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[o Ventus]

mass perfection wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

mass perfection wrote...

RavenEyry wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
But they leave in Synthesis.Besides,they were under control by the Catalyst but Synthesis kills the Catalyst leaving the Reapers free and maybe they retreat into Darkspace after they help rebuild.

Again, how could you possibly know that? If making stuff up helps you enjoy the ending more, well good for you. However, your headcanon does not make a convincing argument to other people.

Because the Citadel is destroyed.

*sigh*

The cutscene following Synthesis only shows the Citadel shifting its arms. Nowhere do you see it breaking off or otherwise being destroyed. Only in the aptly named Destroy ending is it destroyed.

You obviously see the middle get blown to hell.

The same recycled cutscene used in all of the endings. 

[Sisterofshane]

Jamie9 wrote...

Would it not be a gigantic plot hole if the Geth and EDI survived, though? The Destroy beam destroys all Reaper code, so why would it only destroy 'some' Reaper code?

For all the problems I have with the ending, the fact that the Destroy beam kills the Geth and EDI was a sound decision IMO.

The problem with that being we don't exactly know how the crucible works.  Besides, why would shooting at a tube cause the beam to target Reaper "code"?

[o Ventus]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

I don't believe the catalyst either. He told me I was going to die because of my synthetic implants (The same implants that Shepard needs to survive), when I very clearly lived. Going off of this, there's nothing to say the geth or EDI also didn't survive.

Incorrect, he at best implied Shepard may die. As you can see from all the destroy endings he was telling the truth, and as you can see everything else he said that we saw was true.

Even if you don't believe it, there's no reason to believe that the Geth and EDI survive the destroy all synthetics ending, especially as the Catalyst was shown to be telling the truth in everything else.

Even if it wasn't explicitly outright stated, he hinted at it without remorse. You have to be an idiot of the highest caliber to NOT take what he says as "You're going to die".

[Ji99saw]

o Ventus wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

Ah yes, genocide and dooming future generations for a new cycle. I've completely written off that as the most stupid choice we have in ME3

Genocide about killing the geth, or killing the Reapers? If it's the latter, then I can't take you seriously.

"Dooming future generations for a new cycle"? You stopped the cycle by destroying the Reapers. Unless you were talking about the tech singularity (The one in which we have zero evidence supporting, but plenty of evidence to the contrary). Again, I can't take you seriously.

I was talking about the Geth that your so proud to wipe out, And as far as I know the reapers are the oldest and strongest Machines in the galaxey so I don't see any reason for them to be deceptive considering they could turn every single organic in the galaxy into ash. Also we do have proof of what they say Geth Vs. Quarians just because there is tempoary peace for the sake of defeating the reapers doesn't mean that will always be the case. To some up Destroy- Commit Genocide To Prevent Genocide, does that sound familler?

People die in war. This is a cold fact.

The Reapers aren't deceptive? Whatever happened to Saren believing that he was in control, when he wasn't? Or TIM? Or... anyone who was indoctrinated?

When the geth and quarians make peace, the Reapers are mentioned precisely zero times. How does-

"You are free to return to Rannoch, Admiral Raan. With us."

Correlate to the Reapers in ANY way? We're both shown and told that the geth/quarian peace is a reconciliation of differences, not an association of convenience.

Yes people die in war, but Genocide is something different and if you can't see that I feel sorry for you and hope you never hold a postion in any office that pertains to preserving life. On Rannoch Legion gave his life to stop the reapers and make his people Complete so you just Kill them all off , and the Geth that you quoted told Shep that he had Geth support against the reapers so I don't know what you mean By It wasn't brought up because it clearly was.

No dick he would tell them that there are available geth troops fit to fight. That doesn't make their alliance based solely on the Reapers. Did you not listen to Tali when she told you that the geth are downloading themselves into the quarian's suits, thus helping their immune systems? Or how the geth are helping quarians on Rannoch construct new homes? It wasn't like the Prime was going to go "So we're cool now, great. Oh, I need these colossi and Primes here on Rannoch. Nothing important, I just need them." You also neglect to note that the Prime was talking to Shepard when he said that, not any quarian, just like how Admiral Raan turned to Shepard when she offered assistance, and not to the Prime.

