284 réponses à ce sujet

[LelianaHawke]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

We don't really know how the catalyst was created but we can assume that he knows this will happen so must take the neccacary steps to prevent it.

Err... why? Why must we assume?

[Zix13]

MisterJB wrote...

Zix13 wrote...
I think people are rational and realize neither control nor synthesis have better long term implications. The only difference is that in destroy, the cycle of extinction isn't guaranteed. 

Control and Synthesis open endless possibilties and it can actually end the cycle of extinction.
With Destroy, you're risking the omnicide you're warned about.

Control -> more synthetics, reapers still need to kill everyone
Synthesis -> More synthetics, reapers still need to kill everyone, in fact, current war with the reapers continues
Destroy -> more synthetics, no reapers to kill everyone regardless of the hostility of synthetics

Modifié par Zix13, 28 mai 2012 - 07:13 .

[Shaani]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...
You would prefer both races to die?

That's a terrible metatphor you've got there.

[Obeded the 2nd]

Sisterofshane wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Vendetta clearly said patterns repeat.
This synthetic one would not be controlled by the catalyst.
The other point you mentioned is also something he is trying to get across.

He says the patterns he observed repeat.  He hasn't observed any pattern of technological singularity - it is, in fact, impossible to even know if there is a pattern because of the Catalyst's interference.  If there is a pattern of it present, it is just as easily explained by the Catalysts' interference, for example, with the Geth.  The only time we have seen the Geth killing organics is with the Reapers (and thus the catalysts) direct influence.

He doesn't need to say that this one repeats, he just needs to say that pattens repeat, this means that all things do repeat over-time.
Talking about this would just ruin the ending.

[adneate]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...
We don't really know how the catalyst was created but we can assume that he knows this will happen so must take the neccacary steps to prevent it.

Or the Catalyst is a computer program stuck in a logic loop trying to solve a problem it created. Seems far more likely to me since the catalyst actively aids the Geth in exterminating their own creators. Whereas this AI actually knowing anything of value other than where it's hard drive is so I can reformat is invalidated by everything that happens in all 3 games pertaining to anytime an AI is involved in the story. Nothing in Mass Effect follows this pattern, unless the Reapers are directly involved and make it follow this pattern by their interference.

[o Ventus]

Zix13 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Zix13 wrote...
I think people are rational and realize neither control nor synthesis have better long term implications. The only difference is that in destroy, the cycle of extinction isn't guaranteed. 

Control and Synthesis open endless possibilties and it can actually end the cycle of extinction.
With Destroy, you're risking the omnicide you're warned about.

Control -> more synthetics, reapers still need to kill everyone regardless of the hostility of synthetics
Synthesis -> More synthetics, reapers still need to kill everyone regardless of the hostility of synthetics
Destroy -> more synthetics, no reapers to kill everyone regardless of the hostility of synthetics

Fixed. Sorry, I just had to expand your 3rd point to the others, since it's precisely what the Reapers are doing.

[Obeded the 2nd]

LelianaHawke wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

We don't really know how the catalyst was created but we can assume that he knows this will happen so must take the neccacary steps to prevent it.

Err... why? Why must we assume?

Because we don't know where he came from, it is not explained int he game.

[ArchDuck]

ArchDuck wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

So just to point out the absurdity of the argument...

Your entire argument is that the amoral, delusional, murderer of trillions, master mind behind your greatest foe (and greatest threat to life in the galaxy) is actually trying to save us all?

Aahhhh.... OK. Sure, whats trillions and trillions of real* lives compared to an unprovable theoretical assertion of something that may or may not happen in the far distant future.

*Real in-game, not "real" real

It will happen.

Because you have faith*?

*Faith: belief that is not based on proof

Still want an answer to this.

[LelianaHawke]

But patterns don't always repeat.

In real life, time cycles are quackish pseudo-science.

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Because we don't know where he came from, it is not explained int he game.

So in other words, we have no evidence to believe anything he says.

