1100 réponses à ce sujet

[CroGamer002]

Cyberpunk style?

Already lost interest.

[spirosz]

xkg wrote...

android654 wrote...

^ Their definition matters because you're trying to understand what they're saying. Don't be thick just for the sake of it.

^ No, it doesn't work like that. We are talking on public forum so we should be using more common, acknowledged definitions not our own.

I can say that Combat flight simulator is an RPG because you play the role of a combat pilot.
Sim City is an RPG - you play the role of the city major.
You see, it is easy. I can make up more definitions if you like but does that make any sense ?

Oh and btw, Deus Ex is listed on many pages as an action game with shooter mechanics (Gamespot for example)
On Deus Ex wiki page has "Genres: Action RPG, FPS" and as you can read there :
"Gameplay - Hybrid
Deus Ex is equal parts shooter and RPG"

So yes, Deus Ex is in part a shooter game, whether you like it or not.

I didn't shoot my gun once, yet I beat the game.  I guess I broke the system.  

But yes, there are mechanics in there, that are part shooter, but that doesn't take away from the "Role-playing" itself, even though - Jensen himself, is a pre-defined character.  

RPG's are way too subjective IMO.  

[Seagloom]

It will be interesting to see if this game pays off for them or not. Setting out to cater to a specific niche can either be a godsend if enough fans show up to buy your game, or a curse if most of your potential audience is too alienated or apathetic toward your product. That was why Planescape: Torment developed a cult following instead of becoming the runaway hits Baldur's Gate and KotOR did.

If this game does turn out as amazing as some folks expect it will, I hope it moves enough copies to justify sequels. Otherwise it may end up as another Bloodlines. Well loved by its fans, but otherwise doomed to relative obscurity.

Modifié par Seagloom, 31 mai 2012 - 03:29 .

[AdamJenson]

xkg wrote...

android654 wrote...

^ Their definition matters because you're trying to understand what they're saying. Don't be thick just for the sake of it.

^ No, it doesn't work like that. We are talking on public forum so we should be using more common, acknowledged definitions not our own.

I can say that Combat flight simulator is an RPG because you play the role of a combat pilot.
Sim City is an RPG - you play the role of the city major.
You see, it is easy. I can make up more definitions if you like but does that make any sense ?

Oh and btw, Deus Ex is listed on many pages as an action game with shooter mechanics (Gamespot for example)
On Deus Ex wiki page has "Genres: Action RPG, FPS" and as you can read there :
"Gameplay - Hybrid
Deus Ex is equal parts shooter and RPG"

So yes, Deus Ex is in part a shooter game, whether you like it or not.

You are being anal ridiculous!  Tell me, if someone were to take Baldur's Gate and reskin everyone so they wore modern dress and instead of swords and spears they sported firearms, it magically transforms into a simple, straight shooter even though ALL other elements, ALL the mechanics, remains the same?  NO!  

An RPG is NOT defined by whether or not it has guns in it or not.  You cannot take an RPG game with swords and magic and suddenly make it a "shooter" by reskinning it with modern (or futuristic) clothing and guns and make it a totally dfiferent game.  IT IS THE SAME GAME.  The MECHANIC defines a game, NOT the fake cartoon weapons used.  It is HOW you play, not what you play with, that is important.

Hell, you are trying to say that even if a game is ENTIRELY and heavily RPG in all respect until this little 2 minute scene where you shoot a pistol (instead of a silly bow-and-arrow) - 2 minutes - makes the game a "shooter".  

Nonsense, balderdash, bunkum, ballyhoo, poopoo.

Modifié par AdamJenson, 31 mai 2012 - 03:29 .

[Sajji]

I think you can play as a girl if you want. They probably will have a complete (and robust) character creator.

"Be a one man, or one girl, army."

[inzesky]

As someone who just recently finished reading Neuromancer and loving every gorgeously crafted sentence, plotline, character and theme in it, I am very much intrigued  in what CD project could deliver. Granted, I did not like The Witcher series but that stems mostly from issues I have with the source materiel itself.

[AdamJenson]

Sajji wrote...

