284 réponses à ce sujet

[ArchDuck]

ArchDuck wrote...

So just to point out the absurdity of the argument...

Your entire argument is that the amoral, delusional, murderer of trillions, master mind behind your greatest foe (and greatest threat to life in the galaxy) is actually trying to save us all?

Aahhhh.... OK. Sure, whats trillions and trillions of real* lives compared to an unprovable theoretical assertion of something that may or may not happen in the far distant future.

*Real in-game, not "real" real

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...


Where? Show me the parts/scenes in which this is proven (Not using the catalysts ramblings because his statements have zero believablity as I can prove that he is either a liar or delisional).

Well no, you can't just cut the catalyst out.
He is a key part of the story.

I can. He is clearly delusional or a liar. He uses terms such as "final evolution", created always rebel, and others. Those are pseudo-science (incorrect BS science) and logical fallacies (fancy sounding but inherently incorrect arguements).

It’s not a question of whether he is wrong, it is whether he is lying (purposefully deceiving/misleading) or delusional (actually believes what he is saying) that we can't prove.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 28 mai 2012 - 07:48 .

[T-Raks]

Random Jerkface wrote...

Even assuming that synthetic-organic conflict is inevitable, considering that total organic annihilation would require synthetics to constantly tour the galaxy, obliterating every microbe on every world, this idea is even more inane than at first look.

Yup, add to that, that the only "synthetic race" that organics created we know of didn't even come close to be a real threat for organic life without reaper help.

Also it's an interesting thought to think of machines trying to wipe out all organic life to do, eh, what exactly? I mean, organics create machines to help them with difficult or disgusting tasks, so in essence to make their life easier. What exactly want machines to do when they have wiped out every organic lifeform and are alone in the universe? I just don't get it. Harvesting organics? Yep, I can understand that in a science fiction story. Enslaving them? OK. But wiping everything out to do what?

Thought further: if machines would've discovered that organic evolution will lead to the galaxy being destroyed because the galacic equilibrium gets destroyed by overusing the finite resources (for example) and their solution to that problem is wiping organic life out - OK, I would buy that in science fiction. Though the short term solution would still be to destroy the machines and then find a way to save the galaxy without sacrificing all organic life.

But ME gave us no plausible reason to understand what the Reapers are doing other than "you can't understand it because you are organic". That's bull!

[ArchDuck]

MisterJB wrote...

Synthetics develop at a much faster rate than organics. After only 300 years, the geth match organic civilizations that took 50 000 years to build.
As we can see on Earth, a more advanced species doesn't take into consideration the well being of less advanced species when planning their expansion. Humans have extinguished species we weren't even aware were there until they were gone.
So, even if they bear us no ill-will, the synthetics are a threat to organics. And the geth have proven that they will commit genocide if attacked regardless if we are a threat to them or not. And the organic races will not simply let synthetics advance at their expense.

So you are saying synthetics are the next phase in evolution.

[Sisterofshane]

MisterJB wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

organic life is forever extinct.

Can someone please explain how this is possible? Because my mind is continually being blown by this assertion.

Synthetics develop at a much faster rate than organics. After only 300 years, the geth match organic civilizations that took 50 000 years to build.
As we can see on Earth, a more advanced species doesn't take into consideration the well being of less advanced species when planning their expansion. Humans have extinguished species we weren't even aware were there until they were gone.
So, even if they bear us no ill-will, the synthetics are a threat to organics. And the geth have proven that they will commit genocide if attacked regardless if we are a threat to them or not. And the organic races will not simply let synthetics advance at their expense.

And your point?  After discovering the Prothean Cache on Mars, humanity was on par and perhaps surpassing some of the most advanced civilizations in just twenty years.

And again, once a certain level of sentience and understanding is reached, there is no reason to assume that ANY life form ( be it synthetic or organics) will just expand willy nilly without a care in the world.

Even the Geth strive to understand organics - they don't just mow us down in order to achieve their goal (the Dyson Sphere).

[MisterJB]

ArchDuck wrote...
Obviosly the people that think that don't think life would spontaneously start... like it did in the first place on garden worlds... and should do again.

