320 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Han Shot First wrote...
Entitlement is demanding that Bioware cater to your interests by making every character a romance option for the protagonist.

Okay, so...if you play a straight protagonist, you can typically access any LI that would be of interest to you.

Straight dude:  all the ladies.

Straight chick:  all the dudes.

People who like to play homosexual protagonists are asking for the same.

Gay lady:  all the ladies.

Gay dude:  all the dudes.

How is that entitlement?  Unless you mean, the homosexual PCs aren't deserving of such a thing in the first place?

How dare people ask for an equal shot at finding a good LI for their homosexual PC that the heterosexual PCs enjoy by default!

Modifié par jlb524, 29 mai 2012 - 07:02 .

[Han Shot First]

jlb524 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
Entitlement is demanding that Bioware cater to your interests by making every character a romance option for the protagonist.

Okay, so...if you play a straight protagonist, you can typically access any LI that would be of interest to you.

Straight dude:  all the ladies.

Straight chick:  all the dudes.

People who like to play homosexual protagonists are asking for the same.

Gay lady:  all the ladies.

Gay dude:  all the dudes.

How is that entitlement?  Unless you mean, the homosexual PCs aren't deserving of such a thing in the first place?

Samantha Traynor and Steve Cortez are homosexual romance options only.

Liara and Kaidan are bisexual.

Your post = epic fail.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 29 mai 2012 - 07:04 .

[Blacklash93]

Han Shot First wrote...
Entitlement is demanding that Bioware cater to your interests by making every character a romance option for the protagonist.

Entitlement is demanding something and expecting it just 'cause you want it. I don't see any of that in this thread. Rather I just see a lot of hostile comments.

All gay fans want is S/S romances to be in there in some way and anything more specific than that isn't something they're going to make a big deal over. "All bi" things and specific characters aren't going to be made a huge issue if they aren't in.

[Blacklash93]

Han Shot First wrote...
Samantha Traynor and Steve Cortez are homosexual romance options only.

Liara and Kaidan are bisexual.

Your post = epic fail.

ME3 is most likely the exception and not the rule. DA:O and JE had all O/S romance options available to straight PCs with only one S/S (with a bi character) available to gay PCs.

The DA team, for example, is quite insistent that gay-only romance options are not feasable or worth it to them.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 29 mai 2012 - 07:17 .

[jlb524]

Han Shot First wrote...
Samantha Traynor and Steve Cortez are homosexual romance options only.

How often do you see that?

They are also non-squadmate characters.

I also said 'typically'.

Han Shot First wrote... 
Liara and Kaidan are bisexual.

Um...yeah?  And they are available to heterosexual Shepard too.

Han Shot First wrote...  
Your post = epic fail.

I doubt you are even reading my posts considering you keep dodging the 'realism' point made a few posts ago.

Modifié par jlb524, 29 mai 2012 - 07:09 .

[Fidget6]

Nope, I think Bioware did it right having some LI's be o/s only, some available to both, some s/s only, and other characters be pseudo-romances or just not available at all. Just like in real life,  you're not going to have a shot with everyone, and not everyone is going to have the sexual preference that you want them to have just because you'd like to have a chance to boink them.

Modifié par Fidget6, 29 mai 2012 - 07:25 .

[HellbirdIV]

Fidget6 wrote...

Just like in real life,  you're not going to have a shot with everyone, and not everyone is going to have the sexual preference that you want them to have just because you'd like to have a chance to boink them.

So Renegade Sheps should only be able to romance Ashley, Miranda and Jack, since RenShep doesn't really seem the type to appeal to any of the other LI's.

But that's not what we have. The characters aren't straight or gay or bisexual, they are Shepardsexual.

[deathlord413]

mauro2222 wrote...

deathlord413 wrote...

What I think he is refering to is the "Brothers in Arms" kind of a friendship. For some guys having another man come on to them *might* cause them to lose respect for the guy. It's not thier fault, they are born that way. 

Then it is their problem. They aren't born that way, they are raised that way.

And if what you tell me is true, then they're not only bad friends, but have a really bad meaning of friendship.

This is starting to drift into the whole nature vs nurture argument. There are parts of a persons personality that are hardwired into who they are. These can be changed but it takes more than sheer force of will to do so, drugs, psychological controls, etc. Then there is the way the person is raised which has a strong impact but isn't always compareable to the natrual tendencies of a person. 

In [the case I was refering to] it may be that a man became a soldier out a desire to protect what he knows and destroy what is different. Homosexuality is different from the norm for two reasons:

A) It is not currently socialy acceptable
It is a biological quirck which makes little sense when you look at the grand scheme of Evolution. 

