689 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

o Ventus wrote...
What does this mean for the real world? A higher crime rate and death rate. It's been proven throughout history that if you give people power (Doesn't matter what kind of power), they tend to think they're invincible and can do anything.

Except everyone will be upgraded. No one is left behind so, the concernes that exist in "Deus:Ex" won't apply in a post-Synthesis galaxy.

[MisterJB]

o Ventus wrote...
Reaper tech melted off half of TIM's face.

It also gave him the ability to control the bodies of Anderson and Shepard.

[Archontor]

MisterJB wrote...

Archontor wrote...
I'm so unimaginative as to notice we have machines to do that for us.

Such as the geth.

 

Forklifts actually.

Edit: driven by geth. They need jobs too.

Modifié par Archontor, 27 mai 2012 - 09:30 .

[Grimwick]

MisterJB wrote...

o Ventus wrote...
What does this mean for the real world? A higher crime rate and death rate. It's been proven throughout history that if you give people power (Doesn't matter what kind of power), they tend to think they're invincible and can do anything.

Except everyone will be upgraded. No one is left behind so, the concernes that exist in "Deus:Ex" won't apply in a post-Synthesis galaxy.

Irrelevant because yet again:

new DNA =/= upgrading of senses/reflexes/any transhumanist ideas

[o Ventus]

MisterJB wrote...

o Ventus wrote...
What does this mean for the real world? A higher crime rate and death rate. It's been proven throughout history that if you give people power (Doesn't matter what kind of power), they tend to think they're invincible and can do anything.

Except everyone will be upgraded. No one is left behind so, the concernes that exist in "Deus:Ex" won't apply in a post-Synthesis galaxy.

Does nothing to change my point. Hybrid people can still die, and hybrid people are still people. If it isn't common knowledge that people tend to be stupid when given power, then I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

[MisterJB]

Grimwick wrote...
Non-sentience = death as far as an individual is concerned. being preserved as reapers means losing your sentience. That is death by any definition. In fact, it's even biological death. Saying that the reapers aren't killing people is downright wrong.

The Reapers are sentient. How can we say those organic minds aren't preserved as well?

[Vox Draco]

It is amazing when I read some posts here or in other threads...amazing that mere five seconds have turned a lot of gamers into Reaper-sympathizers/understanders/supporters...

Without these five minutes of text from the catalyst no one would ever have had the idea that synthesis or control could be anything but bad and silly. Before these five minutes the majority of players was all about destroying the Reapers, saving the galaxy and avenge all the liquified people...

Five minutes, a character out of nowhere and a problem that has no basis in logic is enough to make so many people forget what they had been fighting for (and against) so many hours prior. And it is amazing how they desperatly try to justify this simple truth, how they actively deny what they have experienced, seen with their own eyes, and they rather believe that what the starchild has to offer is beneficial to the galaxy...instead of remembering what all of Shepards friends and allies, as well as Shepard herself, had said about the Reapers all the time...and THIS is the only ecidence that should be important making your decision...

I should stop reading all these posts. They have nothing really new to add (me neither), and some (though not all, there are sensible supporters of control or synthesis) people have truly disgusting points of views, though I won't call names here...I should go

[o Ventus]

MisterJB wrote...

Grimwick wrote...
Non-sentience = death as far as an individual is concerned. being preserved as reapers means losing your sentience. That is death by any definition. In fact, it's even biological death. Saying that the reapers aren't killing people is downright wrong.

The Reapers are sentient. How can we say those organic minds aren't preserved as well?

If the Reapers were the combined minds of trillions of people, they wouldn't be referring to themselves in the first person. As an organization, they use pronouns like "we" and "us", but every single time a Reaper is talking about itself, it says "I" or "me". Legion (also a gestalt intelligence) doesn't do this, does it?

Modifié par o Ventus, 27 mai 2012 - 09:33 .

