108 réponses à ce sujet

[Kuravid]

Recidiva wrote...

Kuravid wrote...

I just hate to share. Even for a little while.

Well, I hated getting Broodmother in my hair, but some things are less difficult to tolerate than others. 

All told, with a death sentence, all that we'd been through, and considering we're going to die young, that does seem a tad petty to get wrapped up in convention.

But then again I chose to die young for many reasons.  Getting to the point of being together means you already made him sleep with Morrigan anyway.

So having an heir surely is less...traumatic.  Technically another heir.

Off topic: I did have some values that I tried to stick with. Accepting Morrigan's offer went against those values, and not just the bit about making Alistair sleep with her. It was more like "a god child? Really? That's some crazy ****. No."

Back on topic: I just don't think one guy is worth all that trouble.

[Kuravid]

Recidiva wrote...
I...wiped...out...the...Blight.

You sure you want to tell me I can't do something?  Really?

You can't even become queen if you're not  of noble blood. Now how are you going to get some orphan child who had no impact on the blight whatsoever to become king?

[Herr Uhl]

Kuravid wrote...

Recidiva wrote...
I...wiped...out...the...Blight.

You sure you want to tell me I can't do something?  Really?

You can't even become queen if you're not  of noble blood. Now how are you going to get some orphan child who had no impact on the blight whatsoever to become king?

Well, magi can't have any station outside of GW or circle, or you are of another race. Loghain was a commoner and Anora becomes queen.

[The Angry One]

Kuravid wrote...

Recidiva wrote...
I...wiped...out...the...Blight.

You sure you want to tell me I can't do something?  Really?

You can't even become queen if you're not  of noble blood. Now how are you going to get some orphan child who had no impact on the blight whatsoever to become king?

Lying about it, possibly. No DNA tests in Ferelden!

[Recidiva]

Kuravid wrote...

Off topic: I did have some values that I tried to stick with. Accepting Morrigan's offer went against those values, and not just the bit about making Alistair sleep with her. It was more like "a god child? Really? That's some crazy ****. No."

Back on topic: I just don't think one guy is worth all that trouble.

Heh, well, I'm on my sixth playthrough.  But in terms of romance, my chosen ending for being truest to a character who is really in love with Alistair means I can't take Morrigan's deal, so really, there's no future.  I also can't bear to watch him die. 

The more pragmatic endings are not particularly romantic, they're selfish.

Oh, I know several men who are worth all that trouble.  Lucky me!  And I'm lucky  enough to be married to the bestest of those of my acquaintance.  More lucky me!  But my husband wouldn't have had to be dragged around Ferelden on my coattails and we would have worked it out together.  So extra special lucky me.  I have no problem roleplaying that sorta devotion and belief in true love being worth the sacrifice of a few social conventions.

And it's not so much about the worthiness of the person being loved, it's the lengths to which I'm willing to go to honor the love I feel.

[Recidiva]

Kuravid wrote...

You can't even become queen if you're not  of noble blood. Now how are you going to get some orphan child who had no impact on the blight whatsoever to become king?

Well, in the case of my Dalish elf that became Chancellor, I have no interest or care for Human customs or expectations.  I listen to people pray about the Maker all day too, I don't have to believe in their prayers.  I understand them and work with them.  Since it was my choice to make him King for Ferelden's benefit, I know he needs me there to guide him, and that will work out to everyone's benefit.  Anora would have decimated the elves, much less acceptable than him having to have sex with a woman to ensure an heir.

I did say the child would be of noble blood, and I have no doubt one could be located.  Or that I could forge documents and convince people the child is an undiscovered noble traceable back to anybody I choose.  Hell, there are apparently bastards strewn about the place.  I don't really care if the kid's noble.  I can convince everyone that the kid is.  Since Alistair and I are unable to have children and he's got a squick factor about sleeping with another woman, I have the Crow's connections, I have every Noble's vote or a way to threaten every single one of them to say it's a noble thing.

Thus it is a noble thing.

[Kuravid]

Recidiva wrote...

And it's not so much about the worthiness of the person being loved, it's the lengths to which I'm willing to go to honor the love I feel.

It's not about the person's worth, so much as it's about how much you're willing to do/put up with for that person. I have limits. Sleeping with hot chicks other than me is really pushing those limits.

But as for being selfish throughout other playthroughs, that's totally fine. However on my second playthrough I was pretty much done with the Alistair drama.

[Kuravid]

Recidiva wrote...

