231 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

If anything Smudboy is too soft on this series and overlooks certain major flaws such as Zaeed's character being utterly butchered in the Paragon charm outcome of his LM.

[IoCaster]

Total Biscuit wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Greed1914 wrote...

The saddest part is probably the clip of one of the people who worked on ME2 outlining "The Agreement." Four basic points that Bioware seemed to understand, and then they dropped all four of them. The fourth one about being the players' story is especially bad in light of them relying on artistic integrity.

This last one is because the writers had written themselves into a corner and didn't have a clue how to get out. In an effort to make the mysterious big baddies from the Cthulu darkspace they made 1) way way too many of them; 2) made them way way too powerful; 3) and essentially made it impossible for the player to win the game without some major and gaping plot holes, and they didn't know how to wrap those up without looking even more ridiculous.

Nah, all you need is some sort of new weapon that will knock out the Reapers sheilds, given that the origional Normandy, a light stealth frigate, could one shot kill Sovereign when it's sheilds were down, finding a way to do the same to the others was all that was needed.

Hell, you could even have still had the crucible, just say it was designed after the first game using Sovereigns remains, and ME3 would remain 99% intact, you'd just know what the hell it was you were building and how it worked. No need for ancient space wizardry.

The problem with this is that you would have had to lay some of the groundwork for it in ME2 but they didn't because, "Ah yes, Reapers". There are so many ways in which the story got derailed in ME2 and that's what most of the criticism was centered on. It is (ME2) a fun game, but a very crappy sequel with almost no continuity. That's why some of us said at the time that the devs boxed themselves in and chose style over substance with the very predictable result that they had to rely on plot holes, retcons, gibberish and ass pulls in ME3.

There were endless debate threads about it on this forum with much of the fanbase content to put their faith in BioWare to resolve these story issues in ME3. There were plenty of people that defended the shoddy narrative because they got their space bro, space ho, space waifu or whatever and that was all that mattered at the time. They argued that it didn't make sense to recruit all of these 'badasses' if they were just going to sideline them in ME3 with cameos. They argued that BioWare is owned by EA so they absolutely have and are willing to expend the resources to bring all of their favorites back to help Shep fight the Reapers. Basically it was a bunch of folks that were satisfied with a "damn the story, full speed ahead" sequel.

Those of us that were waving a red flag and warning that the narrative train was off the rails got shouted down by the faithful. Well now you folks have your payoff for all of that unwavering support and misplaced faith. *shrug*

Modifié par IoCaster, 28 mai 2012 - 10:27 .

[Mr. Big Pimpin]

Random Jerkface wrote...

my Aim is True wrote...

Your name makes me imagine you pissing into a toilet bowl.

This is the greatest thing I've read all day.

[JBPBRC]

Seboist wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

lol @ the pile of dead bodies & the 1 Keeper poking corpses on the Citadel. I never got how that fit in, it's like Bioware just threw in random crap in an attempt to set the mood, regardless if it made sense or not

That's just Bioware being Bioware with their inane attempts at shock value.

It worked quite well actually. I was shocked that the Keeper was typing on the dead bodies.

Typing.

[Montana]

I can't believe I watched that whole thing.

He's nit-picking, but has alot of valid points, especially from the "white elevator" and forward.

[GreyLycanTrope]

While I didn't agree with all his criticisms, some are nitpicks, I agree with his overall point. And wolverine shouting "Steeeve!' was one of the funinest things I've seen in a while.

[ArcanistLibram]

EsterCloat wrote...

Not the biggest fan of Smudboy, with the rather strange interpretation he had for ME2, but at least this is something we can agree on.

As much as I like Mass Effect 2, I can't really disagree with anything Smudboy said about it. His points are valid, but they don't really bother me. Now that I've played Mass Effect 3, it's clear that Bioware didn't have a plan for the series and Mass Effect 2 really suffers from that.

