1100 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

Morroian wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

This, and also because RPGs in modern times suck. Just look at Borderlands or Fallout3 with their awful gameplay.

Well if you approached Borderlands as an rpg I can see why you'd be disappointed. Its a shooter, and a good, even great shooter.

No, as a shooter its even worse.

In a shooter I should not miss a perfect headshot (in spite of perfect aim) because my weapon has a f*ckking 0 accuracy, and if I land a headshot it should kill and not do X amount of damage and the boss has another 5000000 left.

[Blacklash93]

Tirigon wrote...
Just look at Borderlands or Fallout3 with their awful gameplay.

Borderlands was a number-crunching shooter with light RPG elements. Fallout 3 had exploration/discovery and rewarding questing and role-playing to make up for the simplistic combat.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 31 mai 2012 - 11:18 .

[android654]

That's because it's an rpg, you're expected to devote your time to earning money and finding the best parts to make the best weapons. You can't run into things blindly without developing your character and classes, unlike games like dragon age where you can easily swing away at things until they die.

[Tirigon]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
Just look at Borderlands or Fallout3 with their awful gameplay.

Borderlands was a shooter with light RPG elements.

And that's the problem.

If I want to play a shooter, I DONT want to collect sh!t and level skills, I want to click the continue button and go right in the action, sniping russian terrorists or n@zis or whatever slightly-offensive-to-non-americans baddies they throw at me; and if I want to play an RPG, why, I guess I would just play one instead of a shooter.

[fchopin]

I just like to repeat what i said a few pages past.

I am in love.

[HiroVoid]

Tirigon wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
Just look at Borderlands or Fallout3 with their awful gameplay.

Borderlands was a shooter with light RPG elements.

And that's the problem.

If I want to play a shooter, I DONT want to collect sh!t and level skills, I want to click the continue button and go right in the action, sniping russian terrorists or n@zis or whatever slightly-offensive-to-non-americans baddies they throw at me; and if I want to play an RPG, why, I guess I would just play one instead of a shooter.

I guess it just wasn't your kind of game then.

[zeypher]

Finally!!
Im really looking forward to this. Always wanted a good cyberpunk game, as im a little worn out on medivial/fantasy games.
This should be a breath of fresh air

[Damariel]

how funny it will be to have Rockerboy class in this game ;P

[AdamJenson]

eroeru wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

Why should a "modern" or near future or future/sci-fi game be a "shooter"?  I'm not talking shooter.

The guy in the concept art pic was holding a gun.


%20http://i.imgur.com/TyrQ9.jpg%20

As opposed to?  A sword?  Big diff, swinging a sword all the time to kill people or firing a gun to kill people.  The gun is cleaner and faster.  Shooting an arrow is...shooting, thus making it a "shooter".  Proing proing instead of pew pew.

A sword/bow-and-arrow game is a shooter but by different weapon.  The effect and gameplay is the same. 

Here's another idea instead of damn medievil nonsense.  How about putting the story in ancient Rome or, even better, classical/ancient Greece.  Go with Gene Wolff again but this time a world like "Solier of the Mist" and "Soldie of Arete".  No wizards, no mages, no dwarves, no elves, no monster hoard armies, no dragons, no plate armor, no castles, no Highness or m'lord. 

Yes! ! ! 


Though I disagree on calling most medieval games shooters, and also I'd refrain from calling one done in the vein of KOTOR (with guns).

I was addressing the false notion that if a game uses guns in it, it must be a "shooter" as in Crysis, CoD, etc, etc.  No.  Weapons are irrelevant.  A "shooter" can also be a swords and kungfu nonsense game (Mortal Kombat where all you do is get into the ring and DANCE DANCE DANCE!  With grunting and the periodic "Hiyah!").  The MECHANIC is what defines a shooter, NOT the weapons available.  

You could take ANY current fantasy game and reskin everything in it so that instead of silly Kings and Queens, robes and mail, swords and bows, you have business execs, rifles, pistols, knives,  for weapons, and jeans, t-shirts, business suits, bikinis, cars (or flying future cars) and the game would work just fine.  It would be an RPG with a blessedly NON-medieval setting.  It would NOT be a "shooter" just because there are guns in it.  

[Tirigon]

AdamJenson: a fighting game like Mortal Kombat is NOT a shooter because it DOES NOT HAVE SHOOTER COMBAT.