Well, in the case of my Dalish elf that became Chancellor, I have no interest or care for Human customs or expectations.  I listen to people pray about the Maker all day too, I don't have to believe in their prayers.  I understand them and work with them.  Since it was my choice to make him King for Ferelden's benefit, I know he needs me there to guide him, and that will work out to everyone's benefit.  Anora would have decimated the elves, much less acceptable than him having to have sex with a woman to ensure an heir.

I did say the child would be of noble blood, and I have no doubt one could be located.  Or that I could forge documents and convince people the child is an undiscovered noble traceable back to anybody I choose.  Hell, there are apparently bastards strewn about the place.  I don't really care if the kid's noble.  I can convince everyone that the kid is.  Since Alistair and I are unable to have children and he's got a squick factor about sleeping with another woman, I have the Crow's connections, I have every Noble's vote or a way to threaten every single one of them to say it's a noble thing.

Thus it is a noble thing.

Once again, that's a lot of work for one guy.

[Recidiva]

Kuravid wrote...

It's not about the person's worth, so much as it's about how much you're willing to do/put up with for that person. I have limits. Sleeping with hot chicks other than me is really pushing those limits.

But as for being selfish throughout other playthroughs, that's totally fine. However on my second playthrough I was pretty much done with the Alistair drama.

Well, if the choice is we both decide he "sleeps with a hot chick" and then tell me about it later or do without, if I'm in love, I'd rather not pick "do without." 

Husband and I already pretty much decided if we ever got that "million dollars for a night with your wife/husband" deal, we'd both say "Sure!"  Spend a night earning the payoff and then take the cash and enjoy our lives without having to work.

So it's not about what the price is that's being paid, it's about what you gain by paying it.  In this case, the price is negligible, unless you think Alistair is really going to fall for a noblewoman.  In which case, go, be happy.  I'll go find my own harem.

It's just not about insecurity of what happens.  If my true love finds his truer love, I'll cry a bit and then go find my truer love too.

[Recidiva]

Kuravid wrote...

Once again, that's a lot of work for one guy.

I have plenty of energy.  Not a problem.

[RPGmom28]

Honestly, the Alistair romance is my favorite right up until the point of the Landsmeet, upon which everything begins to suck. I love how romantic the writing is- great job, btw, writers- a male character I genuinely like enough for my character to want to romance. While some of that was Steve Valentine's charm, half of it was also good writing. The rose, the declaration, etc.... good stuff.



But in the end there's always a fly in the ointment. I wondered if Morrigan's abrasive personality was partially done in the way that it was just to make female players hate her with a passion. That way it would be all the more cruel to make us watch her make love with the character that we want to end up with our own character. It worked. It's a downer.



Therefore I've started to romance Zevran or just play males instead. On my first run through as Alistair's human mage girlfriend, my char let Morrigan sleep with him and made Anora queen so that at least Alistair and my mage would be able to be together for the rest of our short Grey Warden lives. Zev is amusing and straightforward, if not romantic. And he's not in any danger of being made king and snatched away from you, anyhow.

[Leg_lamp]

If you don't care about Ferelden, infidelity, or demonbabies, then you aren't lovelorn and should act how you want.   If these things do bother you though, you should let Alistair go, keep yourself alive, and move on with your life.

Ferelden:
Anora is a great queen - IF she is married to Hardened Alistair.   Solo Anora is a decent queen, unless your are a rioting city elf, but if she weds, this won't happen.  Furthermore, Alistair and Anora get to have a GOLDEN AGE.  If Ferelden was in Civilization 3, this means they could probably build the Pyramids FIRST (in your face Babylonia)!  Hardened Alistair is a good king, but there still isn't any golden age.  Queen PC and Alistair don't have a golden age, either.  Thus, the Anora/Alistair union is the best for Ferelden.

Infidelity:
If you would rather your man/yourself die than sleep with Morrigan, then face it, your relationship isn't on the most stable of grounds anyways.  If you don't like it that your man is married to the Queen,  then in all caps I say to you, FACE IT, HE'S NEVER GOING TO LEAVE HER!  Dump his ass and get someone else who appreciates your fine Grey Warden self.  Falling in love is lots of fun - give yourself a chance to do it again! 

Demonbabies: 
Since you are among lovelorn, I'm assuming you don't like them. Sadly, in order to have no demonbabies, someone has to die.  We shouldn't kill off King Alistair since it is better for Ferelden if he lives, no matter how pissed off we are at him.  We  also shouldn't kill Warden Alistair since we love him.  So this leaves you, and Loghain.

Loghain, Loghain, Loghain:
Face it, we have to do *something* with him.  Someone has to die, why should it be you? Offering Loghain redemption via Archdemon not only makes one feel warm and fuzzy, but also avoids the messy clean-up after the Landsmeet.