[Ji99saw]

o Ventus wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

So we resort to name calling now?  Once more, Losing a few casualties in war and Genocide are completly different. It doesn't matter who he was talking to the reaper threat was still very much present and you tried to make it seem as though it was not. And by the way Genocide is the complete oppisite of Sheps and everyone elses beliefs throught ou the entie trilogy even the reapers preseve life in the reaper ship. But if you believe that Commiting Genocide To Prevent Genocide is right then that Speaks volumes about you.

Oh please. You're another one of those idiots that thinks the Reapers honestly preserve people by melting them down and liquefying their brains? That doesn't only go against established biology and philosophy (You can't carry thoughts, ideas, or memories without a BRAIN), it's also a poor attempt to make a formerly cold and ruthless enemy sympathetic. That'd be like saying Hitler went through with the Holocaust because Jewish people picked on him when he was a child. Did you not listen to Mordin in ME2? Or Shepard on Rannoch? If there's anything left of the species inside the Reapers, it's NOT them anymore. "No art, replaced by tech, no glands, replaced by tech, no soul, replaced by tech." Shepard even says "Those races died thousands of years ago! You killed them! We're letting them rest in peace." The only "genocide" being committed is against the geth, but you technically did the same thing when you rewrote them and slaughtered a couple thousand of them over the course of the 3 games.

I'll just ignore the fact that you answered only half my points, but whatever.

Also, prior to just now, I didn't call you any names.

It's almost as if I can physically see your stupidity from my moniter. Once more this is SciFi and anything can happen, even Javik said that DNA are genetic Markers that hold experience, memories, ideas and that's why he knows so much about the Normandy crew without ever meeting them or in your case without having there brains. . Cold?, Ruthless?, Hitler? I highly doubt something as old and powerful as the reapers has any sort of hate or vicious intent and they Beleive that they are doing the right thing in order to preserve the galaxy see for everyone in the future and not just the ones hold the power right now. As far as mordin he was talking about Husks (collecters) and what Reapers are different. I don't like what the reapers do but I know it's not coplete Genocide and that species DNA is preserved forever. As far as Shepard is concerned he Auto Dialogue his way throgh the game and that's not what my Shep would say. Plenty of times Shep talked for himself and the player did not agree and since shep is whatever the player wants him to be that argument is invalid

"Cold" and "ruthless" do not imply hatred or vicious intent, so congratulations on the English fail.

"Science fiction" doesn't give you a free pass to let you do whatever the hell you want, either. If you establish a set of rules, like ME did in the first game, you must follow those rules. You don't see people just flying to and from work by themselves do you? Or using contemporary firearms? Or breathing fire? It's called "Science fiction[/i] for a reason.

Javik is invalid, since he's the product of said science fiction. It's impossible to relay information via touch, unless the protheans have memory neurons in their fingers and not their brains (which is not the case).

And yes, Shepard is sculpted by the player, but only to an extent. The auto dialogue, as much as I despise it, only asserts this. You have only as much control over Shepard as his/her backstory and the conversations that allow for dialogue wheels. Everything else is set in stone and concrete.

LOL, yes because they are  cold and ruthless because they can completly destroy organics at any time, and are they are the only reasons organics were uplifited.?


They can do whatever they want with SciFi as long as people are willing beleive in the Lore and it's their IP

So now you right off wholecharacters because they debunk your argument? Nice try

You pretty said it here just like we have choices at the end depending on what we think is right. IF shperad would have said that he hates synthesis (lets pretend through auto dialogue) and the player chooses syntheisis at the end the dialogue becomes invalid and shep is ultimitly changed no matter what he said

[Sisterofshane]

MisterJB wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...
Previous discussions I have had with you before would suggest otherwise.
Don't come in here and accuse any of us of being close-minded.  There are a multitude of different reasons we would choose the ending, the least of which being that we reject the  "close-minded" philosophy of the being who would claim it to be a non-solution to his imaginery problem.

