689 réponses à ce sujet

[Ketten]

I admit, first time around I chose green because I didn't know what the hell I was doing.

But after the cutscene I reloaded that end game so fast, my computer froze up for a second. Destroy all the way.

[alec1898]

Destroy just because of the disgustingly cheerful tone that the catalyst was talking about the other two endings with after blatantly lying to my face.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

Welcome! Welcome! Nice to see more Supporters!

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 28 mai 2012 - 07:06 .

[balance5050]

True Shepards always choose destroy.

[Lookout1390]

Give all of yourselves a pat on the back for making the logical right decision.

Not giving into the Reaper's demands!

HELL YEAH

[Vigilant111]

OP we think it u say it

It has come to my attention that the endings debate has die down with a clear winner *cough Destroy *cough, here is what I have gathered from posting and reading posts on this forum for the last few days:

Synthesis is both impractical and immoral in my opinion

I think the writers have overly simplified and make abstract the idea "To achieve peace by the joining of two peoples" by simply pressing the green button, the idea is not the issue, it is an excellent ideal, but the way to do it is, exchange of ideas should be preferred over simply joining minds or bodies...there must be a dialogue/reconciliation in acknowledgement of different values and cultures, there must be acceptance... I mean how come peace doesn't last for arranged marriage between royal family members of different kingdoms? because they never really accepted each other, they are just buying time to build strength. Synthesis may be possible for simpler beings, but synthetics and organics are not simple, they are not designed for synthesis like a jigsaw puzzle

As with control, boy that is just playing with fire, why would a higher being submit to lower being's control is beyond me, I would feel a lot more comfortable if the Catalyst is an independent party that does not control the reapers.

For the above being said, I still believe that other gamers are entitled their opinion and respective endings, that is what democracy is.

[Archontor]

MisterJB wrote...

Archontor wrote...

when it says they destroy their militaries and then form a client race it's possible this is simply what the turian culture that now represents them all did in their ancient past hence why there is only one government eventualy they all just became turian Hierarchy members.

And yet, we witnessed it on Shanxi. Destroy the military, systematically exterminate the population until they submit and then occupy.

Now it's symbiosis, the volus provided goods and services that they requested and the turians obliged and protected them in exchange for something they neeed. It's interspecies cooperation, something quite alien to you.

A slave trader will also protect its merchandise. Somehow, I doubt if the volus requested independence, the turians would be willing to comply.

It is not giving up human sovereingty, the volus have heir own embassy for their own government.

An embassy that has no real power since it can't affect any decisions the Council makes and their own government has to pay taxes to the turians.
How benevolent of the turians.

The fact we can pioneer new technologies suggest only the role we would largely be known for. As scientists, a dignified well paying profession.

So, you would be happy if humanity was simply known as the scientists of the turian race rather than what it is? The fastest rising species in the history of our Cycle?
What the hell is wrong with you?

They demonstrably did not leave us to burn, when shep asks them to help on Menae with their burning homeworld above them they say that they can't help in the sense that it isn't physically possible, which is true, the only ships leaving at that point are stealth ones and the turians can't ship an army out with the few if any they possess so they need something to weaken the reapers.

I won't blame the turians for putting Pallaven before Earth, I would have done the same in their position. However, after we got the krogan to help, they still did nothing to help humanity until the Citadel was in orbit of Earth.
Then, they came along and acted as if they were doing us a favor when in fact, the only reason they were on Sol was for Pallaven, not Earth.

Same thing for Irune and they still could have let the volus die and use those extra troops to protect actual turian worlds.

They did not sacrifice a single turian world for Irune, that much is certain.

There are instances of help in the interim,

The only I can think of was asari commandos evacuating Tiptree. Apart from that, humanity was abandoned to burn so as to buy time for the aliens.

the elite operatives in MP

MP is not canon. Otherwise, I'm fairly certain we would have already exhausted the human population with Husks, Cannibals and Cerberus troops.

and the turian participating in a mixed-species squad on Cyone.

Because they needed it. Same logic as "Priority:Earth"

Shanxi was led by the Turian equivalent of the space police and got out of hand due to one rogue leader.

It dosen't matter if you doubt the turians would let them go, the volus asked for it and haven't complained so it's unlikely to come up.

Your right the Volus embassy has little direct power just like the Hanar and Elcor--but as leaders of the glactic economy their financial control is unsurpassed, something they couldn't acomplish without Turian protection to drive away pirating ventures. And yes they pay taxes to the turians the same way a portion of your taxes go to funding the millitary.

