320 réponses à ce sujet

[Unit-Alpha]

IsaacShep wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

This is not a relationship sim. Seriously.

So let's remove all romances. Including the blue ones.

Fine. Doesn't really matter for me. I like Liara as a character, not as a romance. I have an actual girlfriend who I'm in a fantastic relationship with, so the LI system is meaningless to me. The only part I like about romances is the additional characterization.

[Unit-Alpha]

Mr.House wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

This is not a relationship sim. Seriously.

Let's take another couple games with romances: Witcher 2 and Deus Ex: HR. In neither one of those is there an option at the beginning that says, "Would you like a homosexual romance option instead?" No, because that is pure shoehorning. Cortez/Traynor were characters defined by their sexuality. This is *not* good writing, indicating they were shoehorned in. Kaiden's romance for MaleShep: again, shoehorning.

Both instances cheapened the characters and made them much more flimsy and 2D. This is not good writing. So congratz, you got your homosexual romance option. For people who don't pursue it (vastly the majority) we have to deal with horribly defined and paper-thin characters. That's my problem with them.

Just to be clear, I fully support the rights of the LGBT community in real life.

This was a good chuckle, thanks for giving me a morning laugh.

Haha, a dismissive laugh because you have no logical response. Very classic. Really mature, too.

[mauro2222]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

This is not a relationship sim. Seriously.

So let's remove all romances. Including the blue ones.

Fine. Doesn't really matter for me. I like Liara as a character, not as a romance. I have an actual girlfriend who I'm in a fantastic relationship with, so the LI system is meaningless to me. The only part I like about romances is the additional characterization.

And you reached the top...

Yes, we're dating our fictional friends! derp...

[Coachdongwiffle]

IsaacShep wrote...

shodiswe wrote...

That would make them all Bi... which would seem unrealistic...

Making them not give a crap about Shepard's morals, choices and actions even if they're completly incopatible with the LIs' own moral standards is also totally unrealistic, yet no one complains. There was one character who turned Shep down based on morals - Samara. And this character wasn't actually a LI lol.

Same when you make super-ugly Shep and they're all still equally hot for Shep.

Just pointing those little facts out.

Who is so Morally different than your Sheppard. Cause I can't find any LI's who are overly Moral in either direction.

[shepskisaac]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

There is a massive difference between paragon-renegade (both who still do the galaxy of world of good) versus straight and gay. The first can be dealt with as a sort of back-and-forth situation that creates a willing LI behind the scenes. The second is pure shoehorning.

And to me the fact that Liara wants to date a guy who beats women for no reason, kills the Council in cold blood and is proud of it, deliberately doesn't use Anti-Thorian Gas on Feros to kill the colonists, kills entire races etc is pure shoehorning and fanservice.

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Fine. Doesn't really matter for me. I like Liara as a character, not as a romance. I have an actual girlfriend who I'm in a fantastic relationship with, so the LI system is meaningless to me. The only part I like about romances is the additional characterization.

If it's so meaningless to you, why do you care about other romances and which Sheps romance who?

Modifié par IsaacShep, 29 mai 2012 - 05:29 .

[Unit-Alpha]

mauro2222 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

This is not a relationship sim. Seriously.

So let's remove all romances. Including the blue ones.

Fine. Doesn't really matter for me. I like Liara as a character, not as a romance. I have an actual girlfriend who I'm in a fantastic relationship with, so the LI system is meaningless to me. The only part I like about romances is the additional characterization.

And you reached the top...

Yes, we're dating our fictional friends! derp...

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying about me. Doesn't make any logical sense.

[Coachdongwiffle]

IsaacShep wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

There is a massive difference between paragon-renegade (both who still do the galaxy of world of good) versus straight and gay. The first can be dealt with as a sort of back-and-forth situation that creates a willing LI behind the scenes. The second is pure shoehorning.

And to me the fact that Liara wants to date a guy who beats women for no reason, kills the Council in cold blood and is proud of it, deliberately doesn't use Anti-Thorian Gas on Feros to kill the colonists, kills entire races etc is pure shoehorning and fanservice.

Liara is the Shadow Broker. she would of killed anyone to take down the last Shadow Broker I don't think she'd care to much. 

[Made Nightwing]

Not everyone is bi in real life, no matter who wants them to be. If we are to consider Mass Effect a 'realistic' game at all, then not everyone should be bi in that. And it certainly shouldn't happen just because fans make a noise and do polls on it *Cough* Kaidan *cough* Plus, sometimes it's just irritating. Why can't I just have a friendship with a buddy in a video game? Honestly, why is Kaidan even attracted to my Tali mancing MShep?