I think you can play as a girl if you want. They probably will have a complete (and robust) character creator.

"Be a one man, or one girl, army."

Fairly pointless if not 3rd person, of course.  I assume (hope) 3rd person.  I actually prefered 1st person prior to my first ME1 experience way back when.  Since then, I have come to prefer 3rd person (ala ME, DEHR in spots).  Do NOT want 3rd person at a distance god view (Diablo series).

[AdamJenson]

inzesky wrote...

As someone who just recently finished reading Neuromancer and loving every gorgeously crafted sentence, plotline, character and theme in it, I am very much intrigued  in what CD project could deliver. Granted, I did not like The Witcher series but that stems mostly from issues I have with the source materiel itself.

Medieval tripe with swords and magic

Now, call it "Spacer" and "Spacer 2" and replace all the clothing with futuristic clothes and spacesuits, the swords with gauss guns, magic with high-tech, etc, and you have yourself a game!

[xkg]

AdamJenson wrote...

xkg wrote...

android654 wrote...

^ Their definition matters because you're trying to understand what they're saying. Don't be thick just for the sake of it.

^ No, it doesn't work like that. We are talking on public forum so we should be using more common, acknowledged definitions not our own.

I can say that Combat flight simulator is an RPG because you play the role of a combat pilot.
Sim City is an RPG - you play the role of the city major.
You see, it is easy. I can make up more definitions if you like but does that make any sense ?

Oh and btw, Deus Ex is listed on many pages as an action game with shooter mechanics (Gamespot for example)
On Deus Ex wiki page has "Genres: Action RPG, FPS" and as you can read there :
"Gameplay - Hybrid
Deus Ex is equal parts shooter and RPG"

So yes, Deus Ex is in part a shooter game, whether you like it or not.

You are being anal ridiculous!  Tell me, if someone were to take Baldur's Gate and reskin everyone so they wore modern dress and instead of swords and spears they sported firearms, it magically transforms into a simple, straight shooter even though ALL other elements, ALL the mechanics, remains the same?  NO!  

An RPG is NOT defined by whether or not it has guns in it or not.  You cannot take an RPG game with swords and magic and suddenly make it a "shooter" by reskinning it with modern (or futuristic) clothing and guns and make it a totally dfiferent game.  IT IS THE SAME GAME.  The MECHANIC defines a game, NOT the fake cartoon weapons used.  It is HOW you play, not what you play with, that is important.

Hell, you are trying to say that even if a game is ENTIRELY and heavily RPG in all respect until this little 2 minute scene where you shoot a pistol (instead of a silly bow-and-arrow) - 2 minutes - makes the game a "shooter".  

Nonsense, balderdash, bunkum, ballyhoo, poopoo.

I never said that games like baldurs gate with guns would be a shooter. Yes it all depends on mechanics.
Fallout 1,2 are pure RPGs. Games like Fallout 3, Deus Ex are RPG/Shooter hybrids because they have both - RPG game elements and shooter game mechanics.

And who is riduculous here, huh ? Mortal Kombat is a shooter - that were your words. Still waiting for you to point what shooter game mechanics Mortal Kombat has.

Modifié par xkg, 31 mai 2012 - 03:43 .

[naughty99]

AdamJenson wrote...
Do NOT want 3rd person at a distance god view (Diablo series).

I think you are talking about isometric view, right? 

This will be a 3D rendered game, so no isometric view.

[Sajji]

Who knows, maybe they will integrate first and third person like Bethesda does. Along with traditional first person, Skyrim has terrific third person. I agree, Adam, both have their advantages. I personally feel more engrossed in a world from first person, but I really like third person, too.

I liked what DE:HR did in their automatic toggle as well, zooming to third person in cover. Appearance will also be seen in cutscenes.

It'll be interesting to see what they do. I'm perfectly happy with whatever the devs come up with.

[AdamJenson]

xkg wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...

xkg wrote...

android654 wrote...

^ Their definition matters because you're trying to understand what they're saying. Don't be thick just for the sake of it.

^ No, it doesn't work like that. We are talking on public forum so we should be using more common, acknowledged definitions not our own.

