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[Obeded the 2nd]

LelianaHawke wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

It hapeend when the catalyst says that it will happen.
If you say " catalyst sucks balls" then your to much of an idiot to actually understand the ending.
This is evidence and you can't say it isn't, not unless you just ignore the catalyst which is dumb.

So anyone who uses their free will to disbelieve the catalyst based on rasonable grounds is an idiot?

OK... it's clear why some people don't like the idea of Destroy's free will logic... because they don't believe anyone has free will.

Yes. this is a story, this is they way it works, the story shows this.
People who fail to understand this aren't idiots ( I was just getting frustrated) but they really do not understand a story if they cut out a part of the story that actually explains most of thier questions.

[Bill Casey]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Well no, you can't just cut the catalyst out.
He is a key part of the story.

The Citadel is the Catalyst...
The Reapers built the Citadel...

[MisterJB]

LelianaHawke wrote...
But you've already said that that synthetics develop much faster. So all synthetics have to do to neutralize the threat is develop impenetrable shielding that organic weapons can't breach.
The jump to total war is a logical jump in itself. Why can't there be peaceful synthetics? Because Starbrat said so?

In ME3, the geth chose to commit genocide when they could have just nullified the threat the quarians posed.
The reason there are no peaceful synthetics is because there is no peaceful sapient life.

Modifié par MisterJB, 28 mai 2012 - 08:03 .

[Obeded the 2nd]

o Ventus wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

It's not on faith but what is shown in-game.

What evidence do you have from the game that supports the idea of an omnicide on organics from hostile synthetics? It has NEVER HAPPENED.

The geth? Spared the quarians.
The zha'til? Were destroyed by the protheans.
EDI? Never rebelled.
David Archer? Never rebelled.
Metacon War? The protheans were WINNING.

HOW CAN YOU SAY THE GAME SHOWS AN OMNICIDE IF IT'S NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE?

I've answered this like 50 times already, please read the other posts

You have never once answered this, only provided more stupid baseless speculation. I ask for evidence, and you give me "Well this could happen..."

It hapeend when the catalyst says that it will happen.
If you say " catalyst sucks balls" then your to much of an idiot to actually understand the ending.
This is evidence and you can't say it isn't, not unless you just ignore the catalyst which is dumb.

That isn't evidence, those are meaningless words coming from the mouth of a madman.

He also says it "will" happen, not that it HAS happened, which only further proves my point that the catalyst is an idiot working on a nonfunctional solution to a nonexistent problem.

I'm done arguing about if you should belive the catalyst or not,belive what you will.

[LelianaHawke]

MisterJB wrote...

In ME3, the geth chose to commit genocide when they could have just nullified the threat the quarians posed.
The reason there are no peaceful synthetics is because there is no peaceful sapient life.

Actually the Quarians threw their live ships into battle and pressed forward when they were told to hold off.

The same quarians who tried to kill Shepard and thier own general in the ship because it was 'an opportunity' to destroy a Geth ship.

You can't use Quarian stupidity to predict the entire future.

Modifié par LelianaHawke, 28 mai 2012 - 08:06 .

[Luviagelita]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

It's not on faith but what is shown in-game.

What evidence do you have from the game that supports the idea of an omnicide on organics from hostile synthetics? It has NEVER HAPPENED.

The geth? Spared the quarians.
The zha'til? Were destroyed by the protheans.
EDI? Never rebelled.
David Archer? Never rebelled.
Metacon War? The protheans were WINNING.

HOW CAN YOU SAY THE GAME SHOWS AN OMNICIDE IF IT'S NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE?

I've answered this like 50 times already, please read the other posts

You have never once answered this, only provided more stupid baseless speculation. I ask for evidence, and you give me "Well this could happen..."

It hapeend when the catalyst says that it will happen.
If you say " catalyst sucks balls" then your to much of an idiot to actually understand the ending.
This is evidence and you can't say it isn't, not unless you just ignore the catalyst which is dumb.

What a nice argument you give here, sir. Of course calling everyone idiots will help you make your ideas seem more true.

[Obeded the 2nd]

Bill Casey wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Well no, you can't just cut the catalyst out.
He is a key part of the story.

The Citadel is the Catalyst...
The Reapers built the Citadel...

The citidale is part of the catalyst.

[o Ventus]

MisterJB wrote...

Actually, that is not true. Remember the Gambler AI or the Heretics?
And then, even if they were attacked first in ME3, the geth chose to commit genocide rather than simply reduce the quarians to a point where they wouldn't be a threat.
And if the geth did not attack first, was simply because they didn't need it to advance. If the time ever comes that they do, they will.

Heretics = Reaper influence. Why do you think they are acting how they act?

