4520 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

JackumsD wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^Well, I think I just made some poor wording on my part and created this debate on accident.

It's no problem. I think we can all agree that EDI, Legion (etc) have developed a synthetic equivalent of organic emotion, though it's not physical as ours is, but rather some sort of evolution of their programming. Technically it wouldn't be emotion, as emotion is physical, but for the sake of keeping things simple, it can be referred to as such. It's the same as Legion taking Shep's N7 armour and EDI taking on the concept of morality. They become more human in their function and way of processing information.

Yeah, that.


It's best we can expect from synthetics to feel something.
It's by setting their own preferences, how EDI put it.

[Jackums]

Mesina2 wrote...

JackumsD wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

^Well, I think I just made some poor wording on my part and created this debate on accident.

It's no problem. I think we can all agree that EDI, Legion (etc) have developed a synthetic equivalent of organic emotion, though it's not physical as ours is, but rather some sort of evolution of their programming. Technically it wouldn't be emotion, as emotion is physical, but for the sake of keeping things simple, it can be referred to as such. It's the same as Legion taking Shep's N7 armour and EDI taking on the concept of morality. They become more human in their function and way of processing information.

Yeah, that.


It's best we can expect from synthetics to feel something.
It's by setting their own preferences, how EDI put it.

Yes, exactly.

Then your original statement was correct. There was just a misunderstanding due to wording.

[KingZayd]

JackumsD wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Emotion is exclusive to Carbon? Why? What basis do you have for saying that you need to have a similar chemistry and Biology to have emotion/something that is effectively emotion? What makes it any less valid as "emotion" than our chemical based version?

The Synthesis portrayed in the games is impossible, but you don't see to have problems with that.

The game shows the synthetics reacting emotionally so many times.

Emotion is physical by definition. If it's not physical, then it's not emotion. I don't understand why it's so difficult for you to comprehend that. "Emotion" is a human concept created to define chemical reactions within our body that result in physical feeling. Synthetics are incapable of physical feeling, therefore they cannot feel emotion. And as I've stated, they may have developed a synthetic equivalent of emotion, though it's not physical like ours, and would technically not be emotion, though it's simply easier to refer to it as such.

And Synthesis is not the topic here, so I don't understand why you're bringing it up in that sense. I mentioned it because it was relevant to EDI "feeling". No need to get hostile.

Life has certain requirements by definition too: Reproduction, Nutriton, Growth, Movement, etc. Clearly with the Synthetic "life", as portrayed in the series, these definitions are subject to change.

There are chemical reactions linked to your emotions, doesn't necessarily mean that it's IMPOSSIBLE to have emotions without those chemical reactions. I don't physically feel angry, when something irritates me. I think "I really don't like this", or something of that flavour. I'm pretty sure the "feeling" emotions thing is a term used because of the physical feelings you can get when experiencing INTENSE emotion.

You're the one that kept mentioning synthesis. I chose to address that, as it was part of your post and therefore a legitimate thing to comment on (or else why did you include it?). I'm not getting hostile. I'm asking why one thing why you'll accept one impossible thing, while rejecting this alleged impossible thing?

[Jackums]

KingZayd wrote...

Life has certain requirements by definition too: Reproduction, Nutriton, Growth, Movement, etc. Clearly with the Synthetic "life", as portrayed in the series, these definitions are subject to change.

There are chemical reactions linked to your emotions, doesn't necessarily mean that it's IMPOSSIBLE to have emotions without those chemical reactions. I don't physically feel angry, when something irritates me. I think "I really don't like this", or something of that flavour. I'm pretty sure the "feeling" emotions thing is a term used because of the physical feelings you can get when experiencing INTENSE emotion.

You're the one that kept mentioning synthesis. I chose to address that, as it was part of your post and therefore a legitimate thing to comment on (or else why did you include it?). I'm not getting hostile. I'm asking why one thing why you'll accept one impossible thing, while rejecting this alleged impossible thing?

Synthetics are not alive as organics are though, just as they do not have emotions as we do. They have their own synthetic equivalent of life and their own synthetic equivalent of emotion, which I've stated multiple times already. They aren't alive by our definition, and cannot feel emotion by our definition. They may have their own versions, but they aren't the same as ours, at all. It's scientifically impossible for inorganic material to feel. They cannot feel. It's that simple.

And emotions are physical. If you're not physically feeling it, then it's not an emotion. The word has come to be used more lightly, but if we get technical, it's not emotion unless you feel it, because the word emotion refers to physical feelings.

