320 réponses à ce sujet

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

not everyone should be straight, and not everyone should be bisexual or Gay, it negates realism if everyone has the same sexual orientation.

[HellbirdIV]

There's nothing realistic about the current love interest romance plots though, which is a point that's been made over and over again. Your choices and behaviour doesn't impact how characters act towards you, as long as you pick the X number of special "Romance" dialogue options when talking to them.

Being straight or gay doesn't mean you are attracted to everyone of the "target" gender. Personality and appearance are big deciding points, yet a ridiculously ugly FemShep will still have Kaidan AND Jacob lusting for her and Thane can still fall in love with her even if she's a psychopath who's exactly the kind of person Thane spent most of his life hunting down and killing.

Realism, hooooooo!

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 29 mai 2012 - 10:05 .

[Theodoro]

HellbirdIV wrote...

There's nothing realistic about the current love interest romance plots though, which is a point that's been made over and over again. Your choices and behaviour doesn't impact how characters act towards you, as long as you pick the X number of special "Romance" dialogue options when talking to them.

That does not mean that everything needs to be unrealistic...

[SevastianFV]

I don't care how straight/gay you are, you would at least strongly consider Commander Shepard. Be honest.

Ahem. I don't know, my first thought is that it sure would be nice. But at the same time, as a queer person who's necessarily been dwelling on this kind of thing for as long as I've been alive, I think there's something unique about an attraction to someone and a relationship with them depending on the genders. The "feel" is different. It's just the way of some people that they can't access it, you have to be able to connect in a certain way with a masculine or feminine personality. It's not just plain sexual attraction, it's more complicated and ephemeral.

I liked that Samantha Traynor and Steve Cortez were same gender only options. I can't see Traynor going for Broshep, I just don't see her connecting with men in that way, and I think that's okay. But at the same time, if she was written so that she could have, would it diminish her character, or her interactions with FemShep? Well, no. Would it have changed her character and nature, either slightly or in a way that's fundamental? I'm not sure, it's a hard question. Probably not. (Fun question to ask yourself: how much is that ability to connect, the way that you've fallen for someone or the way that you love, tied into your identity, your actions, and your nature?)

Anyway, I'm fine with the way things are (slightly disappointed by the enduring heterosexuality of Garrus Vakarian, but at least we had an epic bromance), but I wouldn't be complaining if you could romance everyone on the Normandy, either. One of the interesting things about the Mass Effect universe is the things people have put aside in order to become a cohesive species. (For better or for worse; a lot of it is probably motivated by the "bigger problem" of speciesism. Is that a word?) I was interested by the woman who was disowned for marrying an asari, it didn't seem like her having a wife instead of a husband was an issue at all. I could see humans having put aside sexual orientation in the same way they put aside other issues. Is it realistic? I don't know, we can't answer that. Sexuality is so tied into cultural expectations, gender roles, possibly biology, we can't say for certain what creates a bisexual. Is it plausible? Yeah, I would've bought it.

(As for aliens, they're aliens, every other species in the galaxy could be bisexual, pansexual, asexual, whatever, and it's hard to argue with that because they don't exist. If I ever get around to playing DA2 everybody being romanceable probably won't bug me since that world is fantasy and not science fiction and isn't meant to be extrapolated from the real world. I mean, if there are elves running around, your suspension of disbelief has bigger problems.)

[fchopin]

Vapaä wrote...

Yes they should

fchopin wrote...

Samantha Traynor and Steve Cortez are homosexual romance options only and both are great characters because of that. I love both of them in the game.

No, Samantha is not great because she's lesbian, but because she's just a good character on her own, if they retconned her to be bi, she would be exactly the same person
Same goes for Steve, or Tali, or, Miranda, or Garrus, etc....

Disagree with you, i was surprised when Samantha Traynor said no to male shepard because she was lesbian and i loved it, real characters behaving in a real way. It made me respect her even more. That is what i like, real characters behaving realistically.
 
If i wanted a relationship with her than i had to play a female shepard and this is what makes both Steve and Samantha much more believable.

Modifié par fchopin, 29 mai 2012 - 10:08 .

[HellbirdIV]

Theodoro wrote...