Self-Sacrifice:
I do admit that sacrificing yourself can be a sweet and noble gesture though.  Do you know what else is sweet? Living.

So give up Alistair at the Landsmeet, and move on with your life.  I know it is lame that didn't tell you he was a prince before sleeping with you, that he made you dump Leliana and Zevran on the same night, and that you didn't get the chance to tell him off when he dumps you.  Suck it up, because you are way better person than he is, even if you did pour blood on the ashes and kill Connor.

Modifié par Leg_lamp, 11 décembre 2009 - 01:21 .

[DeathWyrmNexus]

Adria Teksuni wrote...

If there was only some way to keep him alive and NOT have him flip out and abandon you, and yet not have him sleep with Morrigan.

We definitely goin' to go see a healer to make sure I ain't gettin' anything from the man after THAT.

Of all the negative things one could say about Morrigan, I wouldn't think diseased would be one of them... She is too obsessed with her appearance and her mother prefers the idea of being a black widow as opposed to a typhoid mary.

Just my humble opinion.

[Recidiva]

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

Of all the negative things one could say about Morrigan, I wouldn't think diseased would be one of them... She is too obsessed with her appearance and her mother prefers the idea of being a black widow as opposed to a typhoid mary.

Just my humble opinion.

I think you have a high chance of catching the mystical oogies, cooties, and wiggins.

And those are hard to cure.

[Leg_lamp]

Recidiva wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

Of all the negative things one could say about Morrigan, I wouldn't think diseased would be one of them... She is too obsessed with her appearance and her mother prefers the idea of being a black widow as opposed to a typhoid mary.

Just my humble opinion.

I think you have a high chance of catching the mystical oogies, cooties, and wiggins.

And those are hard to cure.

Urn of Ashes.

[Recidiva]

Leg_lamp wrote...

Urn of Ashes.

But be careful, hawkers are now selling copper bags of "Ashys of teh Marteer" and those don't work as well.  You might catch something else.

Ferelden economy really isn't doing so well.

[the_red_queen]

RPGmom28 wrote...

I wondered if Morrigan's abrasive personality was partially done in the way that it was just to make female players hate her with a passion.

You think? I actually really like the friendship/sisterhood possible between Morrigan & a female PC. I was genuinely moved when she told my mage that whilst she might not always be worthy of my friendship, she would always value it.

And I'm with the OP on the greatest happiness for the greatest number being to marry Alistair to Anora and make Loghain a Grey Warden. But I actually like the idea of a reincarnated old god, so I let Loghain get his rocks off with Morrigan (though it's very spooky seeing him with exactly the same facial expressions as Alistair had in that sex scene).

Modifié par Zoev, 11 décembre 2009 - 01:27 .

[Curlain]

Recidiva wrote...

DeathWyrmNexus wrote...

Of all the negative things one could say about Morrigan, I wouldn't think diseased would be one of them... She is too obsessed with her appearance and her mother prefers the idea of being a black widow as opposed to a typhoid mary.

Just my humble opinion.

I think you have a high chance of catching the mystical oogies, cooties, and wiggins.

And those are hard to cure.

Possibly true, but she's worth the risk

[Recidiva]

Zoev wrote...

You think? I actually really like the friendship/sisterhood possible between Morrigan & a female PC. I was genuinely moved when she told my mage that whilst she might not always be worthy of my friendship, she would always value it.

And I'm with the OP on the greatest happiness for the greatest number being to marry Alistair to Anora and make Loghain a Grey Warden. But I actually like the idea of a reincarnated old god, so I let Loghain get his rocks off with Morrigan (though it's very spooky seeing him with exactly the same facial expressions as Alistair had in that sex scene).

I liked Morrigan as a female PC.  Her little eyebrow draw and the quaver in her voice is perfect in the part you mention.

I actually got more oogied out as a male having her say "My tent is cold"

Oh.  Well.  Ew.  Fine, let's get this over with. 

[the_red_queen]

Recidiva wrote...

I liked Morrigan as a female PC.  Her little eyebrow draw and the quaver in her voice is perfect in the part you mention.

I actually got more oogied out as a male having her say "My tent is cold"

Oh.  Well.  Ew.  Fine, let's get this over with. 

Ooh yes - yuck. I wanted the line you get to use on Zevran - "this coy thing work for you much?" or similar. Really, she can do better than that.

Modifié par Zoev, 11 décembre 2009 - 01:44 .

