632 réponses à ce sujet

[shepskisaac]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

It's a mistake, yeah. But it's how they are handling their mistake is what is irking me.

TBH, this "just clarification" part sounded like a somthing for the press that was screaming "if they change the ending the gaming as art will end!!!11". I don't expect IT/new gameplay levels, but I do expect them to create entirely new content filling the biggest gaps/plotholes such as "what in the world happened with squadmates between the Conduit run and walking out of Normandy in casual clothes on the jungle planet". I mean, there's just nothing there to even allow more clarification lol, they have to create something in that place from scratch.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 30 mai 2012 - 03:49 .

[Whatshisnameagain]

Dryball wrote...
Artistic Integrity doesn't exist in gaming. Doesn't matter how you spin it, it IS a consumable software product with some artistic elements but an overall necessity to produce the quality it was advertised to have, which it didn't.

Well, I'm glad that I'm not the only one that realizes this.

[shepskisaac]

Dryball wrote...
Artistic Integrity doesn't exist in gaming. Doesn't matter how you spin it, it IS a consumable software product with some artistic elements but an overall necessity to produce the quality it was advertised to have, which it didn't.

Books, paintings, movies are also products. Unless you're filthy reach and can afford to make art just for the sake of it and without earning any penny, all art is in some part a product.

[Torrible]

Dryball wrote...
Artistic Integrity doesn't exist in gaming. Doesn't matter how you spin it, it IS a consumable software product with some artistic elements but an overall necessity to produce the quality it was advertised to have, which it didn't.

Artistic Integrity exist in gaming. Doesn't matter how you spin it.

[webhead921]

Artistic integrity exists, but it isn't a free pass to ignore criticism. Art can be criticized, and when one learns from valid criticism, they can improve their art. I think the Mass Effect trilogy is art, but it can be improved by listening to some of the valid criticism. Hopefully Bioware listens to some of the criticism and improves the ending

[PsyrenY]

squee365 wrote...

...So how many Multiplayer DLCs until we DO see something? :| I have the feeling they're barely working on the EC at all.

Another studio does the MP stuff.

[Torrible]

Optimystic_X wrote...

squee365 wrote...

...So how many Multiplayer DLCs until we DO see something? :| I have the feeling they're barely working on the EC at all.

Another studio does the MP stuff.

I don't buy it. It doesn't fit the whole 'Bioware screwing with its fanbase' theory.

[PsyrenY]

Torrible wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

squee365 wrote...

...So how many Multiplayer DLCs until we DO see something? :| I have the feeling they're barely working on the EC at all.

Another studio does the MP stuff.

I don't buy it. It doesn't fit the whole 'Bioware screwing with its fanbase' theory.

Heh. I suppose not. 

[Rodia Driftwood]

Don't matter to me when they release it. My patience for the Extended Cut is ETERNAL

[liggy002]

It's taking them a while with this EC. It wont be just cutscenes. I bet there will be gameplay included.

[liggy002]

Rodia Driftwood wrote...

Don't matter to me when they release it. My patience for the Extended Cut is ETERNAL

Well, I'd say no more than a year.  That should be plenty of time and I don't want to wait too long for a proper boss battle with Harbinger.

[Rodia Driftwood]

liggy002 wrote...

Rodia Driftwood wrote...

Don't matter to me when they release it. My patience for the Extended Cut is ETERNAL

Well, I'd say no more than a year.  That should be plenty of time and I don't want to wait too long for a proper boss battle with Harbinger.

It took BioWare 2 years to release a(clearly) unfinished/rushed product. And you expect them to clean up this whole mess in no more than a year?.

Alright.. I'll go along for funzies..

[Apfelweinbrauer]

Torrible wrote...

Artistic Integrity exist in gaming.

In "gaming"? For some games this statement may be correct, but certainly not for ME3...

BioWare shamelessly ****d out several female characters by putting them in the skimpiest dresses imaginable, officially admitted dumbing down the whole game to approach a wider audience and placed the infamous "Buy moar DLC"-message right after the credits. And that's just the icing on the $$$-cake...

This game is the pure definition non-art, it literally sreams "EA wants your money" from every screen and nothing in the world could even rudimentally convince me that there is even a grain of integrity in this product.