That does not mean that everything needs to be unrealistic...

So it's okay for the romance options to be unrealistic when they only cater to heterosexual male players, but when we're asking for more varied romances for bi/gay players suddenly realism must be added to stop it?

BS.

fchopin wrote...

Disagree
with you, i was surprised when Samantha Traynor said no to male shepard
because she was lesbian and i loved it, real characters behaving in a
real way. It made me respect her even more. That is what i like, real
characters behaving realistically.

I hated Traynor, playing as FemShep. She's an obnoxious little Mary Sue whose lesbianism is strongly shoved onto the player - I romanced Liara so my FemShep isn't against it, but lady, be professional please. I don't need to be told you're gay every single chance you get, okay? If it was just once I'd be fine with it, but christ...

I liked how they handled it with Cortez because... He's gay, and that's that. He doesn't go talking about how gay he is, talking about fashion, fruity drinks and "checking out boys" or other stereotypes like that, but he does make a stealthy gay-joke at Vega's expense. He's a character who just happens to be gay, and that's just dandy. It never felt in-your-face like Traynor.

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 29 mai 2012 - 10:14 .

[ComfortablyNumb]

EsterCloat wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

MoonsKisu wrote...

I don't like that Kaidan was suddenly bisexual. He should have been that way from the start.

And he said he wasn't when?

When he didn't go for MaleShep in ME1.

Neither did Garrus for FemShep  or Tali for broShep in ME1. So why it's not a problem that sudednly they are attracted to humans in ME2? Because I'd say interspecies relationships are even less probable that ******- or bisexual ones among humans. So it was all fanservice as well.

[Helios969]

No, they shouldn't all be. But more options would have been nice. I would have liked my femShep to be able to hook up with Tali. Jack probably should have been romancible character for femShep since she admits to past bisex.

[Vapaa]

fchopin wrote...

Disagree with you, i was surprised when Samantha Traynor said no to male shepard because she was lesbian and i loved it, real characters behaving in a real way. It made me respect her even more. That is what i like, real characters behaving realistically.

So you loved her because of her sexual orientation ?

Scrap her homosexuality and you got....Samantha Traynor, nothing more, nothing less, she still love chess, she's still adorkable....she's still her; sexual orientation is not what defines a character

[tomcplotts]

I can't stand the whole LI thing at the level of principle, but if you're going to have it, let the player have the power to decide who he or she wants to play house with. But that's gonna explode disc space and script writing. I think you have to have some basic limitations, but don't pigeonhole players into a small range of characters only available to certain orientations and not others.

This whole soap opera jones is making me dread DA3. Hopefully they don't forget about dragons while designing 5000 cutscenes around giving flowers to characters.

[fchopin]

Vapaä wrote...

So you loved her because of her sexual orientation ?

No i loved her because of who she was, she is who she is and one of the reasons is her sexual orientation.

[HellbirdIV]

Related topic:

It really bugs me that the same sex romance options are almost always the same.

Male/Male: Athletic but not overly burly man who is strong-headed but sensetive and intelligent.

Female/Female: Geeky "cute" lipstick lesbian who is out of place in the grim dark reality of war and needs comforting and support. (Who's surprised Tali was intended as a same-sex option in 2 before they cut it? No-one?  I thought so.)

No MaleShep hooking up with sexy mysterious Thane, no FemShep hooking up with the butch, aggressive Jack.

The closest we got was the romantic conversation you can have with Samara as a Paragon... Well, assuming you're not playing MaleShep, in which case you don't get shiet.

Modifié par HellbirdIV, 29 mai 2012 - 10:48 .

[GreyWardenNathan]

Not every character should be bi. to me there should be 2 o/s, 2s/s and 1 or 2 bi. that wi
ould give every one around 3 choices. but the problem being the amount of writing etc and it would have to have 6 or more squadmates as i dont think every squadmate should be romancable. me3 had 3 non romancable squadies and only 4 that were 3 of which could be female or 2 male. the 2 s/s only were non squad. so a bit of change around would be better than making everyone bi. Decisions should effect relationships to a bit like da.

[Shallyah]

Vapaä wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Disagree with you, i was surprised when Samantha Traynor said no to male shepard because she was lesbian and i loved it, real characters behaving in a real way. It made me respect her even more. That is what i like, real characters behaving realistically.