[*Di]

I'm confused. Alistair is the bastard son of a king, and now he's king. Why wouldn't the bastard son of Alistair and his beloved mistress also be heir to the throne? Fereldan can't have it both ways. Either king's blood is king's blood, or Alistair can't be heir to the throne. Plot hole. LOL!

[Curlain]

Might be sensible though, particularly if we don't accept the Alistair is Fiona's child theory, but take the game's explination at face value, because then who knows what other children Maric might have sired out there (and all could have a equal claim to the throne as Alistair)

[Leg_lamp]

In all seriousness, I really liked Morrigan as a female friend to the female PC (I know people irl who act like her actually), but didn't find her attractive as a love interest to a male PC, because she when she wants nookie she does this sickenly sweet 360.  

If Alistair can be heir to the throne, then by logic so should his demonbaby.  I actually really do hope Allistair is Fiona's baby, because one of the plot points I did find really implausible, was that Alistair was made a Gray Warden to begin with.  He might have been a bastard, but Cailan and Anora hadn't been able to have any babies either for several years.  Making him a Gray Warden before there was another heir to throne ready, seemed like a really bad idea to me.  If he was Fiona's son, it would make a bit more sense to me.

I think King Alistair's issue with the female PC  was that it would be almost impossible them to procreate. He even can bring up the fertility issue in before he tells you he is a prince, shortly after the first time you sleep together.  

King Alistair can get over this if he is hardened, and would still marry a human noblewoman, but he can't get over the political obstacles of marrying a non human or mage.  I guess if you were Alistair's mistress and he miraculously did knock you up, then your baby would be a possible heir too.  But I guess it is unlikely.

Back on topic: you should let him break up with him at Landsmeet.

[syllogi]

Leg_lamp wrote...

Back on topic: you should let him break up with him at Landsmeet.

For story purposes, if they were going to make any plot point canon, I think Alistair and Anora marrying and ruling together makes sense.  It is a peaceful resolution to the civil war, and leads to a time of peace in the kingdom.  Even Loghain joining the Grey Wardens and sacrificing himself would be a fitting canon resolution.

But in *my* game, on my computer?  OH HELL NAW.  Off with Loghain's psychotic, traitorous, slaving head, and his elf-hating, power hungry, two-faced daughter gets dragged to the tower.  Alistair rules with me or alone.

Leaving Anora to rule is a good idea for romance purposes if you're a non-noble who wants to stay with Alistair, but I haven't been able to do it yet.  As much as I adore Alistair's character, I hate Loghain more.

[Recidiva]

Leg_lamp wrote...

In all seriousness, I really liked Morrigan as a female friend to the female PC (I know people irl who act like her actually), but didn't find her attractive as a love interest to a male PC, because she when she wants nookie she does this sickenly sweet 360.  

If Alistair can be heir to the throne, then by logic so should his demonbaby.  I actually really do hope Allistair is Fiona's baby, because one of the plot points I did find really implausible, was that Alistair was made a Gray Warden to begin with.  He might have been a bastard, but Cailan and Anora hadn't been able to have any babies either for several years.  Making him a Gray Warden before there was another heir to throne ready, seemed like a really bad idea to me.  If he was Fiona's son, it would make a bit more sense to me.

I think King Alistair's issue with the female PC  was that it would be almost impossible them to procreate. He even can bring up the fertility issue in before he tells you he is a prince, shortly after the first time you sleep together.  

King Alistair can get over this if he is hardened, and would still marry a human noblewoman, but he can't get over the political obstacles of marrying a non human or mage.  I guess if you were Alistair's mistress and he miraculously did knock you up, then your baby would be a possible heir too.  But I guess it is unlikely.

Back on topic: you should let him break up with him at Landsmeet.

If you let him break up with you, he spends the rest of the game miserable and ends up apologizing on the rooftop for making such a stupid mistake.  I'd rather he wasn't guilty or that someone let him make a very big mistake he'll regret later.  Like, say, if you're dead.

If love is being honored here, then you don't give up on it and you don't let the person you love think that they should ever give up on it either.  That's just as big of a regret factory as taking Morrigan's deal.  I can only imagine being in love with him and telling him flat out you can't see him die will at least result in grief and knowing he was loved rather than grief, guilt and having him feel he trashed something precious.

Yes, if your main goal is to keep him healthy and alive, accept Loghain and have him marry Anora.  But that's not...love.  Not romantic love, anyway.  That's sacrificing love and making it seem like it never happened.  In that case, don't romance Alistair at all.  Watch over him like a parent or a friend and not as a mate. 

Modifié par Recidiva, 11 décembre 2009 - 06:46 .