His review is nitpicky, but I can understand why. On their own, stuff like the keeper poking the dead bodies or the black lines during the conversation with the Illusive Man or the Illusive Man waving his arms around to make Shepard shoot Anderson wouldn't bother me because those are just minor details. But then you add all the major problems like the scientific failure that is the Synthesis ending and the Bioware's refusal to let the players call the Catalyst out on its fifty billion logical fallacies and completely insane arguments that have absolutely no empirical support and the minor problems aren't minor anymore. They become symptomatic of a much broader spiral of failure.

[Greed1914]

Greylycantrope wrote...

While I didn't agree with all his criticisms, some are nitpicks, I agree with his overall point. And wolverine shouting "Steeeve!' was one of the funinest things I've seen in a while.

Yeah, that killed me.  "This one's for STEEEVE!"

[pacientK]

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Sure, ME2's plot may have been literally irrelevant and a bit silly at times, but it didn't exactly throw me to the point where i can't play the game anymore due to the ludicrousness of the plot. Didn't have everyone yelling and screaming at me what could and couldn't be done when i damn well know they were wrong.

ME3 on the other had, is just stupid right from the moment you meet Liara at mars.

Dont mean to burst your bubble but ME3 is getting stupid even before that. Conversation with defence comitee really set the tone for all inane conversations in game.

[Dendio1]

I looked at it this way. We have all nit picked the hell out of ME3's ending. Its fair ground for the ultimate nit picker to get his. Smudboy you did well son....you did well.

[fr33stylez]

IoCaster wrote...

Total Biscuit wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Greed1914 wrote...

The saddest part is probably the clip of one of the people who worked on ME2 outlining "The Agreement." Four basic points that Bioware seemed to understand, and then they dropped all four of them. The fourth one about being the players' story is especially bad in light of them relying on artistic integrity.

This last one is because the writers had written themselves into a corner and didn't have a clue how to get out. In an effort to make the mysterious big baddies from the Cthulu darkspace they made 1) way way too many of them; 2) made them way way too powerful; 3) and essentially made it impossible for the player to win the game without some major and gaping plot holes, and they didn't know how to wrap those up without looking even more ridiculous.

Nah, all you need is some sort of new weapon that will knock out the Reapers sheilds, given that the origional Normandy, a light stealth frigate, could one shot kill Sovereign when it's sheilds were down, finding a way to do the same to the others was all that was needed.

Hell, you could even have still had the crucible, just say it was designed after the first game using Sovereigns remains, and ME3 would remain 99% intact, you'd just know what the hell it was you were building and how it worked. No need for ancient space wizardry.

The problem with this is that you would have had to lay some of the groundwork for it in ME2 but they didn't because, "Ah yes, Reapers". There are so many ways in which the story got derailed in ME2 and that's what most of the criticism was centered on. It is (ME2) a fun game, but a very crappy sequel with almost no continuity. That's why some of us said at the time that the devs boxed themselves in and chose style over substance with the very predictable result that they had to rely on plot holes, retcons, gibberish and ass pulls in ME3.

There were endless debate threads about it on this forum with much of the fanbase content to put their faith in BioWare to resolve these story issues in ME3. There were plenty of people that defended the shoddy narrative because they got their space bro, space ho, space waifu or whatever and that was all that mattered at the time. They argued that it didn't make sense to recruit all of these 'badasses' if they were just going to sideline them in ME3 with cameos. They argued that BioWare is owned by EA so they absolutely have and are willing to expend the resources to bring all of their favorites back to help Shep fight the Reapers. Basically it was a bunch of folks that were satisfied with a "damn the story, full speed ahead" sequel.

Those of us that were waving a red flag and warning that the narrative train was off the rails got shouted down by the faithful. Well now you folks have your payoff for all of that unwavering support and misplaced faith. *shrug*

Thumbs up.

[fr33stylez]

JBPBRC wrote...