So you loved her because of her sexual orientation ?

Scrap her homosexuality and you got....Samantha Traynor, nothing more, nothing less, she still love chess, she's still adorkable....she's still her; sexual orientation is not what defines a character

Scrap that she loves chess. She still is Samantha Traynor, nothing more, nothing less, she's still adorable... she's still her; loving chess is not what defines a character.

And scrap that she is adorable. She still is Samantha Traynor, nothing more, nothing less... she's still her; being adorable is not what defines a character.

Scrap everything, Samantha Traynor is a blue 10x10 centimeter cube. She still is Samantha Traynor, nothing more, nothing less... she's still her; being Samantha Traynor is not what defines Samantha Traynor.

Modifié par Shallyah, 29 mai 2012 - 10:54 .

[Vapaa]

Shallyah wrote...

Scrap that she loves chess. She still is Samantha Traynor, nothing more, nothing less, she's still adorable... she's still her; loving chess is not what defines a character.

And scrap that she is adorable. She still is Samantha Traynor, nothing more, nothing less... she's still her; being adorable is not what defines a character.

Scrap everything, Samantha Traynor is a blue 10x10 centimeter cube. She still is Samantha Traynor, nothing more, nothing less... she's still her; being Samantha Traynor is not what defines Samantha Traynor.

Exactly, what defines Samantha Traynor is a whole bunch of things, scraping ONE thing will not made her different, scraping everything will sure makes her different

[Hvlukas]

 (First post here)

I'm one of the "new demographics" Bioware has probably reached with Mass Effect, that being a gay guy, who's not overly passionate about games in general, but will spend quite some money, when I find one I like.

And (shamefully) I have to admit, that I was attracted to Mass Effect because of its sexual inclusivenes (recommended by my little brother in fact), and I thought finally: a game that doesn't ignore me and the choices I would like to make. To that end - Mass Effect got a life long fan in me.

But everybody being bi and optional for romance? Nah. I'd rather not.

I thought Cortez was really well written in Mass Effect 3, a fully formed individual with a tragedy in his story, and an individual who even had some funny dialogue going with James Vega (it brought richness to the story, that whoever Cortez was as a person, was something that was known by others and was playfully teased with. Plus, I must admit, to a gay man like myself, having the universe "accept" a guy like Cortez by a guy like James Vega, was uplifting).

I romanced Kaiden, whom I thought of as a bi character, and because of that it made sense he would have had girlfriends in the past (though, his case could have been stronger had a boyfriend been mentioned briefly, so his "bi"-ness didn't seem to only exist if I wanted him to be so). I regret Bioware didn't make Kaiden an option for romance in Mass Effect 1, as I think the events in Mass Effect 2 with the romance going, could have had quite an emotional impact. (Or maybe I just really like Kaiden, and want Bioware to give me more;))

All that said, admitting that yes, I'm one of the players who was actually attracted to the games in the first place by Bioware's tolerance for diversity, I'd definitely rather see games, where characters are who they are. say, Kaiden or Ashley were bi, and could be romanced by both genders; while Liara and Jacob were straight, and Cortez and Jack (or Miranda?) were gay. I'd rather Bioware write their characters sexuality, and let ME choose, if I want to play with that, be it straight, gay or teaming up with a bi character.

It's unrealistic (yeah, I know, "unrealistic in a sci fi game!) to have everybody be bisexual,  yet realistic (and preferable) to have the character you're hitting on say: "Oh Shepard, if I was gay/straight you'd be my first choice, but I'm not that kind of person" would be great. It would add to the universe, that even characters you don't get to romance acknowledge the "you" you choose to play. 



A far more pressing issue to me is to have the romance have a consequence in the game, so it's not just spice and The Sims. Could you have a mini-mission come up, if you choose to romance? Maybe the lucky couple takes time off on a remote, peacefull resort? Maybe they bring condoms and no weapons? Maybe the bad guys attack and you need to get back on the normady with your romance with little less than a toothbrush as your weapon?
Anyway, I'd like the whole romance situation not to be just  some bare skin (though, they still could crank up heat in the bare-skin-scene, it is mostly adults playing these days isn't it), with no connections to the plot or story.