The credit-thief AI only started acting like a dick because the thief that created him destroyed the original credit-thief AI and had planned to destroy the back up copy (The one you encounter in-game). Again, organic hostility.

[ArchDuck]

MisterJB wrote...

LelianaHawke wrote...
But you've already said that that synthetics develop much faster. So all synthetics have to do to neutralize the threat is develop impenetrable shielding that organic weapons can't breach.
The jump to total war is a logical jump in itself. Why can't there be peaceful synthetics? Because Starbrat said so?

In ME3, the geth chose to commit genocide when they could have just nullified the threat the quarians posed.
The reason there are no peaceful synthetics is because there is no peaceful sapient life.

Genocide ≠ Elimination of all life
Anymore then: Murder = Genocide or Forest Fire = Incineration of a planet

[Obeded the 2nd]

Luviagelita wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

It's not on faith but what is shown in-game.

What evidence do you have from the game that supports the idea of an omnicide on organics from hostile synthetics? It has NEVER HAPPENED.

The geth? Spared the quarians.
The zha'til? Were destroyed by the protheans.
EDI? Never rebelled.
David Archer? Never rebelled.
Metacon War? The protheans were WINNING.

HOW CAN YOU SAY THE GAME SHOWS AN OMNICIDE IF IT'S NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE?

I've answered this like 50 times already, please read the other posts

You have never once answered this, only provided more stupid baseless speculation. I ask for evidence, and you give me "Well this could happen..."

It hapeend when the catalyst says that it will happen.
If you say " catalyst sucks balls" then your to much of an idiot to actually understand the ending.
This is evidence and you can't say it isn't, not unless you just ignore the catalyst which is dumb.

What a nice argument you give here, sir. Of course calling everyone idiots will help you make your ideas seem more true.

Yeah, sorry I was just raging

[Bill Casey]

I cast dispel phantasmal force...

[T-Raks]

LelianaHawke wrote...

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

It hapeend when the catalyst says that it will happen.
If you say " catalyst sucks balls" then your to much of an idiot to actually understand the ending.
This is evidence and you can't say it isn't, not unless you just ignore the catalyst which is dumb.

So anyone who uses their free will to disbelieve the catalyst based on rasonable grounds is an idiot?

Yeah, now it makes sense. If everyone with free will is an idiot, synthesis might be the best ending after all... :innocent:

[MisterJB]

o Ventus wrote...
Heretics = Reaper influence. Why do you think they are acting how they act?

The heretics chose to follow the Reapers freely and attack organic life because they believed it was the best way to achieve their goals. They were not being mind controlled.
Thus proving geth are willing to destroy organics if that helps them.

[Humakt83]

JamesBondHero wrote...

 HERE COMES THE TWIST:
Destroy is the best ending.

"No, no! Join the Reapers Shepard! Pick synthesis and you can be part of us. Or pick control and join us."

Modifié par Humakt83, 28 mai 2012 - 08:10 .

[o Ventus]

MisterJB wrote...

LelianaHawke wrote...
But you've already said that that synthetics develop much faster. So all synthetics have to do to neutralize the threat is develop impenetrable shielding that organic weapons can't breach.
The jump to total war is a logical jump in itself. Why can't there be peaceful synthetics? Because Starbrat said so?

In ME3, the geth chose to commit genocide when they could have just nullified the threat the quarians posed.
The reason there are no peaceful synthetics is because there is no peaceful sapient life.

EDI is peaceful.
The geth are peaceful. The heretics aren't, but as I've already explained, the heretics are under Reaper influence.
The credit-thief AI isn't even doing anything harmful.
The zha'til, again, were corrupted by the Reapers. Prior to that, they were helping the zha, not killing them.

[What a Succulent Ass]

MisterJB wrote...

Thus proving geth are willing to destroy organics if that helps them.

Just as some organics are willing to destroy organics if it will help them. What is your point? The entire crux is that both synthetic and organics are sapient beings. No one is more likely to destroy the galaxy than the other is on the merit of body composition alone.

[jstme]

MisterJB wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...
Obviosly the people that think that don't think life would spontaneously start... like it did in the first place on garden worlds... and should do again.

We know that. So do synthetics.
And if they come to the conclusion that organics will always be a threat to synthetics, they can simply kill all signs of organic life in those worlds before they ever evolve to sapience.

If they come to this conclusion - they are imbiciles. Size of the Universe - practically infinite. Resources - practically infinite. Organics need certain specific resources while AI is not bound by it. Competition for space or resources - not existing in medium to long term. Why would any non-faulty AI wipe out bacteria or replace nature with digital leaves (cough cough synthesis ending) if in case of direct agression it can simply erase the cause of agression? It is not morality, but simple logic.
Energy needed to wipe out organic life in infinite universe - infinite.
Energy needed to wipe out organic civilisation(s) going for the throat - not-infinite. Plus, given the rate of scientific advance of AI vs that one of organics, there will be few centuries during which organics could be considered an existential threat.