Seboist wrote...

fr33stylez wrote...

lol @ the pile of dead bodies & the 1 Keeper poking corpses on the Citadel. I never got how that fit in, it's like Bioware just threw in random crap in an attempt to set the mood, regardless if it made sense or not

That's just Bioware being Bioware with their inane attempts at shock value.

It worked quite well actually. I was shocked that the Keeper was typing on the dead bodies.

Typing.

You guys are killing me. At least I'm able to be amused from the disaster that was the ending.

[jla0644]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

jla0644 wrote...

^^^ lol

Ok so I liked the story. Prove that my opinion is wrong.

The fact that you liked it has nothing to do with anything. Some people like the ME3 ending, despite it being the most objectively contradictory and inconsistent thing to have ever been.

Well then you obviously aren't sure what 'objective' means. You're assuming that something you deem contradictory and inconsistent (which, without being more specific, I can't necessarily agree) makes it 'bad', when it's really nothing more than your personal taste. Unfortunately, you don't get to decide how other people judge things.

Unlike smudboy, and you apparently, not everyone needs a game to spell out everything for them. Smudboy assumes that if there isn't an explicit answer for every single minor thing that happens in the game, then it's a plot hole. If he had his way, ME2 would have been a 300 hour game and it would have been impossible to play.

Modifié par jla0644, 29 mai 2012 - 12:31 .

[EnvyTB075]

pacientK wrote...

EnvyTB075 wrote...

Sure, ME2's plot may have been literally irrelevant and a bit silly at times, but it didn't exactly throw me to the point where i can't play the game anymore due to the ludicrousness of the plot. Didn't have everyone yelling and screaming at me what could and couldn't be done when i damn well know they were wrong.

ME3 on the other had, is just stupid right from the moment you meet Liara at mars.

Dont mean to burst your bubble but ME3 is getting stupid even before that. Conversation with defence comitee really set the tone for all inane conversations in game.

Totally agree, but i didn't recognise this on my first playthrough.

[SP2219]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

I bet guys from Bioware watch this and laugh at all the stupid nerds who get worked up about video game endings and will probably never get laid.

Tell me I am wrong... Tell me Bioware doesn't think of their fans like this.

Jesus Christ you are a cok

Modifié par SP2219, 29 mai 2012 - 01:24 .

[ADLegend21]

wha everyone doens't know is that smudboy wrote teh ending so he could mak a 90 minute video about how bad it is. Why does ANYONE listen to this guy? he's been saying how bad ME is since he first game, but then 2 came out and he claimed ME1 was perfect. SMud is the rtolliest of trolls and if you ever disagree with him he'll attack you. why do you think he's not on the BSN anymore?

[comrade gando]

when I got to the last part of the game I felt like I had all those questions coming up to me while I was playing but they were coming up so FAST and there was no explanation to any of them. My brain just kinda went like "durrr ok whatever". Then it progressively got worse at the starchild scene I was like in zombie mode, limping towards control (cuz blue is good right?), consider me indoctrinated. Then the game just went completely bonkers in that last cutscene.

I've never seen a game go so bat**** INSANE like that before in the last few minutes and even after the credits with the wierd old man.

[Mythx88]

bwaha54 wrote...

I agree with this man. over 9000%

WHAT?! Nine Thousand?!

[Scimal]

ADLegend21 wrote...
SMud is the rtolliest of trolls and if you ever disagree with him he'll attack you. why do you think he's not on the BSN anymore?

Newbies to the forums are still newbies. They have to learn somehow.

Surprisingly enough, after watching the entirety of it, it wasn't that bad. He does nitpick a bit, and his knowledge is obviously not in any Science field (humans have stopped evolving?). However, most of his review is fairly concise.

Even I'm a bit flabbergasted, but even a broke clock is right twice a day. ;-) Complain enough, and eventually you'll have something to complain about.

[Subguy614]

Smudboy is dead on accurate with his plot analysis of all 3 ME games. I liked ME2 but even I had to shake my head at the "mission" to nowhere to get everyone kidnapped.

