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[LelianaHawke]

Why does Shepard have to believe the Catalyst when everything points to peace between synthetics and organics as possible?

EDI, Geth...

One reason I picked destroy is that the evidence right before me showed peace was possible if the reapers were away.

Modifié par LelianaHawke, 28 mai 2012 - 06:54 .

[Obeded the 2nd]

justafan wrote...

The catalyst makes a prediction. We know he can be wrong, as his supposed final solution to the chaos problem has already failed. Hence, we either take our chances in the future with synthetics, who through the Geth have proven they can be allies and peace is possible, or rely on the reapers for a solution, and from experience we know they are bad news bears.

I say we take our chances.

Also I want to say that the prothean VI on thessia says that patterns repeat, this pattern will repeat.

[lordofdogtown19]

Cool story, OP

But your assuming the Catalyst is right, which he's not imo

[Baa Baa]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Navasha wrote...

You start your argument with a fallacy. Destroy isn't the worst long-term choice. The reapers are dead and the galaxy is free to choose its own path for the first time in its history. Sounds like a pretty good long term choice to me.

No because organics in the future will create synthetics destroying all organic life instead of just the advanced ones, which is worse than the reaper cycle.

If we take everything the Catalyst says at face value. Which doesn't really make sense for me since I made Peace between Quarians+Geth and the Geth never had any intentions of wiping out all the Quarians. They actually began to feel sympathetic towards them. So **** the Starchild he can go jump off a bridge along with his Genocidal friends.

There is no reason not to believe him.

He's trying to exterminate humanity. That's a huge reason why not to trust him.

[Obeded the 2nd]

LelianaHawke wrote...

Why does Shepard have to believe the Catalyst when everything points to peace between synthetics and organics as possible?

EDI, Geth...

At some point in the future they will rebel.

[Vox Draco]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...
There is no reason not to believe him.

[MisterJB]

Zix13 wrote...
I think people are rational and realize neither control nor synthesis have better long term implications. The only difference is that in destroy, the cycle of extinction isn't guaranteed. 

Control and Synthesis open endless possibilties and it can actually end the cycle of extinction.
With Destroy, you're risking the omnicide you're warned about.

[Obeded the 2nd]

Baa Baa wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Navasha wrote...

You start your argument with a fallacy. Destroy isn't the worst long-term choice. The reapers are dead and the galaxy is free to choose its own path for the first time in its history. Sounds like a pretty good long term choice to me.

No because organics in the future will create synthetics destroying all organic life instead of just the advanced ones, which is worse than the reaper cycle.

If we take everything the Catalyst says at face value. Which doesn't really make sense for me since I made Peace between Quarians+Geth and the Geth never had any intentions of wiping out all the Quarians. They actually began to feel sympathetic towards them. So **** the Starchild he can go jump off a bridge along with his Genocidal friends.

There is no reason not to believe him.

He's trying to exterminate humanity. That's a huge reason why not to trust him.

Without him all organic life would be dead, reason enough to belive him I think.

[LelianaHawke]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

LelianaHawke wrote...

Why does Shepard have to believe the Catalyst when everything points to peace between synthetics and organics as possible?

EDI, Geth...

At some point in the future they will rebel.

Great, and since you can predict the future... mind telling me the stock market movements for the next ten years?

[adneate]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...
He has actually saved organic live though.

Nope wrong. Play Mass Effect 2 again, Harbringer clearly says that of all the races only Humanity is worthy of being preserved in reaper form, the rest will be exterminated and made into mindless "Destroyer Reapers" who will be used as cannon fodder in the next extinction cycle. Shepard even calls the catalyst on this when she or he mentions that the Reapers destroy those they don't turn into Sovereign class Reapers. Naturally the catalyst dodges the question simply saying "Well we didn't kill humans last time that was pretty nice of us huh?"

So the fundamental assertion that the Reapers save organic life by making them Reapers is in fact wrong, the Reapers just exterminate races wholesale more than they actually make Reapers. They didn't make a Prothean Reaper, they just wiped them out and turned used their DNA to clone Collectors. The entire essence of the Reaper's existence isn't clearly defined by the writers, they told me what it was at the end but they didn't have them actually act in accordance with it. The Reapers save some life, some of the time and only if they want to.

Otherwise it's just good old fashioned genocide.

[Sisterofshane]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

justafan wrote...

The catalyst makes a prediction. We know he can be wrong, as his supposed final solution to the chaos problem has already failed. Hence, we either take our chances in the future with synthetics, who through the Geth have proven they can be allies and peace is possible, or rely on the reapers for a solution, and from experience we know they are bad news bears.

I say we take our chances.

Also I want to say that the prothean VI on thessia says that patterns repeat, this pattern will repeat.

Vendetta was making a direct reference to the Catalyst himself - the patterns repeat because he makes them.  That's the point of the mass Relays, the citadel, the Reapers - he has created a "cycle".

[Obeded the 2nd]

lordofdogtown19 wrote...

Cool story, OP

But your assuming the Catalyst is right, which he's not imo

He is right though.

[MisterJB]

LelianaHawke wrote...
One reason I picked destroy is that the evidence right before me showed peace was possible if the reapers were away.

It's the other way around. Peace was only possible because the Reapers are here.
Without a common enemy to unite us, we will be back to killing each other before the week is through.

[ArchDuck]

So just to point out the absurdity of the argument...

Your entire argument is that the amoral, delusional, murderer of trillions, master mind behind your greatest foe (and greatest threat to life in the galaxy) is actually trying to save us all?