I can say that Combat flight simulator is an RPG because you play the role of a combat pilot.
Sim City is an RPG - you play the role of the city major.
You see, it is easy. I can make up more definitions if you like but does that make any sense ?

Oh and btw, Deus Ex is listed on many pages as an action game with shooter mechanics (Gamespot for example)
On Deus Ex wiki page has "Genres: Action RPG, FPS" and as you can read there :
"Gameplay - Hybrid
Deus Ex is equal parts shooter and RPG"

So yes, Deus Ex is in part a shooter game, whether you like it or not.

You are being anal ridiculous!  Tell me, if someone were to take Baldur's Gate and reskin everyone so they wore modern dress and instead of swords and spears they sported firearms, it magically transforms into a simple, straight shooter even though ALL other elements, ALL the mechanics, remains the same?  NO!  

An RPG is NOT defined by whether or not it has guns in it or not.  You cannot take an RPG game with swords and magic and suddenly make it a "shooter" by reskinning it with modern (or futuristic) clothing and guns and make it a totally dfiferent game.  IT IS THE SAME GAME.  The MECHANIC defines a game, NOT the fake cartoon weapons used.  It is HOW you play, not what you play with, that is important.

Hell, you are trying to say that even if a game is ENTIRELY and heavily RPG in all respect until this little 2 minute scene where you shoot a pistol (instead of a silly bow-and-arrow) - 2 minutes - makes the game a "shooter".  

Nonsense, balderdash, bunkum, ballyhoo, poopoo.

I never said that games like baldurs gate with guns would be a shooter. Yes it all depends on mechanics.
Fallout 1,2 are pure RPGs. Games like Fallout 3, Deus Ex are RPG/Shooter hybrids because they have both - RPG game elements and shooter game mechanics.

And who is riduculous here, huh ? Mortal Kombat is a shooter - that were your words. Still waiting for you to point what shooter game mechanics Mortal Kombat has.

I was getting to the mechanics of simple shooters.  You shoot.  You could replace the guns with throwing stars and it would be the same shooter game.  I refered to the braindead and simplistic Mortal Kombat (no plot, no real play, just fight) because you could replace the swords and such with guns and it would be the same simplistic game - like a "shooter" but in a tight ring...like the boss fights in the FPS Doom, a straight-up shooter.

[AdamJenson]

Sajji wrote...

Who knows, maybe they will integrate first and third person like Bethesda does. Along with traditional first person, Skyrim has terrific third person. I agree, Adam, both have their advantages. I personally feel more engrossed in a world from first person, but I really like third person, too.

I liked what DE:HR did in their automatic toggle as well, zooming to third person in cover. Appearance will also be seen in cutscenes.

It'll be interesting to see what they do. I'm perfectly happy with whatever the devs come up with.

I think I would re-love first person if I had a good set of VR goggles so I could look around and see the world I'm in better than you can in a typical first person game - with natural head movements.  Typically, first person makes me feel like I'm wearing a neck brace - to turn and look around I have to turn my entire body in cumbersome fashion.  Third person opens up the world to see more by its nature which is nice visually and tactically.  

[inzesky]

AdamJenson wrote...

inzesky wrote...

As someone who just recently finished reading Neuromancer and loving every gorgeously crafted sentence, plotline, character and theme in it, I am very much intrigued  in what CD project could deliver. Granted, I did not like The Witcher series but that stems mostly from issues I have with the source materiel itself.

Medieval tripe with swords and magic

Now, call it "Spacer" and "Spacer 2" and replace all the clothing with futuristic clothes and spacesuits, the swords with gauss guns, magic with high-tech, etc, and you have yourself a game!

I suppose on a mechanical level that comparision is apt. From a storytelling perspective there is a potential difference, at least on a speculative level since we don't know really what the game is about. What we do know is what the genre is about and yes Cyberpunk is dark and "gritty", similar to the Witcher itself. Differences lie in the way Neuromancer (as the quintessential example for Cyberpunk) uses these aesthetic qualities, to create strong underlying themes, brain food, whereas in The Witcher it feels as simply an aesthetic choice, with no underlying lesson, just a story in a world that is trying to look mature, by having a lot of unlikeable characters and swearing and sex. 