[Haargel]

What did you expect ? a trailer that spoils the EC? Common...

[Makrys]

liggy002 wrote...

It's taking them a while with this EC. It wont be just cutscenes. I bet there will be gameplay included.

Listen to this guy.

[sparkyo42]

chemiclord wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

It's a mistake, yeah. But it's how they are handling their mistake is what is irking me.

Well, here's what I'd ask you.

What should they say?  

Their PR releases are ripped to shreds and accused of being veiled insults to their fans.

Developers who came on these boards were metaphorically eviscerated the moment they appeared.

What can Bioware say?  EA is never going to let them admit the game was rushed, or anything that might imply that ME3 isn't exactly what it was claimed to be.  All they could give you is empty PR statements.  Do you really want more of that?

Honestly, silence is the best policy right now, as much as it may seem like it isn't.

I'd argue that there is no right policy no for how to deal with this. The longer the silence the more this is going to fester in the boards, so if/when they start talking again the anger will still be there waiting. If they don't the next Bioware product is going to suffer from this (actually I think that's going to happen anyway).

I've said before an experience I had with Paradox Games, they release Hearts Of Iron 3 (a stratergy wargame) and it was massively buggy, almost unplayable. The fanbase equally as loyal as here went nuts over big game breaking bugs. But the lead designer came out with 24 hours and met the anger head on, admitted the mistakes in QA, remind the base that the developers had just finished and the team were on holidays after it and once they were back would move as quickly as possible to fix it. But I suppose that theyre only a small company.

[Trebor1969]

Total Biscuit wrote...

That hopefully means it will be the rumoured September release then. Which means we're hopefully looking at Project Overlord/LOTSB volumes of content, which can obviously only be a good thing.

Maybe, assuming Bioware actually get how badly they screwed up, we'll even get IT bolted on and a whole new proper ending instead of polishing the turd of an ending we have now. I mean, sure, we won't, but one can dream of ME actually getting the send off it deserves.

Yeap, one can only dream !

[B3ckett]

Sion1138 wrote...

Total Biscuit wrote...

That hopefully means it will be the rumoured September release then. Which means we're hopefully looking at Project Overlord/LOTSB volumes of content, which can obviously only be a good thing.

Maybe, assuming Bioware actually get how badly they screwed up, we'll even get IT bolted on and a whole new proper ending instead of polishing the turd of an ending we have now. I mean, sure, we won't, but one can dream of ME actually getting the send off it deserves.

They get it, they know how much steak there is.

I friggin' love steak!

[Kunari801]

sparkyo42 wrote...

I'd argue that there is no right policy no for how to deal with this... If they don't the next Bioware product is going to suffer from this (actually I think that's going to happen anyway).... 

Agree, they will be damned-if-they-do and damned-if-they-don't.   I'd rather they put their heads down and work on the EC than try to play PR.  I think they've done the best they can.   Open a thread for feedback and monitor the forums for ideas of what the fan wanted or had issues with.   BW is also looking at other forums like HTL forums.  

I think they'll come out with news as they get closer to the EC but they have to be careful not to drop too many spoilers. 

[sparkyo42]

Kunari801 wrote...

sparkyo42 wrote...

I'd argue that there is no right policy no for how to deal with this... If they don't the next Bioware product is going to suffer from this (actually I think that's going to happen anyway).... 

Agree, they will be damned-if-they-do and damned-if-they-don't.   I'd rather they put their heads down and work on the EC than try to play PR.  I think they've done the best they can.   Open a thread for feedback and monitor the forums for ideas of what the fan wanted or had issues with.   BW is also looking at other forums like HTL forums.  

I think they'll come out with news as they get closer to the EC but they have to be careful not to drop too many spoilers. 

I agree with you but I don't mean telling us about whats going on with the EC, I mean trying to drain some of the venom around here. Right now the feelings on the forum are only going to be deminished if a) people give up and leave or something more than "we're listening" happens. I fully understand that some of the behaviour has been wrong and inexcusable from people, but I think at least some of that has built up over two months of silence. If the bunker approach hadn't happened I think the feelings on the board would be better. If nothing changes until late summer then the EC could be ME 4 and the mood will still be poision.