We know that. So do synthetics.
And if they come to the conclusion that organics will always be a threat to synthetics, they can simply kill all signs of organic life in those worlds before they ever evolve to sapience.

[o Ventus]

MisterJB wrote...

Random Jerkface wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

organic life is forever extinct.

Can someone please explain how this is possible? Because my mind is continually being blown by this assertion.

Synthetics develop at a much faster rate than organics. After only 300 years, the geth match organic civilizations that took 50 000 years to build.

... Because they were created specifically to match the needs of an already advanced, space faring species. They didn't advance at all, they were ALWAYS LIKE THAT. Even from the Morning War to now, there hasn't been a change in how they operate, how they communicate, how they fight, anything.

As we can see on Earth, a more advanced species doesn't take into consideration the well being of less advanced species when planning their expansion. Humans have extinguished species we weren't even aware were there until they were gone.

I hope, for your sake, that this is completely irrelevant, since accidentally causing a non sapient, non free thinking animal to go extinct is different than the deliberate and systematic elimination of an intelligent race of beings.

So, even if they bear us no ill-will, the synthetics are a threat to organics. And the geth have proven that they will commit genocide if attacked regardless if we are a threat to them or not. And the organic races will not simply let synthetics advance at their expense.

Welp, it appears I have officially gone insane. You call US close-minded, yet you still cling to this idiotic, contrived belief. Do I need to remind you for the nth time that no synthetic (Check that, NONE) were hostile organics until either an initial organic hostility or prior Reaper influence?

Modifié par o Ventus, 28 mai 2012 - 07:51 .

[Deltakarma]

Why do topics like this have more than one page when other people have more problems about the game like gameplay mechanics and face import bugs and other things?

Ever since I started ME and learned of the Reaper threat, isnt it PRETTY FRICKEN OBVIOUS THAT WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A DESTROY ALL THE REAPER OPTION?

If you didnt notice that till Hackett and Anderson foreshadowed it, then you must have not played the other MEs'. But seeing your ME2 badge you have. Must have just wanted the action.

"Dead Reapers is how we win this"

True story bro. Remember what Anderson said in ME1?

"You kill one to save a thousand" or something along those terms? If being presented with an end to the Reapers, then why the hell not blow **** up? They give us no other way to get rid of them? One is mass rape the other is something relating to mass slavery? NO ONE WINS HERE!

[Shadow Quickpaw]

You think the Catalyst is all-knowing? He says Shepard will die if he shoots the pipe, but get your EMS high enough and voila! Big gasping breath at the last second.

[blooregard]

MisterJB wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...
Obviosly the people that think that don't think life would spontaneously start... like it did in the first place on garden worlds... and should do again.

We know that. So do synthetics.
And if they come to the conclusion that organics will always be a threat to synthetics, they can simply kill all signs of organic life in those worlds before they ever evolve to sapience.

Time spent seeking out organic life gives time for new organic life to be created.

Its impossible to wipe out all organic life because it will always spawn in some way shape or form. Even they destroy all the garden worlds time will ultimately prevail. New planets will be formed and organics will grow again.

[ArchDuck]

MisterJB wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...
Obviosly the people that think that don't think life would spontaneously start... like it did in the first place on garden worlds... and should do again.

We know that. So do synthetics.
And if they come to the conclusion that organics will always be a threat to synthetics, they can simply kill all signs of organic life in those worlds before they ever evolve to sapience.

So you admit that the Catalyst is a liar then. If the bolded part, which you wrote, is true then synthesis is a false ending that the Catalyst lied about being a solution. After all, Organics would rise again and the Reapers would have to kill all synthetics and hybrids to protect it, as they have done before.

Edit: And if he lied about that then it throws his wisdom and truthfulness into question. Including his unsupported argument stating synthetics will wipe out organics.

Modifié par ArchDuck, 28 mai 2012 - 07:58 .

[LelianaHawke]

MisterJB wrote...
We know that. So do synthetics.
And if they come to the conclusion that organics will always be a threat to synthetics, they can simply kill all signs of organic life in those worlds before they ever evolve to sapience.

But you've already said that that synthetics develop much faster. So all synthetics have to do to neutralize the threat is develop impenetrable shielding that organic weapons can't breach.