God, are you trolling or just stupid?

[hangmans tree]

I think there wont be a class just skills you can invest into. What will define you as "class" would be actions and convo options that will set your character against the background of the plot.
class system is a little obsolete imo. Restrictions in taking skill paths is another thing - this would prevent to buy the "class native" abilities/special skills. This would prevent from making Solo-Netrunner with aouthority of a police officer and charisma of a Rocker.

[RedArmyShogun]

Tirigon wrote...

God, are you am I trolling or just stupid?

Judging by some of your replies I'm starting to wonder.

[Damariel]

hangmans tree wrote...

I think there wont be a class just skills you can invest into. What will define you as "class" would be actions and convo options that will set your character against the background of the plot.
class system is a little obsolete imo. Restrictions in taking skill paths is another thing - this would prevent to buy the "class native" abilities/special skills. This would prevent from making Solo-Netrunner with aouthority of a police officer and charisma of a Rocker.

maybe (but I not want DeusEx:HR clone in this case)... I just think about what Rockerboy is in it's basic idea ;P. 

[android654]

Tirigon wrote...

AdamJenson: a fighting game like Mortal Kombat is NOT a shooter because it DOES NOT HAVE SHOOTER COMBAT.

God, are you trolling or just stupid?

You should learn to read for context. It's rather clear that Jensen's defining "Shooters" as a game that prioritizes action over the other mechanics. So having guns doesn't automatically make a game a shooter. Deus Ex, Alpha Protocol, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas are examples of games with guns that aren't "shooters."

[Seagloom]

I must be very fortunate since I can enjoy fantasy, modern, and science fiction in roughly equal measure. Although I value the former two slightly over the latter. Perhaps that is why my favorite genre is gaslamp fantasy. Throw in a bit of science, a bit of steampunk, a bit of magic, and a smattering of romance and horror. Or you know, ignore conventions altogether and just tell whatever story you want. People get way too hung up on rigid definitions on what a game's story and aesthetic presentation should be.

Getting back on topic, I really *really* hope this game makes a nonviolent approach truly viable. One thing I see in too few "RPGs" is a way to eschew combat altogether. Oh, there are games where "pacifist" runs are possible; but the experience is always somewhat clunky and usually requires metagame knowledge to keep the difficulty from being elevated to insane heights. This setting seems ripe with possibilities for that.

Modifié par Seagloom, 31 mai 2012 - 02:46 .

[AdamJenson]

Seagloom wrote...

I must be very fortunate since I can enjoy fantasy, modern, and science fiction in roughly equal measure. Although I value the former two slightly over the latter. Perhaps that is why my favorite genre is gaslamp fantasy. Throw in a bit of science, a bit of steampunk, a bit of magic, and a smattering of romance and horror. Or you know, ignore conventions altogether and just tell whatever story you want. People get way too hung up on rigid definitions on what a game's story and aesthetic presentation should be.

Getting back on topic, I really *really* hope this game makes a nonviolent approach truly viable. One thing I see in too few "RPGs" is a way to eschew combat altogether. Oh, there are games where "pacifist" runs are possible; but the experience is always somewhat clunky and usually requires metagame knowledge to keep the difficulty from being elevated to insane heights. This setting seems ripe with possibilities for that.

Other than the boss fights (for which the devs gave a mea culpa - Bioware could learn from them) Deus Ex: HR had great pacifist ways through levels.  That was often the hardest way to get through any area/level.  Myself, I was pacifist until the Alice Garden Pods raid, then the gloves always come off.  Massacre of absolutely innocent nobodies doesn't really call for a pacifist response.  It calls for gloves coming off.

[android654]

there are only two games on consoles where I know you can finish with only killing "bosses" and that's the Hitman series and the Deus Ex series. It's hard to do, but it's rewarding to slip away with no one knowing you're there for the entire game.

Here's the whole video reveal of CYBERPUNK from CDPR[/quote]

Again, I love that they explicitly state that the game will not be for everyone.

[xkg]

android654 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

AdamJenson: a fighting game like Mortal Kombat is NOT a shooter because it DOES NOT HAVE SHOOTER COMBAT.

God, are you trolling or just stupid?

You should learn to read for context. It's rather clear that Jensen's defining "Shooters" as a game that prioritizes action over the other mechanics. So having guns doesn't automatically make a game a shooter. Deus Ex, Alpha Protocol, Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas are examples of games with guns that aren't "shooters."