Modifié par inzesky, 31 mai 2012 - 04:00 .

[android654]

xkg wrote...
*semantic nonsense*

Yeah, I'm not going to engage in a debate about vernacular. If you want to make sense of what people are saying, you try and pay attention to what they're saying. It's not complicated.

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

Yes it is a cyberpunk world. Most people will not be interested in this, also since it is based on a PnP which is not D&D then people will be deterred about it. 

If it is suppose to be a jab against Bioware, ME was a space opera it was suppose to attract a large auidance since it is designed for it.

For the game it looks good, I enjoy the cyberpunk world very much when we started up a Shadowrun PnP. I hope it does good cause it might inject some fresh ideas into stagnet Modem Wartime Shooter AAA game world.

Cyberpunk is very small now, which is sad since I'm not old enough to have lived through it's high point, so I'm merely stuck with people's musings on the subject rather than having an actual segment of the population that has an interest in this. In the past decade there have been only 3 tv shows in the U.S. that were Cyberpunk, Dark Angel which was a hybrid of Cyberpunk and Biopunk, Battlestar Galactica which is an obvious hybrid, and Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles which is technically pre-Cyberpunk. There was a tiny revival when the first Matrix film came out, but the following two were just action movies. We did get one or two decent Cyberpunk movies like Babylon A.D. (the book is better, but when isn't that the case?) Children of Men, Code 46, Equilibrium. They get praise from critics, but are never heralded as art like more crowd pleasing films.

Not everything is a jab at Mass Effect. I still love the first two games a great deal, but prefer the second over the first despite the fact that the game was clearly designed to gain favor with the overwhelmingly large crowd of Star Wars and Star Trek fans. People like myself however have to dig real deep to find something that satisfies their tastes. Sometimes you get lucky and find a movie like Eden log or a band like Front Line Assembly, but a little service in the entertainment market would be appreciated.

Whether it takes off or not is not a big deal to me. Knowing that CDPR is small enough to care about their craft, but big enough to have the resources to do it right is enough for me to have faith that it'll be done right. I loved Deus Ex: Human Revolution, but there was so much more that I wanted that they couldn't deliver for many reasons.

So all in all, this is promising and hopefully it has just enough influence that we can get at least two more games in a real Cyberpunk setting before the next console wave begins.

[android654]

naughty99 wrote...

AdamJenson wrote...
Do NOT want 3rd person at a distance god view (Diablo series).

I think you are talking about isometric view, right? 

This will be a 3D rendered game, so no isometric view.

Considering it's being built on their in-house engine and by devs form The Witcher 1 and 2, I expected the lay out to be very similar to those games. 3rd person directly behind the character, and first person when sniping. That's right, I expect rifles and amazing ones considering that we can customize our weapons.

inzesky wrote...

As someone who just recently finished reading Neuromancer and loving every gorgeously crafted sentence, plotline, character and theme in it, I am very much intrigued  in what CD project could deliver. Granted, I did not like The Witcher series but that stems mostly from issues I have with the source materiel itself.

I'm so glad they cited Gibson as an influence. I would love to have characters like Molly and Case in this game. The only thing they needed to make it perfect was to cite Jennifer Government as an influence as well. Then I would know I might be wrong and that there is some kind of a god somewhere, and it has awesome taste in books.

[Mylia Stenetch]

android654 wrote...
Not everything is a jab at Mass Effect. I still love the first two games a great deal, but prefer the second over the first despite the fact that the game was clearly designed to gain favor with the overwhelmingly large crowd of Star Wars and Star Trek fans. People like myself however have to dig real deep to find something that satisfies their tastes. Sometimes you get lucky and find a movie like Eden log or a band like Front Line Assembly, but a little service in the entertainment market would be appreciated.

I still enjoy the series for what it is. Still right now in perspective Bioware is the punching bag for companies now. Since the ending flop people are easily able to put a quick thing in there to put that in people's mind, I see where I live with the two ISP all day, and it is little things like that. Also to emphasise I did say if. If puts in potential that he said it like so it is. If not then he can be called pandering to the Cyberpunk crowd, or he could be herald as sticking to his guns/roots for the game and not bending, it is all how you look at it. With the vitrol towards bioware here it is an easy slant to play.