The jump to total war is a logical jump in itself. Why can't there be peaceful synthetics? Because Starbrat said so?

Modifié par LelianaHawke, 28 mai 2012 - 07:52 .

[MisterJB]

Sisterofshane wrote...
And your point?  After discovering the Prothean Cache on Mars, humanity was on par and perhaps surpassing some of the most advanced civilizations in just twenty years.

So? Imagine what the geth would have done had they been the ones who found it.

And again, once a certain level of sentience and understanding is reached, there is no reason to assume that ANY life form ( be it synthetic or organics) will just expand willy nilly without a care in the world.

Even the Geth strive to understand organics - they don't just mow us down in order to achieve their goal (the Dyson Sphere).

It's not an assumption, it's a fact.
Imagine if building the Sphere requires unthinkable amounts of resources. And the most available source of resources are garden worlds like Earth or Thessia.
Do you truly believe the geth would even hesitate before attacking if their victory wasn't certain?

[TheWerdna]

MisterJB wrote...

Yes it is. People are just very willing to completely disregard what the Catalyst warns us about. It's short-sigthed.

Except every example of Synthetic vs Organic conflicts we know of disprove his logic.

The synthetics the Protheans were fighting in the Metacon  War were about to be destroyed if the Reapers had not shown up (Organics winning against Synthetics)

the Zha'til, which were a race durng the Protheans cycle, used cybernetics and AI to augment themselves. These AI coexisted peacefully with the race, forming a beneficial partnership. Unfortunally when the Reapers came they subjugated the AI and through them took control of the entire race; turning them into monsters the Protheans were forced to destroy. (Peaceful cooperation between Synthetics and Organics; only reason there was conflict was because the Reapers interviened)

Lastly the Geth show a case in which Synthetics can work peacefully with organics.

So no, I do care what the Catalyst has warned us about. He is simply wrong and full of sh*t. His circular logic is full of holes and the facts we know disprove what he is saying. He doesn;t even give you evidence to support his points, all he says is "Trust me, synthetics will always destroy organics. No seriously, trust me; I know what i am talking about". Even if what he says is the most likely and common outcome, evidence shows that this is not always true. We don;t know what will happen, and I am willing to to take that chance. Because i believe its not inevitible, that there can be peace without synthesis.

Modifié par TheWerdna, 28 mai 2012 - 07:56 .

[ArchDuck]

MisterJB wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...
And your point?  After discovering the Prothean Cache on Mars, humanity was on par and perhaps surpassing some of the most advanced civilizations in just twenty years.

So? Imagine what the geth would have done had they been the ones who found it.

And again, once a certain level of sentience and understanding is reached, there is no reason to assume that ANY life form ( be it synthetic or organics) will just expand willy nilly without a care in the world.

Even the Geth strive to understand organics - they don't just mow us down in order to achieve their goal (the Dyson Sphere).

It's not an assumption, it's a fact.
Imagine if building the Sphere requires unthinkable amounts of resources. And the most available source of resources are garden worlds like Earth or Thessia.
Do you truly believe the geth would even hesitate before attacking if their victory wasn't certain?

You do realise how big space is right? How many easily mineable asteroids and such there are out there that would be way more convenient for synthetic races to use instead of have to be bothered with soil, weather and slaughter of lesser beings?

[T-Raks]

Vox Draco wrote...

T-Raks wrote...

Why do we have to have a thread about this every five seconds? I mean, it's not like we haven't discussed this in 1000 threads before. .

For the laughs? It always amuses me to read posts that support the reaper's point of view. *grabs popcorn* I wonder what they come up with next? ME4 starring Harbinger the Reaper, true hero of the galaxy?

 Yeah, I guess this cycle has to be finished, because organics don't understand...

[Obeded the 2nd]

o Ventus wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

It's not on faith but what is shown in-game.

What evidence do you have from the game that supports the idea of an omnicide on organics from hostile synthetics? It has NEVER HAPPENED.

The geth? Spared the quarians.
The zha'til? Were destroyed by the protheans.
EDI? Never rebelled.
David Archer? Never rebelled.
Metacon War? The protheans were WINNING.

HOW CAN YOU SAY THE GAME SHOWS AN OMNICIDE IF IT'S NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE?