[Favourite store on the CitadeI]

I hope its like an hour or so long

[chemiclord]

sparkyo42 wrote...

I agree with you but I don't mean telling us about whats going on with the EC, I mean trying to drain some of the venom around here. Right now the feelings on the forum are only going to be deminished if a) people give up and leave or something more than "we're listening" happens. I fully understand that some of the behaviour has been wrong and inexcusable from people, but I think at least some of that has built up over two months of silence. If the bunker approach hadn't happened I think the feelings on the board would be better. If nothing changes until late summer then the EC could be ME 4 and the mood will still be poision.

I'm going to be perfectly blunt.  It would be impossible to drain the venom.  Because there are too many people who are insistent on injecting it right back in.

It is a truly vocal minority, yes, but they have decided from the moment the first scripts were leaked that they were GOING to be angry, come hell or high water.  They decided long ago that no matter what Bioware does, it is going to suck, and they are going to complain about it VERY VERY LOUDLY.

These are people DETERMINED to be positively ENRAGED, and no amount of "facing the music" is going to placate these people.  Casey Hudson, Mac Walters, Chris Gamble, and every damn suit from Bioware/EA could release a statement tomorrow that they are conceding to every demand of this group of fans, and are even going to let said fans write and direct a new ending...

... and their response would be, "WHAT TOOK YOU SO ****ING LONG?  BOO BIOWARE!  BOOOOOOO!!!"  They would then promptly flood these forums with angry, bitter threads about Bioware patronizing their fans.

Those that yell the loudest tend to command the argument.  That's just human nature, and why the atmosphere is going to remain poisonous for a very long time until the angry mob finally gets bored and moves on.

[sparkyo42]

chemiclord wrote...

sparkyo42 wrote...

I agree with you but I don't mean telling us about whats going on with the EC, I mean trying to drain some of the venom around here. Right now the feelings on the forum are only going to be deminished if a) people give up and leave or something more than "we're listening" happens. I fully understand that some of the behaviour has been wrong and inexcusable from people, but I think at least some of that has built up over two months of silence. If the bunker approach hadn't happened I think the feelings on the board would be better. If nothing changes until late summer then the EC could be ME 4 and the mood will still be poision.

I'm going to be perfectly blunt.  It would be impossible to drain the venom.  Because there are too many people who are insistent on injecting it right back in.

It is a truly vocal minority, yes, but they have decided from the moment the first scripts were leaked that they were GOING to be angry, come hell or high water.  They decided long ago that no matter what Bioware does, it is going to suck, and they are going to complain about it VERY VERY LOUDLY.

These are people DETERMINED to be positively ENRAGED, and no amount of "facing the music" is going to placate these people.  Casey Hudson, Mac Walters, Chris Gamble, and every damn suit from Bioware/EA could release a statement tomorrow that they are conceding to every demand of this group of fans, and are even going to let said fans write and direct a new ending...

... and their response would be, "WHAT TOOK YOU SO ****ING LONG?  BOO BIOWARE!  BOOOOOOO!!!"  They would then promptly flood these forums with angry, bitter threads about Bioware patronizing their fans.

Those that yell the loudest tend to command the argument.  That's just human nature, and why the atmosphere is going to remain poisonous for a very long time until the angry mob finally gets bored and moves on.

Sure there's a minority that are going to be a pain but the majority that are angry now are angry because of the way the PR managed response has played out. I'm angry because of the ending/autodialog/EMS but I'm not screaming. What is a growing anger is for example locking the EMS thread to get it off the board.

My main point is that Chris has rightfully pointed out that why should they come when people are going to yell, but that's not going to change and only grow worse. It's a cruel cycle but it's at this stage reinforcing the problem. People have had meaningful conversations with Aaron (I think, the mod from the DA team) without much screaming because we've been talking to him.

[Henioo]

liggy002 wrote...

It's taking them a while with this EC. It wont be just cutscenes. I bet there will be gameplay included.

There better be. I would give up on BioWare if after so much time they really did give us just some cut scenes, no matter how artistic and cinematographic they'd be.