And yet, that is what Destroy is. I will not insult you; which is far more courtesy than some Anti-Synthesis have shown; but I also won't pull any punches regarding this ending.

Then you are also being close minded.  You cannot accept that every ending has some merit, as well as some negative consequences.  I have been on other threads, and I see the positive in all the endings.  I chose destroy because I believe it leaves the least to chance - it allows for the galalxy to develop in the way that it was meant to.  I believe in the fundamental good of the every type of life - organic and synthetic. I believe that is is not the catalyst's right, nor my right, to force change upon anybody.  I will not leave the universe with more uncertainty.

[dreamgazer]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Why is it relevant? Because choosing to destroy could/would effectively end your life, thus creating a potential negative, worst-case product of the choice. We've come full-circle.

Elaborate.

Don't know how I can further.  Process my previous explanations again, because they'd sound familiar if we proceeded.

The context of the conversation allows one to logically assume that destroying synthetic components could destroy Shepard's synthetic components, when that's, at best, an unreliable variable.  The catalyst mentioning this at all revolves around the notion that Shepard has awareness of his/her mortality, and has an active concern over it, thus proving the statement in the context of the dialogue as a reference to a negative, unreliable byproduct of the decision that would give Shepard pause.  

[Xellith]

MisterJB wrote...

o Ventus wrote...
What does this mean for the real world? A higher crime rate and death rate. It's been proven throughout history that if you give people power (Doesn't matter what kind of power), they tend to think they're invincible and can do anything.

Except everyone will be upgraded. No one is left behind so, the concernes that exist in "Deus:Ex" won't apply in a post-Synthesis galaxy.

The point is to preserve organics right? You are gonna preserve all organics by rewriting them so they arnt organics anymore?  Riiiiiiiiight...

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

I see control and synthesis as an unfair result of a whole larger Cause, one that is in Galactic Scale. Choosing Control and/or Synthesis is not what everyone wanted. The whole galaxy depended on you to stop them indefinitely. By not choosing destroy you let them down. With control, they see the Reapers leave, and they will live in constant fear another nightmare. With Synthesis, you cause widespread confusion. People will see themselves as half synthetic and panic. They didn't want this. If destroy is not chosen, those who sacrificed themselves to stop the Reaper Threat forever would have died for nothing, especially Mordin, Legion, Anderson, and those who sacrificed their lives to save Earth and what was left of Humanity.


And after what the Reapers did, why should we forgive them in the last minute, at the final stand? 

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 27 mai 2012 - 09:42 .

[frylock23]

o Ventus wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Grimwick wrote...
Non-sentience = death as far as an individual is concerned. being preserved as reapers means losing your sentience. That is death by any definition. In fact, it's even biological death. Saying that the reapers aren't killing people is downright wrong.

The Reapers are sentient. How can we say those organic minds aren't preserved as well?

If the Reapers were the combined minds of trillions of people, they wouldn't be referring to themselves in the first person. As an organization, they use pronouns like "we" and "us", but every single time a Reaper is talking about itself, it says "I" or "me". Legion (also a gestalt intelligence) doesn't do this, does it?

No, Legion doesn't until the very end when it has fully utilized the Reaper code that allows it to differentiate itself from the Geth consensus and become an individual.

Ah, irony.

[Grimwick]

MisterJB wrote...

Grimwick wrote...
Non-sentience = death as far as an individual is concerned. being preserved as reapers means losing your sentience. That is death by any definition. In fact, it's even biological death. Saying that the reapers aren't killing people is downright wrong.

The Reapers are sentient. How can we say those organic minds aren't preserved as well?

Why would the sentient race that has been processed in the previous cycle then do exactly the same thing to the next cycle?

And for a start you have no evidence that their sentience is at all retained. There is overall more evidence that they are dead than alive:

1) In ME2 they are liquified as part of the process = pretty dead.
2) Reapers all speak through 1 unified voice and opinion. If a reaper is a collaboration of the thousands of sentient minds then this would not occur.
3) The original organic would have undergone biological death at some point.

