, yet is in the Synthesis ending, is a testament to this very fact. She gains the capacity to truly feel as organics do after the synthesis occurs (becoming part organic), but since it doesn't happen in the Control ending, she's shown standing there nice and composed. Synthetics, EDI, Legion, the geth (etc) do not feel emotion. They may adapt and and create some synthetic equivalent of emotion, but it's not true emotion. At least not until and unless the synthesis occurs.
It's no problem. I think we can all agree that EDI, Legion (etc) have developed a synthetic equivalent of organic emotion, though it's not physical as ours is, but rather some sort of evolution of their programming. Technically it wouldn't be emotion, as emotion is physical, but for the sake of keeping things simple, it can be referred to as such. It's the same as Legion taking Shep's N7 armour and EDI taking on the concept of morality.Mesina2 wrote...
^Well, I think I just made some poor wording on my part and created this debate on accident.
Modifié par JackumsD, 29 juin 2012 - 04:34 .
Emotion is physical by definition. If it's not physical, then it's not emotion. I don't understand why it's so difficult for you to comprehend that. "Emotion" is a human concept created to define chemical reactions within our body that result in physical feeling. Synthetics are incapable of physical feeling, therefore they cannot feel emotion. That's the same as saying "you can feel pain but not feel anything" or "you can see but have no vision". No, that's contradictory. You cannot have emotions and not feel, because emotions are feelings. And as I've stated, they may have developed a synthetic equivalent of emotion, though it's not physical like ours, and would technically not be emotion, though it's simply easier to refer to it as such.KingZayd wrote...
Emotion is exclusive to Carbon? Why? What basis do you have for saying that you need to have a similar chemistry and Biology to have emotion/something that is effectively emotion? What makes it any less valid as "emotion" than our chemical based version?
The Synthesis portrayed in the games is impossible, but you don't see to have problems with that.
The game shows the synthetics reacting emotionally so many times.
Modifié par JackumsD, 29 juin 2012 - 04:37 .
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