Humans have another quirck which is monogamy. There are only a few other animals that exhibit this trait and as far as I'm aware there are no same sex partners in those species. The species that do exhibit homosexual behavior normally don't have single partners and still go with members of the opposite sex. 


Also a "Brothers in Arms" friendship is different from one that you form on your own. Normally it is formed under duress and in tough conditions. You look to your "Brother" for support and to watch your back, so that you stay alive. It is not an emotional bond that one creates in order have some kind of intimacy with another. In those situations emotions are seen as a weakness and a hinderance. This is part of nature in that we a species are violent and cruel, no ifs, ands, nor buts about it. Our society perpetuates that part of ourselves because to be anything else risks destruction. If one side is seen as weak they will inevitably be attacked, just like if one is seen as an oppressor. Though the reasons behind those attacks will be different. 

Modifié par deathlord413, 29 mai 2012 - 07:39 .

[jlb524]

Fidget6 wrote...
Just like in real life,

Oh this again.

[FoxShadowblade]

One of the things that bugged me in DA2 was the fact anyone would be willing to have a relationship with Hawke. Regardless of gender, or what they were doing in life at the time.

Personally I would like it to be some squadmates only romanceable by males, some by females, some are bi or gay, and some just aren't. Like ME1's model: Ash for Sheploos, Kaidan for Femshep, Liara for both, Wrex, Garrus and Tali, not available. Not them specifically, just something like that.

How is that a bad thing?

[jlb524]

FoxShadowblade wrote...
One of the things that bugged me in DA2 was the fact anyone would be willing to have a relationship with Hawke. Regardless of gender, or what they were doing in life at the time.

Personally I would like it to be some squadmates only romanceable by males, some by females, some are bi or gay, and some just aren't. Like ME1's model: Ash for Sheploos, Kaidan for Femshep, Liara for both, Wrex, Garrus and Tali, not available. Not them specifically, just something like that.

How is that a bad thing?

Because...

You are only limiting romance opportunity with sexuality/gender and nothing else that one could/should limit romance by realistically.

Why discriminate solely based on that?

Why does considering sexuality trump morality, physical appearance, behaviors, etc?

Modifié par jlb524, 29 mai 2012 - 08:02 .

[deathlord413]

jlb524 wrote...

FoxShadowblade wrote...
One of the things that bugged me in DA2 was the fact anyone would be willing to have a relationship with Hawke. Regardless of gender, or what they were doing in life at the time.

Personally I would like it to be some squadmates only romanceable by males, some by females, some are bi or gay, and some just aren't. Like ME1's model: Ash for Sheploos, Kaidan for Femshep, Liara for both, Wrex, Garrus and Tali, not available. Not them specifically, just something like that.

How is that a bad thing?

Because...

You are only limiting romance opportunity with sexuality/gender and nothing else that one could/should limit romance by realistically.

Why discriminate solely based on that?

Why does considering sexuality trump morality, physical appearance, behaviors, etc?

Why can't the writers be free to write characters who aren't bi? What if they gave you the option to try and romance characters, but for whatever reason those characters refuses your advances, like Traynor. I liked flirting with her because she has one of the best voices in ME3 and I was blown away when she said that she wasn't interested in my Shepard. It was great. The idea that my Shepard couldn't have someone who was the opposite sex because they weren't interested in him was a brilliant idea. That was probably another reason I liked Samar in ME2. She admits that she has feelings for Shepard, but refuses to act on them.

The idea of putting failed romances in games hasn't been tried yet, but I think it needs to start. Right now the system is too simplistic in that in only requires you to try and initiate a romance with a character. What they need is a system where depending on your actions *and* your gender will determine what romances are available. Maybe even make a characters sexuality or personality a random variable.

It would require more voice work and writing to accomplish, but I think BW is one of the few companies that at one point was able to attempt that. Thanks to thier new overlords though I'm not so sure. 

[jeweledleah]

until such time that developers learn to create relationships that evolve organically based on behavior and are limited, organically based on behavior, that have to be initiated by the player, but at the same time - don't feel like player is going around sexually harrasing everyone?

gender limitation is the only one that can be feasibly and easily done.

I don't see it as any different then limiting abilities to specific classes. limitations of this nature encourage replay-ability.