Start providing your evidence that they are all alive and thinking in there please. The proof is your burden.

[MisterJB]

Sisterofshane wrote...
Actually, what it (the genophage) did is force the Krogan to change their culture or face extinction.

They were uplifted at a time when their culture was not ready to be involved in a galactic civilization. (They were still focusing on killing each other, why would they care about other species in the galactic community?)

The genophage took away the one thing that stabilized their population.  Their quick breeding is the only thing that offset their violent culture.  It stands to reason that they would then need to become less violent in order to keep themselves from going extinct.

You see the beginning of such reform with Wrex and his solution to unite the clans.  Eve further perpetuates this reform by using her influence to support cultural rebirth (further uniting/pacifiying the Krogans).

That is what the genophage should have done. Unfortunately, while there are exceptions like Wrex, it lead to krogan to become even more violent because they couldn't see a future for their species.

[Ji99saw]

Vox Draco wrote...

It is amazing when I read some posts here or in other threads...amazing that mere five seconds have turned a lot of gamers into Reaper-sympathizers/understanders/supporters...

Without these five minutes of text from the catalyst no one would ever have had the idea that synthesis or control could be anything but bad and silly. Before these five minutes the majority of players was all about destroying the Reapers, saving the galaxy and avenge all the liquified people...

Five minutes, a character out of nowhere and a problem that has no basis in logic is enough to make so many people forget what they had been fighting for (and against) so many hours prior. And it is amazing how they desperatly try to justify this simple truth, how they actively deny what they have experienced, seen with their own eyes, and they rather believe that what the starchild has to offer is beneficial to the galaxy...instead of remembering what all of Shepards friends and allies, as well as Shepard herself, had said about the Reapers all the time...and THIS is the only ecidence that should be important making your decision...

I should stop reading all these posts. They have nothing really new to add (me neither), and some (though not all, there are sensible supporters of control or synthesis) people have truly disgusting points of views, though I won't call names here...I should go

Cool story bro, by the way what did we see with our own eyes? The reapers from one point of view without any explination we could only assume they were monsters but when we got more insight we realised it is more complex "than kill them all". And we have Proof Quarians Vs. Geth had no one involved they would have destroyed the Quarians or they would have died out on ships

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Forgiving the Reapers and sparing them would've been like Harry Potter forgiving Voldemort, and sparing him.

[o Ventus]

Ji99saw wrote...

LOL, yes because they are  cold and ruthless because they can completly destroy organics at any time, and are they are the only reasons organics were uplifited.?


They can do whatever they want with SciFi as long as people are willing beleive in the Lore and it's their IP

So now you right off wholecharacters because they debunk your argument? Nice try

You pretty said it here just like we have choices at the end depending on what we think is right. IF shperad would have said that he hates synthesis (lets pretend through auto dialogue) and the player chooses syntheisis at the end the dialogue becomes invalid and shep is ultimitly changed no matter what he said

Ruthless (adj): having or showing no compassion for others.

Cold (adj): lacking in passion, emotion, enthusiasm, ardor, etc etc.

Neither of those imply "vicious hatred", because hatred is, in itself, an emotion.

I'm not "righting" (Another English fail, congratulations) off characters because of anything. I'm dismissing their otherwise scientifically impossible traits (In a science fiction story, no less) as an unreliable source of information.

Shepard performing an action that invalidates his/her opinion is NOT Shepard changing their mind on something. If Shepard had said "Y'know what? I actually kinda like this whole Synthesis thing", then his mind was changed.

[Sisterofshane]

MisterJB wrote...

Grimwick wrote...
Non-sentience = death as far as an individual is concerned. being preserved as reapers means losing your sentience. That is death by any definition. In fact, it's even biological death. Saying that the reapers aren't killing people is downright wrong.