We wouldn't just be scientists, we seem able to rival the turians in most terms it's more likely we would be best known for that, the same way asari are best known as diplomats but the majority of them aren't. And why wouldn't we rise in power, the compined might of turian and human fleets and trading resources in conjunction with volus economic accumen would be enough to rival the citadel on it's own.

you just didn't read what I said, they can't provide imediate military support because the Reapers have effectively gained control of the relays and palaven with all of the troops and resources stationed there.

No they didn't seem to lose any high priority worlds but that dosen't mean they couldn't just leave Irune and use those troops to bolster their own defences.

MP is partially cannon in the basic concept of allied troops holding an area that's why Hackett points it out at the end of the N7 missions to that planet.

And yes they needed cyone, the same way everyone needed cyone but you didn't see any asari protecting the planet in their territory do you? The turians would have been well within their rights to just let the asari and humans retake it and then strike a benaficial deal with volus support.

[kookie28]

So we hate the endings but now we have support threads for the endings we hate?

[alec1898]

kookie28 wrote...

So we hate the endings but now we have support threads for the endings we hate?

The lesser of the three evils, essentially.

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

kookie28 wrote...

So we hate the endings but now we have support threads for the endings we hate?

I don't hate the Ending I have (Best Possible Destroy Ending), and I cannot wait for the CE.

[kookie28]

alec1898 wrote...

kookie28 wrote...

So we hate the endings but now we have support threads for the endings we hate?

The lesser of the three evils, essentially.

We'd better watch out for those mean old Control and Synthesis people who always hijack our destroy threads.

And compare us to ****s and make ridiculous claims about raping the galaxy and whatnot.

Wait . . .

[robertm2]

Anything that takes out the reapers and the geth at the same time is gravy to me. edi is just acceptable losses.

[Vigilant111]

robertm2 wrote...

Anything that takes out the reapers and the geth at the same time is gravy to me. edi is just acceptable losses.

Still I really hope Catalyst was lying about killing the Geth and EDI

[Mystius]

 I don't know if anyone of you have already said this, but have it occurred to you all that maybe the Citadel and the Mass Relays HAS to be DESTROYED? I didn't think of that at first, but now I kinda think that is for the best. Sure, millions dead on the Citadel and galactic travel crippled but the galaxy is finally FREE of the Reaper threat.

For millions of years, the galaxy have evolved along Reaper path as it was the most convenient path to go, easy and quick. But now, they are forced to develop/improve their own tech for travel and such, they are now independent and free. I kinda always felt after the discovery of the Citadel as being of Reaper tech that EVERYONE should get as far away as possible from there and establish the Galactic government on some planet or something. Evacute the Citadel and then destroy it in some way. 

I picked Destroy on my first playthrough as I felt that the other choices went against everything Shepard had fought for. Sure, EDI and the Geth dies (or does they?) but sad as it is, it have to be necessary. The Reapers must be destroyed! They need to pay for all the murders they have committed during millions of years and all the people they have transformed into abominations of themselves! Sadly, but that warrants an immediate execution from me and my Shepard. Everything else would be just betrayal. 

Oh, and another thing: I think preserving the GENETIC DIVERSITY is the best for the galaxy, judging over what both Mordin and Javik tells you. CONTROL is something the Illusive Man wanted, one of Shepard's enemies and SYNTHESIS is what Saren wanted, another one of Shepard's enemies. Both were indoctrinated and killed themselves upon discovery of this, judging on how you handled it. Too me, that just puts everything else except Destroy in the "NO" category. The rest of the choices are just too ambiguous to be anything valid so...

DESTROY all the way! 

[Vigilant111]

Mystius wrote...

 I don't know if anyone of you have already said this, but have it occurred to you all that maybe the Citadel and the Mass Relays HAS to be DESTROYED? I didn't think of that at first, but now I kinda think that is for the best. Sure, millions dead on the Citadel and galactic travel crippled but the galaxy is finally FREE of the Reaper threat.

For millions of years, the galaxy have evolved along Reaper path as it was the most convenient path to go, easy and quick. But now, they are forced to develop/improve their own tech for travel and such, they are now independent and free. I kinda always felt after the discovery of the Citadel as being of Reaper tech that EVERYONE should get as far away as possible from there and establish the Galactic government on some planet or something. Evacute the Citadel and then destroy it in some way. 