Modifié par LelianaHawke, 28 mai 2012 - 07:15 .

[JamieCOTC]

Your ending is the best ending ... whatever that may be. That's why they left it open to interpretation. Otherwise there is no need for an open ending. In other words, when you invite an audience to interpret, there can't be a wrong answer.

[Shaani]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...
Yes it does.
S/he said they would prefer thier own destruction to come at thier own hands rather than a god-like charcter.
However doing this would kill all other life forms.

No, I said I'd rather die of my own honest mistake, then be murdered (or worse, turned into a Reaper to suffer for eons) because of what some alien thinks might happen.

And if a robot war must happen, then let it happen.  That's our destiny, and fighting it is not worth billions upon billions of years of murdering innocents.

[Evolution13]

I have 5+ Hours of gameplay to evidence the Catalyst is wrong. I made peace between the Geth and Quarians, Yes they rebelled against their creators, but they worked it out in Therapy! Starkid tries to convince me otherwise with 2 sentances. Also, thugh I have yet to find or make video proof (though I will) EDI can pop out of the Normandy on the destroy ending. It's stated in the wiki. Starkid lies, lies, lies!

The only good Reaper is a dead Reaper.

[o Ventus]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Vendetta clearly said patterns repeat.
This synthetic one would not be controlled by the catalyst.
The other point you mentioned is also something he is trying to get across.

He says the patterns he observed repeat.  He hasn't observed any pattern of technological singularity - it is, in fact, impossible to even know if there is a pattern because of the Catalyst's interference.  If there is a pattern of it present, it is just as easily explained by the Catalysts' interference, for example, with the Geth.  The only time we have seen the Geth killing organics is with the Reapers (and thus the catalysts) direct influence.

He doesn't need to say that this one repeats, he just needs to say that pattens repeat, this means that all things do repeat over-time.
Talking about this would just ruin the ending.

Except it isn't logically possible for singularity to be a pattern, let alone a single occurrence. The Reapers don't destroy synthetics. If an omniscient AI synthetic HAS destroyed all organic life in the past, it wouldn't just stop all of a sudden.

And the horrible endings ruined themselves (And the rest of the series).

[Obeded the 2nd]

LelianaHawke wrote...

But patterns don't always repeat.

In real life, time cycles are quackish pseudo-science.

I hate to break it to you but Mass effect isn't real life.

[ArchDuck]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Your ending is the best ending ... whatever that may be. That's why they left it open to interpretation. Otherwise there is no need for an open ending. In other words, when you invite an audience to interpret, there can't be a wrong answer.

If written correctly, yes. Unfortunately they didn't do that part right.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 28 mai 2012 - 07:16 .

[Sisterofshane]

What we have with the Catalyst is a self-fulfilling prophecy (at least, self-fulfilling on a delayed cycle).

A: Eventually, all Organic Life (if left be for a long enough period of time, say Fifty thousand years?) will evolve into a higher form of advanced civilization. If the Reapers harvest all advanced civilizations, it is reasonable to assume that because of "A" that the Reapers will kill ALL organic life.

[T-Raks]

Why do we have to have a thread about this every five seconds? I mean, it's not like we haven't discussed this in 1000 threads before.

If you don't think that fighting for freedom, free will, self determination etc. is worth to fight for, fine: give in to the catalyst. If you do, destroy is the best long term decision, because it is the only choice that puts the future in everyones hands to determine it for themselves without forcing anything on them.

And BTW: So far no group of machines was able to wipe out all organic life, so the track record still speaks for organic life to find a way to survive every threat.

[Darksaberexile]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

LelianaHawke wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

We don't really know how the catalyst was created but we can assume that he knows this will happen so must take the neccacary steps to prevent it.

Err... why? Why must we assume?

Because we don't know where he came from, it is not explained int he game.

This is not a valid reason to assume anything.
We used to not know what caused events such as volcanic eruptions. People concluded there were gods angry with humans. By your logic, we should have accepted this, correct?