Also, a practical example. Our (non-ME) universe exists for very very very long time. If there is life in the universe - given that Sol is not the oldest star by far, there were civilisations on other planets long before us and the chance of creating an AI is certain.
And yet (unless you consider reapers real) there is organic life on this planet. Where are synthetics raining from the sky and wiping all the organic life for all that time?

[o Ventus]

MisterJB wrote...

o Ventus wrote...
Heretics = Reaper influence. Why do you think they are acting how they act?

The heretics chose to follow the Reapers freely and attack organic life because they believed it was the best way to achieve their goals. They were not being mind controlled.
Thus proving geth are willing to destroy organics if that helps them.

They willingly followed because of a math error. Not because of malicious intent.

Never mind that the heretics are also a very, VERY small minority in comparison to the normal geth, and thus not representative of their race.

Modifié par o Ventus, 28 mai 2012 - 08:19 .

[covertdrizzt]

MisterJB wrote...

LelianaHawke wrote...
But you've already said that that synthetics develop much faster. So all synthetics have to do to neutralize the threat is develop impenetrable shielding that organic weapons can't breach.
The jump to total war is a logical jump in itself. Why can't there be peaceful synthetics? Because Starbrat said so?

In ME3, the geth chose to commit genocide when they could have just nullified the threat the quarians posed.
The reason there are no peaceful synthetics is because there is no peaceful sapient life.

"The geth chose to commit genocide"   hmmm  this never happened im my game.  you must have a broken one!

[SuperVulcan]

The Catalyst's logic is irrelevant. The Reaper's want to wipe us out like they have done so many times before. Diplomacy is not an option, its either us or them.

[LelianaHawke]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Yes. this is a story, this is they way it works, the story shows this.
People who fail to understand this aren't idiots ( I was just getting frustrated) but they really do not understand a story if they cut out a part of the story that actually explains most of thier questions.

No one's disregarding the catalyst by simply cutting it out. We're disregarding the catalyst because we choose to believe an alternative reasonable explanation - that his logic is flawed.

The person who mentioned 'don't use the catalyst to convince me' had told you that he was't convinced purely by the catalyst, so you'd need to find some other evidence in support.

This appears to be the main disagreement you don't seem to understand. People don't have to believe the catalyst. Plenty of stuff exists in the game for us to distrust him. That's the way the ME3 story was written.

If someone says "I don't accept the catalyst's logic, show me something else to look at", you don't just reply "No the catalyst is an all-knowing god, you're wrong", and expect others to just bow down to that explanation.

Modifié par LelianaHawke, 28 mai 2012 - 08:22 .

[MisterJB]

o Ventus wrote...
EDI is peaceful.

EDI is a single sapient. A race of EDIs would not be peaceful.

The geth are peaceful. The heretics aren't, but as I've already explained, the heretics are under Reaper influence.

And as I've already explained, the heretics, which are geth, freely chose to attack organics to improve their lot in life.
And the geth attacked every organic that attempted to communicate them. They might choose to isolate themselves but they are certainly not peaceful.

The credit-thief AI isn't even doing anything harmful.

Besides stealing. And it chose to take out as many organics as possible rather than attempt communication once it had been found

The zha'til, again, were corrupted by the Reapers. Prior to that, they were helping the zha, not killing them.

Yes but when the zha's world had been saved and they would attempt to expand into space, they would not be peaceful to other races.
And if there were separed nations amongst the zha, they were not peaceful to each other.

[LelianaHawke]

MisterJB wrote...

And as I've already explained, the heretics, which are geth, freely chose to attack organics to improve their lot in life.
And the geth attacked every organic that attempted to communicate them. They might choose to isolate themselves but they are certainly not peaceful.

Just like the Krogans then, really. I suppose you chose to sabotage the cure as well.

[T-Raks]

Obeded the 2nd wrote...

Yes. this is a story, this is they way it works, the story shows this.
People who fail to understand this aren't idiots ( I was just getting frustrated) but they really do not understand a story if they cut out a part of the story that actually explains most of thier questions.

People are not cutting out a part, people are questioning the logic and people come to other solutions than the catalyst. That's what people with free will do, they believe in being responsible for what they do, so they question themselves and they don't put the accountability in the hands of a god child - who BTW is the "god" of their enemy.

If the catalyst was revealed as the "god"/creator of organics, OK, I can understand how religious people would tend to believe what he says and may follow his suggestions without questioning him (though I hope people would still question their own god to come to their own conclusion because that is everyones responsibility IMO).

But to believe/giving in to the god of your enemy without even questioning him? Just follow a flawed logic without any intervention? Yeah, right, thats how a good story works...