The Reapers are sentient. How can we say those organic minds aren't preserved as well?

If you believe as I do, based upon their origins and the conversation with the Catalyst, I do not believe they are any more "sentient" then the average indoctrinated organic/husk.

They cannot, and have never, thought for themselves.  They blindly follow and accept the doctrine of whomever seems to be in control of them.  They are thus perversions of their former races - and it is much kinder to destroy them then allow them to try to live with the truth of the things they have done.

[Icinix]

You can pick synthesis all you want, but the second we're all synthetic / organic - me and my buddies are still going to keep shooting at the Reapers.

If they don't shoot back, all the better. We'll hunt every single one down.

We'll shoot anyone who tries to defend the Reapers too.

The galaxy will be a better place.

Modifié par Icinix, 27 mai 2012 - 09:45 .

[Jamie9]

Vox Draco wrote...

It is amazing when I read some posts here or in other threads...amazing that mere five seconds have turned a lot of gamers into Reaper-sympathizers/understanders/supporters...

Without these five minutes of text from the catalyst no one would ever have had the idea that synthesis or control could be anything but bad and silly. Before these five minutes the majority of players was all about destroying the Reapers, saving the galaxy and avenge all the liquified people...

Five minutes, a character out of nowhere and a problem that has no basis in logic is enough to make so many people forget what they had been fighting for (and against) so many hours prior. And it is amazing how they desperatly try to justify this simple truth, how they actively deny what they have experienced, seen with their own eyes, and they rather believe that what the starchild has to offer is beneficial to the galaxy...instead of remembering what all of Shepards friends and allies, as well as Shepard herself, had said about the Reapers all the time...and THIS is the only ecidence that should be important making your decision...

I should stop reading all these posts. They have nothing really new to add (me neither), and some (though not all, there are sensible supporters of control or synthesis) people have truly disgusting points of views, though I won't call names here...I should go

Hello there! I picked control, but have the virtue of being able to see many points of view. (I'd make a good profiler for the FBI )

I, and many others throughout BSN, pick control because it maintains the status quo. It doesn't wipe out any races or homogenise the galaxy. It allows for the possiblity of the Relays being rebuilt. And control also allows you the possibility of destroying the Reapers through self-sabotage.

If a Paragon picks it, it can seemingly be a more paragon version of Destroy. I still disagree with TIM. He wouldn't use it and then get rid of it. He'd keep hold of the power and use it to subjagate people.

[Sisterofshane]

MisterJB wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...
Actually, what it (the genophage) did is force the Krogan to change their culture or face extinction.

They were uplifted at a time when their culture was not ready to be involved in a galactic civilization. (They were still focusing on killing each other, why would they care about other species in the galactic community?)

The genophage took away the one thing that stabilized their population.  Their quick breeding is the only thing that offset their violent culture.  It stands to reason that they would then need to become less violent in order to keep themselves from going extinct.

You see the beginning of such reform with Wrex and his solution to unite the clans.  Eve further perpetuates this reform by using her influence to support cultural rebirth (further uniting/pacifiying the Krogans).

That is what the genophage should have done. Unfortunately, while there are exceptions like Wrex, it lead to krogan to become even more violent because they couldn't see a future for their species.

You can't even prove that, just like you couldn't prove that the turians were trying to make us into a "client" race.

[TheWerdna]

iakus wrote...

 How about us "all the endings are terrible" crowd?  

Thats a given. Destroy is just much better then the other two by comparison. Its still terrible, just not as bad.

[Jamie9]

MASSEFFECTfanforlife101 wrote...

Forgiving the Reapers and sparing them would've been like Harry Potter forgiving Voldemort, and sparing him.

Funnily enough, I didn't like the ending of that book. Was way too abrupt considering the build-up. SPOILERS FOR DEATHLY HALLOWS (like anyone hasn't read it):

I also hate the fact that Harry comes back to life. If you kill a character, keep them dead, it's just really cheap to bring them back.