86 réponses à ce sujet

[termokanden]

Coming from a background of too much time spent in several MMOs, I know about tanking, healing and DPS. Played them all to death (and from beyond the grave it seems). I don't get tanking in this game, I really, really don't. It's so simple and yet it doesn't work very well. A lot of the time, it seems like tanking just isn't necessary, and grabbing aggro from the tank is far too easy anyway.

However, I'm quite amazed at how DW warriors just get the job done. Although it seems the consensus here is that DW rogues and mages do more damage, I'm thinking that DW warriors with their good survivability (who needs a tank!) and no need for setup or positioning still get the job done quicker. I can definitely tell the difference from using my mage: to my surprise, fights go quicker and easier now without my AoE and insane crowd controlling. The only real weakness is that even with high physical resistance, I still seem to get hit quite bad by knockdowns.

I'm wondering if a DW rogue could at all do better. You'd need to wait for the tank, which drastically reduces your effective DPS, or you would have to stun and get into position to backstab, and you don't really have a lot of stuns. Furthermore, my DW warrior setup does not seem to require a tank, meaning I can bring along more DPS instead.

That said, I am eager to try a rogue as well. Perhaps it will be fun in a slightly more... cerebral fashion.

[thakey_]

Dw rogues "IMO" are useless not worth the trouble and make me vomit with rage lol.

I got a level 15 DW warrior chick atm, I just use that, wade's superior dragonbone heavy chainmail. And i got like -6-9% fatigue so yeah warriors are the bomb diggity really. Still got alistair there to take the hits though, he is still handy. But really the amount of damage my DW dishes out is awesome.

My first character, was a tank but I still had good dps, well I think so seeing as he kept agro. Had damage boosting items, not very tanky for a tank, 28 cons or so. It's not worth having anyone in your party how does no damage in this game lol, like you said with the aggro thing.

[totertot]

My DW rogue could kick my DW warrior's butt.

The rogue is fast, has access to better skills and more stuns.

[termokanden]

I believe you. My mage could beat my warrior as well. However, I find the game easier playing my DW warrior for some reason.

[georgefromky]

I found the Rogue to be a waste of game time also. I switched to a Warrior and getting around much better. Bought the Soldiers Peak download to get better access to weapons and armor. Also, a master smithy. I found meteor and was able to transform stoneit into a sword beyound Tier 7. Also, downloaded the Blood Armor and found it heavy but very useful. Still cannot beat any Dragons ...

Modifié par georgefromky, 10 décembre 2009 - 10:40 .

[nuculerman]

It's kind of like rock, paper scissors.

In single target,: rogue beats mage and DW warrior

In AoE dot: Mage beats DW warrior and rogue

In AoE damage: DW warrior beats Mage and Rogue.

A mage can deal way more AoE damage but they have to be able to hold their enemies in one place for a decent stretch.  DW Warriors can almost insta kill whole mobs with two attacks.  If you put a rogue and a DW warrior on the same boss, in solo, the rogue would kill the boss faster by far.  But the DW warrior will kill a mob of enemies faster by far.  

[ogreballerina2]

I DW a rogue for RPing purposes only...and he's tough enough.



Min/maxing has never been my thing...

[apantoliani]

I've done both a DW Rogue (Duelist/Assassin) and a DW Warrior (Beserker/Templar) and they were both a lot of fun.



DW Rogue is very fast and does very high damage with the proper setup, but is quite squishy and you will definitely need a tank. I loved having the tank go in and demolishing the target from behind.



DW Warrior is slower, but much MUCH more survivable. Towards the end-game, I'd say the damage was almost more due to the less downtime from being incapacitated or having to micro-manage my party's tank and healer. It was a LOT of fun, much more fun imo than the DW Rogue. With the templar line, mages got raped.

[Gliese]

Stun: Dirty Fighting, Riposte, Shield Pummel, Scattershot, Stunning Blows, Holy Smite, MInd Blast, Waking Nightmare
Paralyze: Runes, Paralyzation, Mass Paralyzation, GOP

If you spec right you're not going to run out any time soon, not to mention the duelist pinpoint strike and higher crit from talent(s) that will also give backstabs.

Modifié par Gliese, 10 décembre 2009 - 10:53 .

[termokanden]

I guess that's what I'm trying to say nuculerman.



Regarding dragons, I think the key to beating them is Wynne, lots of cheap mana potions and only one person in melee range. Heal BEFORE you are badly injured and keep up Regeneration. It also helps if you can somehow stun the boss when it announces its special attacks (Cone of Cold works). Once I started treating dragon fights like I would have in an MMO, it all became very easy.

[Invalidcode]

Combat stealth, Evasion & Feign Death are crying in the corner, could someone give them a cookie, pretty please?

[rrphillip]

DW Warrior is way more fun then having two tanks or a 2H warrior.

[gunjinkane]

I'm going in one my third game now. I had a warrior, mage, and now a rouge. I like them all in their own ways and I'm finding that if you invest in the rouge a few levels you end up with plenty of tricks in the bag.

[termokanden]

I'm planning a rogue as well.



But honestly, I still don't find it completely obvious how to distribute attribute points for a DW rogue. I realize there's a tradeoff where cunning gives you slightly higher damage than dexterity because of talents, but then it doesn't give you attack. I have no idea how much attack you need or in other words when exactly to stop stacking dex.

[Slayer D]

My DW warrior is death on wheels. 