I've answered this like 50 times already, please read the other posts

You have never once answered this, only provided more stupid baseless speculation. I ask for evidence, and you give me "Well this could happen..."

It hapeend when the catalyst says that it will happen.
If you say " catalyst sucks balls" then your to much of an idiot to actually understand the ending.
This is evidence and you can't say it isn't, not unless you just ignore the catalyst which is dumb.

[What a Succulent Ass]

I...there is too much insane logic in this thread.

BAILING.

[Humakt83]

Ah, spreading the enlightened Reaper gospel I see. Please continue chaplain.

"I wish you could see it like I do Shepard. It is so perfect." - Indoctrinated Man

Modifié par Humakt83, 28 mai 2012 - 08:01 .

[Obeded the 2nd]

ArchDuck wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

So just to point out the absurdity of the argument...

Your entire argument is that the amoral, delusional, murderer of trillions, master mind behind your greatest foe (and greatest threat to life in the galaxy) is actually trying to save us all?

Aahhhh.... OK. Sure, whats trillions and trillions of real* lives compared to an unprovable theoretical assertion of something that may or may not happen in the far distant future.

*Real in-game, not "real" real

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...


Where? Show me the parts/scenes in which this is proven (Not using the catalysts ramblings because his statements have zero believablity as I can prove that he is either a liar or delisional).

Well no, you can't just cut the catalyst out.
He is a key part of the story.

I can. He is clearly delusional or a liar. He uses terms such as "final evolution", created always rebel, and others. Those are pseudo-science (incorrect BS science) and logical fallacies (fancy sounding but inherently incorrect arguements).

It’s not a question of whether he is wrong, it is whether he is lying (purposefully deceiving/misleading) or delusional (actually believes what he is saying) that we can't prove.

You can't, he is a key part of the story.
He is telling the truth, seems i'm the onl one who can understand this.

[LelianaHawke]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

It hapeend when the catalyst says that it will happen.
If you say " catalyst sucks balls" then your to much of an idiot to actually understand the ending.
This is evidence and you can't say it isn't, not unless you just ignore the catalyst which is dumb.

So anyone who uses their free will to disbelieve the catalyst based on rasonable grounds is an idiot?

Modifié par LelianaHawke, 28 mai 2012 - 08:02 .

[blooregard]

MisterJB wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...
And your point?  After discovering the Prothean Cache on Mars, humanity was on par and perhaps surpassing some of the most advanced civilizations in just twenty years.

So? Imagine what the geth would have done had they been the ones who found it.

And again, once a certain level of sentience and understanding is reached, there is no reason to assume that ANY life form ( be it synthetic or organics) will just expand willy nilly without a care in the world.

Even the Geth strive to understand organics - they don't just mow us down in order to achieve their goal (the Dyson Sphere).

It's not an assumption, it's a fact.
Imagine if building the Sphere requires unthinkable amounts of resources. And the most available source of resources are garden worlds like Earth or Thessia.
Do you truly believe the geth would even hesitate before attacking if their victory wasn't certain?

The Geth have been shown multiple times to not be interested in the business of organics. The only ones who seek to wipe them out are the ones following the Reapers. If that sphere required unthinkable amounts of resources the Geth would just find planet that had them. You're forgetting that time is an illusion to synthetics like the Geth and that there is no such thing as "most available" when such a phrase would imply that they are limited by age.

[o Ventus]

MisterJB wrote...

Sisterofshane wrote...
And your point?  After discovering the Prothean Cache on Mars, humanity was on par and perhaps surpassing some of the most advanced civilizations in just twenty years.

So? Imagine what the geth would have done had they been the ones who found it.

And again, once a certain level of sentience and understanding is reached, there is no reason to assume that ANY life form ( be it synthetic or organics) will just expand willy nilly without a care in the world.

Even the Geth strive to understand organics - they don't just mow us down in order to achieve their goal (the Dyson Sphere).

It's not an assumption, it's a fact.
Imagine if building the Sphere requires unthinkable amounts of resources. And the most available source of resources are garden worlds like Earth or Thessia.
Do you truly believe the geth would even hesitate before attacking if their victory wasn't certain?