Who cares what is Jensen's definition of shooter. Common definition is what matters.
And Mortal Kombat is not a shooter by any defitnition, not even close.
Find me one page with shooter genre definition that fits Mortal Kombat gameplay.

[android654]

^ Their definition matters because you're trying to understand what they're saying. Don't be thick just for the sake of it.

[Sajji]

Tirigon wrote...

Morroian wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

This, and also because RPGs in modern times suck. Just look at Borderlands or Fallout3 with their awful gameplay.

Well if you approached Borderlands as an rpg I can see why you'd be disappointed. Its a shooter, and a good, even great shooter.

No, as a shooter its even worse.

In a shooter I should not miss a perfect headshot (in spite of perfect aim) because my weapon has a f*ckking 0 accuracy, and if I land a headshot it should kill and not do X amount of damage and the boss has another 5000000 left.

Doesn't sound like the game for you, then.

Have fun on DA3 threads.

[Sajji]

Tirigon wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
Just look at Borderlands or Fallout3 with their awful gameplay.

Borderlands was a shooter with light RPG elements.

And that's the problem.

If I want to play a shooter, I DONT want to collect sh!t and level skills, I want to click the continue button and go right in the action, sniping russian terrorists or n@zis or whatever slightly-offensive-to-non-americans baddies they throw at me; and if I want to play an RPG, why, I guess I would just play one instead of a shooter.

That's how I felt about Mass Effect.

I want to play a sci-fi RPG, not some boring shooter.

Thank goodness CDProjekt is making a sci-fi rpg. Being a shooter and having shooting combat can be two completely different things.

[Mylia Stenetch]

[quote]android654 wrote...

there are only two games on consoles where I know you can finish with only killing "bosses" and that's the Hitman series and the Deus Ex series. It's hard to do, but it's rewarding to slip away with no one knowing you're there for the entire game.

Here's the whole video reveal of CYBERPUNK from CDPR[/quote]

Again, I love that they explicitly state that the game will not be for everyone.[/quote]

Yes it is a cyberpunk world. Most people will not be interested in this, also since it is based on a PnP which is not D&D then people will be deterred about it. 

If it is suppose to be a jab against Bioware, ME was a space opera it was suppose to attract a large auidance since it is designed for it.

For the game it looks good, I enjoy the cyberpunk world very much when we started up a Shadowrun PnP. I hope it does good cause it might inject some fresh ideas into stagnet Modem Wartime Shooter AAA game world.

[Mylia Stenetch]

Sajji wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...
Just look at Borderlands or Fallout3 with their awful gameplay.

Borderlands was a shooter with light RPG elements.

And that's the problem.

If I want to play a shooter, I DONT want to collect sh!t and level skills, I want to click the continue button and go right in the action, sniping russian terrorists or n@zis or whatever slightly-offensive-to-non-americans baddies they throw at me; and if I want to play an RPG, why, I guess I would just play one instead of a shooter.

That's how I felt about Mass Effect.

I want to play a sci-fi RPG, not some boring shooter.

Thank goodness CDProjekt is making a sci-fi rpg. Being a shooter and having shooting combat can be two completely different things.

The thing is we live in a world were everything needs a specialized genre title. ME was a space opera first, action game second, rpg thrid. So with all that it came into the mind of a Sci-Fi action-rpg. To think that ME was every a real RPG is silly, since it was never going to go that route. In the Western World so far most AAA titles fall into this genre since it can bring the most pay-off.

[xkg]

android654 wrote...

^ Their definition matters because you're trying to understand what they're saying. Don't be thick just for the sake of it.

^ No, it doesn't work like that. We are talking on public forum so we should be using more common, acknowledged definitions not our own.

I can say that Combat flight simulator is an RPG because you play the role of a combat pilot.
Sim City is an RPG - you play the role of the city major.
You see, it is easy. I can make up more definitions if you like but does that make any sense ?

Oh and btw, Deus Ex is listed on many pages as an action game with shooter mechanics (Gamespot for example)
On Deus Ex wiki page has "Genres: Action RPG, FPS" and as you can read there :
"Gameplay - Hybrid
Deus Ex is equal parts shooter and RPG"

So yes, Deus Ex is in part a shooter game, whether you like it or not.

[spirosz]

Hopefully my PC will be able to run it... haha.