I ran a game with a DW warrior dwarf.  Trained allistair as DW warrior and had zev as DW rogue.  I literally didn't need a mage at all.  I had morrigan around for a couple heals here and there and sometimes she'd stun or forcefield a caster to make the battle just that much easier.

3 DW run up to meet the enemy force and each does a sweep.  It's basically over at that point.  And 3 flurries on the same guy does some serious damage on those harder targets.

[thakey_]

totertot wrote...

My DW rogue could kick my DW warrior's butt.
The rogue is fast, has access to better skills and more stuns.

Haha well I guess people like different styles, and fail at what they dislike. . which is what I did. Twice haha.

[Kalcalan]

DW Warrior is fine but in my experience it's nowhere as good as a DW Rogue. Building a Rogue is less straightforward and you have to micromanage its every move but IMO it's also more satisfying.

[magor1988x]

Just beat the game on Hard with a DW rogue...



Pick up the right talents and specialties and DW rogues are pretty awesome. I went Poisons, Assassin, Duelist, full DW, and then Lethality, Coup de Grace, and Combat Stealth.



This opened up for near constant crits, CC, and a number of debuffs. Survivability is high if you want to save Stealth to drop aggro from multiple mobs or powerful ones. You can always sacrifice one combat talent and go with Feign Death if you really want to be able to drop aggro.



Generally Warrior survivability is high because they come with more survivability talents. Powerful allows the wearing of heavy armors, Bravery, Disengage helps drop aggro... If you go Templar or Champion you can further your survivability.



Anyhow just don't understand the Rogue QQ in here. Rogues work well in my play throughs. I've done a full clear as a 2 handed Warrior and as a DW rogue and I am working on a DPS mage right now.

[simpatikool]

I have been playing on console and PC. The most fun I have had is with the 2H warrior (Reaver Spec) on the console. You have stuns, knockdowns, etc AOE, and you have an additional small AOE. Couple that with poison, and you can put out some constant AOE attacks. Really, its been fun.

[JJM152]

On paper, DW rogues appear superior to DW warriors. In practice however, DW warriors output far more damage over the course of the game.



No waiting for flanking, no worries about armor penetration, no hoping for a proc of paralyze in order to use Coup De Grace. Your special attacks are actually worth something as a warrior, with dual weapon sweep and whirlwind actually hitting for large chunks (my dual wield axe warrior would frequently get 200+ combined hits with these moves on multiple mobs).



Most importantly, the problem with the "paper" comparisons is that they rely upon contrived scenarios that don't exist in the game, such as: Not accounting for lost DPS time when moving in for a flank, or having to stun the enemy. Not counting for the loss (less optimal) dps done when you are not in a backstab position (further compounded by not accounting for average armor mitigation on the relatively weak dagger damage, which makes this dps "loss" even more substantial).



People who claim that DW rogues blow DW warriors out of the water are retards, pure and simple. They can theorycraft all day and have gigantic hypothetical wankfests with their calculators, but all they do is cherry pick data that has almost nothing to do with how the game actually plays.

[Nokturnal Lex]

I went DW Warrior (Beserker+Champion) had fun with it, could tank a little and aoe pretty decently while doing INSANE amounts of dmg with dual daggers + momentum + berserk single target.



Trying out DW Rogue (Duelist+Assassin) now, I'm still wearing good armor so I can tank just fine, the upsides are I can always vanish when I need to with stealth and I'm not forced to have the annoying red head or flamboyient french dude in my party to pick locks. The downsides are no perfect striking. +100 attack made it so I would never miss.



For pure damage DW warrior wins, for utility DW rogue wins.

[JJM152]

Nokturnal Lex wrote...

I went DW Warrior (Beserker+Champion) had fun with it, could tank a little and aoe pretty decently while doing INSANE amounts of dmg with dual daggers + momentum + berserk single target.

Axes. Seriously - minium dex to get the last dual wield talent, then STR dump and use dual axes. By the time I hit level 22 with my DW warrior I was critting on armored opponents for over 100pts a swing (136 I think was my record). 

They swing slower than swords/daggers, so the DPS numbers might look comparable but the maximum hit is higher (and scales bigger with more STR) which makes the instant attacks like dual sweep and whirlwind freaking uber.

[Nokturnal Lex]

Yea I tried dual axes as well but i found by the end of the game I didn't even have to use my skills, they actually slowed down my damage dealing, was quicker to just unload with normal attacks.

From what I could tell by comparing the 2, the daggers dealt about 2/3 of the damage with each hit but were hitting 2x faster.

Modifié par Nokturnal Lex, 11 décembre 2009 - 04:12 .

[JJM152]

Nokturnal Lex wrote...

Yea I tried dual axes as well but i found by the end of the game with max dex and good amount of str I didn't even have to use my skills, they actually slowed down my damage dealing, was quicker to just unload with normal attacks

Max dex? Obviously not optimal for axes. Dex only contributes to damage for daggers. That's probably why they stank for you.

Anyway, asides from that - the 2 aoe attacks in the DW line are REALLY good if you have built your guy for them and use appropriate weapons. I'm surprised I don't hear much about it... probably because most DW'ers are rogues and whirlwind with daggers is teh sux.

[congokurtz]

Nokturnal Lex wrote...


 I'm not forced to have the annoying red head or flamboyient french dude in my party to pick locks.

I always thought he sounded more Spanish than French.  He's like a slightly more effeminant sounding Antonio Banderas.