Any way, my two cents. Sorry for bad English and the many words. And "hi".

Modifié par Hvlukas, 29 mai 2012 - 11:03 .

[gearseffect]

HellbirdIV wrote...

Related topic:

It really bugs me that the same sex romance options are almost always the same.

Male/Male: Athletic but not overly burly man who is strong-headed but sensetive and intelligent.

Female/Female: Geeky "cute" lipstick lesbian who is out of place in the grim dark reality of war and needs comforting and support. (Who's surprised Tali was intended as a same-sex option in 2 before they cut it? No-one?  I thought so.)

No MaleShep hooking up with sexy mysterious Thane, no FemShep hooking up with the butch, aggressive Jack.

The closest we got was the romantic conversation you can have with Samara as a Paragon... Well, assuming you're not playing MaleShep, in which case you don't get shiet.

WTF? TO all my knowledge Samara don't give anything different to Male or Female Sheps, it's the same regardless of gender, but ya have to be a paragon. If there was a difference between what Male Shep gets and FemShep gets I'd be even more broker hearted and I'd be raging, and WTF this is pure BS! BW screwing us over since ME2 with Samara.

Yeah to the best of my understanding there is nothing differnt between MaleShep/Samara and FemShep/Samara.

[Bob3terd]

Not every one is bi.
We need dedicated homosexual characters, hetero, and bi's.

[malakim2099]

Bob3terd wrote...

Not every one is bi.
We need dedicated homosexual characters, hetero, and bi's.

Problem is that there were a lot of #2, and very little #1/#3.

[fchopin]

Each person is shaped by their experiences in life and sexual preferences are also experiences that influence characters so pretending that this is not so is not correct imo.

I have no problem if Bioware includes all types of characters in the games they make, but i do have a problem if all characters have the same sexual preference.

[Shallyah]

Vapaä wrote...

Shallyah wrote...

Scrap that she loves chess. She still is Samantha Traynor, nothing more, nothing less, she's still adorable... she's still her; loving chess is not what defines a character.

And scrap that she is adorable. She still is Samantha Traynor, nothing more, nothing less... she's still her; being adorable is not what defines a character.

Scrap everything, Samantha Traynor is a blue 10x10 centimeter cube. She still is Samantha Traynor, nothing more, nothing less... she's still her; being Samantha Traynor is not what defines Samantha Traynor.

Exactly, what defines Samantha Traynor is a whole bunch of things, scraping ONE thing will not made her different, scraping everything will sure makes her different

You don't really get it, do you?

I am myself because I am everything I am. If you take away that I'm hetero, then it's not me anymore. If you take away that I loves playing videogames then I am not myself anymore.

You should go to the gay parades and tell those people that being gay is not a defining factor for them. Hint: Kevlar armor is adviced.

Modifié par Shallyah, 29 mai 2012 - 11:54 .

[Artemillion]

No

[Meatus]

No. I'm ecstatic that they finally included gay/bisexual males in their target demographic, but I like that some characters are bisexual, while others are not. It makes it more realistic.

However, I do think it's ****ed up that FemShep really only has 2 possible heterosexual LI's, if we're not to discount the possibility of expanding Shepard's story arc, which they've said may be possible, redacting their previous statement that it would definitely be the end of Shepard. I like strictly platonic opposite sex characters, like Joker and James, and you can even make advances (which they'll politely reject you), but they added so many LI's in 3 for MaleSheps, and not a single one for hetero FemShep. It's always been unfair for heterosexual FemSheps from the beginning in ME1 though, so I don't know what I expected. Oh well. Garrus is better than any LI that males have, hetero or otherwise, anyway.

Modifié par Meatus, 29 mai 2012 - 11:43 .

[darkiddd]

Taboo-XX wrote...

No.

Stop thinking that everyone is Bisexual.

They are not.

It's not a choice to be anything. You are the way you are.

This.

[CELL55]

No, and a thousand times no. DA2 tried this, and it felt weird as hell when every person I knew tried to jump my bones. I know that I was playing a fantasy game, but playing as the Maker's gift to mankind was just right out.