Whether it takes off or not is not a big deal to me. Knowing that CDPR is small enough to care about their craft, but big enough to have the resources to do it right is enough for me to have faith that it'll be done right. I loved Deus Ex: Human Revolution, but there was so much more that I wanted that they couldn't deliver for many reasons.

So all in all, this is promising and hopefully it has just enough influence that we can get at least two more games in a real Cyberpunk setting before the next console wave begins.

I would like to see it take off, since it brings out a genre that has been put on the backbumer for more trendy genres and PnP or games. If they do this it could bring a resurgance back into this and help peddle new ideas instead of re-makes sequels and reshashes. Also this could be the "make of break" for CDPR because this is thieir first original IP (not based of a novel) in many peoples eyes. With gamers being fickle to anything to if it does good we could see more for other companies not just one, or kickstaters.

[Druk-Qs]

Mesina2 wrote...

Cyberpunk style?

Already lost interest.

Didn't you rave about Deus Ex?

[inzesky]

android654 wrote...

inzesky wrote...

As someone who just recently finished reading Neuromancer and loving every gorgeously crafted sentence, plotline, character and theme in it, I am very much intrigued  in what CD project could deliver. Granted, I did not like The Witcher series but that stems mostly from issues I have with the source materiel itself.

I'm so glad they cited Gibson as an influence. I would love to have characters like Molly and Case in this game. The only thing they needed to make it perfect was to cite Jennifer Government as an influence as well. Then I would know I might be wrong and that there is some kind of a god somewhere, and it has awesome taste in books.

If CD Project can pull off a female character in the veins of Molly... I... well... that would seriously make my day. The videogame world needs more awesome female characters.  If they can also accommodate different play styles (stealth, speach, etc) which as far as I understand the pnp system allows, it will be glorious!

[android654]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

android654 wrote...
Not everything is a jab at Mass Effect. I still love the first two games a great deal, but prefer the second over the first despite the fact that the game was clearly designed to gain favor with the overwhelmingly large crowd of Star Wars and Star Trek fans. People like myself however have to dig real deep to find something that satisfies their tastes. Sometimes you get lucky and find a movie like Eden log or a band like Front Line Assembly, but a little service in the entertainment market would be appreciated.

I still enjoy the series for what it is. Still right now in perspective Bioware is the punching bag for companies now. Since the ending flop people are easily able to put a quick thing in there to put that in people's mind, I see where I live with the two ISP all day, and it is little things like that. Also to emphasise I did say if. If puts in potential that he said it like so it is. If not then he can be called pandering to the Cyberpunk crowd, or he could be herald as sticking to his guns/roots for the game and not bending, it is all how you look at it. With the vitrol towards bioware here it is an easy slant to play.

I wish Cyberpunks were pandered to. At least a little bit, since all the good stuff is almost 30 years old by now. Either way, CDPR has proven themselves to go against the grain on a lot of things. They've given people free DLCs, no DRM, free digital copies of both Witcher games. They've earned the label of a beloved developer for gamers.

I would like to see it take off, since it brings out a genre that has been put on the backbumer for more trendy genres and PnP or games. If they do this it could bring a resurgance back into this and help peddle new ideas instead of re-makes sequels and reshashes. Also this could be the "make of break" for CDPR because this is thieir first original IP (not based of a novel) in many peoples eyes. With gamers being fickle to anything to if it does good we could see more for other companies not just one, or kickstaters.

Good point, this will technically be CDPR's first baby. But they have the father of the original CYBERPUNK game helping them design the game. While they both stated their biggest influence is Bladerunner, a very generic answer even if I love the movie too, they cited William Gibson. Gibson's only really known by his fans and people who are fans of Cyberpunk. Without him there would be not Ghost in the Shell, no Matrix, no Deus Ex. He's literally responsible for creating the majority of the concepts we see in science and in fiction. Simple things like jacks behind people's ears and necks, downloading talents and skills, replacing body parts, adding in weaponized augmentations, connecting brains to the a neural net of other brains. I could go on. Simply put, CDPR has made me confident in the game with their little presentation, and they chose the right people to give them a hand in designing the world it's going to take place in.