Modifié par Made Nightwing, 29 mai 2012 - 05:30 .

[Unit-Alpha]

IsaacShep wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

There is a massive difference between paragon-renegade (both who still do the galaxy of world of good) versus straight and gay. The first can be dealt with as a sort of back-and-forth situation that creates a willing LI behind the scenes. The second is pure shoehorning.

And to me the fact that Liara wants to date a guy who beats women for no reason, kills the Council in cold blood and is proud of it, deliberately doesn't use Anti-Thorian Gas on Feros to kill the colonists, kills entire races etc is pure shoehorning and fanservice.

Same for Steve-o. See, he's got both problems. Liara has one.

Here's an easy to read chart:

Number of relationship logic problems
_______________________
Cortez, Traynor, Allers, Kaiden: 2
All other characters: 1

[shepskisaac]

Coachdongwiffle wrote...

Liara is the Shadow Broker. she would of killed anyone to take down the last Shadow Broker I don't think she'd care to much.

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuure. She would totally murder the Galaxy to get to Shadow Broker.

[shepskisaac]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Here's an easy to read chart:

Number of relationship logic problems
_______________________
Cortez, Traynor, Allers, Kaiden: 2
All other characters: 1

And what's this additional problem Cortez, Traynor, Allers and KaidAn have? Please oh please reveal it to us

Made Nightwing wrote...

Honestly, why is Kaidan even attracted to my Tali mancing MShep?

Why is Tali even attracted to my Liara/Ashley-mancing MShep? >

Modifié par IsaacShep, 29 mai 2012 - 05:32 .

[mauro2222]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

This is not a relationship sim. Seriously.

So let's remove all romances. Including the blue ones.

Fine. Doesn't really matter for me. I like Liara as a character, not as a romance. I have an actual girlfriend who I'm in a fantastic relationship with, so the LI system is meaningless to me. The only part I like about romances is the additional characterization.

And you reached the top...

Yes, we're dating our fictional friends! derp...

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying about me. Doesn't make any logical sense.

Maybe because I'm not talking about you Mr. Logic, but rather about your assumption.

[deathlord413]

This was one of my issues with ME3. I never felt that Kaiden had any kind of bi inclinations and what happens he starts hitting on my Shepard almost immediately after he wakes up. It cheapened him for me, not really sure why. Though I think instead of making all characters bi you should be able to try and approach a relationship with each one and get rebuffed. Like they did with Traynor, I really liked the way she was handled, even though there really wasn't much to her.

[ADLegend21]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

This is not a relationship sim. Seriously.

Let's take another couple games with romances: Witcher 2 and Deus Ex: HR. In neither one of those is there an option at the beginning that says, "Would you like a homosexual romance option instead?" No, because that is pure shoehorning. Cortez/Traynor were characters defined by their sexuality. This is *not* good writing, indicating they were shoehorned in. Kaiden's romance for MaleShep: again, shoehorning.

Both instances cheapened the characters and made them much more flimsy and 2D. This is not good writing. So congratz, you got your homosexual romance option. For people who don't pursue it (vastly the majority) we have to deal with horribly defined and paper-thin characters. That's my problem with them.

Just to be clear, I fully support the rights of the LGBT community in real life.

Um wut?

Cortez and Traynor were NOT defined by being homosexual. Playing as MaleShep the only thing that came out of Traynor's mouth regarding her sexuality was mentioning EDI's voice was attractive for a VI. Cortez is mouring a recently dead spouse. That's rough, really rough. Cortez is mainly vega's buddy and a damn good shuttle pilot, Traynor is a damn fine comm. specialist and finds critical missions and adjusts to being on the front lines. Other than doing their romances their sexualities take a back seat to who they are as a person. Also as someone who came CLOSE to doing Kaidan's Male romance path (was a Liaramnacing PT where I talked to Kaidan first and had to turn him down) it was actually pretty well done. It' much different than him talking to a romance or unromanced Femshep. He knows he's talking to a guy who might not be into him and approaches the reveal of possible feelings as such. It wasn't shoehorned at all. 

[Unit-Alpha]

IsaacShep wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Here's an easy to read chart:

Number of relationship logic problems
_______________________
Cortez, Traynor, Allers, Kaiden: 2
All other characters: 1

And what's this additional problem Cortez, Traynor, Allers and KaidAn have? Please oh please reveal it to us

...

...

...

Look at the OP. Remember the fact I was talking about with shoehorning gay/bisexual LI's. They have shoehorned sexuality. Seriously, did you hand your computer over to someone who hadn't been reading the rest of the topic?

[Lenimph]

Ahh should I make another "So since I don't have a fixed sexuality I'm not a good character?" posts.