I've given up on character consistency at this point. in a world where comic book writers change origins, appearance, powers, attitude, you name it, of a character through different story arcs? I suppose I should be thankful when characters at least retain majority of the above.

and yes, characters in bioware games are playersexual rather then posessing actual sexuality, aproximately 95% of the time.  the only exceptions I can think of, from the top of my head are Liara, Zevran, Isabela and Leliana.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 29 mai 2012 - 08:22 .

[gearseffect]

jlb524 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...
Samantha Traynor and Steve Cortez are homosexual romance options only.

How often do you see that?

They are also non-squadmate characters.

I also said 'typically'.

Han Shot First wrote... 
Liara and Kaidan are bisexual.

Um...yeah?  And they are available to heterosexual Shepard too.

Han Shot First wrote...  
Your post = epic fail.

I doubt you are even reading my posts considering you keep dodging the 'realism' point made a few posts ago.

Han Shot Frist's  mindset = Epic Fail, because Han Shot First's mindset  = Bigotry  which a Bigot always = Epic Fail.

[Theodoro]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

No! That is unrealistic. Some people are straight and some are gay.

Indeed. And that's part of their character. Sorry, but that's a big no.

[daecath]

No, it should make sense for the character. There are plenty of options for both genders and orientations, so I like the fact that these are real characters that have their own preferences. Garrus is a great friend, but he's not going to be interested in BroShep. Same for Tali and FemShep. There is one character that I would change though, and that's Jack. She already states that she's bi, so why wouldn't she be a possible LI for FemShep? Other than that, it has to make sense for the character. If you want to romance someone who isn't interested in your character, make another playthrough with the opposite sex and give it a try. That's part of the fun of a game like this.

[Siibi]

Why not? It's a game and my Femshep would love to romance Miranda and/or Jack

[MadRabbit999]

Personally I do not have any problems with this, but I am tired of girl on girl action only to please the guys.

It is just as creepy as guys that thinks behaving like an anime character and talking like them all day, is cute... no it isn't, girls find it creepy... and a guy fighting for the rights  to be a fictional lesbian is even more creepy.

Modifié par MadRabbit999, 29 mai 2012 - 08:48 .

[G00N3R7883]

I'm strongly on the side of "no" here. I believe it would cheapen the companions if they were ALL bisexual.

[avenging_teabag]

Absolutely not.

Modifié par avenging_teabag, 29 mai 2012 - 09:24 .

[Shallyah]

MadRabbit999 wrote...

Personally I do not have any problems with this, but I am tired of girl on girl action only to please the guys.

It is just as creepy as guys that thinks behaving like an anime character and talking like them all day, is cute... no it isn't, girls find it creepy... and a guy fighting for the rights  to be a fictional lesbian is even more creepy.

Kinda the way I feel, but I don't know how to say it without sounding too offensive, and especially without offending players that really are girls and maybe they'd really like to try a relationship with Tali, Miranda, etc, which I'd find a valid request.

End of the day, the diference between % of players that are guys who pick female characters to fantasize being a girl and get horny at lesbian scenes vs the % of players who are bisex girls who would like to experience more romantic options is probably something like 99% vs 1%.

So no, you can't get under Tali's suit as femshep to satisfy your deviated sexual fantasies. ME is a RPG game, not a dating game. And if it was up to me, I'd remove every sex scenes so people really value the relationship itself, and not the fleshy bits.

Modifié par Shallyah, 29 mai 2012 - 09:35 .

[Vigilant111]

It would be very costly for BW to implement such a thing, a game is a game, not reality, to enable so many romance options they will have to limit the amount of characters, which cuts down the diversity of the game

[fchopin]

Samantha Traynor and Steve Cortez are homosexual romance options only and both are great characters because of that. I love both of them in the game.

DA2 characters were so boring and predictable; i never played an RPG that i was so disappointed with characters before.

I never do male with male romances but playing male shepard with Steve Cortez was really inspiring for me as i could play as a friend and was very moved with helping Steve.

I say no more every character is everything in the game, it cheapens characters and makes them empty.

[Jackums]

No. It would take away from their individuality and sense of identity. Sexuality is a big part of who someone is. Personally, it would take away from their characters to make them all the "same".

[Vapaa]

Yes they should

fchopin wrote...

Samantha Traynor and Steve Cortez are homosexual romance options only and both are great characters because of that. I love both of them in the game.

No, Samantha is not great because she's lesbian, but because she's just a good character on her own, if they retconned her to be bi, she would be exactly the same person
Same goes for Steve, or Tali, or, Miranda, or Garrus, etc....

Modifié par Vapaä, 29 mai 2012 - 09:59 .