If not, then why must we accept what the Catalyst says simply because we don't know his origin? What if the Catalyst is a Reaper construct designed only to manipulate Shepard? Should he still be trusted implicitly?

[o Ventus]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Your ending is the best ending ... whatever that may be. That's why they left it open to interpretation. Otherwise there is no need for an open ending. In other words, when you invite an audience to interpret, there can't be a wrong answer.

There is when a sizable portion of the audience doesn't believe the ending is real and continues to formulate the indoctrination theory.

Or when another part of the audience raises nearly $100,000 to FIX the garbled mess.

[LelianaHawke]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

LelianaHawke wrote...

But patterns don't always repeat.

In real life, time cycles are quackish pseudo-science.

I hate to break it to you but Mass effect isn't real life.

Yes, but you said that no evidence or explanation is given in game for the catalyst's reasoning. Therefore we need to use our own deduction.

If something strikes me, the player, as illogical, then it also is illogical to my Shepard, because I control her decisions.

[Obeded the 2nd]

o Ventus wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Vendetta clearly said patterns repeat.
This synthetic one would not be controlled by the catalyst.
The other point you mentioned is also something he is trying to get across.

He says the patterns he observed repeat.  He hasn't observed any pattern of technological singularity - it is, in fact, impossible to even know if there is a pattern because of the Catalyst's interference.  If there is a pattern of it present, it is just as easily explained by the Catalysts' interference, for example, with the Geth.  The only time we have seen the Geth killing organics is with the Reapers (and thus the catalysts) direct influence.

He doesn't need to say that this one repeats, he just needs to say that pattens repeat, this means that all things do repeat over-time.
Talking about this would just ruin the ending.

Except it isn't logically possible for singularity to be a pattern, let alone a single occurrence. The Reapers don't destroy synthetics. If an omniscient AI synthetic HAS destroyed all organic life in the past, it wouldn't just stop all of a sudden.

And the horrible endings ruined themselves (And the rest of the series).

It might have and those were reapers and now there used for the catalyst.
Also it is possible for that to be a pattern

[Wulfram]

In the long run, we're all dead.

[Obeded the 2nd]

LelianaHawke wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

LelianaHawke wrote...

But patterns don't always repeat.

In real life, time cycles are quackish pseudo-science.

I hate to break it to you but Mass effect isn't real life.

Yes, but you said that no evidence or explanation is given in game for the catalyst's reasoning. Therefore we need to use our own deduction.

If something strikes me, the player, as illogical, then it also is illogical to my Shepard, because I control her decisions.

I said there was no way to know how he was created, his goals are clear.

[Luviagelita]

The Catalyst speaks of the problem that doesen't exist. He created the cycles that raise civilisation only to slaughter them. Why are you apply this logic to a human who struggles to believe in humanity all the way, OP?

[o Ventus]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Vendetta clearly said patterns repeat.
This synthetic one would not be controlled by the catalyst.
The other point you mentioned is also something he is trying to get across.

He says the patterns he observed repeat.  He hasn't observed any pattern of technological singularity - it is, in fact, impossible to even know if there is a pattern because of the Catalyst's interference.  If there is a pattern of it present, it is just as easily explained by the Catalysts' interference, for example, with the Geth.  The only time we have seen the Geth killing organics is with the Reapers (and thus the catalysts) direct influence.

He doesn't need to say that this one repeats, he just needs to say that pattens repeat, this means that all things do repeat over-time.
Talking about this would just ruin the ending.

Except it isn't logically possible for singularity to be a pattern, let alone a single occurrence. The Reapers don't destroy synthetics. If an omniscient AI synthetic HAS destroyed all organic life in the past, it wouldn't just stop all of a sudden.

And the horrible endings ruined themselves (And the rest of the series).

It might have and those were reapers and now there used for the catalyst.
Also it is possible for that to be a pattern

If it hasn't happened YET, how can it possibly be a pattern? Do you not know what a pattern is?