Also, I thought he was strongly hinting the IT.

[Richard 060]

On several points in his earlier videos (including some, but not all, of his issues with Mass Effect 3), I'd be inclined to call it 'nit-picking', simply because they're not things that totally de-rail the story.

For example, the Alliance 'Dreadnought' in atmosphere/getting destroyed in the prologue - yes, this is at odds with the Codex entry on capital ships from Mass Effect 1, but it doesn't really harm the story - it's a minor contradiction that doesn't really make a difference to the plot either way, correct or incorrect. Chalk it up as a mistake, and move on.

(Similar example - both the pilot episode of 'Enterprise' and JJ Abrams' 'Star Trek' movie mention 'Klingon Warbirds', when they actually refer to a 'Klingon Bird-of-Prey' and a 'Klingon Battlecruiser', respectively. Are these mistakes? Yes. Are they integral to the plot? Hells no. Again, just move on - in both those examples, as with ME3, there are bigger, plot-damaging screw-ups that could be focussed on instead. Don't waste your time diluting your argument by looking like a pedant - save your ire for the REAL evidence of bad writing...)


That said, in the case of the Mass Effect 3 ending, it's such a condemnatory statement that so many analyses of it (including Smudboy's 5th ME3 video, MrBTongue's 'Tasteful, Understated Nerdrage' series, Drayfish and Taboo-XX's efforts here at BSN, etc.) can go to town on it and come up with so many clear and irrefutable examples of how flawed the writing and plotting are. It's akin to the most plentiful oil well in existence - no matter how many people tap into it, they still come up with new and valid points, because it's just THAT bad.


It's also rather sad for me to think that between the depressing fact that the team at BioWare clearly can't see a problem with the plot of the ending (which is particularly damning, considering how the company sells it's games as 'story-based', yet they've clearly lost the ability to discern the difference between 'good' and 'bad' writing...), and the overall drop in quality between ME2 and ME3 in all areas (you name it - gameplay, animations, exploration, dialogue options or lack thereof, etc. ...)...

...I'd actually prefer to watch yet another blow-by-blow autopsy on where ME3 went so badly off the rails (mainly in it's final moments, but elsewhere too), than to actually play Mass Effect 3.

And no, that's not because I'm some kind of unbridled cynic who just likes 'shooting fish in a barrel' and schadenfreude for schadenfreude's sake. I enjoy well-written entertainment - that's what drew me to Mass Effect in the first place. So what does it say that that same part of me now can't get that kind of enjoyment from Mass Effect 3, yet can from a 'fan' review on YouTube?



To quote the title of another thread on BSN:

The real tragedy? People stop caring.

Modifié par Richard 060, 29 mai 2012 - 04:50 .

[Ticonderoga117]

ADLegend21 wrote...

wha everyone doens't know is that smudboy wrote teh ending so he could mak a 90 minute video about how bad it is. Why does ANYONE listen to this guy? he's been saying how bad ME is since he first game, but then 2 came out and he claimed ME1 was perfect. SMud is the rtolliest of trolls and if you ever disagree with him he'll attack you. why do you think he's not on the BSN anymore?

Huh?
Anyway... we listen because he also outlines the serious glaring flaws of the ending in a detailed manner. I really, REALLY, want someone who likes the ending to defend it against these points. Seriously. It makes no bloody sense. Plus, I find his timing hilarious.

[alliance4g63]

IoCaster wrote...

Total Biscuit wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Greed1914 wrote...

The saddest part is probably the clip of one of the people who worked on ME2 outlining "The Agreement." Four basic points that Bioware seemed to understand, and then they dropped all four of them. The fourth one about being the players' story is especially bad in light of them relying on artistic integrity.