Like someone else said, the geth (Not that very many even still exist) and EDI do not hold precedence over the other trillions of people still alive. As Garrus put it, it's "ruthless calculus". I don't like it, but I deem it necessary. Hell, Shepard even said something similar when talking to James about the N7 program. "There wasn't a single N7 who hasn't sacrificed -- either himself or his men -- for the greater good".

So we resort to name calling now?  Once more, Losing a few casualties in war and Genocide are completly different. It doesn't matter who he was talking to the reaper threat was still very much present and you tried to make it seem as though it was not. And by the way Genocide is the complete oppisite of Sheps and everyone elses beliefs throught ou the entie trilogy even the reapers preseve life in the reaper ship. But if you believe that Commiting Genocide To Prevent Genocide is right then that Speaks volumes about you.

[Grimwick]

Ji99saw wrote...

So we resort to name calling now?  Once more, Losing a few casualties in war and Genocide are completly different. It doesn't matter who he was talking to the reaper threat was still very much present and you tried to make it seem as though it was not. And by the way Genocide is the complete oppisite of Sheps and everyone elses beliefs throught ou the entie trilogy even the reapers preseve life in the reaper ship. But if you believe that Commiting Genocide To Prevent Genocide is right then that Speaks volumes about you.

You are comparing unequal genocides as equal ones. That's a pretty fallacious comparison.

[clennon8]

"At best" my ass. He was implying it, flat out.

[Sisterofshane]

Grimwick wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

So we resort to name calling now?  Once more, Losing a few casualties in war and Genocide are completly different. It doesn't matter who he was talking to the reaper threat was still very much present and you tried to make it seem as though it was not. And by the way Genocide is the complete oppisite of Sheps and everyone elses beliefs throught ou the entie trilogy even the reapers preseve life in the reaper ship. But if you believe that Commiting Genocide To Prevent Genocide is right then that Speaks volumes about you.

You are comparing unequal genocides as equal ones. That's a pretty fallacious comparison.

Is there even a term to describe what the Reapers have been doing now for ages?  I think I'm going to call it galacticide - the wiping out of several galactic civilizations.  And the Reapers have been doing it now for at least the last billion years.

Compared to this, destroying the geth seems inconsequential.

Modifié par Sisterofshane, 27 mai 2012 - 08:18 .

[Clayless]

o Ventus wrote...

Even if it wasn't explicitly outright stated, he hinted at it without remorse. You have to be an idiot of the highest caliber to NOT take what he says as "You're going to die".

Incorrect, especially given his next absolute statement when talking about the Control ending when he point blank states you will die.

Jumping to conclusions, like thinking the Catalyst is telling you you will die if you choose destroy, will only lead to situations like this where you will find out you were innacurate.

It's smarter to not jump to conclusions like that based on nothing but a misunderstanding of grammar.

Modifié par Our_Last_Scene, 27 mai 2012 - 08:19 .

[jc271]

RavenEyry wrote...

mass perfection wrote...
Control doesn't do anything but to prevent the Synthetics to destroy us,we must merge with them.Synthesis makes that happen.

Synthesis does nothing to stop synthetics destroying us. The new hybrids could easily build more synthetics. Or do all new synthetics spontaneously generate organic parts now?

Every time I think about the synthesis ending I remember this:

www.youtube.com/watch

[MASSEFFECTfanforlife101]

It all ended with Carnifex in Hand.

Modifié par MASSEFFECTfanforlife101, 27 mai 2012 - 08:21 .

[Jamie9]

Sisterofshane wrote...

The problem with that being we don't exactly know how the crucible works.  Besides, why would shooting at a tube cause the beam to target Reaper "code"?

Perhaps through the tube is the primary source of energy to sustain and power Reaper code. Therefore when you shoot the tube, the energy is released, and all Reaper code consumes itself.