And no, you brought Synthesis up with an attitude as some form of attack in calling me hypocritical. I brought it up out of relevance to the point I was making. But to answer your question, the topic of emotion has a real life, scientific basis already. The synthesis presented in ME3 does not, therefore I cannot argue it. But I can debate the topic of emotion as it is a real thing, with real explanation.

[CroGamer002]

Another reason to pick Control.

[nitefyre410]

Mesina2 wrote...

Another reason to pick Control.

 

Sir, you just gain a follower and reblog  for that... 

 


THE FEELS:crying:

[Jackums]

Mesina2 wrote...

Another reason to pick Control.

I thought it was cute seeing the Reapers helping repair everything. These previously horrifying, terrible, ominous machines of death and genocide suddenly all with their glowy blue lights, flying around casually.

[CroGamer002]

JackumsD wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Another reason to pick Control.

I thought it was cute seeing the Reapers helping repair everything. These previously horrifying, terrible, ominous machines of death and genocide suddenly all with their glowy blue lights, flying around casually.

Wait, I think same thing happen with geth.

[Moshaaver]

I 100% support the Control Ending. And hugging all the aliens. I am 100% Paragon. I must save everyone, I cried over everyone I lost, and will not let any of them have died in vain. W

[Seival]

New variant of the last banner (hope size is fixed now):

[The Night Mammoth]

JackumsD wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

JackumsD wrote...

Again,
synthetics word what they say and speak in a way that humans can
understand. For EDI, she's anti-Reapers because she's taken on the
traits of organic morality, and therefore perceives what the Reapers are
doing as "bad", and as a result uses the term "hate" to describe her
stance in regards to them in a way that translates easily to an organic,
due to the morality she's taken on from Shepard. Synthetics physically cannot feel emotion. It's impossible.

And the point is? 

They can't physically feel it, but they evidently have a process within themselves that allows them to have emotion and react on it just like organics do. 

The point is they're not "emotions". They may be some synthetic equivalent of organic emotion, as I stated previously, but they're not emotions as we know it, because synthetics cannot feel. And you just stated that, as I previously have also, so I don't understand why you're questioning me when we basically said the same thing?

I don't see the point of the argument, really. They don't 'feel' but they evidently have emotions of some description. 

What's the importance of them having emotions or not? 

[Seival]

Seival wrote...

New variant of the last banner (hope size is fixed now):

Fixed border's bug:

[Seival]

Big-Boss687 wrote...

Seival wrote...

Testing new banner:

Can you make it smaller?
This is the perfect size:

 

Thanks, your tip on the banner's size was very helpfull

[Seival]

By the way... I made a new forum avatar and submitted it with a "DA:O character" like before. Character is already there, but the avatar still isn't available (waiting 24 hours already). Any tips on how to speed up the process?

[mass perfection]

Seival wrote...

By the way... I made a new forum avatar and submitted it with a "DA:O character" like before. Character is already there, but the avatar still isn't available (waiting 24 hours already). Any tips on how to speed up the process?

Sorry,don't know any.

[Karolus_V]

The cool speech...(in my version , it was femshep)....it alone made it 200% better than before.

[Seival]

About thoughts on synthetic emotions...

I think that synthetics have feelings, but they work differently than organic feelings:
...Organic feelings = chemistry.
...Synthetic feelings = physics.

In other words, organics can suffer or inspire by feelings, synthetics can't. But that doesn't mean that synthetic feelings are not real. They are real, but they just work differently.

Modifié par Seival, 29 juin 2012 - 09:35 .

[mass perfection]

Seival wrote...

About thoughts on synthetic emotions...

I think that synthetics have feelings, but they work differently than organic feelings:
...Organic feelings = chemistry.
...Synthetic feelings = physics.

In other words, organics can suffer or inspire by feelings, synthetics can't. But that doesn't mean that synthetic feelings are not real. They are real, but they just work differently.

Can you make a banner that says "I will create a future with limitless possibilities"?

Modifié par mass perfection, 29 juin 2012 - 09:37 .

[CroGamer002]

Seival wrote...

By the way... I made a new forum avatar and submitted it with a "DA:O character" like before. Character is already there, but the avatar still isn't available (waiting 24 hours already). Any tips on how to speed up the process?

Try again.

[KingZayd]

JackumsD wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Life has certain requirements by definition too: Reproduction, Nutriton, Growth, Movement, etc. Clearly with the Synthetic "life", as portrayed in the series, these definitions are subject to change.

There are chemical reactions linked to your emotions, doesn't necessarily mean that it's IMPOSSIBLE to have emotions without those chemical reactions. I don't physically feel angry, when something irritates me. I think "I really don't like this", or something of that flavour. I'm pretty sure the "feeling" emotions thing is a term used because of the physical feelings you can get when experiencing INTENSE emotion.