This last one is because the writers had written themselves into a corner and didn't have a clue how to get out. In an effort to make the mysterious big baddies from the Cthulu darkspace they made 1) way way too many of them; 2) made them way way too powerful; 3) and essentially made it impossible for the player to win the game without some major and gaping plot holes, and they didn't know how to wrap those up without looking even more ridiculous.

Nah, all you need is some sort of new weapon that will knock out the Reapers sheilds, given that the origional Normandy, a light stealth frigate, could one shot kill Sovereign when it's sheilds were down, finding a way to do the same to the others was all that was needed.

Hell, you could even have still had the crucible, just say it was designed after the first game using Sovereigns remains, and ME3 would remain 99% intact, you'd just know what the hell it was you were building and how it worked. No need for ancient space wizardry.

The problem with this is that you would have had to lay some of the groundwork for it in ME2 but they didn't because, "Ah yes, Reapers". There are so many ways in which the story got derailed in ME2 and that's what most of the criticism was centered on. It is (ME2) a fun game, but a very crappy sequel with almost no continuity. That's why some of us said at the time that the devs boxed themselves in and chose style over substance with the very predictable result that they had to rely on plot holes, retcons, gibberish and ass pulls in ME3.

There were endless debate threads about it on this forum with much of the fanbase content to put their faith in BioWare to resolve these story issues in ME3. There were plenty of people that defended the shoddy narrative because they got their space bro, space ho, space waifu or whatever and that was all that mattered at the time. They argued that it didn't make sense to recruit all of these 'badasses' if they were just going to sideline them in ME3 with cameos. They argued that BioWare is owned by EA so they absolutely have and are willing to expend the resources to bring all of their favorites back to help Shep fight the Reapers. Basically it was a bunch of folks that were satisfied with a "damn the story, full speed ahead" sequel.

Those of us that were waving a red flag and warning that the narrative train was off the rails got shouted down by the faithful. Well now you folks have your payoff for all of that unwavering support and misplaced faith. *shrug*

Perfect post man.

I hate to derail but I am pretty shocked so many people hold ME2 to such high regard. I have watched all the ME2 vids and I feel he is pretty spot on. I know the internet dwellers have a short attention span but if you take the time to watch the vids I don't see how you can dispute much of what he is saying.

So anyone claiming he is wrong about ME2, care to back up why you think otherwise?

[Herr_Fritz]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

Not the biggest fan of Smudboy, with the rather strange interpretation he had for ME2, but at least this is something we can agree on.

Same, I haven't watched his ME2 vids, but he doesn't like it, while I enjoyed the hell out of it...
Oh well. Doesn't change how broken the end to the series is.

I havent read any post past this one, but this is how I would summarise things.  ME2 was indeed enjpyable.  I felt I had an awesome time playing it.

In and of itself I cant fault it...but that's not the problem.

This is a trilogy...or is supposed to be.

First installment ...cool story

Second Installment... cool, but what did this have to do with ME1?

Third installment...very cool sub-plots.  Ending to a trillogy...total fail.

Modifié par Herr_Fritz, 01 juin 2012 - 03:01 .

[Dark_Caduceus]

Herr_Fritz wrote...

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

Not the biggest fan of Smudboy, with the rather strange interpretation he had for ME2, but at least this is something we can agree on.

Same, I haven't watched his ME2 vids, but he doesn't like it, while I enjoyed the hell out of it...
Oh well. Doesn't change how broken the end to the series is.

I havent read any post past this one, but this is how I would summarise things.  ME2 was indeed enjpyable.  I felt I had an awesome time playing it.

In and of itself I cant fault it...but that's not the problem.

This is a trilogy...or is supposed to be.

Third installment...total fail  Ending to a trillogy...total fail.

The reason the ending sucks is in large aprt do to the fact that plot-wise ME2 achieved next to nothing.

Look: Mass Effect 1 = discovering the Reaper threat > Mass Effect 2 = blank > Mass Effect 3 = stopping the Reaper threat.

What should the main plot point of Mass Effect 2 have been, in your opinion?