I picked Destroy on my first playthrough as I felt that the other choices went against everything Shepard had fought for. Sure, EDI and the Geth dies (or does they?) but sad as it is, it have to be necessary. The Reapers must be destroyed! They need to pay for all the murders they have committed during millions of years and all the people they have transformed into abominations of themselves! Sadly, but that warrants an immediate execution from me and my Shepard. Everything else would be just betrayal. 

Oh, and another thing: I think preserving the GENETIC DIVERSITY is the best for the galaxy, judging over what both Mordin and Javik tells you. CONTROL is something the Illusive Man wanted, one of Shepard's enemies and SYNTHESIS is what Saren wanted, another one of Shepard's enemies. Both were indoctrinated and killed themselves upon discovery of this, judging on how you handled it. Too me, that just puts everything else except Destroy in the "NO" category. The rest of the choices are just too ambiguous to be anything valid so...

DESTROY all the way! 

The question is whether galactic cultural exchange is worth falling into reaper traps like mass relays

[Mystius]

Vigilant111 wrote...

The question is whether galactic cultural exchange is worth falling into reaper traps like mass relays

The Mass Relays helped bring the Galaxy together but I think it is time to let them go and find other ways. 

[Vubica]

I destroy them Every time cuz I just refuse to believe it will mess up all synthetics.And IMHO. Either Control or synthesis is kind of a Defeat on a ideological level witch depending on your para/renegade and choices you all ready disproved. All tough I find that on a again ideological level we always loose, because we bow to their reasoning that we can not co-exist and that if we were to continue living we must do it without the technologies that shaped our civilisation. So I don't Know I like to destroy cuz
1.Its the only 1 they present as bad wich is tempting, it might be a writing slipup in a attempt to elaborate the choice but meh...
2.Kind of a last act of defiance thowards them, I was sure shep will die After mars...

[Vigilant111]

Mystius wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

The question is whether galactic cultural exchange is worth falling into reaper traps like mass relays

The Mass Relays helped bring the Galaxy together but I think it is time to let them go and find other ways. 

Agreed, it would be good if organics can develop independent jump drives like the harbingers'

[Mystius]

Vigilant111 wrote...

Mystius wrote...

Vigilant111 wrote...

The question is whether galactic cultural exchange is worth falling into reaper traps like mass relays

The Mass Relays helped bring the Galaxy together but I think it is time to let them go and find other ways. 

Agreed, it would be good if organics can develop independent jump drives like the harbingers'

...and synthetics can always be rebuilt. They're machines after all.  

[Seival]

 As I said, I dont like Destroy ending... But I think this thread deserves to be on the first page anyway.

...Also I wanna post one more reason why do I hate Destroy:

Destroy means that Reapers are killed, but that doesn't mean they are gone. Remember ME2? "Even dead god has a dreams". In case of Destroy all worlds will be full of Reapers' dead bodies... Do you think they will just lay there? No, Civilizations will start to stady them and start to use the Reapers' tech in barbaric ways, without a full understanding. This is how everyone will become a "monkeys with grenades".

Destroy itself is a genocide. But Destroy concequences will lead to even more genocide and devastating wars.

Modifié par Seival, 28 mai 2012 - 10:29 .

[Helios969]

Jason Ralph wrote...

I set out to destroy the Reapers. Not Control them. Not join them. Add in Garrus and his comment about killing 10,000 to save 10,000 and I'm cool with it. Shepard surviving, crew surviving, galaxy surviving is icing on the cake.

Garrus: It's the cold, hard calculus of war - ten billion die over here so twenty billion over there can live.

[Vox Draco]

Seival wrote...

Destroy means that Reapers are killed, but that doesn't mean they are gone. Remember ME2? "Even dead god has a dreams". In case of Destroy all worlds will be full of Reapers' dead bodies... Do you think they will just lay there? No, Civilizations will start to stady them and start to use the Reapers' tech in barbaric ways, without a full understanding. This is how everyone will become a "monkeys with grenades".

Destroy itself is a genocide. But Destroy concequences will lead to even more genocide and devastating wars.

Fair point, though I am not sure if really every single Reaper ceases to exists the indoctrination will still be a big issue. The derelcit Reaper was there, but so were countless Reapers in Dark Space. But I agree, even dead Reapers might pose a threat. Might in the future. Maybe all corpses are cast into the nearest sun?