Nah no one ever cares anyway.

[Unit-Alpha]

ADLegend21 wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

This is not a relationship sim. Seriously.

Let's take another couple games with romances: Witcher 2 and Deus Ex: HR. In neither one of those is there an option at the beginning that says, "Would you like a homosexual romance option instead?" No, because that is pure shoehorning. Cortez/Traynor were characters defined by their sexuality. This is *not* good writing, indicating they were shoehorned in. Kaiden's romance for MaleShep: again, shoehorning.

Both instances cheapened the characters and made them much more flimsy and 2D. This is not good writing. So congratz, you got your homosexual romance option. For people who don't pursue it (vastly the majority) we have to deal with horribly defined and paper-thin characters. That's my problem with them.

Just to be clear, I fully support the rights of the LGBT community in real life.

Um wut?

Cortez and Traynor were NOT defined by being homosexual. Playing as MaleShep the only thing that came out of Traynor's mouth regarding her sexuality was mentioning EDI's voice was attractive for a VI. Cortez is mouring a recently dead spouse. That's rough, really rough. Cortez is mainly vega's buddy and a damn good shuttle pilot, Traynor is a damn fine comm. specialist and finds critical missions and adjusts to being on the front lines. Other than doing their romances their sexualities take a back seat to who they are as a person. Also as someone who came CLOSE to doing Kaidan's Male romance path (was a Liaramnacing PT where I talked to Kaidan first and had to turn him down) it was actually pretty well done. It' much different than him talking to a romance or unromanced Femshep. He knows he's talking to a guy who might not be into him and approaches the reveal of possible feelings as such. It wasn't shoehorned at all. 

Tell me characterization of either one of those characters that has to do with them personally, not related to their roles on the Normandy, but not related to their sexuality.

[shepskisaac]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Look at the OP. Remember the fact I was talking about with shoehorning gay/bisexual LI's. They have shoehorned sexuality. Seriously, did you hand your computer over to someone who hadn't been reading the rest of the topic?

Great. So they have also shoehorned Miranda's heterosexuality and Liara's pansexuality. What? Of course they did. The series didn't depend on it. It was there just for fanservice. So Liara and Miranda also have 2 problems. Oops.

[mauro2222]

Made Nightwing wrote...

Not everyone is bi in real life, no matter who wants them to be. If we are to consider Mass Effect a 'realistic' game at all, then not everyone should be bi in that. And it certainly shouldn't happen just because fans make a noise and do polls on it *Cough* Kaidan *cough* Plus, sometimes it's just irritating. Why can't I just have a friendship with a buddy in a video game? Honestly, why is Kaidan even attracted to my Tali mancing MShep?

You can have it. You claim realism but you think that people are attracted to you till the end of time... you told him no, then is no for him. Besides he wants you to know, after all he might die tomorrow.

If you think that such relationship is not friendship, then the problem is you.

[Unit-Alpha]

IsaacShep wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Look at the OP. Remember the fact I was talking about with shoehorning gay/bisexual LI's. They have shoehorned sexuality. Seriously, did you hand your computer over to someone who hadn't been reading the rest of the topic?

Great. So they have also shoehorned Miranda's heterosexuality and Liara's pansexuality. What? Of course they did. The series didn't depend on it. It was there just for fanservice. So Liara and Miranda also have 2 problems. Oops.

I am seriously laughing at this. Shoehorned heterosexuality? Hahaha! Wow, I better tell the makers of 99.5% of mainstream media!

And Liara's sexuality is the result of Bioware's decision to make asari monogendered. It's not a character-driven thing. Big difference.

[CroGamer002]

No.

Claiming everyone can be bisexual is about as stupid when religious bigots claim homosexuality is a choice.

[shepskisaac]

Unit-Alpha wrote...
And Liara's sexuality is the result of Bioware's decision to make asari monogendered. It's not a character-driven thing. Big difference.

Neither it is for Cortez, Traynor, Allers & Kaidan.

[Unit-Alpha]

IsaacShep wrote...

Unit-Alpha wrote...
And Liara's sexuality is the result of Bioware's decision to make asari monogendered. It's not a character-driven thing. Big difference.

Neither it is for Cortez, Traynor, Allers & Kaidan.

...except it is. Humans are programmed at the basest level to be heterosexual. So human characters who are not heterosexual have character-driven sexuality. Not species-driven sexuality, like the asari.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 29 mai 2012 - 05:44 .

[tvman099]

Absolutely not. They overdid it as it was.

[shepskisaac]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

...except it is. Humans are programmed at the basest level to be heterosexual. So human characters who are not heterosexual have character-driven sexuality

What is this nonsense that I'm reading omg hahahahahahaha