1. They're isolationists. Not imperialistic. Not militaristic. Not diplomatic. None of those. They don't give a DAMN.

2. It depends on what they are making their sphere out of. The intent of the sphere is to house every single geth program at the same time, so they'd probably need silicon more than anything. You're aware that there are planets constructed solely of 1 substance, yeah? Hell, there's a planet made entirely out of diamond in real life, racing around a pulsar. You can google it, you would probably call false on any link I provided. Never mind that a garden world like Earth would, cosmically, be a TERRIBLE place to harvest resources from. Barring renewable resources, we're barely sustaining ourselves as it is.

[MisterJB]

o Ventus wrote...
... Because they were created specifically to match the needs of an already advanced, space faring species. They didn't advance at all, they were ALWAYS LIKE THAT. Even from the Morning War to now, there hasn't been a change in how they operate, how they communicate, how they fight, anything.

They can build dreadnoughts 30% larger than ours and their only requirement is time and resources.
Geth workers don't rest or ask for salary or vacation. That makes them incredibly dangerous.

I hope, for your sake, that this is completely irrelevant, since accidentally causing a non sapient, non free thinking animal to go extinct is different than the deliberate and systematic elimination of an intelligent race of beings.

Any sufficiently advanced species won't care to make the distinction. We will seem as primitive to them as animals do to us now.

Welp, it appears I have officially gone insane. You call US close-minded, yet you still cling to this idiotic, contrived belief. Do I need to remind you for the nth time that no synthetic (Check that, NONE) were hostile organics until either an initial organic hostility or prior Reaper influence?

Actually, that is not true. Remember the Gambler AI or the Heretics?
And then, even if they were attacked first in ME3, the geth chose to commit genocide rather than simply reduce the quarians to a point where they wouldn't be a threat.
And if the geth did not attack first, was simply because they didn't need it to advance. If the time ever comes that they do, they will.

[ArchDuck]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

So just to point out the absurdity of the argument...

Your entire argument is that the amoral, delusional, murderer of trillions, master mind behind your greatest foe (and greatest threat to life in the galaxy) is actually trying to save us all?

Aahhhh.... OK. Sure, whats trillions and trillions of real* lives compared to an unprovable theoretical assertion of something that may or may not happen in the far distant future.

*Real in-game, not "real" real

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...


Where? Show me the parts/scenes in which this is proven (Not using the catalysts ramblings because his statements have zero believablity as I can prove that he is either a liar or delisional).

Well no, you can't just cut the catalyst out.
He is a key part of the story.

I can. He is clearly delusional or a liar. He uses terms such as "final evolution", created always rebel, and others. Those are pseudo-science (incorrect BS science) and logical fallacies (fancy sounding but inherently incorrect arguements).

It’s not a question of whether he is wrong, it is whether he is lying (purposefully deceiving/misleading) or delusional (actually believes what he is saying) that we can't prove.

You can't, he is a key part of the story.
He is telling the truth, seems i'm the onl one who can understand this.

Ah, so your arguement is about what the writer's intended him and his arguments to be not what he actually is and says. You can see what they intended, which isn't what is there.

[o Ventus]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

It's not on faith but what is shown in-game.

What evidence do you have from the game that supports the idea of an omnicide on organics from hostile synthetics? It has NEVER HAPPENED.

The geth? Spared the quarians.
The zha'til? Were destroyed by the protheans.
EDI? Never rebelled.
David Archer? Never rebelled.
Metacon War? The protheans were WINNING.

HOW CAN YOU SAY THE GAME SHOWS AN OMNICIDE IF IT'S NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE?

I've answered this like 50 times already, please read the other posts

You have never once answered this, only provided more stupid baseless speculation. I ask for evidence, and you give me "Well this could happen..."

It hapeend when the catalyst says that it will happen.
If you say " catalyst sucks balls" then your to much of an idiot to actually understand the ending.
This is evidence and you can't say it isn't, not unless you just ignore the catalyst which is dumb.

That isn't evidence, those are meaningless words coming from the mouth of a madman.

He also says it "will" happen, not that it HAS happened, which only further proves my point that the catalyst is an idiot working on a nonfunctional solution to a nonexistent problem.