But the same argument goes for control, at least as long as you don't go the "Haha, I fly you all into the nearest sun"-route, they are still around as well. And you mentioned the strong indoctrination/dreams that poses a threat...even to a benevolent Shepard-mind?

What will happen in a couple of years? Will a bodiless Shepard still relate to the fears, desires, feelings of the organic galaxy? Or will such a Shepard view things from another, more distant perspective. Like the catalyst, whose view on oranics had nothing to do with art, love, compassion, but only with genetics, DNA, evolution.
 Flesh is not only a weakness, you know...it makes us mortal, makes us feel pain and pleasure, and I am truly afraid without a body you'll eventually lose everything you once were..

And not to mention: With the Reapers still around, even when they are used for good intentionally, the hatred for them will most likely not just vanish. You can paint these Reapers all in nice new colours, but the cuttlefish-design  underneath remains, and will always be associated with death, genodice, liquified people. Every ruin on Earth, thessia, Palaven is a testament for what the Reapers are capable of.
 
If you say Destroy will eventually lead to barbaric wars, the same goes for control with the Reapers used for good. Eventually the galaxy will wage war agaisnt them. The Reapers will be viewed as a sword of Damocles hanging above the galaxy. And the races will look for weapons that rival those of the Reapers, just in case they turn to their old habits. Like today third-world countries are longing for nuclear weapons, even though america/Europe are clearly benevolent (yes, I am serious here! )

Not to mention that certain groups, especially people that have lost most of her family and loved ones, will view Shepard as a traitor and agitate against this new Harbinger/Catalyst/Reaperking, whatever...And so The Shepard sided with the dreaded Reapers and became one of them The Shepard betryed us all, and still the Rapers are out there, watching us, controlling us, and one day they will return 

And interesting enough you mention that the Reapers are beyond our understanding, that we are mere barbarians and neanderthals unable to handle the power the Reaper-Tech has to offer. Yet still you seem to be okay to upload shepards mind into one of these things? Why is it wrong to study these deadly corpses and use them for good, but okay to merge with them while they are still alive? Just because the Starbinger said so? I think it is far safer to use dead Reapers then alive ones... 

[Jamie9]

I'd like to post a theory that goes against destroy. I'm posting it here and not in the control thread because I want people to show me the opposing argument, and not agree with me outright. If you don't wish to get involved don't respond, I won't be offended.

Well, my opinions on control and destroy change slightly every week or so with the myriad of new opinion I read on this lovely BSN. Last night, I was just thinking:

What if the Catalyst is right? Yes, we're aware his logic is circular, and we hate his character, but what if technological singularity is a real threat? He's presumably been around for hundreds of millions of years. Is it not naive to just ignore him?

So in control I would propose taking the Reapers into Dark Space, and then listening to all the communications of the galaxy (because we know they did that from Legion), and if any synthetics try to wipe out all life, I can ride in and destroy the synthetics, allowing the organics to try again.

Thoughts? Are you willing to bet humanity's existence on the Catalyst being completely wrong?

[Tiberis]

Seival wrote...

 As I said, I dont like Destroy ending... But I think this thread deserves to be on the first page anyway.

...Also I wanna post one more reason why do I hate Destroy:

Destroy means that Reapers are killed, but that doesn't mean they are gone. Remember ME2? "Even dead god has a dreams". In case of Destroy all worlds will be full of Reapers' dead bodies... Do you think they will just lay there? No, Civilizations will start to stady them and start to use the Reapers' tech in barbaric ways, without a full understanding. This is how everyone will become a "monkeys with grenades".

Destroy itself is a genocide. But Destroy concequences will lead to even more genocide and devastating wars.

After what the galaxy has witnessed and been through, pretty much everyone will want to burn every bit of reaper they can find; especially if Shepard lives and reinforces that idealogy through everything he has learned up to now. Based on what the starbrat says, the destroy option obliterates everything reaper. This includes any dormant programs or whatever that would initiate the indoctrination process. After Shep destroys them, they are simply empty shells of metal. I would go so far as to say that the process in which the reapers die essentially renders every part of them inoperable and likely unsalvageable. If what the starbrat says is true (all synthetic crap will be destroyed) that means the reapers' corpses won't have anything left; litterally just metal.

But we are both speculating and I prefer to hold the serious arguments on which ending is "better" until the EC is out simply because all are horrible. The destroy option is the lesser evil, the more satisfying of the three, and it makes the most sense in the context of the entire series.