Aahhhh.... OK. Sure, whats trillions and trillions of real* lives compared to an unprovable theoretical assertion of something that may or may not happen in the far distant future.

*Real in-game, not "real" real

[Obeded the 2nd]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

justafan wrote...

The catalyst makes a prediction. We know he can be wrong, as his supposed final solution to the chaos problem has already failed. Hence, we either take our chances in the future with synthetics, who through the Geth have proven they can be allies and peace is possible, or rely on the reapers for a solution, and from experience we know they are bad news bears.

I say we take our chances.

Also I want to say that the prothean VI on thessia says that patterns repeat, this pattern will repeat.

Vendetta was making a direct reference to the Catalyst himself - the patterns repeat because he makes them.  That's the point of the mass Relays, the citadel, the Reapers - he has created a "cycle".

Why would he repeat something in which he is trying to prevent?

[Shaani]

Destroy means that organic and synthetic life are free to find out for themselves rather he's right or not, and free to find their own solution, instead of having a brutal solution forced upon them by an outside power.

It is the best long term choice for both parties, because it allows them self-determination and the chance to decide the future for themselves.

[Sisterofshane]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

LelianaHawke wrote...

Why does Shepard have to believe the Catalyst when everything points to peace between synthetics and organics as possible?

EDI, Geth...

At some point in the future they will rebel.

Yep, lets make a decision regarding the entire galaxy based upon an irrational fear.

It worked so well for the Catalyst.

[Obeded the 2nd]

ArchDuck wrote...

So just to point out the absurdity of the argument...

Your entire argument is that the amoral, delusional, murderer of trillions, master mind behind your greatest foe (and greatest threat to life in the galaxy) is actually trying to save us all?

Aahhhh.... OK. Sure, whats trillions and trillions of real* lives compared to an unprovable theoretical assertion of something that may or may not happen in the far distant future.

*Real in-game, not "real" real

It will happen.

[What a Succulent Ass]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

He has actually saved organic live though.

Not in any way, shape, form, or fashion. The reapers minds and wills have not been preserved, as evidenced by the fact that they are, either through manipulation, force, or brainwashing, being controlled. Their organic bodies have certainly not been preserved. Their histories, technologies, languages, and cultures have not been preserved, and indeed, all traces of their civilisations have been purposefully obliterated. The species that cannot be reaperised are outright destroyed, and the individuals that are left mutated and mindless by the indoctrination and huskification process are left to starve to death when the reapers retreat to dark space.

This is preservation?

[Ulous]

Why is it called "destroy" ending anyway? In the final cutscenes you can clearly see they are not destroyed but merely deactivated, this means they can either be re-activated and/or the tech could be used by organics, either way you look at it the future would be bleak.

[Baa Baa]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Baa Baa wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Navasha wrote...

You start your argument with a fallacy. Destroy isn't the worst long-term choice. The reapers are dead and the galaxy is free to choose its own path for the first time in its history. Sounds like a pretty good long term choice to me.

No because organics in the future will create synthetics destroying all organic life instead of just the advanced ones, which is worse than the reaper cycle.

If we take everything the Catalyst says at face value. Which doesn't really make sense for me since I made Peace between Quarians+Geth and the Geth never had any intentions of wiping out all the Quarians. They actually began to feel sympathetic towards them. So **** the Starchild he can go jump off a bridge along with his Genocidal friends.

There is no reason not to believe him.

He's trying to exterminate humanity. That's a huge reason why not to trust him.

Without him all organic life would be dead, reason enough to belive him I think.

I think your giving him too much credit. But it's not like either of us is really right or wrong. Since we are cursed with those wretched speculations and unanswered questions...

[Obeded the 2nd]

Shaani wrote...

Destroy means that organic and synthetic life are free to find out for themselves rather he's right or not, and free to find their own solution, instead of having a brutal solution forced upon them by an outside power.

It is the best long term choice for both parties, because it allows them self-determination and the chance to decide the future for themselves.

(see other responses)

[Darksaberexile]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

lordofdogtown19 wrote...

Cool story, OP

But your assuming the Catalyst is right, which he's not imo

He is right though.

What makes him right?

[ArchDuck]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

So just to point out the absurdity of the argument...

Your entire argument is that the amoral, delusional, murderer of trillions, master mind behind your greatest foe (and greatest threat to life in the galaxy) is actually trying to save us all?

Aahhhh.... OK. Sure, whats trillions and trillions of real* lives compared to an unprovable theoretical assertion of something that may or may not happen in the far distant future.

*Real in-game, not "real" real

It will happen.

Because you have faith*?

*Faith: belief that is not based on proof

[Sisterofshane]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

justafan wrote...

The catalyst makes a prediction. We know he can be wrong, as his supposed final solution to the chaos problem has already failed. Hence, we either take our chances in the future with synthetics, who through the Geth have proven they can be allies and peace is possible, or rely on the reapers for a solution, and from experience we know they are bad news bears.

I say we take our chances.

Also I want to say that the prothean VI on thessia says that patterns repeat, this pattern will repeat.

Vendetta was making a direct reference to the Catalyst himself - the patterns repeat because he makes them.  That's the point of the mass Relays, the citadel, the Reapers - he has created a "cycle".

Why would he repeat something in which he is trying to prevent?

That's not the point Vendetta was making. What he was trying to prove was that there was a higher power then the Reapers who seemed to be "guiding" the whole process.

He makes no mention of technological singularity.

However, it is interesting to note that the concept of "created v creator" is in fact forced by him, especially when he does crap like influence the Zha'til and the Geth to attack organic races.