That sounds about right? How else would the destroy beam ONLY target Reapers if it wasn't targetting their code?

[Sisterofshane]

Our_Last_Scene wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Even if it wasn't explicitly outright stated, he hinted at it without remorse. You have to be an idiot of the highest caliber to NOT take what he says as "You're going to die".

Incorrect, especially given his next absolute statement when talking about the Control ending when he point blank states you will die.

Jumping to conclusions, like thinking the Catalyst is telling you you will die if you choose destroy, will only lead to situations like this where you will find out you were innacurate.

It's smarter to not jump to conclusions like that.

If we are going to take him only at absolutes, he never says that all synthetic life will die, either.

We can't pick and choose to believe that some of what he implies is true, and the rest is false, until we are shown that they are.

And we never see the Geth or EDI die.

[Luviagelita]

It's funny if you think of it at Shepard's view.

Synthesis:
Oh, the Catalyst. So, you're controlling the Reapers. And you turned billions of people into something horrible. And you destroyed our homeworlds. Dude, you're totally right, I'll make everyone merge with you!

Control:
Oh, the Catalyst. So, you're controlling the Reapers. And you said the Illusive Man couldn't control you because you controlled him. And you're asking if I can control you. Dude, THAT makes sence!

Destroy:
Oh, the Catalyst. So, you're controlling the Reapers. And you turned billions of people into something horrible. And you destroyed our homeworlds.
Die.

[Jamie9]

Sisterofshane wrote...
If we are going to take him only at absolutes, he never says that all synthetic life will die, either.

We can't pick and choose to believe that some of what he implies is true, and the rest is false, until we are shown that they are.

And we never see the Geth or EDI die.

I refer to my post above. How else would the destroy beam kill ONLY Reapers if it wasn't targetting Reaper Code?

The Geth and EDI die because they are powered by Reaper code. If they didn't die, then neither would the Reapers. It would be almost a big a plot hole as synthesis.

[Clayless]

Sisterofshane wrote...

If we are going to take him only at absolutes, he never says that all synthetic life will die, either.

We can't pick and choose to believe that some of what he implies is true, and the rest is false, until we are shown that they are.

And we never see the Geth or EDI die.

Which would leave us with "Despite everything else he said being true, I believe this part was a lie" and "Despite everything else he said being true, I believe this part here was also true as I have no other reason to believe it wasn't."

If that leads to a stalemate on whose beliefs are right, we can simply say we'll have to ignore it for right now and go on what we know is true (aka everything else).

[covertdrizzt]

I support destroy because, shepard lives, catalyst dies(I hope)

[dreamgazer]

Luviagelita wrote...

It's funny if you think of it at Shepard's view.

Synthesis:
Oh, the Catalyst. So, you're controlling the Reapers. And you turned billions of people into something horrible. And you destroyed our homeworlds. Dude, you're totally right, I'll make everyone merge with you!

Control:
Oh, the Catalyst. So, you're controlling the Reapers. And you said the Illusive Man couldn't control you because you controlled him. And you're asking if I can control you. Dude, THAT makes sence!

Not quite. There are very sound reasonings behind each of the other options, and ways you can interpret their implications that speak to some very healthy benefits for organic life---and, potentially, for Shepard.  However, for every step you take towards a positive element in each of those options, you're met with either an unknown variable and/or an ethically troubling undercurrent. And in order to believe, you have to broker faith with the Reaper-controlling, cycle-designing catalyst.  There's a whole lot of complication going on.

[Sisterofshane]

Jamie9 wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...
If we are going to take him only at absolutes, he never says that all synthetic life will die, either.

We can't pick and choose to believe that some of what he implies is true, and the rest is false, until we are shown that they are.

And we never see the Geth or EDI die.

I refer to my post above. How else would the destroy beam kill ONLY Reapers if it wasn't targetting Reaper Code?

The Geth and EDI die because they are powered by Reaper code. If they didn't die, then neither would the Reapers. It would be almost a big a plot hole as synthesis.