You're the one that kept mentioning synthesis. I chose to address that, as it was part of your post and therefore a legitimate thing to comment on (or else why did you include it?). I'm not getting hostile. I'm asking why one thing why you'll accept one impossible thing, while rejecting this alleged impossible thing?

Synthetics are not alive as organics are though, just as they do not have emotions as we do. They have their own synthetic equivalent of life and their own synthetic equivalent of emotion, which I've stated multiple times already. They aren't alive by our definition, and cannot feel emotion by our definition. They may have their own versions, but they aren't the same as ours, at all. It's scientifically impossible for inorganic material to feel. They cannot feel. It's that simple.

And emotions are physical. If you're not physically feeling it, then it's not an emotion. The word has come to be used more lightly, but if we get technical, it's not emotion unless you feel it, because the word emotion refers to physical feelings.

And no, you brought Synthesis up with an attitude as some form of attack in calling me hypocritical. I brought it up out of relevance to the point I was making. But to answer your question, the topic of emotion has a real life, scientific basis already. The synthesis presented in ME3 does not, therefore I cannot argue it. But I can debate the topic of emotion as it is a real thing, with real explanation.

And why is synthetic life, not equivalent to organic life? One is based on Carbon. One is based on other things. They aren't alive according an arbitrary definition. They cannot have emotions according to an arbitrary definition. It's just as valid as the Reapers deciding that Organics and Synthetics aren't alive, because our "life" is different to that of these huge synthetic ships with organic minds.

So what does anger feel like? Where would I feel it? What does happiness feel like? Where would I feel it?

You mentioned synthesis, and I commented on it. I wasn't attacking you and calling you hypocritical. I was saying you accepted one thing that was impossible, while rejecing another because you say it's impossible. I wasn't accusing you of being a hypocrite (implying deliberate use of double standards), I was pointing out that you were (hopefully unintentionally), using a double standard.

Modifié par KingZayd, 29 juin 2012 - 09:41 .

[nitefyre410]

Seival wrote...

About thoughts on synthetic emotions...

I think that synthetics have feelings, but they work differently than organic feelings:
...Organic feelings = chemistry.
...Synthetic feelings = physics.

In other words, organics can suffer or inspire by feelings, synthetics can't. But that doesn't mean that synthetic feelings are not real. They are real, but they just work differently.

 

^ this..

Whats more  important is that there is understanding of why the emotion such as love, etc, etc are important and value. Now that they feeling them in the exact same way. 

[Ageless Face]

Seival wrote...

By the way... I made a new forum avatar and submitted it with a "DA:O character" like before. Character is already there, but the avatar still isn't available (waiting 24 hours already). Any tips on how to speed up the process?

You need to delete the original DA avatar in manage characters (profile/games/DA:origins. It should be on the top left) , then save the game when the avatar is already there as a portrait(don't change your char outfits, BTW). Then you should wait for a few moments. It should be there. 

Hoped I helped.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 29 juin 2012 - 09:47 .

[Seival]

Karolus_V wrote...

The cool speech...(in my version , it was femshep)....it alone made it 200% better than before.

Well... Actually the Control ending (and all other endings) remained the same after EC. Original endings were just really hard to understand... I had to spend two months thinking about them constantly. And managed to understand almost everything even before the EC. So all I've seen in EC was not really surprize for me. And I have to admit that understanding process was really interesting

...I'm sorry, no offence. I really don't think you were not capable of understanding. I think you just didn't want to, like many other people here.

[nitefyre410]

Seival wrote...

Karolus_V wrote...

The cool speech...(in my version , it was femshep)....it alone made it 200% better than before.

Well... Actually the Control ending (and all other endings) remained the same after EC. Original endings were just really hard to understand... I had to spend two months thinking about them constantly. And managed to understand almost everything even before the EC. So all I've seen in EC was not really surprize for me. And I have to admit that understanding process was really interesting

...I'm sorry, no offence. I really don't think you were not capable of understanding. I think you just didn't want to, like many other people here.

  

I am not going say that I completely understood the ending  in the original ending.  Even through it was the choice I was always learning towards. It just so vague at the point I could not eve make heads or tails of it. 

[KingZayd]

Seival wrote...

About thoughts on synthetic emotions...

I think that synthetics have feelings, but they work differently than organic feelings:
...Organic feelings = chemistry.
...Synthetic feelings = physics.

In other words, organics can suffer or inspire by feelings, synthetics can't. But that doesn't mean that synthetic feelings are not real. They are real, but they just work differently.

I've disagreed a lot with you in this thread and others, I agree with you on this.

Although Chemistry and Physics aren't really so separate.