Modifié par android654, 31 mai 2012 - 04:53 .

[DatIrishFella]

Marcin really know how to sell a game, they know their audience, they make games that mature gamers want, not 13 year old kids who need big fancy set pieces every 10 minutes.

Whatever game they release, it's day 1 for me, they're a breath of fresh air in a rotten industry.

Modifié par DatIrishFella, 31 mai 2012 - 04:25 .

[Mylia Stenetch]

android654 wrote...
I wish Cyberpunks were pandered to. At least a little bit, since all the good stuff is almost 30 years old by now. Either way, CDPR has proven themselves to go against the grain on a lot of things. They've given people free DLCs, no DRM, free digital copies of both Witcher games. They've earned the label of a beloved developer for gamers.

I do too, I wish there was more love to PnP people in the world. I am waiting right now to see how Neverwinter comes, my hopes are doubtful at best even though Mr. Salvator is working on it.

Good point, this will technically be CDPR's first baby. But they have the father of the original CYBERPUNK game helping them design the game. While they both stated their biggest influence is Bladerunner, a very generic answer even if I love the movie too, they cited William Gibson. Gibson's only really known by his fans and people who are fans of Cyberpunk. Without him there would be not Ghost in the Shell, no Matrix, no Deus Ex. He's literally responsible for creating the majority of the concepts we see in science and in fiction. Simple things like jacks behind people's ears and necks, downloading talents and skills, replacing body parts, adding in weaponized augmentations, connecting brains to the a neural net of other brains. I could go on. Simply put, CDPR has made me confident in the game with their little presentation, and they chose the right people to give them a hand in designing the world it's going to take place in.

It is indeed helpful to have the godfather of Cyberpunk with them. I have started playing the Witcher and really enjoied it so far. I know my friends would love it too. The cyberpunk sold me since I really do enjoy cyberpunk, I think it is much better than the ever popular (I know in my area) Steampunk. The proplem will be still aside from people who look into it, know about the company or anything else is penetrating the AAA market on how it is right now. Once you make it AAA you are in a saturated area full of everything I said in the last post. I have confiedence in the people that they can do a great game. I just do not want it to become a cult style game.

I wish Cyberpunks were pandered to. At least a little bit, since all the good stuff is almost 30 years old by now. Either way, CDPR has proven themselves to go against the grain on a lot of things. They've given people free DLCs, no DRM, free digital copies of both Witcher games. They've earned the label of a beloved developer for gamers.

This is one of the reasons I do enjoy the company I hate DRM, the DLC is nothing to much for me, but I much prefer to play games I intall my way without using a disc in my drive or constant intrenet connection. Hopefully this can help sway away from what we are seeing now.

Modifié par Mylia Stenetch, 31 mai 2012 - 04:34 .

[Druss99]

I'll take a wait and see stance with this. Provisionally interested but I've been let down before.

[android654]

Mylia Stenetch wrote...

It is indeed helpful to have the godfather of Cyberpunk with them. I have started playing the Witcher and really enjoied it so far. I know my friends would love it too. The cyberpunk sold me since I really do enjoy cyberpunk, I think it is much better than the ever popular (I know in my area) Steampunk. The proplem will be still aside from people who look into it, know about the company or anything else is penetrating the AAA market on how it is right now. Once you make it AAA you are in a saturated area full of everything I said in the last post. I have confiedence in the people that they can do a great game. I just do not want it to become a cult style game.

This defintiely wont be as popular as a COD or a Gears of War game at first glance. It will however be very unique when placed next to it's competition. There's also the fact that CDPR has built up a reputation of being different for all the right reasons, so once there are big reveals it will definitely get some much needed noteriety.

Now that we know for a fact that it's going to be a Cyberpunk game with influences form CYBERPUNk 2020 and Gibson's novels, what are hoping is going to be in the final game once it's released?

[Damariel]

It's funny that everyone already know it will be a shooter... <_<