Again, not enough evidence to suppose that.  We don't see Shepard take control of all synthetic life, and yet we have the exact same machine emmiting a wave that encompasses everything when control takes place.  Why are we not also assuming that if the Crucible targets Reaper code, that control would not effect EDI and the Geth?

I think it would be more correct to assume that the CItadel has a direct link to the Reapers themselves (hence why they can "jump" to the Citadel from Darkspace without some explicitly shown secondary relay), which is why the catalyst resides there.  With a properly built crucible, by shooting at the tube you are sending energy through that link to the Reapers and the Reapers only.

Hence why the Geth and EDI may contain Reaper code, but are not destroyed.

[Carlthestrange]

My feelings on the Destroy Ending.

[BunBun299]

I go with Destroy. For one, I don't believe a word the Reaper Brat says, with or without IT. Second, its the only ending in which we know for sure the Reapers are dead. Even back when I first choose Control, I was headcanoning that the first order I gave the Reapers was fly into the nearest convient black hole. Allowing the Reapers to continue to exists makes the sacrifice of everyone who died in the war completely meaningless. Third, even if the Reaper Brat is telling the truth and EDI and the Geth will be killed by Destroy, at least I can be grateful that they were the Reapers final victims. And future generations who build AI can learn from their example to not repeat the mistakes of the past.

[Ji99saw]

Grimwick wrote...

Ji99saw wrote...

So we resort to name calling now?  Once more, Losing a few casualties in war and Genocide are completly different. It doesn't matter who he was talking to the reaper threat was still very much present and you tried to make it seem as though it was not. And by the way Genocide is the complete oppisite of Sheps and everyone elses beliefs throught ou the entie trilogy even the reapers preseve life in the reaper ship. But if you believe that Commiting Genocide To Prevent Genocide is right then that Speaks volumes about you.

You are comparing unequal genocides as equal ones. That's a pretty fallacious comparison.

Irrelevant,  Using you argument one could say Wiping out one race is not as bad as wiping out as others because they vary in size.? Genocide is bad no matter how you try to twist it.

[tekkaman fear]

Some truths are Universal. Destroy is truth.

[o Ventus]

Ji99saw wrote...

So we resort to name calling now?  Once more, Losing a few casualties in war and Genocide are completly different. It doesn't matter who he was talking to the reaper threat was still very much present and you tried to make it seem as though it was not. And by the way Genocide is the complete oppisite of Sheps and everyone elses beliefs throught ou the entie trilogy even the reapers preseve life in the reaper ship. But if you believe that Commiting Genocide To Prevent Genocide is right then that Speaks volumes about you.

Oh please. You're another one of those idiots that thinks the Reapers honestly preserve people by melting them down and liquefying their brains? That doesn't only go against established biology and philosophy (You can't carry thoughts, ideas, or memories without a BRAIN), it's also a poor attempt to make a formerly cold and ruthless enemy sympathetic. That'd be like saying Hitler went through with the Holocaust because Jewish people picked on him when he was a child. Did you not listen to Mordin in ME2? Or Shepard on Rannoch? If there's anything left of the species inside the Reapers, it's NOT them anymore. "No art, replaced by tech, no glands, replaced by tech, no soul, replaced by tech." Shepard even says "Those races died thousands of years ago! You killed them! We're letting them rest in peace." The only "genocide" being committed is against the geth, but you technically did the same thing when you rewrote them and slaughtered a couple thousand of them over the course of the 3 games.

I'll just ignore the fact that you answered only half my points, but whatever.

Also, prior to just now, I didn't call you any names.

Modifié par o Ventus, 27 mai 2012 - 08:37 .

[Montana]

Destroy is the only option, everything else leaves the reaper threat.

The starbrat was wrong about Shep, he's probably wrong about the Geth and EDI too.

[Bill Casey]

Carlthestrange wrote...

My feelings on the Destroy Ending.

That's because it's in Shepard's mind...
It's a Destroy metaphor on a giant dialogue wheel in space...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 27 mai 2012 - 08:36 .